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fwullah
March 27, 2005, 01:05 PM
But I'm still gonna say it anyways since its a free country (a free world, rather) and the forum is a spokesman for 'freedom, justice & the American way' (please correct me if I'm wrong)

I'm voting for a return of Khaled Mahmud Sujon (or Chacha if you may call him that) in the test arena - just for these coming up 2 test matches. ;)

What do you say to that?

Akib
March 27, 2005, 01:17 PM
If he comes in who should he replace......


Also he isnt that good of a test player.

Batting:12
Bowling: 64

In my opinion i dont think he should come back.

Sham
March 27, 2005, 01:41 PM
Me neither!

Zephaniah
March 27, 2005, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by fwullah
But I'm still gonna say it anyways since its a free country (a free world, rather) and the forum is a spokesman for 'freedom, justice & the American way' (please correct me if I'm wrong)

I'm voting for a return of Khaled Mahmud Sujon (or Chacha if you may call him that) in the test arena

What do you say to that?

Well, I see no problem with 'return of Khaled Mahmud Sujon (or Chacha if you may call him that) in the test arena' - as a member of spectator, only !

Huda
March 27, 2005, 01:53 PM
the american way stinks and so does chacha

chinaman
March 27, 2005, 01:59 PM
If the selectors still see his potential and usefulness, he might find his way to the English pitch. He has been deceiving us with his performance for a long while. Just when we thought that he was done - he came up big yet again. I don't know.

All I know is that I wouldn't be surpised if he makes it this time. So keep your hope alive fwullah :)

Yameen
March 27, 2005, 01:59 PM
Huda I agree, and anyway, what the hell do Yanks know about cricket???? LOL

TigerFan
March 27, 2005, 02:15 PM
i see your point FUllah

Sorry
March 27, 2005, 03:00 PM
have you just watched a 'bangla movie' and dreaming about its story?
anyway what's the name of that movie? .... is it 'return of shaheen shah'?

chyicarus
March 27, 2005, 04:01 PM
fwullah, your decision is based only on his currect NCL performances. In such matter you have to take into account, the pitch and the weather conditions and also the quality of opposition etc etc.
So judging by all those- I don't think including him into the Test squad would be such a good idea. He's more useful in the one-day side and i think thats where he should be aiming for.
And making such a statement isn't the only solution- like "aka" said, and I quote, "who should he replace?"

cricketboy
March 27, 2005, 04:27 PM
Mashrafe is a better batsman than chacha and Aftab a better bowler than him! :P
I think Sujon's test career is finished but he may be useful for one-day matches.Fwullah do u believe Sujon take take 2 wickets in a test match or score a fifty?
:fanflag:

Tehsin
March 27, 2005, 05:13 PM
Chyicarus and cricketboy beat me to this:

Apart from what cricketboy said, didn't we just see 8 centuries in one round in the NCL ? Excellent testimonial of the 'quality' of NCL. I don't think anyone in the right mind would suggest relying on NCL performance for national selection.

Navarene
March 27, 2005, 05:30 PM
...where love ends, hate begins:(

Mahmood
March 27, 2005, 06:27 PM
I have began to think if he has no room in ODI any more, since the final ODI against Zimbabwe found him not needed...

And now you vote to bring him in tests? Let me guess... trying out LSD?

Zephaniah
March 27, 2005, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by Rajputro
I have began to think if he has no room in ODI any more, since the final ODI against Zimbabwe found him not needed...

And now you vote to bring him in tests? Let me guess... trying out LSD?

Well, I believe he still has a role to play in ODIs. Specially in England.

shovon13
March 27, 2005, 07:21 PM
i think he'll get whacked in the ODIs by the english batsmen. even if he gets wickets, those will probably in the slog overs when the batsmen are trying to score big, and will have little impact on england's total score. it doesn't matter if you get swing off the pitch if you dont have enough pace to beat the bat with it. and we definitely have better batsmen than chacha competiting for a spot in the team.

so...i agree with rajputro. chacha should be discarded out of both teams.

Edited on, March 28, 2005, 9:40 AM GMT, by shovon13.
Reason: didn't notice i was agreeing with rajputro too many times :\

fwullah
March 27, 2005, 11:00 PM
Well, when I posted this, Sujon's performance in the NCL with the bat did not influence me hugely, but I must say that it did influence me a little bit.

