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Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Do you have any doubt about it? What was the result of the voting?
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people say sobers is ahead of the rest mainly because he not only bowled swing but also two kinds of spin. it's great that he could do that but let's be real here, his bowling other than some years of his left arm swing really wasn't that great. now i'm not saying he couldn't bowl quality pace or spin, but he did it very inconsistently and that's why his bowling numbers aren't that good. people will say he was used to hold an end or he was made to be the spinner in matches conducive for pace bowling and vice versa, they'll also say his numbers aren't as great because he bowled spin and that lowers your stats as spinners almost always have lower strike rates and averages. but the fact is his average is still 34 and his strike rate is still over 90. he bowled purely spin for the first few of his tests as he was selected originally as a spinner, don't know the exact number but i've researched it before and the numbers were far from impressive. when you're comparing all time greats things like strike rates and averages matter.
i'm not trying to take anything away from sobers (he still makes my all time great XI) just his bowling gets a bit overrated, and like i said before it's not because he couldn't bowl quality, it's because he couldn't do it consistently.
the way i tend to rate all rounders is in the context of an all time team selection. who would be more useful as an all rounder (that means utilising both batting and bowling). in this regard sobers has to be considered a top 6 batsman who can be the 5th bowler. someone like imran is a #8 (maybe a #7) and an opening bowler. i'd say with that criteria imran is a more useful all rounder. of course if you bring fielding into it then imran suffers and sobers case strengthens.
for me the battle for the #1 all rounder is between sobers, imran and procter. miller misses the short list due to having that higher strike rate and slightly worse bowling and batting averages than imran. kallis misses the short list as he's basically sobers but a less dynamic batsman and only bowls pace whereas sobers adds extra with his spin. botham misses out as he couldn't sustain his quality for a decent enough period of time.
now with this short list procter probably has to bow out due to his lack of exposure at the test level. he probably would have been an ATG fast bowler, he probably would have averaged as much as imran with the bat (and got more centuries). he was a much more natural batsman with classy technique and powerful shots, he also bowled off spin at a good standard and was a good fielder. but as great of a cricketer he was at the end of the day we don't know how he would have held up over an entire test career. that doesn't stop me from selecting him in my all time team, as i'm willing to take the risk of his selection, but to select a true #1 you have to consider everything and unfortunately procter never had a full test career which as i said means we just don't know.
so it's down to sobers and imran. tbh i think they're pretty equal, on one day sobers would be more useful and on another imran would be.