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oracle
January 18, 2005, 07:50 AM
So why is he absent from Cricinfo all of a sudden? Too biased?
Is this a tad better-


The mission to win a series had finally been accomplished, but the showing in the second Test indicated that Bangladesh still had some way to go with their mental approach


And is this St. Lucia deja vu. Don't know. But I like my salad on the sides. A draw is a draw and a win is a win.
C'mon Cricinfo.:D

Edited on, January 18, 2005, 12:51 PM GMT, by oracle.

Arnab
January 18, 2005, 08:20 AM
I am still waiting for the @#$%ers at rediff to update their ranking.

shakilc
January 18, 2005, 08:22 AM
Whoever Rahul Bhatia is ....he needs to change his attitude towards Bangladesh. He is a F***g idiot writer.

This is the first series win for Bangladesh ..but see the cricketinfo's writing about it...I think we should seriously thinking of sending complain about its standard and bias approach and also starts to boycott it.

Arnab
January 18, 2005, 08:27 AM
Rahul Bhatia wrote

Chasing 374 was a real possibility, given that they needed only 276 on the final with all ten wickets in hand on a pitch which suited their batsmen. But they chose to tread the safe path, which was a disappointing choice.

What is the record for fourth innings run chase?

What is the record for final day run chase?

Arnab
January 18, 2005, 08:30 AM
374 would have been the fourth highest run chase in test history.

Number of Occasions a Side was set 374+ to score in the fourth innings to win: 197
Wins (Team Achieved Target): 3
Losses (Team Failed to Achieve Target): 135
Matches Drawn: 58

*****

Rahul Bhatia is talking out of his a$$. Chasing 374 was a real possibility alright. A possibility of (3/197) = 1.5%

Edited on, January 18, 2005, 1:37 PM GMT, by Arnab.

Mahmood
January 18, 2005, 09:05 AM
They want a exciting end, so it is natural they will cry and whine, let them.

For BD, this is the best play BD ever made. I am impressed, how calculated game plan they executed. WOW!

usa101
January 18, 2005, 09:14 AM
I agree. I have already registered my complaints in Wisden Crickinfo.
These Indian writers are not welcome until they change their filthy attitude towards Bangladesh. Bangladesh have enough talents who could better wirte than these sleazy Indians. It only shows jealousy and hatred towards Bangladesh.
I would urge all to register their complains to Cricinfo.

AdLon
January 18, 2005, 09:15 AM
I think Rahul Bhatia still haunted by that 2nd ODI game India Vs Bangladesh. Journalist like Rahul Bhatia is so cheap that INDIA is always spinning over his head even he is writting about BD Vs Zim test report, it's not a surprise for me.

ShortAndRising
January 18, 2005, 09:25 AM
Cricinfo needs a sizeable overhaul of its credibility.

I wrote a complaint against one indian writer who very nakedly criticized
Bangladesh. Although, I didnt get any feedback from them, I think we
should raise our voice against this unhealthy Indian domination in cricinfo.
In this context, I like to draw your attention to Cricbuzz too. It remains
silent to BD matches whereas unimportant onedayers get coverage.
As a reason behind all these, one can point to absence of good cricket sites
hosted by Bangladeshis which gain the acceptance among global cricket fans.

ZunaidH
January 18, 2005, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by ShortAndRising
Cricinfo needs a sizeable overhaul of its credibility.

I wrote a complaint against one indian writer who very nakedly criticized
Bangladesh. Although, I didnt get any feedback from them, I think we
should raise our voice against this unhealthy Indian domination in cricinfo.
In this context, I like to draw your attention to Cricbuzz too. It remains
silent to BD matches whereas unimportant onedayers get coverage.
As a reason behind all these, one can point to absence of good cricket sites
hosted by Bangladeshis which gain the acceptance among global cricket fans.

Keep sending emails. It may work. Andrew Miller was writing crap about BD only a year ago and I sent at least half a dozen email. I don't know whether he read them or not. But he stopped writing garbage about BD. This was somewhere around the time when England toured BD.

