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savyasachi
February 3, 2005, 12:41 AM
With the 2 weaker zones in their group ( comparatively speaking ), BCB XI have a easier route to the final. If they make it, they will probably run into a very strong North or West. They should probably be hoping South pull it off.

Make no mistake, the Duleep is the second strongest 1st class competition after the Pura Cup. It will be a tough test and certainly for me a better indication of the potential quality in the side than the Zimbabwe series victory.

So my question is, do the members of this forum think the same way?

Blah
February 3, 2005, 12:46 AM
Your 2nd option and the third option is the same. Fourth unnecessary. Obviously you cannot compare Test match win with 1class tournament win, it's a no-brainer.

Blah

cricketfan
February 3, 2005, 01:55 AM
It is a first class tournament, but most of the teams consist of players who have played for India. For example, almost every North Zone player has played for India. So North Zone is as strong as a test team. Same goes for West and South Zone.

Central and East Zone are comparatively weaker teams on paper, but even these two teams consist of a lot of national players. At present these zones are playing in Deodhar trophy(OD tournament among the zones) and every zone seems capable of beating every other zone. So make no mistake, East and Central zone will prove stronger than Zimbabwe.

shujan
February 3, 2005, 01:59 AM
Cricketfan:

As I can see every team is playing 2 games. How they decide who goess to final?

reinausagi
February 3, 2005, 02:00 AM
Should send the Chittagong divisional (1st class) team to the Duleep engagement- not a BCB XI. Gives too much iomport to what is essentially the second rate 1st class tourney in a neighboring test playing country.

The only measure of BD test playing talent will against fellow test playing nation's test teams.:flag:

cricketfan
February 3, 2005, 02:05 AM
The six teams are divided into two groups of three teams each. The winner of each group will reach the final. East Zone, Central Zone and BCB XI are in one group and the winner among them will reach the final.

Similarly the other group consists of North, West and South Zones and the winner among them will make it to the final.

Thus the finalists will get to play three matches( final in addition to the two group matchess) where as the eliminated teams will get to play two group matches.

shujan
February 3, 2005, 02:11 AM
Bangladesh is in the group with central and east. So Bangladesh should reach final easily as central and east are struggling. :up:

cricketfan
February 3, 2005, 02:13 AM
reinausagi
Second rate Ist class tournament? It is one stage above the Ranji trophy. Do you think BCB XI will be able to win this second rate tournament. English A team had finished at the bottom the last year in this tournament.

Blah
February 3, 2005, 02:48 AM
You can't compare england A team with BD XI team atleast in this only case. England are famous for being the worst spin playing team in the world, and india is famous for being the spin friendly heaven in the world. I bet, not having seen the scorecard of england A games in last years deleep trophy, they must have been seriously rolled over by spinners on slow, low bounce wickets.

Ofcourse, this is a very exciting tournament to perticipate in, and ofcourse BD did the right thing by sending a good strong team, and ofcourse a win in souch a tournament would be cherishable, but by no means it is better than a test match, any test match against anyone; especially when it's our first win.

That's why I thought the question was a no-brainer.

Blah

Dev
February 3, 2005, 02:59 AM
hey guys
why Khondokar Mohammad Rezaul Haque is not in the team ? look and check his profile at
http://www.cricinfo.com/db/PLAYERS/BDESH/R/REZAUL_HAQUE_25035557/

mahbubH
February 3, 2005, 03:10 AM
Originally posted by Dev
hey guys
why Khondokar Mohammad Rezaul Haque is not in the team ? look and check his profile at
http://www.cricinfo.com/db/PLAYERS/BDESH/R/REZAUL_HAQUE_25035557/

Coz he is Razin's brother ..... two brothers cannot play for a team (silly ..l.. trophy rule ;))

bourny3
February 3, 2005, 03:18 AM
The waughs can. Holiokes. I voted for the second option the forth option was good lol.

shujan
February 3, 2005, 04:16 AM
Is duleep trophy 3 day test format game?

cricketfan
February 3, 2005, 05:02 AM
It is played in 4 days format

shujan
February 3, 2005, 05:15 AM
Thanx. sorry I do not know to much about the tournament. I am going to soon.:)

shujan
February 3, 2005, 05:36 AM
I am interested to see East Bengal VS Bangladesh match. East bengal fall into east zone I guess. Ganguly will probably lead that zone.

