View Full Version : Devil's Advocate

January 29, 2005, 10:20 AM
Congrats Tigers for a great comeback and setting up for an exciting final match..!!

I just got done listening to the 'award presentation' segment and was compelled to post this topic.

This probably not in the top of the priority list of BCB..but they should, at some point, do something about some of the players' English skill. I feel bad when they got a mic in front of them and fumble trying form a sentence.

I guess the players are product of overall apathy (or lack of emphasis on learning English) in BD public school. The system to 'learn' English is still the one left behind by British Raj. Kids are terrified trying to remember correct way of changing the 'voice' and memorizing tense and cojugations etc. I remember not being able to ever remember what kind of 'to be' verb needs to added for a certain form of tense. It was NEVER about learning the language or the ability to speak it fluently. Same thing could be said about our intro to Arabic <--- just enough to learn how to read some chapters in the Quran like parrot w/o understanding anything or learning the language. At least it was in my case.

I always wonder why someone in BD can spend 12 years 'learning' English and not able to carry on a conversation at a basic level; yet some of the very people can go to countries like Germany/Sweden with zero knowledge of the respective languages, and can get a university degree after a short immersion in their language course.
It must be the way we teach/learn English and the colonial mentality of admiration for someone who can utter some words or curse in English.
Then again, I wonder why people from India (at the ones I met in the US) overall come with better English skill than those are from BD? I realize that the S. Indians are good English speakers for their traditional preference of English over the imposed lingua franca - Hindi. But, I've seen people from W.Bengal speak better English compare to someone from BD w/ similar socio-economic and educational background. Why?...Aren't they supposed to be part of the same colonial educational system?
Also, how come Pakistanis are no better than us in the same dept?
Does the whole thing have anything to do w/ us being part of 'them' at one point?
I know I went off on a tangent here...but needed get this off my chest. :)

Edited on, January 30, 2005, 5:51 AM GMT, by BushidoTiger.

January 29, 2005, 10:56 AM
you know who is the worst - pilot !! when he was captain i listened to him couple of times, and I didn't understand A SINGLE WORD he said.

Well, after the first test win, i heard an interview of him, and this time it was in Bangla, and I didn't understand A SINGLE WORD he said :)

January 29, 2005, 11:03 AM
There is a big difference between being taught English in Bangladesh by poor teachers who don't speak grammatically correct English themselves and going to a country where you are compelled to learn their language to survive basically and get plenty of practice in it. Think about it, some village school kid in Bangladesh has absolutely no opportunity to converse in English with anyone. Whatever they are taught at school, most of it grammatically wrong anyway, is what they learn. The only way to learn a language properly is to get a lot of practice speaking it.

As for our players, I used to think the same way. But I think as long as they play well, I couldn't care less about how good their English is. Because cricket is a colonial game, all cricketing nations speak English, and we feel that our players should speak it as well for the presentation ceremony. But in a lot of other global sports, top sportsmen and women don't speak any English at all!

January 29, 2005, 11:13 AM
Yeah....If some of em speak well...we'll take it......but if they don't..well who'd give a [edit] if they continue to play the way they r doin right now...Let me put it this way bro....EVEN MARADONA CAN'T SPEAK ENGLISH !!!

Edited on, January 29, 2005, 7:26 PM GMT, by chinaman.

January 29, 2005, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by Shehwar
Yeah....If some of em speak well...we'll take it......but if they don't..well who'd give a [edit] if they continue to play the way they r doin right now...Let me put it this way bro....EVEN MARADONA CAN'T SPEAK ENGLISH !!!

Maradonna is semi-illeterate. The point bushido is trying to make, I think, is whether we can help the players learn some communications skills. Perhaps it is not impossible. But, they should identify their needs first. It isn't that difficult.

Edited on, January 29, 2005, 4:21 PM GMT, by ghor_jamai.

