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Mon
August 9, 2004, 02:17 PM
I think they are the same as the Paki selection team who don't value tallented players but go with gutt instincts. I don't like the fact that they left out Alok Kapali from the ICC champinship team.
What say you? please add your opinions



[Edited on 10-8-2004 by Mon]

Nasif
August 9, 2004, 02:22 PM
Mon:
For all practical purposes, Kapali got more than enough chances to prove his cause. There is no doubt he has talent, but his form is no where to be found. Kapali needs time to sort out his problems and get his form back.

Selectors are doing excellent job. These 3 are the best selectors for BD cricket ever. I can't remember a selection board better than these 3 (4 with Whatmore). They are consistent in their approach and very logical. There is no paglami involved.

So be happy, if Kapali is really talented, he will get his form back and come in the squad sooner than later. :)

Zobair
August 9, 2004, 02:26 PM
Calm down! take it easy! The selection team has done pretty well in my opinion, and you will find, in the the opinion of most people on this board. Tell me, what had Kapali done in the last 3-4 series to deserve being in the team? Talent is an over-rated word. Consistency and performance under pressure is what we should look for when selecting players.

Mon
August 9, 2004, 02:29 PM
well my main concern is to see our team succeed. How can they left out Alok Kapali? Just because he was not doing well in one single series does not mean that he is a bad player. the thing that worries me is that our team is becoming more and more like the paki team. In Pakistan, they just put all the new players in the team, though some of them are indeed tallented, they need time to grow. We are doing the same.
we cannot really compromise with players such a Alok Kapali. He is an asset to both batting and bowling. He is the only all around allrounder in the team. We could do a lot better with him in the team. I think they should only include on of the new players in the team. (either Iqbal or Aftab).
They way the selection team is behaving, i would not be surprised if they leave out Bashar or Saleh from the team in the near future. Do u guys remember how they behaved with Nannu, Saiful islam(he was very good bowler).

Please add more of ur opinions . THanks. :)

Nasif
August 9, 2004, 02:56 PM
This is his 2003/04 season scores. Now tell me if he had enough chances or not!
<font face=courier>
&nbsp;0 5 lbw 1 L 1st ODI v Eng in BD 2003/04
&nbsp;2 5 caught wk 1 L 2nd ODI v Eng in BD 2003/04
&nbsp;2 6 bowled 1 L 3rd ODI v Eng in BD 2003/04
&nbsp;9 1 caught wk 1 W 3rd ODI v Zim in Zim 2003/04
18 2 lbw 2 L 4th ODI v Zim in Zim 2003/04
&nbsp;8 5 caught wk 1 L 5th ODI v Zim in Zim 2003/04
&nbsp;5 6 caught 1 L 1st ODI v WI in WI 2004
&nbsp;1 5 caught wk 2 L 2nd ODI v WI in WI 2004
&nbsp;2 5 lbw 1 W Asia Cup 1 v HK in SL 2004
28 5 caught 2 L Asia Cup 3 v Pak in SL 2004
10 4 caught wk 1 L Asia Cup 7 v Ind in SL 2004
&nbsp;1 4 run out 1 L Asia Cup 9 v SL in SL 2004
&nbsp;3 4 caught 1 L Asia Cup 12 v Pak in SL 2004
</font>

He only reached double figures 3 times out of 13.

Mon
August 9, 2004, 03:59 PM
yo Bai:
Thanks for the stats. I am very familiar with it. I did not miss even a single Bd match for the past few years. Kapali's performance was consistence with the team's. Did u look at other players' perfomance stats? how many match did we win? we are still in the phase of building a team with tallented and mature players whom we can rely on. Do u agree with the selector's past decision to make Naimur the captain of the BD team? i saw him play live, he truly is pathetic. Anyway, We should give senior players more time as well as SOME new players. We should not put a lot of emphasis on new players as we have seen for other countires. The lesson should be learned. Look at Zaheer of India, They still did not drop him. I wanna see manture players in our team. Alok Kapalis playing reminds me of Athar ali khan, Nannu, Lipu and other great BD players. I think we can rely on him at the time of our need. Look at his Performance when BD toured Pakistan. He saved us lots of times. I know that he is doing bad lately but he will come back to form soon.
My worry is that once they drop a player in BD team they don't get him back that easily. Look what happend to Bulbul. I don't want kapali to suffer the same fate. He truly is a valuable player. i watched him from his debut match. He is very patient like Bashar and Saleh. He hardly makes stupid mistakes. on the other hand, Do u Remember ROKON. (how moronic the selectors had to be to pick ROKON) lol.