reverse_swing
February 3, 2005, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by shujan
I am interested to see East Bengal VS Bangladesh match. East bengal fall into east zone I guess. Ganguly will probably lead that zone.

btw what is east bengal?

cricketfan
February 3, 2005, 05:45 AM
You mean West Bengal.It falls in east zone and it plays in elite group of Ranji trophy. Though Ganguly plays for West Bengal he does not lead it. Rohan Gavaskar was the captain till now. Now it is Devang Gandhi who is the captain.

shujan
February 3, 2005, 06:01 AM
Yes West Bengal. In Ranji trophy I followed west bengal and MP match where ganguly played and he scored 80 some run.

Duleep is different then Ranji, East zone probably has bengal and Asham players in it. who will lead East zone? I think I can get a clear picture from crickinfo about the players detail. I will do some digging.

cricketfan
February 3, 2005, 06:50 AM
In the Duleep trophy of last year, South Zone, East Zone and England A were in one group, whereas North, South and Central were in the other zone.
North and East won their respective groups and met in the final where North won by 59 runs.

As for the matches involving England A, following are the details:
East Zone vs Eng A:
EZ 283 & 308, Eng A 225 & 273
EZ won by 93 runs.
In this match, medium pacer SS Paul did the maximum damage taking 8 wickets in the match

South Zone vs Eng A:
Eng A 377 & 297/8 decl, SZ 174 & 503/4
SZ won by 6 wickets
In this match Y. Venugopal Rao scored 228 not out as South Zone chased a mammoth 503 runs in the fourth innings successfully.

Eng A included Kevin Pietersen, Simon Jones, Ed Smith and Kabir Ali in their team. England did not lose their matches because of spin friendly conditions as was suggested by someone. They were beaten by two stronger teams possessing better batsmen and bowlers.

East Zone, supposedly the weakest zone in India had reached the final.In addition, East Zone had won Deodhar Trophy also( One Day tournament among the zones) the last year.

mwrkhan
February 3, 2005, 07:02 AM
Representative Bangladesh teams should play against sub-continental teams much more often. This will yield results in the long term.

Tintin
February 3, 2005, 07:04 AM
Last year none of the big names played because it clashed with India's matches. This time BCCI has ensured that DT (and Ranji knockout matches) happens while the national team is free.

Sham
February 3, 2005, 07:14 AM
I have a question, and if this has been discussed already, I apologize in advance. But do we just play the two matches and come home or can we actually qualify and play in the finals, and perhaps win the Duleep Trophy? I would think we just play the two matches, like the Busta Cup (not that we qualified for the finals anyway), but it would be interesting if we could actually go on to win the Duleep Trophy. That would give them something to play for, but it would also be weird for the Indians to have BCB XI win the Duleep Trophy!

cricketfan
February 3, 2005, 07:32 AM
One poster had suggested that Chittagong division team should have been sent for this tournament as it was a second rate first class(?) tournament. So he may be expecting BCB XI to have a cakewalk in this tournament.

Of course BCB XI can play in the final and win it also. If it happens, it will be a much more creditable occasion for BD than a test win against Zimbabwe. But I doubt that BCB XI will reach the final which will be a 5 day match.

AsifTheManRahman
February 3, 2005, 09:45 AM
What's Duleep? Or, if more appropriate, who's Duleep?

Anyways, I don't think a Duleep trophy win will be as great as a test win by any means; however, it will be enough to shut some big mouths up

fwullah
February 3, 2005, 10:06 AM
I am totally ignorant of Indian first class tournaments.

I would rate the win and as well as the draw against Zimbabwe a little higher than the Duleep trophy's 2 matches simply because those were 5-day matches and the Duleep trophy will be 4-day matches.

However, I believe the players will find it more mentally satisfying to win in the Duleep trophy compared to the Zimbbwe tests.

But as somebody mentioned, first test win is first test win.

Blah
February 3, 2005, 11:15 AM
[i]
As for the matches involving England A, following are the details:
East Zone vs Eng A:
EZ 283 & 308, Eng A 225 & 273
EZ won by 93 runs.
In this match, medium pacer SS Paul did the maximum damage taking 8 wickets in the match

South Zone vs Eng A:
Eng A 377 & 297/8 decl, SZ 174 & 503/4
SZ won by 6 wickets
In this match Y. Venugopal Rao scored 228 not out as South Zone chased a mammoth 503 runs in the fourth innings successfully.



