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View Full Version : Lets evaluate each member seperately to find the playing 11


Rubu
April 21, 2005, 10:13 AM
well, the team has been announced. like it or not, thats the team going to play test matches there.

i think the best news is, this team is only for test. it is very hard to compose one team for both test and odi and so one team playing both test and odi would not be a good idea.

here is the team with my opinion to it. trying to find the playing 11. what is your 11 and why?

<list>
<li>Nafis Iqbal: in playing 11 for sure.
<li>Javed Omar: got to be in 16, yet to decide to be in 11
<li>Habibul Bashar: in playing 11 for sure
<li>Mohammad Ashraful:in playing 11 for sure.
<li>rajin saleh:in playing 11 for sure.
<li>aftab ahmed:in playing 11 for sure.
<li>khaled masud:in playing 11 for sure.
<li>mushfiqur rahim:dont see him play beside practice matches.
<li>shahrier nafis: he+javed = one player in 11
<li>mohammad rafique:in playing 11 for sure.
<li>enamul jr: plays only if we play 2 spinners.
<li>mashrafee murtaza:in playing 11 for sure.
<li>taposh baiysha:in playing 11 for sure.
<li>anwar hossain: save money on net bowlers in england?
<li>talha jubair: save money as well?
<li>shahadat hossain: 90% change to be in playing 11.
</list>

what have we got here?
in my opinion 9 players are fixed to play. and one of javed omar and shahrier nafis plays. that makes it 10 out of 11. now all we need is to figure out one out of 5. the followings:
<list>
<li>shahdat hossain
<li>talha
<li>anwar
<li>enamul
<li>mushfiqur
</list>

my automatic pick would be shahadat. what u think?

AsifTheManRahman
April 21, 2005, 10:20 AM
agent: i agree with your comments on javed, shahriar and enamul. imo, we should leave enamul out of the equation, and play an extra pacer. my choice among these guys would be shahadat. although i don't like him being included so early, and understand that he has yet to gain full control over his bowling, i'd rank him higher than both talha and munir.

mushfiq rahim: he will definitely not be playing in tests.

Shehwar
April 21, 2005, 10:28 AM
I agree with the comments of AgentSmith and AsifTheManRahman....I'd pick Shahadat as well....He is raw and he is fast and he will be playing on seaming pitches....One can only dream of such conditions on debut.....So..yeah...he gets the nod.....However I don see any doubts about Javed not being in the playing eleven unless he is injured......My friend Abir will have to sit out this test series if JO is fully fit and even if JO fails in the first test......Abir has primarily been taken for exposure imo...cheers.....

cricket_pagla
April 21, 2005, 10:37 AM
:( where's Rana?... he's a good all rounder!

Rubu
April 21, 2005, 10:37 AM
now that i'm having a better look this way of the team, i'm surprised to see that we do not have a single extra batsman. in case anything happens to any of the batsman, mushfiqur rahim got to take the position. there is not another person.

now, isn't it a bit risky since we've so many practice matches?

Shehwar
April 21, 2005, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by AgentSmith
now that i'm having a better look this way of the team, i'm surprised to see that we do not have a single extra batsman. in case anything happens to any of the batsman, mushfiqur rahim got to take the position. there is not another person.

now, isn't it a bit risky since we've so many practice matches?

Shahriar Nafees will be playing the role of an extra batsman....He can even fit into the middle order if needed.....so no problems there.....

AsifTheManRahman
April 21, 2005, 10:48 AM
>>in case anything happens to any of the batsman, >>mushfiqur rahim got to take the position.

either that or we'll have to play shahriar and omar at the same time. in that case one of them will have to bat lower down the order than desirable, and that will hamper the whole line-up.

i guess we could've dropped munir for another batter. one of the reasons i'd wanted to have chacha in the side was to try him out in the practice matches, and if he did well with the bat we could've drafted him in as an extra or reserve batter. his bowling may or may not have been an extra bonus, but worth a try.

and the reason i mention chacha now is that we really don't have anyone else who's test worthy as a reserve batsman.

Edited on, April 21, 2005, 3:49 PM GMT, by AsifTheManRahman.

Rubu
April 21, 2005, 10:54 AM
no, i dont think shahrier nafis can be considered for an extra middle order. first off, he is opener and unlikely to fit in middle order. on top of that he does not have the experience. playing in new condition and new team is already too much for a new comer in england when u shaffle him to an unfamilier position, it is highly, highly unlikely that he'll succeed.

i really feel we got too many bowler and one less batsman.

Shehwar
April 21, 2005, 11:03 AM
hmm...point!......

samircreep
April 21, 2005, 11:38 AM
It's way easier for an opener to bat down than a middle order bat to bat up.