We should get Kapali back.
:heart: :fanflag:

Nasif
August 9, 2004, 04:25 PM
I don't hink Kapali will be like Bulbul. The reason Bulbul coudn't get back into team was because he couldn't perform in local league after being dropped. Kapali can get into the team if he gets his form back. I think the selectors are just being fair.

fwullah
August 10, 2004, 12:11 AM
I agree with the fact that Kapali being dropped by the current selectors is a fair decision.

But since the question of selectors are being raised, I want to come ahead with something else, though it is not perfectly relevant for this particular thread, but I think it does relate to the selectors a little bit.

The impression is that Aftab, Nafis, and Nazmul are doing pretty well in England. So that is one reason for the selectors to give them a chance. It is true that they are not brought into the national side only for their performance in this England tour. However, I find their performance in England to be quite average.

Aftab has an average of only 30.00, Nafis has an average of 22.00 and Nazmul Hossain has just got 1 wicket (besides being the worst bowler among all the Bangladeshi bowlers) from 1 test match against England Under-19 team.
Reference: BD U-19 vs ENG U-19 (http://aus.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/2004/OTHERS/BDESH-U19_IN_ENG/BDESH-U19_IN_ENG_JUL-AUG2004_AVS.html)

So, exactly how did these new trio get the selectors' nod? Was it only because they performed commandably against some weaker teams in practice matches?

To be honest, I have not been following Bangladesh U-19's games that close. But since these 3 players are now called upon to play for the national team, so I just went to the above site and looked at their individual performances.

The fact that Cricinfo doesn't feel it necessary to post the practice match stats of the BD U-19 players, so it pushes down the importance of our players' performances in those UNIMPORTANT practice matches.

What do you say about that?

I am pretty certain that once given a chance, Nafees, Aftab and Nazmul will prove me wrong and do something fantastic like Ashraful did. Before or unless that happens, I will raise my concerns about getting better or just as average players (like the national team players).

Rubu
August 10, 2004, 12:20 AM
mon, did u agree that silectors did not ignore a good performer in domestic league or junior team? faisal came to the team that way. so did rajjak. nafis, aftab, rana ......... this list will go on and on. selectors have a very keep eye for anyone who is performing, anywhere. if alok peforms he'll come back. if he can't perform, i don't give a damn about how talented he is. i don't wanna see any nonperformer within 100 miles of the nation team. alok has already created the record of staying in the team with the longest non-performance. let him give all the support and facilities he need to get his form back. if he can, i'll cordialy welcome him, if he can't i'll gladly let him rot like a street rat.

Rubu
August 10, 2004, 12:26 AM
fw, i understand your concern and logic. but, i think the process selectors went thru is discarding. they kept throughing out the ones thats not usable at the moment and ended up with the last 3 in the basket. at least this is what i think. they just went for this 3 because they did not have any other choices. can u think of anyone who would be a better choice than these?

Zobair
August 10, 2004, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by AgentSmith
if he can, i'll cordialy welcome him, if he can't i'll gladly let him rot like a street rat.


Dude that is really harsh! come on! I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. He is just a cricketer trying to make a living. Surely there are more terrible persons out there deserving of such a crule fate.

oracle
August 10, 2004, 12:29 AM
One of the main developmental reasons for bringing in Aftab, Nafis and Nazmul is to create a larger pool of players with tour experience. wiitness Razak in caribean. As such, it is not entirely a few good matches that decides but a way to provide just that few more options to the selectors.

I don't think the selectors are doing a poor job. It is the plain fact that they are somewhat tied behind their backs because of inherent structural reasons: no proper domestic set up and a non existant A team.

And by the way, Kapali will be back soon. Faruque shares the same opinion on this guy as Dave so I don't see him in the benches for long. He is just getting a break.

rassel
August 10, 2004, 12:32 AM
wow! agent mia it's time. you know what i am talking about.:wow:

Zobair
August 10, 2004, 12:41 AM
Kapali needs some time off. He needs to train with the High Perfromance Unit, play in the domestic league and score as heavily as he ca, and then get back. My prediction is he will be back within 6 months MAX and he will be back with a bang. He is paart of our future. Hopefully he won't disappoint.

Rubu
August 10, 2004, 12:41 AM
yes, pompus i know its harsh!
yes, rassel i know what u are talking about. but.......

i know what will come when i wrote it, and i'll not move from it. it really pisses me off when kapali's praising and bad form goes hand by hand. he get praised and supported like rahul dravid and keep playing like solimuddi/kolimuddi.

performance, and only perforamnce should be the factor in playing for the national team.