AsifTheManRahman
January 18, 2005, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by Arnab
I am still waiting for the @#$%ers at rediff to update their ranking.

you're not giving up on rediff yet are you? :D

Warlock
January 18, 2005, 09:40 AM
Rahul Bhatia, Ravi Shastri, Arun Lal- guess why these names come up again and again. Why they are always eager to undermine Bangladesh's image? Remeber the mission Sourov Ganguly embarked upon last year- Two Tier Test System? And why Cricinfo is always critical of our performances? There is only a single reason behind this- and we are all aware of that.
We taught them a "Bangla lesson" in the last ODI series. No wonder Rahul Bhatia and friends can't forget that so soon.
Forget about our dear friends Ravi and Rahul. Let's appreciate what our boys have performed and be rightfully proud of that.
The 18-year old wonder Enamul have established two new WORLD RECORDs by being the youngest cricket player to take 7 or more wickets in a test-match innings and 12 or more wickets in a test match in total. Surely Rahul Bhatia doesn't like to write about that nor Ravi wants to comment about that.
Having been set a target of 370+ in the second innings and 5 sessions to go, everybody had thought BD will miserably lose. Instead, a teenager called Nafis Iqbal went on to play for more than one day and score a maiden ton facing 355 balls in the process. In his wake, he thwarted Zimbabwe and Taibu's every attempt to get back into the match. Such application, such rock-wall defense, such determination- especially in one so young, surely don't have any meaning to Rahul Bhatia except being negative.
No wonder there is no Rabeed Imam to write another of his lyrical reports- that wouldn't have satisfied the cricIndo people. So they have turned to the faithful Rahul Bhatia with a jaundiced eye that cannot see Bangladesh in a true color.

AsifTheManRahman
January 18, 2005, 09:42 AM
yeah we should kick their butts when we meet them again...when is that btw?

fwullah
January 18, 2005, 09:51 AM
For BD, this is the best play BD ever made. I am impressed, how calculated game plan they executed. WOW!


Yes, WOW! And that, after losing all those test matches and test series all in a row, plus having no experience or getting all those negetivisms of defeating out of our way - no past records of 'saving' an actual test match by playing out the overs - WOW!

fwullah
January 18, 2005, 09:53 AM
I think Rahul Bhatia still haunted by that 2nd ODI game India Vs Bangladesh.


Agreed.

rafiq
January 18, 2005, 09:57 AM
Wow this thread feels like a Heil Bangla convention! I do have something to say about chasing 374, but will find a different thread to say it in. I don't care about some of these commentators either, but you guys are completely on the other end of the bias spectrum with some of these comments.

ShortAndRising
January 18, 2005, 09:57 AM
How come Indians, fellow countrymen of Gavaskar and Co., criticizes our
boys for being defensive!!!!!!

Did they forget history? Tests after tests, innings after innings, India batted
and batted and batted. I wonder what they would do in case Australia left
a similar target in front of India. To my belief, they would implode to a
pathetic defeat and that too going for a draw, not win...

ShortAndRising
January 18, 2005, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by rafiq
Wow this thread feels like a Heil Bangla convention! I do have something to say about chasing 374, but will find a different thread to say it in. I don't care about some of these commentators either, but you guys are completely on the other end of the bias spectrum with some of these comments.

That would be an inappropriate interpretation.
You are welcome to present your view, whichever way it
might go. This is a free society.

Zobair
January 18, 2005, 10:12 AM
I agree! Some of this Indian commentator bashing is extreme and uncalled for. Arun Lal got a bit carried away at times but I thought generally they made very good points. Ravi Shastri spelled out why he (he is a genuine well-wisher of Bangladesh crikcet IMO and a fair commentator) wanted Bangladesh to be more positive- if Bangladesh completely went on the defensive there would come a time when Taibu would know for sure that Bangladesh will not be able to achieve the target and thus be free to set whatever attacking fields that he needed in order to take some wickets...for a few moments after tea as Pilot struggled to face the Zimbabwe bowlers I feared Ravi's refrain would come true.

Anyways, I urge our members to be fair and tolerant in their judgement. I know a lot of us feel hard done by the Indian media/journalists (its not just the Indians- the English and the kiwis and th Aussies at times have been virulent in their criticisms) and of course fan comments online, but we still should not generalise. We have fans here from India, and Australia and I dare say NZ (not as active members) who are genuine well-wishers of our game and we are hurting them unwittingly with these generalizations as well..

I am not saying that if we feel that their arguements are unfair we shouldn't protest. I am just saying that we should be dignified and educated and measured about it. After all our purpose is not just shout, attack people's intentions, and inevitably have it fall on deaf ears. Rather we should look to convert people's perceptions and opinions through reason. At least that is my take on it.


Originally posted by rafiq
Wow this thread feels like a Heil Bangla convention! I do have something to say about chasing 374, but will find a different thread to say it in. I don't care about some of these commentators either, but you guys are completely on the other end of the bias spectrum with some of these comments.

Edited on, January 18, 2005, 3:13 PM GMT, by pompous.

