PDA

View Full Version : Hoggard's view


mwrkhan
February 17, 2005, 04:51 PM
It seems at least one person in England knows that BD won a test recently.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/4271545.stmlink (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/4271545.stm)

couger
February 17, 2005, 06:10 PM
Why wouldn't he know about BD winning a test? NOT knowing would be ignorant.

Sham
February 17, 2005, 06:14 PM
mwrkhan, you will find that current players will always speak with caution when it comes to upcoming series' because they don't want their words to come back and bite them. A player will never say, yeah we will thrash Bangladesh. They will always say something like, yeah Bangladesh will be competitive but we expect to win. Its always the former players who say stuff like we'll beat them within a day etc.

bdboy
February 17, 2005, 07:53 PM
I think every player should know that bangladesh won test. They are very professional and they do lots of analysis sort of things (match video, other report etc) on their opp whoever it is. AUS or BD does not matter to an truly professional side.

deshibhai
February 17, 2005, 10:13 PM
If I were an England player or fan, I would be pretty ticked off about having to play Bangladesh right before going to Australia for the Ashes. It is a bit like Bangladesh preparing for the World Cup by playing Namibia...and we all know the result of that. My guess is that if someone put together the numbers, he would find that the chances of victory in a series are substantially improved by playing a very good team just before and substantially reduced by playing a very weak team just before. A case in point is our playing Australia just before touring Pakistan and playing India just before hosting Zimbabwe.

couger
February 17, 2005, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by deshibhai
If I were an England player or fan, I would be pretty ticked off about having to play Bangladesh right before going to Australia for the Ashes. It is a bit like Bangladesh preparing for the World Cup by playing Namibia...and we all know the result of that. My guess is that if someone put together the numbers, he would find that the chances of victory in a series are substantially improved by playing a very good team just before and substantially reduced by playing a very weak team just before. A case in point is our playing Australia just before touring Pakistan and playing India just before hosting Zimbabwe.

I don't disagree with your conclusion of playing stronger teams makes you a better side. But your comparisom of BD playing Namibia and England playing BD is totally off kilter. Namibians are basically holiday cricketers and simply cannot compare Bangladesh with themin any shape or form.

deshibhai
February 17, 2005, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by couger
Originally posted by deshibhai
If I were an England player or fan, I would be pretty ticked off about having to play Bangladesh right before going to Australia for the Ashes. It is a bit like Bangladesh preparing for the World Cup by playing Namibia...and we all know the result of that. My guess is that if someone put together the numbers, he would find that the chances of victory in a series are substantially improved by playing a very good team just before and substantially reduced by playing a very weak team just before. A case in point is our playing Australia just before touring Pakistan and playing India just before hosting Zimbabwe.

I don't disagree with your conclusion of playing stronger teams makes you a better side. But your comparisom of BD playing Namibia and England playing BD is totally off kilter. Namibians are basically holiday cricketers and simply cannot compare Bangladesh with themin any shape or form.

hmmm...i don't think i was trying hard to make sure the comparison was exactly "to scale". Still, if I were asked to comment on the matter, I am not sure I would be as convinced as you about the complete lack of symmetry in the comparison. While I wouldn't disagree that our cricket is at an altogether different level than that of Namibia, we did have an unconvincing warm-up tour of Namibia in 2004. On the other hand, while I would like to believe that the English team is not head and shoulders above our own, I have the nagging suspicion that that is wishful thinking. A completely symmetric comparison this may not be, but I don't think it is an altogether outrageous one either. :)

shujan
February 18, 2005, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by deshibhai
If I were an England player or fan, I would be pretty ticked off about having to play Bangladesh right before going to Australia for the Ashes. It is a bit like Bangladesh preparing for the World Cup by playing Namibia...and we all know the result of that. My guess is that if someone put together the numbers, he would find that the chances of victory in a series are substantially improved by playing a very good team just before and substantially reduced by playing a very weak team just before. A case in point is our playing Australia just before touring Pakistan and playing India just before hosting Zimbabwe.

This is hogwash! I hope England think like you do. It will be easy for Bangladesh then.

Sham
February 18, 2005, 12:38 AM
If Deshi were to say, its like Bangladesh going on a tour of Namibia before going on a tour of South Africa, it would actually be 'to scale' as well. The difference between Namibia and South Africa is about the difference between Bangladesh and Australia. England would rather have played a team like Pakistan before going into the Ashes, a team they are expected to beat but one that would give them a good deal of competition, atleast in the form of their pacers and Inzamam. Truth of the matter is, playing against Bangladesh is pretty poor practice before taking on the Aussies. No matter how much I love my team, that is quite beyond doubt!