Zobair
August 10, 2004, 12:52 AM
well! the more time I have spent of message boards the more I have become convinced that current national cricketers/hopefuls should never visit message boards. Former players and current administrators will benefit from some of the fan inputs. But current players should stay away, as the potential for harm is greater than the possible benefits. I say this because, we as fans tend to get emotional and sometimes pull no punches when disappointed. Our reactions may discourage players who are already down due to their performance. Some of us fans are little more than arm-chair critics (at least I speak for myself) and our 'technical advice' may confuse players more than help them.

Having said that we do come up with useful suggestions about how to improve our cricket, and administrators will do well to sometimes come and listen in.


[Edited on 10-8-2004 by pompous]

mahbubH
August 10, 2004, 01:12 AM
I cannot remember the selectors who did better job than this group. Kapali would have been dropped earlier if we have the old selectors who changed players more frequently than current group.

Some comments about Faruque is too much. It is well known around BD cricket that Faruque has a good cricket brain and he is popular among cricketers.

Yes I agree Durjoy should not be captain in the first test, Bulbul should continue at that time.


[Edited on 10-8-2004 by sports_fan_bd]

rafiq
August 10, 2004, 01:16 AM
Pompous, you got me thinking. Do fans here seriously think that professional players are going to come to fan sites for advice on how to fix their game? If I am a relatively big star like Habibul Bashar or Alok Kapali, am I going to worry about what people write in the press or on websites because my current form is down? No way! Do you think Shoib or Murali check in with fans before a big match to figure out what they need to do that day?

Or at least that's how most professionals would approach it, our players may be a bit more fragile...

[Edited on 10-8-2004 by rafiq]

Zobair
August 10, 2004, 01:30 AM
well let us hope they are not THAT fragile as to try and seek solace and help in message boards. That would be a disaster. May be we should have warning posted on the main page for the forum. Something like:

"National cricketers enter at your own risk" :D


Originally posted by rafiq
Pompous, you got me thinking. Do fans here seriously think that professional players are going to come to fan sites for advice on how to fix their game? If I am a relatively big star like Habibul Bashar or Alok Kapali, am I going to worry about what people write in the press or on websites because my current form is down? No way! Do you think Shoib or Murali check in with fans before a big match to figure out what they need to do that day?

Or at least that's how most professionals would approach it, our players may be a bit more fragile...

[Edited on 10-8-2004 by rafiq]


PS: rafiq bhai! what is a family man like you doing up to so late? Its 2:30 am on the east coast! :P

[Edited on 10-8-2004 by pompous]

fwullah
August 10, 2004, 01:34 AM
Yes I agree Durjoy should not be captain in the first test, Bulbul should continue at that time.


It was only politics (at that time). You see, Bulbul was turning out to be a strong leader, not just the captain of a cricket team (national cricket team), he was becoming, or had already become a strong leader in everything the players at the time who were playing cricket. It was sort of a 'movement' led by Bulbul. Besides being the most successful well-known captain after beating Scotland and Pakistan in the world cup, he could manage to get every player under his control (control - not meant in a bad way), whether his senior or junior. And that got the Board scared.

I am sure if it was not it, only poor performances with the bat would not have dropped Bulbul from his captancy, not after those famous world cup wins.

And the best thing at the time the Board could do, was to select somebody who was just not good enough to get that kind of team spirit going. I know that Durjoy is not a bad person (AT ALL), its just that he couldn't get everybody under one tree - like Akram/Bulbul had done earlier.

Nasif
August 10, 2004, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by pompous
well let us hope they are not THAT fragile as to try and seek solace and help in message boards. That would be a disaster. May be we should have warning posted on the main page for the forum. Something like:


Well, some them do visit. Hopefully they can take it with good spirit :)

sageX
August 10, 2004, 01:57 AM
Kapali will come back. He is young. he has time.

[Edited on 10-8-2004 by sageX]

AsifTheManRahman
August 10, 2004, 02:46 AM
Sheesh...calm down Mon!

Reading your posts, I feel as if bringing back Kapali would win us matches!

No man, he had is chances and he failed. He needs to get back to domestic cricket, fix his problems and then come back.

Nobody doubts his talent, but that has to be backed by performance.

Look at Ashraful...he went through a bad patch, got kicked out of the first eleven a couple of times, and now look how he's performing. He got his chance and made good use of it.

Kapali deserves to be out of the team. I think that this bunch of selectors has made very few mistakes.

About Rajin Slaeh and Habibul Bashar, well they will have to be dropped if the team doesn't need them anymore.

