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Old August 9, 2003, 11:46 PM
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Orpheus Orpheus is offline
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Default Hmmm

Even though this discussion seems to be dead but here is my reply to Nasif bhai as I promised but before that I will give a piece of my mind to pompous…
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Allah didnot create anything without a reason
Agreed
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I don't know what your definition fo personal attack is but I thought I was not attacking anyone but debating their viewpoints.
Perhaps “PA” was not the right sets of words (you know me and my english) but you surely were very dismissive with unnecessary emotion such as “eh?”, “WOW”, mild sarcasm, “brave comment” ittadi ittadi. What do you really expect me to infer from those?
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I would rather call such statements as "so and so is is saying such and such out of fear or whatever" more offensive and insulting than actually challenging a viewpoint because now you are getting personal about their abilities and character. Don't you agree?!
First notice what I said. It was “fear of PA” (parenthesis followed after words “PA”) – I think we have been in this forum long enough to realize how most discussions end. So it is in a sense better to stay out. So, that comment was actually a sort of compliment to your character from my perspective.
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and I was talking about the futility of common sense...NOT futility of this discussion!!!...
Well I wasn’t necessarily referring to that particular sentence of yours. I think you may have said something about useless debates… but I maybe wrong. By the way, not sure what you mean by futility of common sense? Common sense as in God exist ????
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Anyways, I am done with this thread.
My reasons being,
Perfectly understood!
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For what its worth I don't think you are a dumb****, orpheus.
To tell you the truth, it doesn’t worth much! I couldn’t care less what you or anyone else for that matter thought about me.

Finally – I apologize for whatever YOU may have inferred insulting. Allah Hafez!

Now – Nasif Bhai!
Even though this doesn’t affect the main discussion much but I do have to show that I wasn’t wrong or making things up
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Yes I am aware of the RSA encryption. By the way as far as I know, most recent cracked RSA number was 64 bit encryption.
Perhaps! You are talking about encryptions that were implemented.
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There is no 129 bit encryption. There is 128bit, 256bit, 512bit encryption etc (in power of 2).
Well I was really talking about the mathematics side of the RSA encryption, not necessarily the encryption itself. The implemented encryptions are in the power of 2 but mathematically it can be any number. RSA – #, where # is the number of digits in the product of two prime numbers.

Cracking the “encryption” would be to find those two primes. So there is RSA – 129 and my story was NOT made up. You can do a google search of RSA-129. Thus, rest of that cryptography jargon along with Neo project is not necessary anymore.

But still your argument on effort holds even for RSA-129. I will add that it’s pretty good one . I thought RSA analogy was pretty good and I gave my reasons on the conclusion on that post (you can read it again). Anyhow, I will not further argue with it because I don’t have detailed knowledge on this issue and don’t feel like gaining it either…. Shob text book article!
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The reason I posted the that small article was not to show God's existance but to show that there is an external force at work and there is a deliberate wish to create life.
External force = GOD, whatever your reason was!
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You have to understand how hard it is to fuse an atom if they are not stable. Fusion of H to He occurs in sun due to extraordinary stability of He at those extreme temperature. For that very reason formation of Carbon is very unlikey. I thought the article was very clear about that. Question/answer method of writing is probably this writer's way of writing. That doesn't overshadow the fact of extraordinary effort that is required to create one single atom of Carbon.
Looks like the article wasn’t that clear to me. This is what I understood.
First the author explains how it’s hard to make carbon because beryllium-8 is so unstable that it doesn’t stay long enough to react with helium. But berrylium-9 is stable however a collision with Helium-4 does not make carbon-12. So he is asking himself - Universe is there w/o carbon but we are not. If it’s so hard, how/why is it formed? He sees God for a split second.
God disappears because there is a resonance. This resonance lets helium to stay long enough to form carbon (was tested in Lab – talk about God’s hand?). Now he is being a bit clever and asking but why this resonance? Now you see the problem here right? He will keep asking “but why this” … well because of that… “but why that” – it’s never ending because he wants to believe in purpose.
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Question/answer method of writing is probably this writer's way of writing. That doesn't overshadow the fact of extraordinary effort that is required to create one single atom of Carbon.
That’s a stupid style of writing. About the extraordinary effort – let’s quote something from the article where the author describes resonance in laymen’s terms..
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A resonance describes an effect where one gets a big result from a relatively small effort. Pluck a string in a certain way and you get a big sound for a small pull; do it some other way and it goes flat.

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I agree. There is a deliberate attempt all over this planet to create life. The air pressure, temperature (such a short range of temperature supports life thats just amazing), water cycle, seasonal changes and photosynthesis of plant (one of the most amazing thing in nature).
What do you mean deliberate attempt? I thought I already gave a very good reasoning behind this – the anthropic principle. I will reiterate. For ex: let’s take the ranges of temperature… I don’t know the range but let’s assume it’s 0-100 (Celsius). Now you are saying, that is God’s work, it could have been different range. Let’s say – the temperature in the earth fluctuated from -500 to -300 (Celsius). Well then you wouldn’t be here. Current condition is PERFECT for you to survive, that’s why you exist. You are reasoning the other way (not that logical), it’s because of us – the ranges were made that way. I hope I am clear. If an intelligent species survived in -500 to -300 range, then they would be asking… why such range? This argument is basically dead-lock here but its better to go with more logical one.
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A perfect life would have self food creation system like plants and mobility like animal. That would have given it full control over the planet. Sadly that type of life never evolved on this earth. Wonder why natural selection didn't select best of both world?
That perfect life is the figment of your imagination. What makes you think that natural selection is aiming for “perfect life”? Natural selection selects the best from the CURRENT bunch. You can try making a perfect life by having sex with a tree – up to you!
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You may ask then why do we have a choice to have a child whenever we want? Well, you may wish to have a child and have sex but you cannot have a child unless its authorized. Doesn't matter how hard you try, ultimately you are left to mercy of God.
Again you perceive whatever you want. I will reemphasize that there is a process. There is always a reason why a couple can’t have children. Let’s say the guy has some dead sperms, it is not penetrating the eggs. There are so many other medical reasons. Perhaps it is God’s will but it’s not like everything is perfect but no child! You see my point here?
In the Holy text, pregnancy is often regarded as the “mercy of God” – just like you wrote. Pre-marital sex is a sin but why bless them with a child? It’s about choice right? There are a lot of unwanted pregnancy…wasn’t God reading their mind?
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My posts on this thread is indeed to expose the fallasy and common misconception held about the theory of evolution.
Appreciated it!
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it is God who created the quarks, the protons, the elections, the atom, the fusion, the fission, the matter, the anti-matter, you, me and 6 billion others human and trillion other living system on this tiny planet..
Again, technically God created everything but he didn’t create everything individually. All you need is quarks to get to the rest. From quarks you will get proton and neutron – from those two, you will have atoms and then molecules, gas etc. I don’t know what you mean by God created fusion and fission – they are reactions and are from certain characteristics of protons and etc… If it was only at God’s will that fission worked, we would be seeing Nuclear Bombs exploding without ignition.

Anyways this redundancy is getting really really boring… my final though….NOTHING IS ARBITRARY except for our cricket team selection.
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