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Zunaid
June 3, 2004, 10:53 AM
Will everyone stop sniping back and forth? I am getting very irritated - and you won't like me when I am irritated - and don't even get me angry.

Stop this now. NOW.

It doesn't matter who or on what topic .

Some of the back and forth has been purely spiteful, the sole purpose being to goad the others into responding in kind - and the result? The whole thing escalates, and the board goes to hell.

Zunaid, as moderator.

Piranha
June 3, 2004, 12:00 PM
Excellent idea Zunaid Bhai. Seriously, let us all take a breather for today; and relax our nerves. Test matches can be tough on the nerves for fans and cricketers alike.

billah
June 3, 2004, 01:49 PM
Better yet Z, just ban everyone. You are a Super Moderator, after all. Save the board.

Zobair
June 3, 2004, 02:01 PM
Billah! I thin you are taking Dr. Z's comments the wrong way. We all just need to take it easy. We come here to discuss cricket, Bangladesh cricket. Most of us have been long enough on this board to know how we go about doing things here. 'sniping' and 'baiting' really doesn't do anyone any good, and makes it uncomfortable for everyone concerned! So why do it? End of story.

If you have any problems with a member or their post, report to a moderator, thats what we are here for instead to taking matters into your own hands.

PS; When it all gets all intense and heated just remeber guys! this is cricket, a game, not a war, not life and death, we are just fans following a game. :)

[Moderator]

Zunaid
June 3, 2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by billah
Better yet Z, just ban everyone. You are a Super Moderator, after all. Save the board.

You forgot the sarcasm green

Don't hold back now, y'hear.

What's the point of a whole bunch of "yo momma" posts? I am not against needling and rib-poking, but when they border on spite and malice, they serve no useful purpose.

This is not a difficult concept to grasp.

As myself.

billah
June 3, 2004, 02:23 PM
Anything is difficult for simple-minded, simplistic simpltons like me. For one, I can't even find much of "Spite an Malice" to warrant such a stern warning (Sarcasm green wilfully omitted, please imagine a smiley here if you so wish)

chinaman
June 3, 2004, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by billah
Better yet Z, just ban everyone. You are a Super Moderator, after all. Save the board. To be honest, I do not find find this amusing. And did not even expect from a respectable member in the first place.

Here a moderator tries to instill some discipline and instead of supporting, you guys are trying to make a mockery out of it. Unbelievable.

rafiq
June 3, 2004, 03:36 PM
You guys are extremely entertaining. :) Can moderators control the free-spirited and opiniated masses? A tug of war of epic proportions. (insert green sarcasm here, i don't know how to do it). At its root is our need for balance, respect for elders, authority, and so on. These values are hard to enforce when you have members from all over the world who are not going to behave in the same manner.

I think it is good that there are posting guidelines that say "don't use offensive language", "don't make personal attacks", etc. But do we all need to hammer the same point, one after the other? Sometimes, "taking a break" is exactly that - don't post about the same thing over and over again.

There, I've added to this thread and I shouldn't have. Time to forget cricket and petty squabbles and read something that has nothing to do with this topic. Here is a link to a story that will cheer you all up, written by Nitu who works with Drishtipat in DC:

under a different sky: a dawat rendevouz in mikasa vase-filled suburbia (http://www.thedailystar.net/lifestyle/2004/06/01/page03.htm)

[Edited on 3-6-2004 by rafiq]

chinaman
June 3, 2004, 04:19 PM
Entertaining or not, it's not about balance, respect or authority, it's all about team work and helping each other to maintain a pleasant message board that we all love to come to. The forum is nothing without member's paricipation and it would go to dogs without some discipline. As moderators we take time even from watching & following games to keep an eye on other proceedings of the forum. We routinely face issues from inumerable corners, yet try hard to do our jobs right so that all of us can have some good times here.

From time to time we issue targeted warnings, reminders etc purposfully to keep things pleasant and we literally look towards your face to help us in any way you can. Of course we recognize and respect differences of opinions. But it is really mindless when members, senior, or otherwise, make cheap and hearltless comments towards those notices, rendering the intention and purpose completely innefctive if not dead. At times when we try heart and soul to put a lid on certain situation, those comments, aparently to get some cheap fun, not only drag it on and on but also complicate things beyond repair.