In the south Zone match joshi took 7 wickets.
Spin bowlers took 10 wickets together.
Fast bowlers took 6 wickets togther out of possible 18 wickets.

http://www.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/2003-04/IND_LOCAL/DULEEP/SCORECARDS/ENG-A_SOUTH_DULEEP_21-24FEB2004.html

In the east zone match spin bowlers took 11 wickets
and fast bolers took 9 wickets.

http://www.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/2003-04/IND_LOCAL/DULEEP/SCORECARDS/EAST_ENG-A_DULEEP_27FEB-01MAR2004.html


England A played the way India A would play if they were send to England to perticipate their first class cricket tournament. Unknown conditions.

Bangladesh in that regard has advantage over England A.

bdmoderator
February 3, 2005, 11:30 AM
The two cannot be compared.

Beamer
February 3, 2005, 11:35 AM
Our batting seems pretty strong. Its almost the national team line up. But bowling on the other hand seems very weak. Missing are Masri, Tapash, rafiq ( rest ) and Enam ( touring with A team ). So, the best available four are not with the team. Shaq, Sharif and Rajib are with the A team as well. That leaves the BCB XI for Duleep trophy with rana, rajjak, tareq, anwar, talha etc...not good enough to win a game with these lot.

fwullah
February 3, 2005, 12:26 PM
Ashraful named the captain in the 14-man squad.

AsifTheManRahman
February 3, 2005, 12:31 PM
why? he doesn't have any leadership qualities.

savyasachi
February 4, 2005, 01:15 AM
Well guys thanks for the replies. It seems all 4 options have pulled votes. Some people have categorically expressed a preference for a test win, others have mentioned that the Duleep will provide a sterner test ( I am in this camp ), yet others have raised valid points why the two cannot be compared. It is also apparent that some dont know much about the Duleep, which was option 4.

The Duleep trophy alongwith the Ranji are India's two oldest 1st class tournaments. In the past, the Duleep used to be played in a round robin league format with the side totalling the highest points the winners. Those were the days when the schedule was a lot less crowded. Now we have many more tests, ODIs of course, and also the new tournaments the Ranji 1-day and the Challenger, both an acknowledgement of the growing importance of the ODI format from the point of view of popularity ( lets face it, there is not much else going for this form of cricket ).

Thus the Duleep has been changed into a short 7 game affair. The 5 zones and an invitational XI are divided into 2 groups. The groups are played as a league with the group winners squaring off in the final. BCB XI are grouped with EZ and CZ ( East and Central ), traditionally the weaker zones in Indian cricket. As with most things, this has changed a bit recently, but it can still be considered as an accurate assessment of the strength in depth of the various zones.

I was under the impression that all matches in the Duleep were 5 day affairs. I dont know why I made this mistake, maybe I am just growing old. It seems the group matches are 4 day affairs. This takes a lot of shine off the prestige of the tournament, and makes a comparison with a test series victory rather more tenuous. Knowing this, I would no longer be as certain as I was before of the relative merits of the two.

However, let me say, with absolute certainty, that 3 of the 5 zones are by any yardstick far stronger than the current Zimbabwe team. Of the other 2 teams, lets look at East.
Here are some players who could possibly turn out for East in this years Duleep - Ganguly, Gandhi, Shukla, Gavaskar, Paul, Das, Dhoni. All of these players have at some time or another represented India. Apart from them, there is Ranadeb Bose whose career I have followed for a while and who IMO is one of the best raw talents in the Indian fast bowling department. He just completed the Ranji season as the highest wicket-taker.

My point is, BCB XI wil do well to qualify for the final. They would have performed beyond my expectations if they go on and win the final. As someone said, that could shut a lot of mouths. But to talk the talk, they must walk the walk.

Now hopefully we can get some more opinions on the matter.

Imran
February 4, 2005, 01:30 AM
To win 4 day matches in India with pitches offering nothing to the seamers, we need quality spinners in the team. I am not sure our XI was sent with good quality spinners. My basic understanding is, sending cricket team to Indian pitches will not bring any good/effective experience at all. Batsman might get un-necessary confidence because the pitch was dead flat and the seamers will be thrashed to shatter their confidence. Unless Indian cricket council do some improvements on their pitch, this series won't be that meaningful.