However (a big BUT = kintu) Sujon's experience with the ball may come in handy and there is a remote possibility that after the test series over, and after a couple of ODI matches, after watching some good performance of Sujon with the ball in those matchbes against the likes of England & Australia - we may resent not having Sujon in the test series.

It is solely based on my idea of Sujon's bowling + English conditions = much better performance with the ball.

Anyways, let me 'rephrase' the question again -

Can Sujon stand a chance as a stand-by player for tests if either of Mashrafee/Tapash/Nazmul/Rajib is injured or something during the course of the tour?

Sham
March 27, 2005, 11:12 PM
Here is the distinction I make: Is Shujon a front-line bowler or is he a support bowler? In my opinion, he deserves consideration as a support bowler, not a front-line bowler. A front-line bowler for me are the two openers and the first change seamer. In my opinion, those three should have the ability to bowl at pace and extract some bounce in England so that they are able to utilize the swing.

As for Mahmud, he is a support bowler and as such, fights for Aftab's place as he is the other support bowler. In a head-to-head, I think most will agree that Aftab wins because of his superior batting ability. Putting Mahmud into bat at number 6 is too risky in my opinion because if he doesn't come off (and NCL performance is not a good indicator here), our batting line-up will be too weak! We need all the help with the batting that we can get, hence my repeated cries for 6 specialist batsmen.

In the ODIs however, Mahmud is very valuable. He will swing the ball and vary the pace and will trouble the batsman because it won't be easy to get him away. He might even get a lot of wickets. He is for us what Gavin Larson was for the New Zealand team for a long time. However, there will be no reason to regret not taking him in the Tests because he will do well in the ODIs. In Test cricket, the batsmen can stand there and block him all day long. At his pace, he is unlikely to trouble them too much. However, in ODIs, they will have to go after him and that will cause them trouble.

So, bottom line: ODIs - YES, Tests - NO!

PoorFan
March 27, 2005, 11:15 PM
Why try to bring someone who is in process of packing.
And why try to replace someone who is in process of settle in.
Will he bring something significant to our team instead of new one.
If not, then why should we go for old one.

Rubu
March 28, 2005, 12:30 AM
fw, reading at the title i instantly thought you are gonna bring in another shahidul azam's column about whatmore. thanks god, its only chacha.

we'll there is not anything to talk about. the biggest problem in bringing in chacha in test squad is that (as mentioned before) anyone who he'll be replacing is more useful than he is.

Beamer
March 28, 2005, 12:31 AM
Yehh..what a great idea. While we at it, lets make him the captain again. This is a brilliant idea.

Beamer
March 28, 2005, 12:44 AM
Why stop there with chacha. lets bring back all the other half-baked pansies in the test team. Mushfiq babu, Rana, Tareq Aziz, Shanto..ora ki dosh korlo?

chyicarus
March 28, 2005, 12:45 AM
After reading your rephrased question my answer/opinion is still NO!

couger
March 28, 2005, 01:25 AM
I would love to see Kaled Mahmud come back and then go out(retiring) with a bang----ending all future speculations about his inclusion.

Fazal
March 28, 2005, 01:35 AM
<b>>> You're all gonna hate me for this...</b>

I love this....fans of ChaCha are so cornered and defensive in this board that now they have to start with this kind of neutralizer quotes like that to propose ChaCha's name as if its a crime to mention ChaCha's name in this msg board

:great::great::great:

As for me, I wouldn't mind if ChaCha is either included or excluded from this series. However, I believe ChaCha deserve a serious consideration for this series though based on past and present contribution and form.




Edited on, March 28, 2005, 6:39 AM GMT, by Fazal.

Shehwar
March 28, 2005, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by fwullah
But I'm still gonna say it anyways since its a free country (a free world, rather) and the forum is a spokesman for 'freedom, justice & the American way' (please correct me if I'm wrong)

I'm voting for a return of Khaled Mahmud Sujon (or Chacha if you may call him that) in the test arena - just for these coming up 2 test matches. ;)

What do you say to that?

Yeah! Fwullah for PRESIDENT!!
Trust me I will be the last person to hate u after this!....Chacha shud be absolutely ideal for English conditions....cheers...

Edited on, March 28, 2005, 6:54 AM GMT, by Shehwar.

