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View Full Version : Another idea to help the minnows?


Yameen
April 3, 2005, 08:27 AM
I dont know if any of you have heard of this yet, but yesterday during the tea interval in the TV coverage of West Indies and South Africa, there was a discussion going on about trying to improve Bangladesh and Zimbabwe test cricket. The great Clive Lloyd was suggesting 2 overseas players for the Bang. and Zimb. to help them progress in the test arena. The overseas players would be of the cricket boards choice, but they have to be overseas players of whom have just retired from international cricket and want a different experience of playing for a different country and are not too old (probably like Wasim Akram, Cullinan etc). If this new rule were to be applied by the ICC, it would only apply to the weaker teams and also to the teams introduced to test cricket only.

In My opinion, I dont like this idea, as I do not want any foreigners playing the Bangladeshi team as it would just completly change the development of Bangladesh cricket and Bangladesh's hopes of winning would probably rest on these overseas players. To me, any weak or new test team, have to play to gain experience by playing more test matches and play to their strengths to become a better team. I would still say that this idea is better than the idea of a two tier system.

What do you guys think?

Navarene
April 3, 2005, 08:33 AM
The great Clive Lloyd was suggesting 2 overseas players for the Bang. and Zimb.
Seems like the more he is getting older the more his intelligence is deteriorating.

oracle
April 3, 2005, 08:36 AM
In theory, sounds good. (hmm come to think of it in theory it is also questionable..)
Clive lloyd may have the best intentions but cannot agree with these guys playing in
the test team. C'mon a test team is a test team- and for Bangladesh i hope there is an iota of pride associated with it.. It's not that they are foreign- they are discards from their own team .

First of all the commitment and dedication to the team will be dubious. And who says that these retirees will be better than our crop of players.

Nontheless, i would welcome more of them figuring prominently in the domestic scene and coaching the domestic outfits.

Edited on, April 3, 2005, 1:37 PM GMT, by oracle.

chinaman
April 3, 2005, 08:36 AM
Yes, we heard about it few years ago. At present both ideas are matters of the past. I don't think we need to expand on these ideas any more. Cheers.

Frost
April 3, 2005, 09:34 AM
It's the most outrageous idea among all the ideas that were suggested by cricket pundits to improve standard of cricket!

fwullah
April 3, 2005, 09:58 AM
The great Clive Lloyd was suggesting 2 overseas players for the Bang. and Zimb.


I don't know about Zimbabwe, but if such a step is really taken, then there will be outrage, hartal, michil (procession), meeting, lathipeta, demand for our CEO to be sacked, demand for our Board president as well as the selectors to be fired from the BCB's respective positions, bidroho among our players etc. etc. not only among us - fans, but also among the former national cricketers as well as current national cricketers.

Now if the situation that we were under Mohsin Kamal, or Trevor Chappell - the situation had not imroved, rather, those 4 years (between the year 2001 to 2003 - upto world cup) had continued for 10 years, then the above processions and hartals might not happen. But as long as we're beating teams like Zimbabwe - when they were weaker than us, or UAE, or Holland, and showing signs of improvement as we have been showing under Whatmore, then those uprisings might occur.

fwullah
April 3, 2005, 10:09 AM
Nontheless, i would welcome more of them figuring prominently in the domestic scene and coaching the domestic outfits.


Yes. And remember, we get national discarded players like those of India, or yet to be playing their debut match-youngsers from Pakistan come to Bangladesh to play in the national leagues or in the club competitions.

We would rather want to have Steve Waugh, Mark Waugh, Md. Azharuddin, Wasim Akram etc. to play & be a coach for Abahani, Mohammedan or Dhaka, Chittagong. It may not be that they'd be playing in all the matches throughout the season. For example, our current national players will not be able to play in our national league from the next round (or the current round), then those great players could come in the places of Ashraful, Habibul Bashar etc. It would not only be a new kind of experience for them (for both those great players as well as our fringe players), but will also be helping us indirectly by just staying in Bangladesh for a few days or a week or so.

