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Old August 6, 2003, 06:21 PM
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Orpheus Orpheus is offline
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Default Some thoughts

hmmm, is this discussion dead? Here is my thoughts on creation and evolution.

Even though most of the arguments here seems to be around the origin of life from non-living matters but overall it seems like we are arguing about the existence of God. (the simple address of some of the links provided are enough clues.. ex:; etc etc). These debates are usually redundant and “end” in impasse. After all, no one wants to give up on their beliefs despite the plausibility of the arguments. It is often hard to find some refreshingly new views.

People arguing against a God usually will have tougher time persuading others, simply because people want to believe in God. Atheists also have to back-up their arguments very scientifically while a believer in God just has to find a hole in an argument to persuade everyone that God exists. Creationists often try to invalidate Evolutional ideas or any ideas that may “threaten” the existence of God. Can’t both the existence of God and evolution be true? Certainly it can and that’s what I believe in… Anyhow, from Nasif’s post:

PS: things to ponder about....

Formation of Carbon (building block of life)

“……The question to ask is, what is it in the basic laws of the universe that requires this resonance, involving three elements and the conditions inside a star, to be there? Why not have a universe without carbon? We do not know the answer…...”

Carbon is there because God created it. Cell is there because God created it.
You do understand how lame that author’s argument is right? What kind of backing for God is this, “why not have a universe w/o carbon”? These sorts of question-type arguments are done by idiots. I can also argue that “why did God create all the things that we do not need such as other galaxies or other sections of universe(s) outside our solar system?” or “Why did God have to make the human race at much later stage of an evolved Earth, why couldn’t he make Earth perfect for human since the beginning because after all, we are the sole reason why God created all these? etc etc.” Does that prove that God doesn’t exist? Nope nor the “carbon argument” proves the existence of God.

There are also some interesting arguments regarding the existence of life…arguments on many fundamental numbers of the laws of science (ex: electrical charge of electron, proton & electron mass ration etc). The argument is that the remarkable values of these numbers have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life. For ex: if the electric charge of the electron was slightly different, then stars either wouldn’t be able to burn hydrogen and helium, or wouldn’t have exploded. Thus no planets, no earth, no nothing!

So what are we left to believe in? Those numbers were placed because God wanted us to exist or we exist because those numbers are there (I hope this isn’t confusing). I think the latter idea is called the anthropic principle. Even though I don’t understand or is not interested in the whole thing but the idea is this: Let’s say there is a model for a universe – and it has its own sets of laws of science. Those laws and conditions of the universe led to the development of complicated organisms. If you ask, but why such laws – well the answer is if those weren’t the sets of laws, you wouldn’t be here and asking such ridiculous questions.

Anyways, enough!

I believe that Universe was created by God and is left alone to run by itself with all its sets of laws. The universe doesn’t work arbitrarily nor does God intervene. Everything has a process. For example, in our Holy text – we are told that each of us are created by God (by his angel) but last time I checked you were born because your mom and dad did some peculiar things. Your mom sure didn’t have an immaculate conception like Mary. Also, you weren’t just thrown from the sky, were you? We are replicating, that’s the process - a natural process. Same goes for evolution. It is a process. If it is right (I like to think so), it doesn’t prove that there is no God. If it is false, that also doesn’t prove that there is in fact a God.

I believe that there is a God who created the Universe and we are here because of evolution which was set by almighty himself. Think of it this way, the very first “Monkey” with a DNA perfectly resembling a human being is Adam! His parents are some sort of later stage monkeys evolving to human. I am sure he wasn’t just thrown into a jungle – just like you weren’t!
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