It's not about respect or authority. It's all about help. If you can't help us, please, atleast don't hurt the cause.

[Edited on 6-3-2004 by chinaman]

rsanumber1
June 3, 2004, 05:15 PM
once upon a time... zunaid wrote...

>>Will everyone stop sniping back and forth? I am getting very irritated - and you won't like me when I am irritated - and don't even get me angry.
>>Stop this now. NOW.

is that the 'right' way for any moderator to put their point across... via an implied threat?

i've only started posting here... but i've been reading your forums for quite some time now... some of the behaviour are not 'good'... and they should be stopped...

however... the behaviour of staff and moderators should be beyond reproach... and overall... i don't see that the behaviour amongst staff and moderators are 'significantly' different...

furthermore... being a regular in #banglacricket amongst other cricket channels on irc for more than a little while... i see certain staff behaving badly in those channels... i would like to think that any 'chat' on #banglacricket should follow similar guidelines of good behaviour... i shall just highlight one of many examples with the following...

oracle : Middle_Fingers_Up
Zunaid : Middle_Fingers_Up

am i being too sensitive or is this type of behaviour unacceptable?

i am a female cricket fan and i did find this behaviour extremely offensive... it ruined an otherwise enjoyable evening of seeing bangladesh securing a very significant result in their short test cricketing history...

food for thought... replies are most welcome...

and yes zunaid... i am waiting for an apology... just because you are a super moderator... it doesn't immune you from bad behaviour... nor does it immune you from apologising and being punished when you are out of line...

amy benson

Zunaid
June 3, 2004, 05:21 PM
absolutely, amy
you have my uncoditional apologies, as do any members who may have been offended.

no, no staff or moderator is immune from bad behaviour

i too should be chastised (and punished) when i do cross the line and often in the "heat of the game" we often do.

and i do encourage everyone to point out any failings of moderators (super or not)

as for my attention post - yes, it was strongly worded and perhaps an insertion of a implied smiley (people may have forgotten the reference to the Hulk) and a please would have helped made things better.

[Edited on 3-6-2004 by Zunaid]

Navarene
June 3, 2004, 05:35 PM
Thank you for the unconditional apology, Zunaid bhai. This way you earned more respect from those who found your attention thread a bit more like a daddy rebuking and scolding his wayward naughty kids:)

Zunaid
June 3, 2004, 05:43 PM
...but some of you ARE very dushtu.

I should have put it more politely - no excuses.

billah
June 3, 2004, 05:50 PM
To Zunaid, Chinaman, Pompous:

In my first post of this thread, I had expressed a knee-jerk reaction. I didn't intend for my comments to be "Heartless", sorry if I offended anyone. I don't think it was "mindless" though, I am confident my concern was legitimate. It was not for "cheap fun" either. A public action received a public reaction, all in the open. I expressed my uninhibited feelings in my own way to make a point. I feel sincere gratitude to you for the great service you provide to the board. This is an amazing place to be, mostly due to the sincere efforts of people like you.

Rafiq bhai: Thanks for the link. Sordid & true to our culture in many ways.

Ms. Benson, Western Union says they need a full mailing address to send the money....Here I go again... :lol:

All in good spirit gentlemen, lady. Once more, apologies for stirring things up.

Nasif
June 3, 2004, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by rsanumber1

oracle : Middle_Fingers_Up
Zunaid : Middle_Fingers_Up


Hello Amy:
I will just comment on the #banglacricket issue. Initially when I designed the #banglacricket interface (almost an year ago) for the java chat I have included some "fun" stuff with emoticons. This fun stuff isn't viewable or recognizable if you are using the text only IRC client. The one that you are referrring to is an emoticon that was meant to be used when other team batsman gets out. It was supposed to be out sign as a joke.

Now as I see it, it was not wise on my part to include that as a joke. I will remove it. I personally apologize to you and other who got offended by this. I am truely sorry.

