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fwullah
February 14, 2005, 08:56 AM
I am posting this thread here in the BD cricket section page rather than the International cricket section page, because I have searched the following info looking at Bangladesh's success rate in international cricket, and also keeping the 2-tier system in my mind.

Just look at Zimbabwe's winning pattern.

1. First beat Australia on 1983 World Cup in England

ZIM beat AUS (http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/WORLD_CUPS/WC83/GROUP-B/ZIM_AUS_WC83_ODI3_09JUN1983.html)

2. After a winless world cup 1987 in India-Pakistan, Zimbabwe beat England during world cup 1992 in Australia-New Zealand

ZIM beat ENG (http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/WORLD_CUPS/WC92/LEAGUE/ZIM_ENG_WC92_ODI35_18MAR1992.html)

So far, in the 2 points above, we can see a pattern here. Zimbabwe from the start of their cricket career as a nation usually did well when the conditions are suited to them; and when conditions are unsuitable for them, in India-Pakistan, they could not win a match against any other test nation.

Edited on, February 14, 2005, 1:57 PM GMT, by fwullah.
Reason: Adding scorecard

Edited on, February 14, 2005, 2:25 PM GMT, by fwullah.

fwullah
February 14, 2005, 09:18 AM
3. First Tied match for ZIM vs IND

ZIM vs IND TIED MATCH (http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1993-94/OD_TOURNEYS/CAB/IND_ZIM_CAB_ODI7_18NOV1993.html)

4. ZIM beat ENG again for the 2nd time during 1994 Benson & Hedges Series again in Australia

ZIM bt ENG 2nd time (http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1994-95/OD_TOURNEYS/WSC/ZIM_ENG_WSC_ODI8_15DEC1994.html)

5. Zimbabwe beat New Zealand for the first time ever in ODIs in New Zealand

ZIM bt NZ (http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1995-96/ZIM_IN_NZ/ZIM_NZ_ODI3_03FEB1996.html)

6. Zimbabwe for the first time ever, beat Sri Lanka in Sharjah in 1997

ZIM bt SL (http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1996-97/OD_TOURNEYS/SAKAI/SL_ZIM_SAKAI_ODI5_08APR1997.html)

7. In 1997, in South Africa, Zimbabwe at first tied yet another ODI match with India, then eventually won their first ever ODI win over India the 2nd time when they meet against each other in the same tournament in a rain reduced match

ZIM vs IND Tied Match (http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1996-97/OD_TOURNEYS/SBIODS/IND_ZIM_SBIODS_ODI3_27JAN1997.html)

ZIM bt IND by run rate (http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1996-97/OD_TOURNEYS/SBIODS/IND_ZIM_SBIODS_ODI8_07FEB1997.html)

fwullah
February 14, 2005, 09:30 AM
After watching the first ever wins over different test playing nations for Zimbabwe, I am now finding it interesting to see when and how and against which opponents Sri Lanka's first few wins came.

1. 1979 World Cup SL beat IND - probably Sri Lanka's first ever ODI win against any team

SL beat IND (http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/WORLD_CUPS/WC79/SL_IND_WC79_ODI9_16-18JUN1979.html)

2. SL's 2nd ODI win over a test playing nation - England at home

SL beat ENG (http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1980S/1981-82/ENG_IN_SL/ENG_SL_ODI2_14FEB1982.html)

fwullah
February 14, 2005, 09:46 AM
3. SL beat Pakistan in Pakistan during 1982

SL bt PAK (http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1980S/1981-82/SL_IN_PAK/SL_PAK_ODI2_29MAR1982.html)

4. SL beat Australia in an ODI series at home 1983

SL bt AUS (http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1980S/1982-83/AUS_IN_SL/AUS_SL_ODI1_13APR1983.html)

SL bt Aus & leading the series 2-0 (http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1980S/1982-83/AUS_IN_SL/AUS_SL_ODI2_16APR1983.html)

5. SL beat NZ for the first time during 1983 World Cup in Eng

SL bt NZ (http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/WORLD_CUPS/WC83/GROUP-A/NZ_SL_WC83_ODI18_18JUN1983.html)

6. SL beat Pakistan 2nd time during 1984 Asia Cup

SL bt PAK (http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1980S/1983-84/OD_TOURNEYS/ASIA/PAK_SL_ASIA_ODI1_06APR1984.html)

7. SL beat NZ 2nd time at home during 1984

SL bt NZ (http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1980S/1983-84/NZ_IN_SL/NZ_SL_ODI2_31MAR1984.html)

shujan
February 14, 2005, 12:44 PM
Interesting Stat! Srilanka got hot in 1984. First win was in 1979. Second win came after 5 years.

AsifTheManRahman
February 14, 2005, 02:36 PM
so what's your point? :)

billah
February 14, 2005, 02:46 PM
I think fw is saying that there is no particular advantage for a "weak" team to play only at home.

As a matter of fact, until the recent Zimbabwe series, our away record was better than home.

babubangla
February 14, 2005, 05:27 PM
I think 2-tier system was mainly based on test performances of weaker teams. But this stats only focuses on ODI.

islam
February 15, 2005, 04:59 AM
Except for the bd vs zim serise (zim can't match it against test playing nations) at home, bd have played better away than at home. Test serises against WI and pakistan and the 99' world cup. Home ground adt has no relivance to us. When we play well we have a chance, when we play poorly we get thrashed-Its as simple as that.