On the flip side, England probably would not mind a series that will not make them sweat all that much (atleast thats what they must be figuring although I hope we prove them wrong) but at the same time, get some good match practice. They wouldn't want to waste too much energy and effort before the Ashes. They will want to be fairly fresh!

Ahmed_B
February 18, 2005, 01:09 AM
"They will be dogged in their batting but hopefully we'll have wickets that are quite quick and go through a bit to give us a chance of bowling them out twice.

I'm sure we're very capable of doing that and getting everybody into some sort of form before the first Ashes Test."

....this may giv an idea about their expectations from BD batting side.

Edited on, February 18, 2005, 6:40 AM GMT, by crickethorizon.

couger
February 18, 2005, 01:46 AM
[i]
hmmm...i don't think i was trying hard to make sure the comparison was exactly "to scale". Still, if I were asked to comment on the matter, I am not sure I would be as convinced as you about the complete lack of symmetry in the comparison. While I wouldn't disagree that our cricket is at an altogether different level than that of Namibia, we did have an unconvincing warm-up tour of Namibia in 2004. On the other hand, while I would like to believe that the English team is not head and shoulders above our own, I have the nagging suspicion that that is wishful thinking. A completely symmetric comparison this may not be, but I don't think it is an altogether outrageous one either. :)

Wasn't that warm match with Namibia take palce in 2003, pre-Whatmore era, before the World Cup? You'll agree that Bangladesh is a much much improved side. This comparison won't hold water today. And we're not talking about Symmetry here.

About wishful thinking, I'm not suggesting England will roll over and play dead against us but you'll remember that Bangladesh did stay competative in the first 2 1/2 days of the first test Against England in 2004. Since then England pretty much remained in the same level while BD improved. If you go by that login then we have a chance to stay competative.

Professional athletes will find motivation in any form. To suggest that playing Bangladesh before Australia will affect England's game negatively is an unfair analysis. Unfair to England and to Bangladesh.

couger
February 18, 2005, 01:50 AM
Did BD play Namibia before touring South Africa...I may not have put the correct info on my previous post.

Sham
February 18, 2005, 02:24 AM
No, you were right, BD played Namibia before the WC. I was just providing a hypothetical situation with Namibia before South Africa. Also, the comparision is not between Bangladesh and Namibia. Its really between Namibia and South Africa lets say, and Bangladesh and Australia. The difference between those sides in each set is similar.

Also, I don't agree that England has stayed the same since their tour of BD. Strauss coming in to open and Vaughan going into the middle order has made England's batting far more formidable. Also, don't forget that this time we will be playing in England and not in Bangladesh, and that is a considerable advantage in their favour. Their bowlers will really test our batsmen and we will have to be at our very best to stay competitive!

But you are right about professionals playing at their best no matter who the opposition is. England will try to be a methodical and disciplined outfit and see us off as best as possible. However, the fact remains, playing Australia after Bangladesh will require a huge step up for them if they want to have any chance of winning back the Ashes!

deshibhai
February 18, 2005, 02:52 AM
Bangladesh played Namibia before their tour of Zimbabwe in 2004...i.e. post-Whatmore era. We won a one-day match by 6 runs. The three day match ended in a draw. At one point, we were 75-5 or something of that sort in the 3-day match. Thus my comment about an unconvincing tour. Whatever the results, I think it is fair to say that our record against teams that we consider far beneath ourselves has been far from convincing.

With regard to making England sweat up to the level at which they would need to be playing against Australia, no one would be happier than myself if Bangladesh were able to pull that off. Heck, in my dreams, I'll even dream about demoralizing the English with a defeat right before the Ashes. I suppose the many years of following our cricket team have taught me to separate dream from expectation. On the other hand, those things that people only dare to dream about are converted into reality by great men. And if our cricketers are able to pull off a win (or two?) in England, I will be the first to raise them on a pedestal and celebrate them for achieving the unprecedented.

Edited on, February 18, 2005, 8:13 AM GMT, by deshibhai.

fwullah
February 18, 2005, 03:52 AM
Bangladesh played Namibia before their tour of Zimbabwe in 2004...


That is the exactly the point - just remember, we played the 2 tests in between, where we did very poorly - considering our expectation of winning a test match (and that, against a full strength Zimbabwe team at the time).

And as per Sham has suggested, if the difference between SA and Namibia are similar to Australia and Bangladesh; then may I suggest that the difference between Namibia and that Zimbabwe team was similar to the difference between Bangladesh and England team right now?

Don't forget, that same Zimbabwe team had scored over 300 runs against almost the same Namibian team during the world cup 2003, which includes one mamooth 170 odd runs in an ODI by Craig Whishart of Zimbabwe - opening (Just trying to remind their difference).