PoorFan
August 10, 2004, 05:37 AM
Bashar could be dropped from ODI very soon. Depends on his next tour performance.
It could be a matter of time. No surprise for me.

DotBall
August 10, 2004, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by Mon
yo Bai:
Thanks for the stats. I am very familiar with it. I did not miss even a single Bd match for the past few years. Kapali's performance was consistence with the team's. Did u look at other players' perfomance stats? how many match did we win? we are still in the phase of building a team with tallented and mature players whom we can rely on. Do u agree with the selector's past decision to make Naimur the captain of the BD team? i saw him play live, he truly is pathetic. Anyway, We should give senior players more time as well as SOME new players. We should not put a lot of emphasis on new players as we have seen for other countires. The lesson should be learned. Look at Zaheer of India, They still did not drop him...........

We should get Kapali back.
:heart: :fanflag:
:exclamation: :info:
Dropping Kapali is the best the selectors did for Kapali's future. His performance is no where near it should be as his talent suggests. He needs some time off and get the pressure off of his back to meet evey fans expectation. I think the fans has hyped up Kapali's potential more than it is. In a hurry we made him something he wasn't with out of the world praises and articles. I hope he can gather his performance fast and come back to the squad. We can believe in somebody and give them chances, but 13 games of below average performance is just too expensive....

Mon
August 10, 2004, 12:13 PM
Text
I want the same as you: the best team for our country. Lets hope we donít become like the Pakistan team. Itís is really a serious issue in my opinion. Itís nice to give young promising players a chance but I just hope (sorry for being reiterating) that we donít a team comprise with ALL new players. If that happens, then our fate will be like the Pakis.

By the way, we need a cricket stadium :soonÖ
:karate:

chinaman
August 10, 2004, 12:20 PM
Dear Mon

Since you edited your post, you may remove my comments. Thank you.

rassel
August 10, 2004, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by Mon
Text


By the way, we need a cricket stadium :soonÖ
:karate:



:-/

sunniath
August 10, 2004, 05:35 PM
It has been a very intruiging conversation. I am personally satisfied with the selectors so far. But I was hoping that Biddut would get a recall after recovering from his injury.

[Edited on 11-8-2004 by sunniath]

coolheels
August 10, 2004, 08:41 PM
Talent if not alloyed with discipline and temperament is no good at the international level. Alok Kapali after his initial success seems to be resting on his laurels instead of building on his good beginning. He has slipped backinstead of progressing in this year. He cannot be pampered any longer without getting any tangible return. People much more talented than him have paid with their career for showing similar lack of attitude.
For example, Vinod Kambli of India was dropped for ever because of his indiscipline, even though he was genuinely talented as his career average of 54.2 in tests(17 tests) and ODI average of 32.59 (104 ODI)show and no tears were shed for him.

Alok Kapali still has chances to come back, but he will need to capitalise on them and not take his place for granted, otherwise no team can afford to carry a non performer for ever only because of the alleged talent that he may possess.

Iram
August 11, 2004, 10:34 AM
No, Kapali was given so many chances to get himself back. But he failed to do it. He has been doing bad since the Pakistan tour last year though he got the first ever hatrick for Bangladesh in test matches. So, he got almost one year to get his form back. On the other hand, after Ashraful played badly in Pakistan, he was dropped from the squad against England. So, if we compare between Ashraful and Kapali, we will find that Kapali should have done much better. The selectors were giving him chances one after another but he couldn't prove himself. So, I think it is better to give him rest. Who knows?, may be he will get back his form again as Ashraful did after he was dropped from the squad against England.

Mon
August 11, 2004, 03:43 PM
In this particular discussion, Kapali is an issue of concern, but do you guys see the bigger point I am trying to make? This time itís Kapali and next time it might be Bashar, Saleh, or even Rafiq!. I do not want that to happen. Our aim should be at building a competitive team. Itís totally fine if we donít win all the matches now. I donítí expect the BD team to defeat Australia, India, or Pakistan now. Perhaps we can start with Zimbabwe (as we already have defeated them in an ODI match). We should take a steady approach in our team building. So what if it takes time? At the end, we will come out in bright colors. Look at Sri Lanka!!

Anyways, Some of us leave so far from our homeland and want to take pride in our team. Even http://www.cricket.org criticized the selectorsí decision. I am not the only one. I still think it was a bad idea to leave him out.
:rolleyes:

[Edited on 11-8-2004 by Mon]

wasif
August 11, 2004, 05:00 PM
Mon
I am pleased that selection board has changed Alok due to his repeted frusting performance in number of series. Most of the BD thinks our sounds .