In fact, I think that Steve Waugh has helped Scotland a great deal by playing for them, but I have never heard somebody from outside the Indian subcontinent to come here and play for any of our domestic teams, except for Neil Fairbrother (almost a decade ago).

Ovi Khan
April 3, 2005, 10:21 AM
Clive bhaier mone hoi abar cricket khelar shok hoise. :D

Shehwar
April 3, 2005, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by Ovi Khan
Clive bhaier mone hoi abar cricket khelar shok hoise. :D

Ha! Ha! Ha!...spot on......its all rubbish really...Its impossible for a foreigner to play with the same level of determination and commitment as someone playing for his own country...More importantly.....WE DONT LIKE IT!

Akib
April 3, 2005, 11:06 AM
if would be really funny. Waugh playing for BD or Atherton playing for Zimbabwe.

Sham
April 3, 2005, 11:17 AM
I can see how it might help raise the standard of cricket being played, but how on earth does it improve the standard of our players? It will only make it worse because our guys will depend on the foreigners to do the scoring and take the wickets. That used to happen everytime a sub-continental superstar would feature in a premiere league match, all the local players would just leave it to the foreign player to do the work! Crap idea. Send us better coaches, especially for the NCL teams, help us improve our pitches, practice facilities etc, na, he wants to send us retired players from other countries!! As if players of other countries are dying to play for us anyway. The only reason that they would play is for money, and we don't want mercenaries thanks very much!

couger
April 3, 2005, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by Navarene
The great Clive Lloyd was suggesting 2 overseas players for the Bang. and Zimb.
Seems like the more he is getting older the more his intelligence is deteriorating.

Right, senelity is catching up with him.

Rubu
April 3, 2005, 11:22 AM
i dont mind the idea as long as they are restricted to carrying drinks and substituting fielders.

TigerFan
April 3, 2005, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by AgentSmith
i dont mind the idea as long as they are restricted to carrying drinks and substituting fielders.

Fully agreed.

ajithlalm
April 4, 2005, 01:51 AM
The great Clive Lloyd was suggesting 2 overseas players for the Bang. and Zimb.

It is a good idea for me as long as there is only 2 overseas players in the country. County cricket are allowing foreign players then why cannt the Country levels. After all the cricket should be competitive ones. The games of the minors would be a weak and one sided games with very strong countries. For eg game of Australia Vs Zimbabwe. There would be say score like 700 to 800 some day in the test and the Zimbabwe will get out under 50 runs. Would this be a competitive match ?

Next when will Bangladesh win the first test win against Australia. Most probably in 10 years or 20 years

When will the next country get test status most probably in 2 years of 5 years. When will they register the first win again takes 10 years ro 15 years.

Otherwise restrict the matches in 8 countries and not to allowing minors to play cricket.

How many people would be there to see a Australia Vs Zimbabwe match. How many people would support to see Newzealand Vs Bangladesh match.

If there is one or two overseas players then there would be more competition. Two overseas players can train the entire team to reach professionals. Look on different countries there might be some people in different countries who are not born in that country. They have to wait 4 years to qualify to play in the country if they were born in another country

Say Steve Waugh and Mark Waugh. Everyone would love to see them play cricket but its impossible for them to play in Australia because of the quality of the players. If they play for Bangladesh. The Bangladesh cricket standard will improve. When the standard improves the players will try to reach up to the standard. For eg. a score aroudn 350 was impossible in 10 to 15 years above in test matches. Today 3.5 runrate is quite common in test. More matches are won in test cricket where as the matches were drawn before.

Waqar, Wasim, etc are heroes of Bangladesh people. They would love to see these guys play for Bangladesh cricket.

There should be criteria for the overseas players. They should be like these.
1. The overseas players should sign a contract for eg 6 months to play for the minor team.
2. The overseas players should be retired players or recently retired palyers.
3. If possible the overseas players stay in the country of minor cricket for period fo 2 to 3 months or if possible take the citizenship in the country.
4. There should be a qualifying for overseas players ie, 2 months or 3 months to play in the domestic matches of the country.
5. They should look for the development of the quality of the cricket in the country.

