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  #1  
Old March 26, 2007, 10:40 PM
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Thumbs up Why Not An Additional Pacer for the Next Game ??

I strongly feel that Bangladesh should add another pacer (Shahadat) for the next game.
Otherwise Aftab and Nafees is not in form. There is hardly any chance for them to comeback against stronger sides. Nafees is failing to handle the incoming deliveries. Aftab is still in zimbabwe mood, can't resist playing stroke, without seeing the ball.

Our bowling needs to be strong so that the Ausie batsmen can't take the game away by batting only. We are short of one pace bowler in the middle overs. It was strongly felt against Srilanka. If we could keep srilanka within 250, we had a chance.

Mashrafee and Shahadat starting & ending the attack, or depending on the condition Rasel also can open the attack and Shahadat in the middle then.

What do you Guys think?

Finally congratulations to all here; on such a great achievement of our boys in the world cricket. Hope they continue to perform good.
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  #2  
Old March 26, 2007, 10:46 PM
Russell2k7 Russell2k7 is offline
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Sounds good to me but who can we bench. Razzak?
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  #3  
Old March 26, 2007, 10:51 PM
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Well if you see the other thread, Sir Viv Stadium where we play Aus is a flat wicket and less conducive to pace bowling that has little variation. Bangladesh cant afford to ditch a quality spinner like Razzak against Aus, and take an erratic Rajib giving deliveries that come onto the bat.

Aftab is by far our team's best fielder. Batting and bowling alone wont contain Australia and South Africa. You need lightning sharp reflexes and aggression on the field to create pressure too.
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  #4  
Old March 26, 2007, 11:06 PM
Russell2k7 Russell2k7 is offline
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Yeah I say if Razzak gets hammered by the Aussies let Shadaat play against Saffers.
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  #5  
Old March 26, 2007, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell2k7
Yeah I say if Razzak gets hammered by the Aussies let Shadaat play against Saffers.
Thats faulty logic.

Razzak is more of a wizard at his spin bowling, than Rajib is at his fast-bowling. Statistics will show that chances of Rajib conceding more runs for less wickets is higher than for Razzak. The only circumstances where Rajib should come in as a pacer is if the pitch is a greentop on a damp, cool and breezy day, or as a replacement for Rasel.
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  #6  
Old March 27, 2007, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammark
Thats faulty logic.

Razzak is more of a wizard at his spin bowling, than Rajib is at his fast-bowling. Statistics will show that chances of Rajib conceding more runs for less wickets is higher than for Razzak. The only circumstances where Rajib should come in as a pacer is if the pitch is a greentop on a damp, cool and breezy day, or as a replacement for Rasel.
I would rathar, preffer Rajib coming in place of Aftab/Nafees, and one of Ashraful/Mushfiq opening if Nafees is resting. We need to have more option in bowling to restrict the opponents around 250/260. Given all the batsmen in the team, it is still hard for us to chase a target around 300 or more.

Pitches in WI are all sporting wicket and the humidity and moisture in this season will always assist the pacers with new ball and medium pacers are effective in the middle overs, so they can’t settle down with the spinners and hit them all around the park. It’s too predictable bowling attack. We haven’t seen a lot of spin in any of the pitches so far. Even Murali struggled.

Razzaq is a good spinner, who has good cricketing sense, Razzaq & Rafiq should be there. An additional pace bowler could be handy as a variety in the middle to restrict the batsmen in Super eight.

Does it make sense?

[Hey man Rajib is not that bad; I like his bowling, he injects agreession in the team by his aggressive attitude, He can move the ball and has got pace. ]
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  #7  
Old March 27, 2007, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
I would rathar, preffer Rajib coming in place of Aftab/Nafees, and one of Ashraful/Mushfiq opening if Nafees is resting. We need to have more option in bowling to restrict the opponents around 250/260. Given all the batsmen in the team, it is still hard for us to chase a target around 300 or more.

Pitches in WI are all sporting wicket and the humidity and moisture in this season will always assist the pacers with new ball and medium pacers are effective in the middle overs, so they can’t settle down with the spinners and hit them all around the park. It’s too predictable bowling attack. We haven’t seen a lot of spin in any of the pitches so far. Even Murali struggled.

Razzaq is a good spinner, who has good cricketing sense, Razzaq & Rafiq should be there. An additional pace bowler could be handy as a variety in the middle to restrict the batsmen in Super eight.

Does it make sense?