Red Cherry
March 28, 2005, 01:56 AM
Recently we had a poll on this topic (Performance of of K Mahmood Shujon) and he was out of favor by 43%/57% (Total of 35 respondent). This was despite his recent form which was highlighted while triggering the poll. Since then Chacha has continued on his merry form. Probably it has not gone unnoticed by the selectors as they are planning to have same team for test and one day which means Chacha in the test team.

al
March 28, 2005, 03:51 AM
I would not hate anybody for including k. mahmud in ODI squad.

Daddy_Mac
March 28, 2005, 04:08 AM
I don't find any hate after reading this?
Whats there to hate?
If Cha-cha comes to the Bangladesh test team then who is goint to give him a place?

James90
March 28, 2005, 04:38 AM
Mahmud is hardly holding onto a one-day place. He's never performed with the bat and I was glad that Bangladesh were getting over the allrounder idea. I feel he has a role to play in England for the NatWest Series. It might be an idea to take him on tour so he gets match practise in English conditions but who would you drop for him? Tapash? Enamul?

babon
March 28, 2005, 05:16 AM
Originally posted by Rajputro
I have began to think if he has no room in ODI any more, since the final ODI against Zimbabwe found him not needed...

And now you vote to bring him in tests? Let me guess... trying out LSD?
I am the biggest chacha fan still i believe he must not get chance in test side although he performed really well in NL this season.But although he did not play in the last match against zim, he performed really weel against india and zim and was looking only bowler who could take wickets.

Ahmed_B
March 28, 2005, 05:41 AM
being bit tricky out here fw... haa?
wel lemme ask u something back...:"But why?"

Coz u hav said he shud be back.... but hav given absolutely no clue to why u think so..
Just checking the atmosphere for/against him?? :)

wel... just some thoughts on it:

His (Bowling) prospects in English conditions
I agree and I really do think he will be very effective out there. But problem is with his batting. And because we need as strong a batting side as possible... he falls behind some others from that point.

His recent NCL scores
He did well... no doubt. But so did everyone else in this NCL, mostly because the wickets were made highly batting-friendly (that was Bashar's final remarks after the 6th round ended) and the bowling oppositions were also far weaker in standard. These scores aren't probably good enough to get him back as a batsman in the team.

Just another thing about Test bowling
As I felt so far... Bowlers(both Spinners & Pacers) with good variation in their bowling do much better than bowlers who are consistant only but not able to make the batsman think about every ball. Because opposition batsmen are out there with limitless patience and endless time and 'Predictable' bowling cannot disturb their concentration. This is where bowlers like Mahmud or Rana have great disadvantage IMO.



Edited on, March 28, 2005, 10:52 AM GMT, by crickethorizon.

Ejaj
March 28, 2005, 06:50 AM
haha.. pretty long discussions among all kinds of fans. In my personal opinion, I think. Chacha is still not finished and.. I think. he would be able to do much more damage against opposition if the condition is English. He is a natural swing bowler, but lacks pace. Though he is consistant in line and length and the most valuable factor regarding Shujon is that he is actually a great fighter. So.. He will be a must in my ODI team. In test team.. i guess.. we need one more batsman than an alrounder. So.. even if he qualifies to play in the test team.. for the sake of the team.. I would be taking a specialist batsman than him.

cricket_pagol
March 28, 2005, 07:37 AM
I am not really a bg fan of Chacha... but i am impressed by his recent performance in the NCL. We are all saying that are better batsmens then chacha and there are better bowlers than chacha in NCL... but in reality Chacha is hitting the news very day with his stellar performance while other star players are struggling to perform consistently. I do agree that NCL is not a good indicator for the players class... but if players cannot perform well in the NCL then how are they gonna succeed in England.

It is very difficult to fit in chacha in the test team because the four bowling slots should be taken Rafique, Masri, taposh and Enamul (if we decide to play two spinners)... I am curious to see what the selectors do!!!!!

akabir77
March 28, 2005, 08:25 AM
Recent performance or not if anyone remembered his performance from the wc (in eng) should try him out atleast in the warmups.. by the way before that wc there was a big shout like now that chacha is gone and etc but he fired back in england and those who r saying english batsmen will kill him to them at that wc his pace was as fast as now, so why couldn't they kill him at that time? oh probablly u all were too young to remember???:D....
I say try him out in the warm ups and then decide....

Edited on, March 28, 2005, 1:27 PM GMT, by akabir77.