Coaches are foreign guys. Some ground stuff are foreign guys. Pitch are made in other countries. Lots of people work for employment in different countries. The playing material used can be foreign stuff.

Then y not give a chance of 2 overseas players in a country of minors ?

Looking for ur suggestions

PoorFan
April 4, 2005, 02:15 AM
Sounds like the idea is to "create a cricket market" for retired national player,
and if this happens to help the min knows or associates some way.

Well, if the idea is to get benefit for both side, then why not ICC cricket development board
take a step to organize a group of coaches and trainers from those retired nationals,
and send them to work with cricket min knows country.
ICC should make the contract with that group of coaches, and pay them,
and select which country they should work with.

I am not sure whether those retired player will agree to work with this idea,
but a payment of 3 to 5 thousand a month may gather some, if not all of those famous.
And it could be a great opportunity for those who plan to coach world wide after their retirement.

bourny3
April 4, 2005, 05:38 AM
no way that is rediculous. Maybe 2 overseas players could help with the coaching and experience of players.

Sam
April 4, 2005, 06:11 AM
Retired foreign test players for minnows is not acceptable by ant means. But I agree with bourney3 that they can help by couching the lesser teams on ICC account.

Shehwar
April 4, 2005, 07:02 AM
Yeah...the idea of other players playing for us is absolute crap.....Go tell the UAE authorities to consider that.....cheers...

akabir77
April 4, 2005, 07:47 AM
Here is another theory: As Ausiss r the best in the business and no one seems to beat them so why don't we ply 2 oh no make it 11 Aussiss in all the teams and have a close, fighting games... and this will be alowed only to the teams that can't beat australia oh thats all 9 of them...

Edited on, April 4, 2005, 12:52 PM GMT, by akabir77.

little_master
April 4, 2005, 09:27 AM
Clive wants to play for bangladesh or zimbabwe?
:lol:

fwullah
April 4, 2005, 09:49 AM
How many people would be there to see a Australia Vs Zimbabwe match. How many people would support to see Newzealand Vs Bangladesh match.


I don't know about Zimbabwe, but if we play well, there'll be plenty of support for Bangladesh in Bangladesh.

fwullah
April 4, 2005, 10:00 AM
Say Steve Waugh and Mark Waugh. Everyone would love to see them play cricket but its impossible for them to play in Australia because of the quality of the players. If they play for Bangladesh. The Bangladesh cricket standard will improve. When the standard improves the players will try to reach up to the standard. For eg. a score aroudn 350 was impossible in 10 to 15 years above in test matches. Today 3.5 runrate is quite common in test. More matches are won in test cricket where as the matches were drawn before.


Or, it can happen like this: Bangladesh, having both Mark Waugh and Steve Waugh playing in the first eleven. Then they both score 100s or 50s - in which case, we are very competitive against Australia, say we lose in the last ball of a 50 over game, and the rest of the players scoring less than 20, or even stay at the wicket for less than 5 balls. Then how will it improve our standard of cricket?

In fact, if the 2 Waughs are so great and so consistent that they score 200 runs together and the 9 players score 20 runs together? Will you like it? I won't. Especially because we won't be getting anywhere; and after the waughs are say, over 50 years old, and too old play cricket, or any competitive match, then what?

Then our national players will be too much dependent on the Waughs and we'll be demanding for 2 more test-players from other nations, so that we could be competitive.

Then if these new 2 players are too old to play international cricket, then we'll be asking for yet another 2 players to play for us. Thus, the process would go on & on, and in the end, we'll be too dependent and our cricket will be doomed.

chyicarus
April 4, 2005, 11:01 AM
I think Clive can easily play in our Domestic competitions. His idea is good- but it shouldn't be for the national squads.
I do have a different suggestion- which is sending 2 members of each squad- from BD and Zim to different countries and play their league.
Like if we send about 10 players (2 each)- to England, Australia, West Indies, South Africa, India and/or Pakistan- then these players will be exposed to different styles of cricket and will get used to different conditions also. I also like the idea of sending promising players abroad like the MRF Pace Foundation and Australian Cricket Academy.
What do you all think?