Anyways, you forget that Pilot can back at 6 and rafiq and mash are pretty worthy 7 and 8s respectively.

Beamer
April 21, 2005, 12:39 PM
Very sensible selection keeping in mind that we are playing in England. That is the primary reason why this is such a pace heavy selection.

Batsmen : For the six specialist batsmen needed in a test match, we have five already that are pretty much established. N.Iqbal, Bashar, Ash, Rajin, Aftab will play for sure. Javed is a bit iffy, hence, in comes Shariar nafees, another opener in the squad. Him being a lefty is a big plus as well. Faruk mentioned that he can play in the middle order as well. If I were Javed Omar or Aftab, I will watch out, because Shariar Nafees may take one of their spots if he does well in the pre-test matches and one of the other two falters. Javed's spot being the most shaky. Aftab's spot in the one day team is well cemented but he hasn't done that in the test squad yet. Still, a very slim chance for Aftab to be dropped.

Two wkt keepers : Commandable choice. Rahim will not only spare Mashud in some of the practice matches, he may even play in a one day game or two. You can count him as a specialist batsman. He can be tried in the valuable no.6 spot in the one day team, a spot we have utterly ignored by playing Rana, Mahmud, babu etc..from time to time. He seems very much sutied for batting lower in the middle order. Also, will get him reday for future. Good vision here.

Two spinners : Rafiq and Enamul are the two best spinners in the country and rightly so they are going. Carrying three spinners is meaningless in england. Big question is? whether Enamul will get to play at all? We are not going to play two spinners in a test match. Rafiq still remains the no1 spin option unless Enamul outdoes him in practice matches and replaces Rafiq as the first choice spinner in the test arena. Still a big stretch. To make matters worse for Enamul, he will surely come home after the test series and be replaced by Rana. So, our latest match winner might not even play a real game! Could happen.

Five pacers : Mashrafee, Tapash, Rajib, Talha and Munir. The first three mentioned will probably play in the test matches. There is a slight chance that Talha would get the nod ahead of Rajib. This will be a fascinating duel within a game to see who does better than the other in the practice matches. One or the other might get the nod. Bit surprised at the inclusion of Munir, though coach McIness has praised him earlier in his post. I will take his word for it. Nazmul may be nursing some injury as well. In any case, none of the two ( Nazmul or Munir ) will see any action in tests. Nazmul, however, is very much in the ODI team judging by his prior performances.

Worthy ommissions : Mahmud and Rana. They have no value in test matches. If I had to pick the two, I would have picked Rana, simple beacuse he is young and has more upside. People who clamor to see them included in the test squad are disillusional at best.

A job well done by the selectors. Can't say anything negative about this squad. It is balanced, suited for condition and will alllow the top order to perform freely without looking over too much over their shoulder. They have identified their core batsmen and told them, "look we have confidence in you, now perform ". If that wasn't the case, you would have seen Tushar Imran, Alok etc..in the squad.

Locutus
April 21, 2005, 12:43 PM
The squad looks very good. No complain!! Shahadat is very good idea in the English condition.

Ahmed_B
April 21, 2005, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by AgentSmith
<li>shahrier nafis: he+javed = one player in 11
Well... the choice is more likely to be between S. Nafees & Mushfiq Rahim.

Even though S. Nafees is an established opener... its bit unusual practice to put a debutant in test opening position. Even established young openers usually get their debut in mid-order... just for better adjustment and lesser pressure. Then with time and performance they are promoted to opening.

And ofcourse... between Nafees & Mushfiq, Nafees has a higher chance.

Edited on, April 21, 2005, 6:28 PM GMT, by crickethorizon.
Reason: typo

Desh Bangla
April 21, 2005, 01:41 PM
Shariar Nafees should watch the First Test live and then think about playing the second one if anyone fails from the openning duo .

Sham
April 21, 2005, 02:00 PM
Beamer has summed it up quite nicely. There is no problem with Shahriar Nafees playing in the middle order if he needs to. As Samir mentioned, the problem happens when its the other way round. Didn't Vaughan drop down to 4 when Strauss came into the England team? Didn't Boon bat in the middle order later in his career? I don't know what makes people think that an opener cannot bat in the middle order!

Also, I just wanted to say, with no players injured, our selectors have decided that this is the best 16. Could you guys show our players a little more damn respect than dismissing them as net bowlers? Everyone who made it into the squad must have worked damn hard to impress the selectors, and I seriously think they deserve a little more respect than what some of you sitting in your comfy rooms are dishing out! No matter what team they picked, someone or another will always be disappointed by some of the decisions. Thats no reason to dismiss players like that even before the start of the tour!

Edited on, April 21, 2005, 7:04 PM GMT, by Sham.