Mahmood
March 28, 2005, 09:41 AM
Well, Chacha is very well connected. No matter how many of us think his days in ODI is over, he will be in the team, untill he makes a official glorious retirement.

fwullah
March 28, 2005, 09:45 AM
Well, in the final eleven, we won't like if there is any change apart from the following:

1. Javed
2. Shahriar Nafees/Nafees Iqbal (due to Iqbal's injury problem)
3. Bashar
4. Rajin
5. Ashraful
6. Aftab
7. Mashud (wk)
8. Rafique
9. Mashrafee
10. Tapash
11. Shahadat Rajib
12. Nazmul

But what about the places after that? -

13. Enamul Haque Junior - a recent star and proved all his critics' wrong about his ability as the best left arm spinner of Bangladesh after Rafique (at least in tests)

14. Monjurul Islam Rana - with bowling alone, he doesn't stand a chance to get into the team - but, he can replace any batsman at any position - be it in the opening or in the middle order, if we are having that kind of bad luck (Rajin getting injured, or Javed getting injured - Allah na koruk)

This is done on the basis of taking total 14 players into our test team. But what if we take 15 players, what would be the team like, then? The selectors (I mean Faruque mainly) has said this that he does not want to break a winning combination, so the place of the above 2 players is almost certain in the team, but what about the 15th player if there is any chance?

Here, Sujon comes in. At first, he may not be in the final eleven, but if either of our four pace bowlers (Tapash, Mashrafee, Nazmul & Rajib) gets injured, then we need a back-up pace bowler and Sujon is the ideal player for that.

Now - here is another thing, just think if it would be wise to play Enamul Junior in the final eleven of the tests, along with Rafique. I'm sure that most of you will disagree, unless (here - more bad luck again) Rafique gets injured or something, then Enamul Junior will be our best back-up spin bowler.

Now think, who would you pick keeping the English conditions in mind?



Just another thing about Test bowling
As I felt so far... Bowlers(both Spinners & Pacers) with good variation in their bowling do much better than bowlers who are consistant only but not able to make the batsman think about every ball. Because opposition batsmen are out there with limitless patience and endless time and 'Predictable' bowling cannot disturb their concentration. This is where bowlers like Mahmud or Rana have great disadvantage IMO.


This is exactly why I want to include Sujon in MY team, anyway. Because after Mashrafee & Tapash - do we know much about Nazmul or Rajib's capability as a thinking pace bowler? Ofcourse, I don't know anything about Shahadat Hossain Rajib, except that he is a 'fast' bowler.

fwullah
March 28, 2005, 09:48 AM
Recent performance or not if anyone remembered his performance from the wc (in eng) should try him out atleast in the warmups.. by the way before that wc there was a big shout like now that chacha is gone and etc but he fired back in england and those who r saying english batsmen will kill him to them at that wc his pace was as fast as now, so why couldn't they kill him at that time? oh probablly u all were too young to remember???


AGREED :karate:

cricket_pagla
March 28, 2005, 12:14 PM
:cool2: Cha-Cha ki Minhazjul Abedin er moto return korbe?...:info:

AsifTheManRahman
March 28, 2005, 01:02 PM
i dont hate you fahmida...i think chacha should be given a shot in at least a couple of the practice matches. if i were in charge i'd hold the door to the test team open for him if he did well in those.

Hasib
March 28, 2005, 05:47 PM
Some ppl r saying no with out an expination... just being overly emotional...

anyway...i think we shud play in some practise matches and see how e goes in those.

James90
March 28, 2005, 07:15 PM
Why would Shahadat make the XI and not Nazmul? Nazmul has proven himself in international cricket, taking 4 wickets against New Zealand. Whenever Shahadat's had an opportunity against a touring test side or in a big match he's failed. I don't think England would be any different.

AsifTheManRahman
March 29, 2005, 12:24 PM
actually, chacha doesn't necessarily have to take anyone else's place in the test team. we do have a vacancy right now (if we're playing one spinner), and i really hope he does something in the practice matches in england that will indicate that he may as well do the same for the national team under similar conditions. if all goes well, he may fill the 7th batting position as well as that for the much needed third medium pacer.

Tokai
March 29, 2005, 01:57 PM
amaro akkhan chacha asay, naam hoila, solimuddi chacha, orao ki teste nibenni?