IanW
April 5, 2005, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by Sham
I can see how it might help raise the standard of cricket being played, but how on earth does it improve the standard of our players? It will only make it worse because our guys will depend on the foreigners to do the scoring and take the wickets. That used to happen everytime a sub-continental superstar would feature in a premiere league match, all the local players would just leave it to the foreign player to do the work! Crap idea. Send us better coaches, especially for the NCL teams, help us improve our pitches, practice facilities etc, na, he wants to send us retired players from other countries!! As if players of other countries are dying to play for us anyway. The only reason that they would play is for money, and we don't want mercenaries thanks very much!

Sham,

Dennis Lillie's season with Tasmania in the Sheffield Shield improved young Greg Campbell so much that it got him a test cap and a trip to England. DK wasnt a shadow of his old self, but he still improved the quicks around him.

Foriegn players in the actual Test team, no. But what would you think of Stuart McGill as Captain-Coach of one of the teams in the club comp ? Similarly, if a Jamie Cox or a Michal DeVenuto came over for a season, you'd see batsman copying better techniques, rather than the limited-overs crap too many young batsmen fall into.

Ian Whitchurch

couger
April 5, 2005, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by little_master
Clive wants to play for bangladesh or zimbabwe?
:lol:


We don't want anyone who's clearly lost his mind.

AsifTheManRahman
April 5, 2005, 12:13 PM
no foreigner is playing for my country! :mad:

btw, clive er mone hoy ajkal kaam kaaj kom porse...maybe we should start thinking about removing the position "Match Referee" from the game if they really don't have much to do anymore these days :lol:

Tokai
April 5, 2005, 01:00 PM
if this really happens foreign team will be only willing to send those who are burden to them. that means, our players will not learn anything from them but will forget what they remember.

i don't see any reason why a country will be willing to send some talent out here instead of using those themselves.

Ahmed_B
April 6, 2005, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by IanW
Originally posted by Sham
I can see how it might help raise the standard of cricket being played, but how on earth does it improve the standard of our players?...
Sham,
Foriegn players in the actual Test team, no. But what would you think of Stuart McGill as Captain-Coach of one of the teams in the club comp ? Similarly, if a Jamie Cox or a Michal DeVenuto came over for a season, you'd see batsman copying better techniques, rather than the limited-overs crap too many young batsmen fall into.

Ian Whitchurch
Ian W. : u r absolutely right about the effect of foreign players in domestic/league cricket... and just for information, a good number of superior test team players has already played in Dhaka domestic leagues (including the likes of Wasim Akram and so on). The reason that players like Steve Waugh or Nasser Hussain do not and will not play in our leagues is probably solely financial (the financial return that they will get by playing here) but otherwise Dhaka's Clubs do invite and play foreign players.

Sham's piont about Foreign players in Test Team is very much true. Test cricket is about Team/National spirit and pride. And a foreign player in the team may even create lack of harmony & spirit among the team-mates. The pleasure of winning against a top test nation with the help of test players from other nations is far less than winning it with a solely 'Deshi' team. The 'mixed' team will neither give the national team-mates enough satisfaction nor it will uplift their level of confidence & self-belief. So lets just keep the doors of domestic league open for foreign players as it is now.

CL's comment is bit of selfish and it only aims for 'more competetive test matches in shorter time' but does not really apply when it is about growth of a nation as a spirited strong team.

Edited on, April 6, 2005, 6:37 AM GMT, by crickethorizon.