Edited on, January 29, 2005, 7:26 PM GMT, by chinaman.
Reason: quote edit

January 30, 2005, 12:37 AM
Thanks GJ for putting it in such eloquoently simple manner..at least there exists one person who understood what I was trying to say from all my gibberish.
[This is what happens when you pull an alnighter w/ your team - mentally and physically drained/elated (yep both) and type w/ a single remaining brain cell] :)

January 30, 2005, 10:30 AM
i have several indian friends from karnataka and also some from madras..... none of them are really good english speakers. on the other hand i have seen some paks who can speak english really well.

to be good in a language, one has to speak that, read books/newspapers in that language......... its a slow process. but i dont really think a player should be able to speak english because the reason he is there is to play not to speak. just like maradona cant speak english but is he any less famous for that inability?

i am still waiting for the day, when a person will take pride in speaking bangla (even though he is efficient in several other languages), his mother tongue. one of my indian friends has told me that bangla is the most powerful language in the subcontinent, only a bengali has won nobel prize because of bangla literature(rabindranath), no other language in subcontinet can claim that .:flag:

January 30, 2005, 10:39 AM
Well Shahid Afridi continues to speak Urdu during his MOM award presentations. I think anyone should just pull up their hand and say, "sorry i'm not confident"- there's no harm in that. Also there's no harm in trying either.
Who could imagine Mashrafe talking in English? I'm amazed- but he did understand the interviewer and he did interpret it correctly- maybe he lacked verbal skills but thats ok.
Waqar Younis- when he first broke into International Cricket was even worse than some of our players(in English)- but now he's doing commentary!!! Do you know how he did it? He took English lessons while he was playing for Surrey- he was talking to ppl 24-7 in England.
One needs to have that "iccha" to improve oneself in English in order to do so. I taught English classes in a coaching center in BD and every single of my students improved at least 50-60% in 2 months becoz i helped them believe that they could improve!

January 30, 2005, 10:58 AM
I rather see them spend their valuable time learning the techniques and intricacies of Cricket. And the rest of the little time they have I hope they can spend with their family.

If they spend their lives learning what we have they would be where we are and if we spend our lives learning cricket and not English etc. we would be where they are.

To hell with English.:fanflag:

January 30, 2005, 11:24 AM
All of you need to relax a bit. Command of one's English should never be a precondition for playing cricket. And BCB can invest thier energy in many other ways then giving English courses to our cricketers. What they CAN do is enlist the help of someone in the team (player or official) who speaks English as an interprator. No need to put extra pressure.

And our players need to realize that there's no shame in saying that he'll need an interprator to communicate. Absolutely 100% OK to do that. This is being done around the world in all sorts of sport. The face of cricket is changing and it is no longer "mandatory" to speak English. 80% of Pakistanis and about 70% of Sri lankan cricketers don't speak English and we would do well to emulate either one of these teams.

I agree with BushidoTiger that English is not taught properly in our schools but our cricketers are hardly the place to look for a remedy.

January 30, 2005, 11:25 AM
Agree 100% with pago-chhagol.

January 30, 2005, 11:59 AM
Agree with both BushidoTiger and BangladshFan.

Off Topic - As for Indians speaking English, I find it extremely difficult to concentrate on what they are saying with 'Indian accent'! I've come across many accent including 'Raw Yorkshire accent', 'Gordie accent' (newcastle), 'Southern drawl' (american) or they way sub-saharan Africans speak english. But quite frankly 'Indian accent' is the most painful to ears.

Edited on, January 30, 2005, 5:00 PM GMT, by Zephaniah.

January 30, 2005, 01:25 PM
and moreover the socio economic background of our cricketrs shd be taken into account. rafiq, baishya, kapali, enamul jr. and many more of our national heros do not come from the privilaged class like we do. Just look at the way they are in their position right now and then think if skill in spoken english is important or not.

I am very proud of them even though their ENGLISH sucks.

January 30, 2005, 01:53 PM
I second pagol-chagol.

If they can speak English, that's good. If they can't, that's not a problem.

January 30, 2005, 02:07 PM
I’m absolutely not bothered if our players fail to deliver their post-match speech in ‘Impressive’ English accent. More important than ‘Perfect Accent’ is their fluency.. speak & understand upto a certain level...and these r the more important outcomes of it:

-Almost our full current set of coaches/physio/trainers r English-spoken. Better understanding will only help them.

-Communication-fluency only helps making friends easier. When someone is good with communication skills its far easier for him to have conversation with the quality players of other sides during the tours/series. This surely helps that particular player to learn much faster than others.

I’m not sure how this skill of theirs can be improved.. or if it is worthy enough to make them work on it.. but it would only help them in their process of improvement in the game.

Saying once more: how they perform with their speech in the post-match programs.. is of least value to me really!