Nasif
Moderator

PS: If you visit our Java chat interface you may get the idea of what I was talking about. http://games.banglacricket.com/chat

Orpheus
June 4, 2004, 07:30 AM
what's so offensive about it?

I think this icon : :P is also offensive.... too sexual! remove em

[Edited on 4-6-2004 by Orpheus : green highlight]

oracle
June 4, 2004, 08:25 AM
To rsanumber 1

Re:the middle finger up issue

Yes, I had "inadvertently" used that emoticon in the chat room. However, I would like you to know that I was totally, and I mean totally unaware, that it was the middle finger sign. The symbol was a bit deceiving and I certainly would,nt have used it had i known the meaning.

As such, I will review this matter with Nasif, so that it does'nt happen again.

Again, if you were offended please accept my apologies and I would appreciate if you would accept my explanationas it was truly done unawares and each of us are prone to mistakes.

[Edited on 4-6-2004 by oracle]

BushidoTiger
June 4, 2004, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by oracle
To rsanumber 1

Re:the middle finger up issue

Yes, I had "inadvertently" used that emoticon in the chat room. However, I would like you to know that I was totally, and I mean totally unaware, that it was the middle finger sign. The symbol was a bit deceiving and I certainly would,nt have used it had i known the meaning.

As such, I will review this matter with Nasif, so that it does'nt happen again.

Again, if you were offended please accept my apologies and I would appreciate if you would accept my explanationas it was truly done unawares and each of us are prone to mistakes.

[Edited on 4-6-2004 by oracle]


- As I was reading this thread I couldn't believe both Oracle and Nasif's reaction to Amy. Why don't you just roll over and die (jk).

No offense, you guys are both acting like two eight year olds busted with hands in the cookie jar..Here comes mommy's wrath.

This is a forum albeit free for all..but to keep this in some sort of order, you need people who can make sure the 'bylaws' are followed and no offensive materials are posted etc...

But, having and icon with 'middle finger' in chat room offensive to Amy..?

C'mon Amy, pls. do tell me you live in some sort of antiseptic world, where only 'wizards of Oz' or 'Sound of Music' are shown 24/7 on TV.

Its a chatroom, unlike a podium of literary discussion, people are there to chat..discuss, express their feelings/emotions.

Like in real life these feelings are raw. Do they need to have censor here ? Yes. But to ensure, just like in real life, you don't make stereotypes, insult people's ethnicity etc.

At the same time one doesn't need to walk on eggshells in the chat room so that they wouldn't offend someone like 'Amy' with a 'better-than-though' mentality.

Amy, you may pretend to live in picturesque Norman Rockwell world, rest of us live in real world. And in real world, guys AND girls (adult and adolescents) use terms related to raising the middle finger, giving the birdie to express/emphasize speech in real life.

I've never been to the BC chatroom, but as member if I'm there, I'd like to have the avenue to use the mid finger icon to express exactly how I feel.

I don't mean to be patronizing, but the puritan attitude of some people who're always ready to admonish others and kowtowing in reciprocation to make things politically correct, are out of control.

IMHO, there should be a balance. Those of us adults who want to use to chatroom w/ the liberty (note the usage of power words) and freedom, should be able to do so.

If anything pls. put a warning that the contents may/can be construed as offensive. "Enter at your own risk".

I consider myself a gentleman and know how to respect a lady. But, I'm yet to see female who is ladylike to live in some self delusional world.

And if someone still tries to bring out the overused 'harrassment' issue and accuse me or the chatroom moderators as being
misogynists, I say: "Bite me".


[Edited on 6/4/2004 by BushidoTiger]

oracle
June 4, 2004, 09:40 AM
Bushido

Your responses are noted. Please just ponder for a few seconds on this thought.:

We have people here who are possibly 10 , 11 and 15 years old. Of course, we cannot verify this. This site is G rated and will remain so. In order to maintain this rating you will see extra vigil and extra sensitivity. As such, it may be amusing from an adult`s persepective to see such reactions as unnecessary, but in light of this G rating we do our utmost to maintain the site.

Nasif
June 4, 2004, 11:55 AM
BushidoTiger thanks for you comments and thoughts on this issue.