Rabz
April 6, 2005, 02:55 AM
there is no way and i mean absolutely no f***ing way a foreigner is playing for my country. WE WOULD RATHER BE BROKEN THAN BEND. those GREAT ex players can come and play in the domestic league as much as they want...probably that would help our cricket a lot..thats true...

but playing for your country is not just a day time job..its about passion, patriotism and pride. how can we expect steve waugh or wasim akram stand up and sing our national anthem with passion ...or doing that lap of honour when win (once in a blue moon) a match...???

plus..i think it would create a whole new problem for the spirit and attitude within the players bond and committment...

i would rather get kicked out of the test cricketing arena than leasing out some has-been from some other country and putting on that RED-and-GREEN.
if we are not good enough to play with our own..we might not play at all...

and why talk about only Aus-Bang match...
why not talk about Aus-Eng, Aus-Nz, Aus-WI
every single country these days are getting hammered by Aus anyway..as did WI during the past... it seems to me that every country could use some aussie players in their national team to win matches... how about brett lee spicing indian pace attack..or macgill doin the same for SA... or lehmann playin for NZ...or even shaun tait playin for WI..all these countries could use these players to cover their deficit on those different department of thier game...

We might not a big rich country. we might be known to the world for our floods, cyclones and poverty.
but we are a great nation...a nation with history, culture and honour..and pride.
we are a nation of bidhrohi kobi kazi nazrul islam,
we are a nation of ekushey february
we are a nation of GM niaz morshed
we are a nation of brojen das
....and the list would go on....

let us live with pride and honour...of whatever is left there..

PoorFan
April 6, 2005, 06:13 AM
.........
We might not a big rich country. we might be known to the world for our floods, cyclones and poverty.
but we are a great nation...a nation with history, culture and honour..and pride.
we are a nation of bidhrohi kobi kazi nazrul islam,
we are a nation of ekushey february
we are a nation of GM niaz morshed
we are a nation of brojen das
....and the list would go on....

let us live with pride and honour...of whatever is left there..
OK! OK!! Alright!!!:)
I think everybody got your point!
No foreign players for national team!

IanW
April 7, 2005, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by Tokai
if this really happens foreign team will be only willing to send those who are burden to them. that means, our players will not learn anything from them but will forget what they remember.

i don't see any reason why a country will be willing to send some talent out here instead of using those themselves.

Dont anyone mention Kepler Wessels, or much of the NZ or Australian rugby union teams ...

Ian Whitchurch

jabbar
April 7, 2005, 01:38 AM
Good point about Wessels. I suppose the option to accept a foreign player would be racially biased. That is, a white player would not "fit in" to the BD national side, but a "deshi" player (SL, Ind, Pak, or even WI, Zim) could "fit in".

In any case, I think it is demoralising for a cricketing nation to accept players into the national team from other nations. For teh doemstic competition, of course this is most welcome....
This idea doesn't deserve any further discussion.

All I can say is : I can't wait for England, so that our boys can show everyone their true talents!!


Edited on, April 7, 2005, 6:45 AM GMT, by jabbar.

Rabz
April 8, 2005, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by PoorFan

.........
We might not a big rich country. we might be known to the world for our floods, cyclones and poverty.
but we are a great nation...a nation with history, culture and honour..and pride.
we are a nation of bidhrohi kobi kazi nazrul islam,
we are a nation of ekushey february
we are a nation of GM niaz morshed
we are a nation of brojen das
....and the list would go on....

let us live with pride and honour...of whatever is left there..
OK! OK!! Alright!!!:)
I think everybody got your point!
No foreign players for national team!

are bhai olpote chete jan keno ??

i just got carried away...
tryin to make some inspirational speech..

take it easy man...
:fanflag:

ajithlalm
April 8, 2005, 10:30 PM
Foriegn players in the actual Test team, no. But what would you think of Stuart McGill as Captain-Coach of one of the teams in the club comp ? Similarly, if a Jamie Cox or a Michal DeVenuto came over for a season, you'd see batsman copying better techniques, rather than the limited-overs crap too many young batsmen fall into.



yes I agree with you.

The Bangladesh Club cricket should hire foreign players to play in club cricket like county cricket in England. Atleast for a season some county cricket players and foreign players should come and play in Bangladesh cricket inorder to get more standard in the game.

Also I would like to see some of the players going some other countries to take part in domectic cricket

Best of Lucks Guys

ajithlalm
April 9, 2005, 07:28 AM
International players should spend a week or two with leading retired cricket players to increase technique and to copy new styles and shots of batting.