Beamer
February 4, 2005, 01:53 AM
Well, to begin with, it will never shut some mouths. They will find something negative anyway. Who is talking the talk? us? or Bd players? Nobody is doing any talking. So, walking the walk is irrelevant on that point.

I agree with Mr.Imran and his views. Our batsmen have nothing to gain from the dead pitches of India and pacers will get belted. Also, we didn't send our top two spinners for us to be competetive in any matches. Bowling is awfuly weak. We won't win any matches with these lot of bowlers that we have sent. If we can draw all the matches, I will be happy. It is a strong batting line up. We should be able to achieve that.

cricketfan
February 4, 2005, 06:46 AM
In the past, some posters were critical of BCCI for not assisting BCB in helping improve the standard of BD cricketers. Now that the BCCI has invited BD team to participate in their premier first class tournament, it has been suggested by one poster that it is a second rate tournament fit for Chittagong division team. Another poster feels that this tournament will not benefit BD cricketers.

In the last year, England A had participated in this tournament and the ECB had expressed their thanks to BCCI for allowing their team to participate in this tournament saying that it was an invaluable experience for their players. Indeed, this tournament helped Pietersen and Simon Jones to come into England team.

It appears that some posters will always find faults with BCCI no matter what. If this tournament does not help BD players then I am interested to know from the naysayers what type of tournament will meet with their approval.



Edited on, February 4, 2005, 12:49 PM GMT, by cricketfan.

reverse_swing
February 4, 2005, 07:05 AM
This is gonna be a real test for BD II. I think our bowling is too weak. Anyway I'll be more than happy if we able to avoid defeat in Duleep trophy.

cricketfan
February 4, 2005, 07:33 AM
East Zone Duleep trophy team has been announced. It will be captained by Ganguly and the 15 man squad has about half a dozen names who have been in Indian teams recently.

Ganguly to lead East Zone team for Duleep Trophy (http://in.rediff.com/cricket/2005/feb/04gang.htm)

shujan
February 4, 2005, 07:40 AM
East VS BD will be really interesting to watch. :up:

moin747
February 4, 2005, 08:27 AM
15-18 Feb North Zone v West Zone Kanpur
15-18 Feb East Zone v Central Zone Bikaner
22-25 Feb South Zone v West Zone Kanpur
22-25 Feb East Zone v Bangaldesh Nagpur
1-4 Mar North Zone v South Zone Indore
1-4 Mar Central Zone v Bangaldesh Jaipur
8-12 Mar Final AT INDORE

DETAIL (http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2004-05/IND_LOCAL/DULEEP/DULEEP_2004-05_SCHEDULE.html)

Edited on, February 4, 2005, 1:29 PM GMT, by moin747.

Ahmed_B
February 4, 2005, 11:10 AM
hmm "Dulip tropy win is better: gets 10 votes..
the two "can't be compared" threads: get 21 votes in total..

probably those 10 ppl on first list r failing to realize the 'Huge moral Boost-up' that a test win(vs. any nation) brings to a newly developing team like BD!

Duleep trophy is a high standard place.. no doubt.. but it surely falls far behind from the point of 'Encrouragement' on the morale of the team compared to the TEST level.

DJ Sahastra
February 4, 2005, 12:33 PM
"My basic understanding is, sending cricket team to Indian pitches will not bring any good/effective experience at all. "

Yes, it is a conspiracy by BCCI to further waste the time of BCB and it's players and malign BD cricket.

Oh wait, maybe it's a deep rooted ill-feeling for BD cricket that prompted BCCI to invite them to play Duleep Trophy. BCCI is basically trying to waste the time of BCB players so that their development is stunted. After all, it's not gonna bring any good/effective experience to BCB players, so it's a conspiracy by BCCI.

We busted another conspiracy :joy::joy:

Goru-E Ghhas Khaye :E:E

Fazal
February 4, 2005, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by DJ Sahastra
We busted another conspiracy :joy::joy:

Goru-E Ghhas Khaye :E:E

Pagole Kina Bole..
Ar Chagole ki na Khaye!

AsifTheManRahman
February 4, 2005, 12:42 PM
completely agree with you DJ...i'll write an official complaint to the BCCI as soon as I get back from lunch.