I agree with Oracle here. We have to maitain a G rating. I have already modified the chatroom and that icon in question is gone.

BushidoTiger
June 4, 2004, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by nasif
BushidoTiger thanks for you comments and thoughts on this issue.

I agree with Oracle here. We have to maitain a G rating. I have already modified the chatroom and that icon in question is gone.


Thank you gentlemen for your input. Your justification for keeping in G rated is a logical one iff there are teen(<18) and preteens visiting in the chat room.

Maybe you can have a seperate section for those pimple faced fans. Easier for me say, I know.

Then again what are these kids doing here with the bura/semi-bura chachus?
They should be doing their homeworks or memorizing some number tables :)

When I was their age back in Chatgaon, we had to walk to school for miles, uphill BOTH ways, with no shoes, no shirt, blistered feet, in the snow, books on hand, in empty stomachs to a oneroom school house with no roof, no bathroom etc.
Oh I almost forgot, all that had to be accomplished while dodging incoming bullets/bricks from Burmese Army/neighborhood (paras) bullies.:bald:

[Edited on 6/4/2004 by BushidoTiger]

chinaman
June 4, 2004, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by BushidoTiger
Maybe you can have a seperate section for those pimple faced fans. What? Seperate section? Right wing conspiracy or what? Man, you want me to lose my job? Already paying orphy and arnab two laks each every month to keep my shaky job. Forget about teacher or chachchu, I don't wanna play even the born-early-twin-big-brother here :lol:

[Edited on 6-4-2004 by chinaman]

Ahmed_B
June 4, 2004, 02:29 PM
Just expressing my opinions as an member/observer:

Your points are understandable..

And its sure there are ways to put 'matured' materials with nice sense of humor and responsible members like you and many others will do so as well..

but when it comes to bulk of members increasing day by day and also some 'not so polite' non-BD members as well ... I think its really necessary for the Moderators to keep things in discipline in some way..
Otherwise this site might just become a waste of time to visit!

[Edited on 4-6-2004 by crickethorizon]

rsanumber1
June 11, 2004, 10:22 PM
upon browsing the banglacricket forums... i have stumbled onto bushidotiger's reply to my original post under this topic...

let me say how disappointed i am to see such a display of rudeness by a fellow poster... nobody enjoys being personally attacked at anytime by anybody... there is no room for personal attacks in ANY forum...

furthermore... it appears as though this sort of behaviour not only goes unpunished... but is almost being encouraged... i see that there are a few moderators in this forum... which is good for the sharing of workload... oracle and nasif both replied to bushidotiger's post... even 'thanking' the comments that were given...

should comments on that particular post be thanked or be reprimanded?

given that zunaid started this topic with...

"Will everyone stop sniping back and forth? I am getting very irritated - and you won't like me when I am irritated - and don't even get me angry. Stop this
now. NOW. It doesn't matter who or on what topic ."

and signing off with "zunaid, as moderator"...

i was wondering as to why zunaid... "as moderator"... hadn't taken action against the post by bushidotiger... where have you been zunaid?

if zunaid and all other moderators think that there was nothing wrong with the genuine rudeness of the post by bushidotiger... then this forum is likely to see a lot more of that type of rudeness from their present and future members since they would think that the behaviour displayed was 'completely acceptable'

and given that zunaid also said...

"Some of the back and forth has been purely spiteful, the sole purpose being to goad the others into responding in kind - and the result? The whole thing escalates, and the board goes to hell."...

wasn't bushidotiger doing exactly that? and if so... isn't this board as zunaid put it... eventually will go to the place where it shouldn't be?

i submit that the behaviour of bushidotiger via his post to this topic "on 5-6-2004 at 00:32" local time was unacceptable... i submit that this particular post should be taken off the board... i further sumbit and bushidotiger should be punished and/or reprimanded publically for his irresponsible behaviour...

the behaviour of administrators... moderators... and article contributors should be beyond reproach... otherwise it takes away the credibity of the establishment...

food for thought...

have a great weekend

Arnab
June 11, 2004, 11:02 PM
BushidoTiger's response was mostly, if not entirely, rational and grounded on reality, and I would have said the same thing. It was not "rude" by any definition. Offensive? Literally, yes. Bushido was on the offense because that's how these things should be dealt with.