Edited on, January 18, 2005, 3:17 PM GMT, by pompous.

thecoolestleo
January 18, 2005, 10:14 AM
Rahul is a complete stereotyped idiot. We proved what we are and its not that far when we dont need to answer what he says .
Guys! just ignore what he says ,what you can expect form a cheap , mean indian ...........................
ONE DOWN EIGHT MORE TO GO ................... :ninja::ninja::ninja:

AsifTheManRahman
January 18, 2005, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by rafiq
Wow this thread feels like a Heil Bangla convention! I do have something to say about chasing 374, but will find a different thread to say it in. I don't care about some of these commentators either, but you guys are completely on the other end of the bias spectrum with some of these comments.

arey bhai jaan relax...we're just having some fun here - nothing serious hehe

oracle
January 18, 2005, 10:16 AM
I agree! Some of this Indian commentator bashing is extreme and uncalled for.


Amen to that. And the main point of this thread, folks, was to find out - What happened to Rabeed Imam? Hence, the conspiracy flutters.:)

Let's see maybe he will write something today, and in a pleasantly biased mode.

Arnab
January 18, 2005, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by AsifTheManRahman
Originally posted by Arnab
I am still waiting for the @#$%ers at rediff to update their ranking.

you're not giving up on rediff yet are you? :D

No. They pissed me off.

ShortAndRising
January 18, 2005, 10:18 AM
Pompous got a point. We shouldnt get carried away and point our fingers
to all Indians in general.
However, I, personally, still feel that

CRICINFO NEEDS REAL OVERHAUL

Zobair
January 18, 2005, 10:19 AM
hehe...oracle bhai...your emoticon for this thread gave it all away :D

Originally posted by oracle

I agree! Some of this Indian commentator bashing is extreme and uncalled for.


Amen to that. And the main point of this thread, folks, was to find out - What happened to Rabeed Imam? Hence, the conspiracy flutters.:)

Let's see maybe he will write something today, and in a pleasantly biased mode.

Edited on, January 18, 2005, 3:19 PM GMT, by pompous.

Ibrahim
January 18, 2005, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by ghor_jamai
Originally posted by ShortAndRising
Cricinfo needs a sizeable overhaul of its credibility.

I wrote a complaint against one indian writer who very nakedly criticized
Bangladesh. Although, I didnt get any feedback from them, I think we
should raise our voice against this unhealthy Indian domination in cricinfo.
In this context, I like to draw your attention to Cricbuzz too. It remains
silent to BD matches whereas unimportant onedayers get coverage.
As a reason behind all these, one can point to absence of good cricket sites
hosted by Bangladeshis which gain the acceptance among global cricket fans.

Keep sending emails. It may work. Andrew Miller was writing crap about BD only a year ago and I sent at least half a dozen email. I don't know whether he read them or not. But he stopped writing garbage about BD. This was somewhere around the time when England toured BD.

It is the policy to get connected with media and control them some respect as a consumer. Please keep sending protest email to CricInfo about the Indi/Paki writers who write wrong about BD.

rafiq
January 18, 2005, 10:22 AM
ATR, whenever I need to finance a coup somewhere to protect our great nation's interests, I will definitely call you my friend!!:)

AsifTheManRahman
January 18, 2005, 10:25 AM
no problem man! :up:

chinaman
January 18, 2005, 10:29 AM
Guys, please do not call names with nationality. A handful of people never represent a country. Hateful comments towards a country instead of the offenders are extremely painful and unfair to the rest of their compatriots.

Cricinfo has many reporters with "Indian looking" names. But are we 100% sure of their nationality? Even if we were, it is not fair, the very thing we want from them in the first place, to blame a whole country just because we don't agree with some of it's men's views.

Please be very considerate and careful about commenting against a whole nation. Thank you very much.

offcutter
January 18, 2005, 11:11 AM
If we are to play in the big leagues then we must act like it and accept criticism. Why do we care so much about who said what? And can we, in all honesty say that these people don't have a point (extreme cases such as Arun Lal not withstanding)?

I am as excited as anybody about the progress our team has made in the recent months but if we get complaicent with this limited success then further improvement will be hampered and we do have ways to go before we can stake a claim as the elites in this business. No one should expect this journey to be smooth and criticism (fair or unfair) is part of it.

Even the best teams/players will get hamered by the press from time to time. Lara's 400 run innings was criticized severly by the Australian press for being 'selfish' and playing for personal 'record' and not for the 'team'. Ricky Ponting himself said that.

So let us not undermine our team's achievment by name calling and strereotyping. The best way to answer critic is to perform-Lets hope our boys can do that.

reinausagi
January 18, 2005, 11:20 AM
The Cricinfo writers who demean or adopt a condescending attitude towards Bd are infuriting. My first reaction is to wish I could call 'em up and tell 'em to shut up and eat their chapatti. but, they are merely arm-chair quaterbacks who write for a website where we (BD fans) are the minority consumer. it may not be right but, the condescension will continue (albiet in more subtle form) for some time to come.