BD Tigers
March 29, 2005, 04:30 PM
Since Chacha is playing so well in NCL consistently, he ought to have a chance to prove himself. But he needs to do that in the warmup in ENG and if he does well, then we can always think twice.

To the chacha haters, u cannot put a fighter down, he will always come back until he is in peace with himself. I think he's playing so well just to prove all the haters wrong.

Go Chacha :fire:

cricketboy
March 29, 2005, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by couger
I would love to see Kaled Mahmud come back and then go out(retiring) with a bang----ending all future speculations about his inclusion.

In test cricket! :P I dont think thats ever going to happen.

BD Tigers
March 30, 2005, 01:32 PM
yes, he might cause he is in preliminary 20 squad. there is a very good chance he might end up in the warm up match and after that who knows....

die hard fan of Chacha

Beamer
March 30, 2005, 03:21 PM
Playing Chacha in the practice matches will not prove anything. He is a known commodity and we all know what he can and can't do. He has no chance to be in the test team and playing him in the practice matches will only deprive a younger bowler to gather valuable experinece for the future. It serves no purpose.

akabir77
March 30, 2005, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by Beamer
Playing Chacha in the practice matches will not prove anything. He is a known commodity and we all know what he can and can't do.

Yeah really.. if he is that know we would think twice but looks like some of us beg to differ and some people thinks other wise..

He has no chance to be in the test team and playing him in the practice matches will only deprive a younger bowler to gather valuable experinece for the future. It serves no purpose.

You rank exp then to win /draw a match

Edited on, March 30, 2005, 8:37 PM GMT, by akabir77.

Beamer
March 30, 2005, 04:06 PM
Oh really! I suppose he is a match winner! If you are thinking about world cup, I suggest you wake up, that was six/seven years ago.

Its not only me but other sane people alike think that as well. I am glad Whatmore and Faruk realized it and they dumped him from the test squad. He was an unwelcome burden. He is not even a sure item in the one dayers. Have you noticed the Zim ODI series lately? Did he play the later games?

At this point of his career, Yes I rank experience for a young Nazmul and Shahadat to be more valuable than playing Chacha in a game. In all probability Chacha won't be around next time we travel to England or NZ ( seaming conditions ), Nazmul and Shahadat will. Our long term interest should dictate playing positions in some warm ups.
If you think that Chacha will win us matches, then please remain sleeping and don't ley anyone interupt your sleep.

Its a bad investment with no sign of dividends. You only invest in a known bankrupt company at your own peril!

akabir77
March 30, 2005, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by Beamer
Oh really! I suppose he is a match winner! If you are thinking about world cup, I suggest you wake up, that was six/seven years ago.

People like u said before that WC that he is not a match winner and i know in most places he is not but he is a diff plyr in england that's why we got the win against pak and the test status and ....


Its not only me but other sane people alike think that as well. I am glad Whatmore and Faruk realized it and they dumped him from the test squad. He was an unwelcome burden. He is not even a sure item in the one dayers. Have you noticed the Zim ODI series lately? Did he play the later games?

That means there r supporters of both ideas so ??? i don't understand "not plying" one game in one condition means out for life??? that happens to rana, use to to rafiq a lot.

and about zim series that was a good decision cause he is not that effective in bd condition but if one have seen him play in eng then i would suggest one to wake up and see what others r watching, i guess people can't show anything to a blind....


At this point of his career, Yes I rank experience for a young Nazmul and Shahadat to be more valuable than playing Chacha in a game. In all probability Chacha won't be around next time we travel to England or NZ ( seaming conditions ), Nazmul and Shahadat will. Our long term interest should dictate playing positions in some warm ups.
If you think that Chacha will win us matches, then please remain sleeping and don't ley anyone interupt your sleep.

Its a bad investment with no sign of dividends. You only invest in a known bankrupt company at your own peril!
Thanks for your opinion, you have a strong point but like i said if we can use him then do it, cause people can also see him in the BD practices(in eng) and then decide (whether to include him in the practice match)

We all invested our emotion time here and may be r too optimistic as he did good once there... and i truly believe that the new comers will have less chance of doing anything in england then the old ones...thats why we want to see chacha here not like we are all related or something. people don't need to get angry or some thing cause faruk and gong don't make decision after reading this stuff....

abu_akif
March 30, 2005, 08:12 PM
Through chacha out of both ODI and test team, forget about him..