Beamer
April 21, 2005, 02:57 PM
Herschelle Gibbs is another opener now batting in the middle.

al Furqaan
April 21, 2005, 03:38 PM
i agree with beamer and agent smith...can't argue with them.

the point that enamul our latest match-winner may not play at all in england is i think is a positive thing. this proves that bangladesh have now a solid core of 15-20 players for test and ODIs. and that like other test nations, we also modify our team according to the conditions. all other test nations do this and so to do we. :great:

imagine a small nation like namibia touring england. would it matter what bowlers they take??? they will all get smacked around the park.

Akib
April 21, 2005, 04:35 PM
I think we should try enamul out in some of the practice matches and see how well he plays.

TheWatcher
April 21, 2005, 05:06 PM
Since we are taking so many seamers in the team, it may be a good idea to hire a bowling coach. Whatmore should know someone in England who may be helpful for rookies like Shahadat, Talha, Munir, and Nazmul.

Zephaniah
April 21, 2005, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by TheWatcher
Since we are taking so many seamers in the team, it may be a good idea to hire a bowling coach. Whatmore should know someone in England who may be helpful for rookies like Shahadat, Talha, Munir, and Nazmul.

Good Idea.

IanW
April 21, 2005, 08:20 PM
You play your best bowlers.

If that means two quicks and Aftab Ahmed, then so be it.

But I think England would be more worried about Enamul Haque Jr than about an honest medium-fast bowler like Tapash.

Finally, people keep talking about how England is no good for slow bowlers. Go tell that to Locke, Laker, Edmonds, Embury and Underwood.

A bloke by the name of SK Warne has had some recent success over there as well.

Ian Whitchurch

oracle
April 21, 2005, 08:32 PM
Worthy ommissions : Mahmud and Rana. They have no value in test matches. If I had to pick the two, I would have picked Rana, simple beacuse he is young and has more upside. People who clamor to see them included in the test squad are disillusional at best.


Beamer has summarised it well and the bottom line is that -selection of the team has improved markedly. So I would really like to probe one of the selectors and get a short historical persepective- say 2-3 years. Bearing in mind that we have had our share of bad team selections the focus should be on the selectors "changing" attitudes , instead of analyzing the team selected or who was omitted.

Edited on, April 22, 2005, 1:32 AM GMT, by oracle.

oracle
April 21, 2005, 08:33 PM
A bloke by the name of SK Warne has had some recent success over there as well


and why not Giles?

IanW
April 21, 2005, 08:42 PM
And why not Giles ?

Because once Rafique steps off the plane, Ashley Giles is the second-best slow left armer in England.

And thirty seconds later, when Enamul Haque Jr joins him, he's the third best.

Back your match winners.

Ian Whitchurch

Rubu
April 21, 2005, 09:06 PM
You play your best bowlers.

what u mean by best bowler. considering the pitch or not considering it? if we do not consider the pitch, we'd have ended up with 1 pacer (mashrafee) and 3 spinners (rafique, enamul, rana) in the playing 11. but that does not make any sense. and thats why we need to keep the pitch in consideration. even though it is true that if somehow the spinners can click, they will be much more efficient than the pacers. we do not have enough quality pacers, and its a fact.

i know most of you will disagree with me but i can not accept the fact that anwar hossain was taken over nazmul. u might argue that anwar is talented. tell you what, having talent is like having a map for a treasure. its worthless unless you have the guts to go for it. and until you convert the threasure into hard cash, you are not rich. say, anwar is talented. but has he got it cashed yet? no. and a crutial tour like this one is the worst time to try it out. A team and all other places (except national) team is the place for try out. not national team. excessive suffling in national team without real good reason is not good by any means. why throwing out nazmul even before he is completely tested? none of talha or anwar did anything special to make a big difference from nazmul but got into the team for no apparant reason.

i know the selectors are doing an excellent job and if we compare previous selectors they are almost super humans. but this is one thing they really need to consider seriesly. shaffling without complete testing. rana opened a few matches last year and then was taken back. if u know he is not gonna be able to do it, why try? and if trying why stop in between? why use asharaful to opening and right when he start to find a rhythom, change him back? why send aftab to open when specilist opener like nafis is in the team? why pull shanto out of no where? leave enamul out of the squad and play rajjak in ODI against zim right after he gets the man of the series? and now nazmul. the list goes.
the only reason someone can be removed from national team is injury, long term out of form or some extra ordinary performance by someone else to take the place. which one applied to talha or munir?

Edited on, April 22, 2005, 2:07 AM GMT, by AgentSmith.

Akib
April 21, 2005, 09:13 PM
Giles has been destructive on the county circuit recently. This is good news for Rafique and Enamul as it seems quality SLA bowlers are doing good in England right about now.