CTazim
January 18, 2005, 11:38 AM
We need to be objective about the reporters as well and we are not being objective here!

IMHO, Ravi Shastri is definitely a well wisher of Bangladesh. He wanted us to play positive cricket because he knew that Taibu could sense our defensive demeanor; Taibu actually did in the middle of the day and had a very attacking field onwards. Secondly, Ravi was repeatedly saying that Bangladesh could make history as being the first in the continent (as a venue) to chase 350+ runs.

Yes out of 197 outcomes only 3 were wins and based on the probabilty the chances were 3 in 197. But there are other factors involved in the strategy that BD should have accounted for that were significantly different from the other 197 second innings chases.

Case in point:

1. The Pitch --> A batsman's paradise
2. The opponent --> Not very convincing bowling
3. End of Fourth day score --> 98/0
4. Fifth day chase --> 276 with 10 wickets in hand and 90 overs with a asking run rate 3.07.
5. The depths of our batsmen --> Relatively not bad. We ought to believe in ourselves !

6. Home team advantage.

On how many occassions in those 197 outcomes were situations so favorable for a home team than that Bangladesh had in the second innnings of the second test agains Zimbabwe.

Keep in mind that playing for a draw could be one of the factors that we lost Bashar, Ash and Aftab cheaply. However, one thing to consider was whether Rafique and Masri were fit to bat or not. Then maybe a faint justification be made for playing defensive and negative cricket. Nevertheless, we congratulate Bangladesh on their maiden series victory. A clean sweep would have been icing on the cake. :)

Secondly, I think we need to protest when necessary with facts and figures but acknowledge and appreciate criticism when appropriate. I did not see positive cricket from Bangladesh until the last 10-15 overs on the 5th day of the match; I think reaching the target was doable from 15 overs onwards into the 5th day; however, playing balls outside the off stump half heartedly is not indication of positive and aggressive cricket :). So, it is befitting when we are told that we lack the mental strength. Yes, I myself smell rats in articles written by reporters in Cricinfo, but there are people who are genuine well wishers and we need to acknowledge that. Hearing them out objectively is good for us and it is good for Bangladesh cricket.

Ahmed_B
January 18, 2005, 12:16 PM
WOW....This is such a hypocritical world!!!

When we say "The big teams took long long years to win their first ever test".. then they reply "Well... we drew so many matches before we actually won!... and what hav u done??NOTHING!!":duh:

and when we Draw a test with real performance... they say"This is not CRICKET!!!"
:D

SUCH BIG HYPOCRITES!!!!!



Edited on, January 18, 2005, 5:27 PM GMT, by crickethorizon.

pagol-chagol
January 18, 2005, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Arnab
374 would have been the fourth highest run chase in test history.

Number of Occasions a Side was set 374+ to score in the fourth innings to win: 197
Wins (Team Achieved Target): 3
Losses (Team Failed to Achieve Target): 135
Matches Drawn: 58

*****

Rahul Bhatia is talking out of his a$$. Chasing 374 was a real possibility alright. A possibility of (3/197) = 1.5%

Edited on, January 18, 2005, 1:37 PM GMT, by Arnab.

Could you send this to cricinfo. Nice research. Where did you get the numbers?

pagol-chagol
January 18, 2005, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by Rajputro
They want a exciting end, so it is natural they will cry and whine, let them.

For BD, this is the best play BD ever made. I am impressed, how calculated game plan they executed. WOW!

ABSOLUTELY.

Huda
January 18, 2005, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by fwullah

For BD, this is the best play BD ever made. I am impressed, how calculated game plan they executed. WOW!


Yes, WOW! And that, after losing all those test matches and test series all in a row, plus having no experience or getting all those negetivisms of defeating out of our way - no past records of 'saving' an actual test match by playing out the overs - WOW!

another WOW to that, i agree with you both completely, now we have experience, this game plan was great and can only enhance our game not damage it. great fighting spirit, thats what we saw today.

pagol-chagol
January 18, 2005, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by chinaman
Guys, please do not call names with nationality. A handful of people never represent a country. Hateful comments towards a country instead of the offenders are extremely painful and unfair to the rest of their compatriots.

Cricinfo has many reporters with "Indian looking" names. But are we 100% sure of their nationality? Even if we were, it is not fair, the very thing we want from them in the first place, to blame a whole country just because we don't agree with some of it's men's views.

Please be very considerate and careful about commenting against a whole nation. Thank you very much.