The zim side of early/mid 90's is a much better side than the current bd team, most if not all players averged in the 30's or 40's in test cricket (we have one). That zim team could have beaten any nation on a single given day, as it showed on many occations. (ODI).

Srilanka also had a sound team when they started winning, they managed to grow players who were adept to playing in the subcontnent, something we haven't done so far.

I see some good points with the 2-Teir system. where the top 5 test playing nations play each other and the bottom 5 will play each other. The 6th and 7th team willplay against each other at the end of the year for the right to play in the top tier. But if that were to go ahead England (ranked 2) and South Africa (ranked 6th) would not have played the extermly close 2-1 (5 test serise against each other).
The 2 tier system wont affect the ODI's but will inhibit the top teams to play the bottom tiered teams since they won't tour there.
meaing S.A 4-1 thrasingof england would not have occured.

What i think is to not let the major teams play teams like bd and zim and get rid of the system where each team must play each other home/away before a world cup and allow the bottom 5/6 teams to play each other more often and every so often play against a higher ranked nation.

fwullah
February 15, 2005, 06:33 AM
After reading the first few posts regarding the first few wins of Zimbabwe and Sri Lanka, how does Bangladesh's record sound? You must remember that Bangladesh got ODI status during 1998 and the first 12 ODIs of Bangladesh were played over a span of a decade - from 1986 to 1995 (something like that) and then during 2000 (as we all know) we got the test status. And after the first couple of years of gaining test status, that we really started to play well in ODIs...

1. Our maiden win over Kenya 1998

2. Our 2nd win and first win in a world cup 1999 against Scotland

3. Our major win over a test playing nation world cup 1999 against Pakistan

4. After nearly 5 years of draught, we got our ODI win over a second test playing nation - Zimbabwe during 2004 January

5. At the end of the year 2004, we had beaten India - the 2nd big team of the test playing nations

6. We won our first test & ODI series against a very young and inexperienced Zimbabwe side, as well as won our first test match

fwullah
February 15, 2005, 06:39 AM
BD win over Kenya (http://www.cricketarchive.co.uk/Archive/Scorecards/a/11/a11177.html)

BD win over Scotland (http://www.cricketarchive.co.uk/Archive/Scorecards/a/11/a11936.html)

BD win over Pakistan (http://www.cricketarchive.co.uk/Archive/Scorecards/a/11/a11947.html)

BD win over Zimbabwe (http://www.cricketarchive.co.uk/Archive/Scorecards/a/15/a15797.html)

BD win over India (http://www.cricketarchive.co.uk/Archive/Scorecards/a/16/a16278.html)

One important thing that I noted of Zimbabwe and Bangladesh is that the difference between winning margins is very similar - while Bangladesh won against Zimbabwe and India with a victory margin of just around 10 or 15 runs, Zimbabwe have also won against other nations in the similar victory margins. Besides, some of the matches Zimbabwe had either tied or lost very closely to other test nations. Recently, Bangladesh have also shown the same trend. There were quite a few matches that the losing margins were very close, especially during our last tours to Pakistan and West Indies.

PoorFan
February 15, 2005, 06:47 AM
Well, just wait and see till the end of this year, couple of wins against
other test nations are there for us I am sure.

islam
February 15, 2005, 07:24 AM
fwullah: Winning margin doesn't matter, its the teams you beat with that margin which is the key. A win is a win and a loss is a loss.

Our best win was agianst Pak in the world cup where pakistan were a very fancied team to win the WC.
Wins against kenya, scotland, zim we were expected to win. Win against India, who are ranked in the bottom 5 ODI teams currently and didn't feild a strong lineup means nothing in the grand scheme of things. The last ODI game between bd and India showed the gap in class between bd and the 8th ranked ODI team.

While on the other hand Zim beat ENgland, Australia in their early days of winning mathches. There is a huge differece in that fact since both ENgland and Aus were decent nations around that era, (no WI but decent).


Our big test will come in england were we play the 7th best ODi team and AUstralia the best. We would like to show good from against england if possiable and build on that with a win later in the year, if we can even start to be comparied with early WINNING teams from zim.

Ahmed_B
February 15, 2005, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by islam
fwullah: Winning margin doesn't matter, its the teams you beat with that margin which is the key. A win is a win and a loss is a loss.
What u r saying is correct if u talk in terms of Statistics.

But it is not correct if u want a performane evaluation. In terms of performance, a defeat by 85 runs and a defeat by 15 runs (likewise: a defeat by 8 wickets vs. a defeat by 1 wicket) are totally diffetent things...even though they have exactly the same (negative) value in the ranking chart!

Stats always dont tell the full story!

Originally posted by shujan
Interesting Stat! Srilanka got hot in 1984. First win was in 1979. Second win came after 5 years.
hmm.. that stat sounds somewhat like BD.... remain winless for several years after the first considerable ODI win vs. Paks in World cup.

fwullah
February 15, 2005, 10:28 AM
that stat sounds somewhat like BD.... remain winless for several years after the first considerable ODI win vs. Paks in World cup.


This is exactly why I have brought about Sri Lanka as an example. I am not intending to undermine Sri Lanka's achievements; rather what I'm trying to say is that it takes a little while for the Asian teams to come up.

I'm making a new thread on this 'Asian team' concept.