Emoticons, i.e., EMOTional ICONs, are there so that people can express their feelings like they do in real life.

And about the G rating, it's worthless. If you think the kids who visit this site don't already know or will never know the stuffs that are regularly censored here, you are sorely mistaken. And sometimes the censorship goes to a ridiculous extreme. For example, Chinaman (this is not a personal attack against him, but a random example) deleted the word "coward" yesterday. In my opinion, such ridiculousness is a systemic byproduct of censorship.

chinaman
June 11, 2004, 11:26 PM
Dear rsanumber1

Look, we are neither parents, nor teachers, not even counselors here. To bring forth poster's behavioral modification is beyond us. We let people express their opinion here freely and decently. As you noticed, this is never going to be a smooth ride, but we try hard.

Your earlier complains were duly addressed and do not warrant any repetition.

I respectfully disagree with your current complains of "rudeness" and "personal attack" by bushidotiger. He could have chose to adopt a nicer tone but his said post, IMHO, nonetheless, can not be labeled as "personal attack". He has the right to voice his opinion which may not confirm to you or my views. And his opinion was rightfully acknowledged and thanked for.

As moderators, we must not be overtly sensitive or insensitive. As volunteers, we try hard to maintain this site as decent as humanly possible without being rude or abusive. This thread is a good example of this.

"the behavior of administrators... moderators... and article contributors should be beyond reproach" - yes, they are not above the rules. Thank you very much for strengthening our views here.

A garden of only red roses lose it's attraction easily while the same with different flowers live on. Differences of opinion make up the life line of any discussion forum. I truly hope you will continue to enjoy the decent mix-bag that we offer here in this forum.

On a side note to arnab, yes the word coward itself might not be offensive but when someone says "you are coward" it immediately becomes offensive in my book.

Arnab
June 12, 2004, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by chinaman
On a side note to arnab, yes the word coward itself might not be offensive but when someone says "you are coward" it immediately becomes offensive in my book.

Several things to mention here. Yes, it immediately becomes offensive "in your book", but there are different norms for different atmospheres. This is not a courtroom, nor this is a corporate boardroom. Even if it were, I seriously doubt "You are a coward" would have been considered offensive. If the adjective "coward" itself is non-offensive, then its application on a person should also be deemed non-offensive. That's logical and coherent. So, the keywords here are "in your book". Like I have always said, these things are almost always subject to the moderator's personal discretion, and there is no gurantee that a moderator's personal discretion is grounded on reality. It could very well depend on his personal value system.

Today it's "coward", tomorrow what? Who writes chinaman's "book"? Why should I care what "book" chinaman goes by if it sometimes (albeit, not most of the times) produce such ridiculous, illogical results? In the "coward" example, there is no accountability, and there is no logical explanation grounded on real-life experience behind the moderator's action. And that, in my opinion, is systemic and needs serious consideration.

[Edited on 12-6-2004 by Arnab]

chinaman
June 12, 2004, 02:44 AM
People has differing tolerance level. Some wouldn't mind being called coward while many would. We try to walk a fine line of balance here without recognizing individual's acceptance levels seperately.

"Like I have always said, these things are almost always subject to the moderator's personal discretion, and there is no gurantee that a moderator's personal discretion is grounded on reality. It could very well depend on his personal value system."

Correct. Pilot's century in one innings does not gurantee a sigle run in the next innings. One can only put faith on his ability.

"Why should I care what "book" chinaman goes by if it sometimes (albeit, not most of the times) produce such ridiculous, illogical results?"

Nobody needs to take notice of my book. I can not gurantee that my actions will always be error free. All I can do is to give my best shot in a case by case basis.

"In the "coward" example, there is no accountability, and there is no logical explanation grounded on real-life experience behind the moderator's action."

Tehsin and Rajputro can fire me at will and you guys are free to make the call. I do have (many of you have it too I believe) real life experience of tragic ramifications steming from calling names.