THANK YOU.

Shoikoth
January 18, 2005, 12:41 PM
I think all the Indian riters in CI should be replaced by BD writers. Some of our own fans here at BC who enjoy Indian bias can choose to subscribe to the hateful INdian writing with their own money.

Nothing is going overbord. Some banglas here just love Indians. it is somethingthey inhirited from there mama papas.

oracle
January 18, 2005, 12:59 PM
Ok- please see Chinaman's message.

Obviously, members are continuing with the vilification. Stop this.

Criticize the editorial board- yes.
Nationalities- no.

one more nationality comment and the thread will be closed.

RazabQ
January 18, 2005, 01:24 PM
Yes - I am often perturbed by the condescending or even downright -ve tone taken by some of the mainstream cricket media (such as Cricinfo).

Yes - I wish they would acknowledge the positives more often.

No - I do not want to smell conspiracies because one author writes a closing piece

No - I will not tar an entire nation because of the acts of a few squeaky wheels.

Guys,

Lets lose this collective chip we have on our shoulders. Because we are a smaller country, weaker cricketing nation, and don't have much clout in world affairs (yet), occasionally we will run into some condescending and denegrating comments. Jot em down, and then prove em wrong in your actions. Or just ignore em.

Either way, let's not get worked up about such matters when our boys have just gained the self-belief that they _can_ bat out 5+ sessions if needed. Baby steps man, baby steps.

Razab

cluster11
January 18, 2005, 01:38 PM
Folks,
chinaman is very right. I think soem board members confuse individual cricket analysts with their nationality. I know of many well-wishers of BD cricket who are from the sub-continent. And also thse commentators who criticize BD also criticize India, Pakistan and other teams unfairly many times. Commentators will do that, and we have every righ to respond to unfair criticism. But bringing in someone's antionality is uncalled for.

The cricinfo match bulletin on the 2nd test between BD and Zimbabwe was biased to say the least. The writer did not emphasized the excellent achievements that happened in this match - Enamuls' world record of 12 wickets, Taibu's heroic batting, Rafique's brave fight despite injury, Nafis's match savign ton - these were not emphasized. What was emphasized (and a whole para devoted to in the end so it becomes the summary fo the whole test) is that BD did not go for a win. The guy sounded like a immature teenager jumping in the stands, bored becuase he doesnt understand the game. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out BD could not go for the win when they regularly lost wickets whenever trying to accelerate.

All the strike batsmen - Ash, Bashar, Aftab failed to carry on. Only Nafis did, but he had changed his whole style and for a young kid like him to play with the temperment of Sunil Gavaskar was just amazing. This was poor commentry on the match by a cricket analyst. Nothing mroe nothign less - and it really is not worth givign anymore importance to.

pagol-chagol
January 18, 2005, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by pagol-chagol
Originally posted by Arnab
374 would have been the fourth highest run chase in test history.

Number of Occasions a Side was set 374+ to score in the fourth innings to win: 197
Wins (Team Achieved Target): 3
Losses (Team Failed to Achieve Target): 135
Matches Drawn: 58

*****

Rahul Bhatia is talking out of his a$$. Chasing 374 was a real possibility alright. A possibility of (3/197) = 1.5%

Edited on, January 18, 2005, 1:37 PM GMT, by Arnab.

Could you please find out how many of those 58 draws were achieved chasing for 140+ overs. There may not be any.

Could you send this to cricinfo. Nice research. Where did you get the numbers?

Arnab
January 18, 2005, 02:46 PM
Actually, my last calculation was incomplete/erroneous. Here's the revised data:

Number of Occasions Side Set 374+ to Win: 232
Wins (Team Achieved Target): 3
Losses (Team Failed to Achieve Target): 167
Matches Drawn: 61

Arnab
January 18, 2005, 02:58 PM
Could you please find out how many of those 58 draws were achieved chasing for 140+ overs. There may not be any.

I can do this country by country.

Out of those 61 draws, 12 invloved India as the chasing team.
India lasted 140+ overs once, in 1979, against England in England.

Australia had 12 such draws, never lasted 140+ overs.

England had 13 such draws, lasted 140+ overs 3 times.

I will fill in more.

Edited on, January 18, 2005, 8:01 PM GMT, by Arnab.

BD Tigers
January 18, 2005, 03:11 PM
yea its interesting to find that Rabeed Imam is vanished when the test series was won. Until then he was writing all the articles. What exactly happend that made this change? Rabeed Imam is a journalist of Prothom-Alo. Anybody care to contact him for an explanation?

Spitfire_x86
January 18, 2005, 03:22 PM
Rabeed Imam is a journalist of Daily Star.