Optimist
February 4, 2005, 01:11 PM
My two cents............

With this bowling line up, BCB 11 will be hard pressed to win even against Bangladesh U 19's. So, I don't expect them to win any match! But I think it will be a test for our young batsmen! They have not really played the spinners very well. It would be interesting to see how they perform against the Indian spinners in spin friendly conditions.


And as for the poll, I really don't know how these two can even be compared! Is this our national team? Bowling wise it is our third rated team! The test win will always be in the record. But even if we win a Duleep trophy match, who outside of India will give us much credit? Consider the following:

"Bangladesh have lost against Zimbabawe but won the Duleep trophy"

would you be happier?

And, I sincerely thank BCCI and Indian govt. for inviting us.

Bangla Mostan
February 4, 2005, 01:56 PM
this is another learning curve for our young guns...

Imran
February 4, 2005, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by DJ Sahastra
"My basic understanding is, sending cricket team to Indian pitches will not bring any good/effective experience at all. "

Yes, it is a conspiracy by BCCI to further waste the time of BCB and it's players and malign BD cricket.

Oh wait, maybe it's a deep rooted ill-feeling for BD cricket that prompted BCCI to invite them to play Duleep Trophy. BCCI is basically trying to waste the time of BCB players so that their development is stunted. After all, it's not gonna bring any good/effective experience to BCB players, so it's a conspiracy by BCCI.

We busted another conspiracy :joy::joy:

Goru-E Ghhas Khaye :E:E

haha you are something, aren't you?
I am sorry to offend your feeling for your contry's pitch, but among all the test nations, Indian pitch supports spinners most and nothing else.
Players avg talks about it,

Kumble Avg:
Away: 35.76
Home: 22.86!


But again I thank BCCI for inviting us to play as something is always better than nothing.

shujan
February 4, 2005, 08:44 PM
India is an upper ranking test team. IMO India test ranking is second to none but Australia. As a test team India is one Quality Pacer away from Australia. This Duleep trophy looks like a very challenging competition. It brings a twist of championship tournament environment in Test format lengthy 4 day game. Impact of such tournament is evident in Indian National team test performance. This is going to be a very good learning experience for Bangladeshi players.

Different country use different type of pitches. Different pitches bring different challenges. They are challenges nonetheless. A good cricket team should be able to perform in any type of pitch. Bangladesh need to play good in Indian condition. It is silly to say I wanna play in this condition but not in that. Team do not have a choice on that matter.:)

Edited on, February 5, 2005, 1:46 AM GMT, by shujan.

cricketfan
February 6, 2005, 11:54 PM
BCB XI will face East Zone at Nagpur. When Australia last played there, they were quite at home in Nagpur and they actually said so that this looked like an Australian pitch to them.

So, it is not a flat batting track or dustbowl. All the matches that have been played here in last one year have assisted pacers. In the last Ranji Trophy match that was played here in December 2004, Joginder Sharma( who was in the Indian ODI team against BD) had claimed 14 wickets.

DJ Sahastra
February 7, 2005, 02:16 AM
"I am sorry to offend your feeling for your contry's pitch, but among all the test nations, Indian pitch supports spinners most and nothing else."

And what is wrong about having pitches supporting spinners?

Why should we have pitches supporting fast-bowlers, or not supporting spinners, when spinners have brought maximum wins for our country?

In any case, just to correct you, most pitches in India don't support spinners or bowlers at all. They are flat and you really have to be a gifted bowler to make your presence felt.

In my opinion, not sending Mashrafe, Enamul Haque or Nazmul Hussian is a mistake. Bowling on pitches where it takes a combination of talent and mental strength would've helped them ina big way.

As i have noted, BD bowlers lose heart the instant they see no support from the pitch. Test cricket is full of it, and all about it.

cricketfan
February 7, 2005, 02:37 AM
It is incorrect to think that just about any bowler who happens to be a spinner, can succeed in Indian pitches.Look at the record of Shane Warne in India for confirmation. Similarly, it is incorrect to say that fast bowlers cannot succeed in India. They can, and they have in the past.

Toiling hard on unresponsive pitches without losing heart is also part of learning experience.That is a quality which bowlers like Kumble and Ntini possess in abundance and is required to be possessed by any bowler who wants to be succeesful in test matches against top teams.