[Hey man Rajib is not that bad; I like his bowling, he injects agreession in the team by his aggressive attitude, He can move the ball and has got pace. ]
- I value Aftab as a fielder too highly to drop him. Especially vs Australia and South Africe.

- If you want bowling depth at the expense of batting, then yes getting Rajib for his aggression is option. But Rajib is expensive as a bowler. And he hasnt so far demonstrated variety or great control in his bowling like Mashrafee and Rasel so far.

- I am not convinced of Ash performing as an opener. Ash has performed best in the middle order recently when we needed him very crucially. Mushi plays an anchor role too, but the kid looked shaken and jittery vs SL. I wouldnt want to expose him to furious fast bowlers. We've done silly things like this before and messed up many players.
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  #8  
Old March 27, 2007, 12:56 AM
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ammark, Good thoughts. I agree with you so much on exposing early and spoiling talents. I hope our people understands it as much.

Last three matches Nafees is strugling to stay at the crease and Aftab is also leaving early. So vertually 4/5 batsmen are opening. Ashraful Have played high up the order before and now he looks to be much matured and calm than ever. I think he could go to opening slot. He handled the moving ball against Brmuda confidently.

Probably it will be a gamble to go with Nafees, he has no contribution with Bat, Ball and neither field that much. And we are missing a balling option.

Fielding is very important;

Thanks for your thoughts
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  #9  
Old March 27, 2007, 12:57 AM
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Yah i wanna see an extra pacer in place of Aftab. He's not looking good.
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  #10  
Old March 27, 2007, 01:10 AM
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Noooooooo, If you wanna kill Rajib's career then by all means let him bowl vs that "Murders Row" lineup that Australia has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell2k7
Yeah I say if Razzak gets hammered by the Aussies let Shadaat play against Saffers.
Any team but SA and Australia!
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  #11  
Old March 27, 2007, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cricman
Noooooooo, If you wanna kill Rajib's career then by all means let him bowl vs that "Murders Row" lineup that Australia has.

Any team but SA and Australia!
I don't think he is that bad. Ausies and Protis play spin well; you look at all the line ups, every one has an option of medium pacer in the slog overs. Rajib has pace, it's difficult to stop these teams if they start slogging the spinners. 3rd Pacer can add a variation if they manage to take on spinners.

Rajib can share a few overs if spinners are attacked. Using up mashrafe in the middle overs will allow them to slog in the last overs.

I would rather prefer BD to have more firepower against Ausies & protious Batsmen. We don't have any good parttime bowler. Aftab went for 17 (1 over) against Bermuda. That's worring, isnt it?
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  #12  
Old March 27, 2007, 01:15 AM
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I dont think we should play with three pacers unless the pitch is a green top. Otherwise we would be playing into the hands of our opponents. Our strength currently is our three pronged spin attack and it will be more successful against the teams in the super 8 than it was to us against sri lanka and India in group matches. However having said that I would like to play shahdat in place of rasel in the matches against all the teams barring ireland. I think if rasel has a bad day then he will be creamed worse than shahdat having a bad day. Rasel with his swing can be good in the early overs only and only if we can bowl him out his quota non stop. But I think shahdat has more chance of being more potent. I would definitely put shahdat in our first match in the super 8. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain if this works out.
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  #13  
Old March 27, 2007, 02:01 AM
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Rajib's ODI stats look good, Has good pace, Agression ..... He is the third seamer in the team. We don't have a better option:

RajibMat Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 4 5 10
ODIs 20 880 721 24 3/34 3/34 30.04 4.91 36.66 0 0 0
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  #14  
Old March 27, 2007, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
Rajib's ODI stats look good, Has good pace, Agression ..... He is the third seamer in the team. We don't have a better option:

RajibMat Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 4 5 10
ODIs 20 880 721 24 3/34 3/34 30.04 4.91 36.66 0 0 0
All of his wickets are vs Zimbabwe/Scotland/Canada

Razzak,Rafique,Masri and Rasel are fine, if Hablu can use Sakib for 5-6 overs and let Ash or Aftab (or Both) bowl 4-5 overs you'd get the most out of the attack IMO.
Aftab's wickets
Code:

Wickets Inn Batsman                Dismissal                 Runs

  1-5   2nd ODI v NZ at Dhaka (d/n), 2004/05 [2190]
         2  NJ Astle               c Javed Omar                29 
         2  HJH Marshall           lbw                          2 
         2  SB Styris              bowled                      12 
         2  CD McMillan            lbw                          7 
         2  BB McCullum            lbw                          0 
  6-6   3rd ODI v NZ at Dhaka (d/n), 2004/05 [2191]
         1  CZ Harris              lbw                          9 
  7-7   NW Series (4th Match) v Eng at Nottingham (d/n), 2005 [2252]
         1  A Flintoff             c Habibul Bashar            17 
  8-9   1st ODI v SL at Colombo (SSC), 2005/06 [2275]
         1  WU Tharanga            bowled                      60 
         1  KC Sangakkara          c Shahriar Nafees           22 
 10-10  2nd ODI v SL at Bogra, 2005/06 [2336]
         1  KHRK Fernando          lbw                          3 
 11-11  ICC Dev (1st Match) v Ber at St John's, 2006/07 [2528]
         1  JJ Tucker              c Mohammad Rafique          31
Ash's Wickets
Code:

Wickets Inn Batsman                Dismissal                 Runs

  1-1   3rd ODI v Zim at Bulawayo, 2000/01 [1706]
         1  A Flower               c Mohammad Sharif           81 
  2-2   3rd ODI v SL at Colombo (RPS), 2002 [1859]
         1  TM Dilshan             c Mohammad Rafique          50 
  3-5   ICC CT (12th Match) v NZ at Colombo (SSC), 2002/03 [1885]
         1  MS Sinclair            c Mohammad Rafique          70 
         1  CZ Harris              c +Khaled Mashud            26 
         1  JDP Oram               c Tushar Imran              30 
  6-7   1st ODI v WI at Chittagong (MAA), 2002/03 [1904]
         1  RR Sarwan              c Alok Kapali               39 
         1  RD Jacobs              c Tapash Baisya             10 
  8-8   TVS (BD) (4th Match) v Ind at Dhaka (d/n), 2003 [2004]
         2  AV Kale                c Khaled Mahmud             10 
  9-10  1st ODI v Ken at Bogra, 2005/06 [2350]
         2  T Mishra               st +Khaled Mashud           43 
         2  PJ Ongondo             c Abdur Razzak              10 
There aren't many cheap wickets in that list now look at Rajib
Code:

 1-1   1st ODI v Ken at Bogra, 2005/06 [2350]
         2  HS Modi                c Aftab Ahmed                1 
  2-2   4th ODI v Ken at Fatullah, 2005/06 [2356]
         1  MA Ouma                lbw                         16 
  3-5   1st ODI v Zim at Harare, 2006 [2392]
         2  V Sibanda              bowled                      22 
         2  H Masakadza            c Mohammad Ashraful          7 
         2  S Matsikenyeri         c Mashrafe Mortaza          89 
  6-8   2nd ODI v Zim at Harare, 2006 [2393]
         2  CJ Chibhabha           c +Khaled Mashud             4 
         2  BRM Taylor             bowled                      14 
         2  NB Mahwire             c Abdur Razzak              13 
  9-11  3rd ODI v Zim at Harare, 2006 [2394]
         2  TV Mufambisi           c +Khaled Mashud             8 
         2  E Chigumbura           lbw                          0 
         2  P Utseya               c +Khaled Mashud             0 
 12-12  1st ODI v Zim at Khulna, 2006/07 [2453]
         1  E Chigumbura           bowled                      31 
 13-13  2nd ODI v Zim at Bogra (d/n), 2006/07 [2457]
         1  BRM Taylor             c Mashrafe Mortaza           1 
 14-15  3rd ODI v Zim at Bogra (d/n), 2006/07 [2459]
         2  BRM Taylor             bowled                       1 
         2  H Masakadza            c Saqibul Hasan              2 
 16-17  4th ODI v Zim at Dhaka, 2006/07 [2461]
         1  SC Williams            lbw                          0 
         1  KM Dabengwa            bowled                      32 
 18-20  1st ODI v Sco at Chittagong (CDS), 2006/07 [2465]
         1  NS Poonia              c Aftab Ahmed                0 
         1  GM Hamilton            c Habibul Bashar            29 
         1  NFI McCallum           lbw                          0 
 21-21  2nd ODI v Sco at Dhaka, 2006/07 [2467]
         2  GM Hamilton            bowled                      12 
 22-22  1st ODI v Zim at Harare, 2006/07 [2505]
         2  T Duffin               bowled                       2 
 23-23  4th ODI v Zim at Harare, 2006/07 [2518]
         1  F Kasteni              bowled                       9 
 24-24  ICC Dev (3rd Match) v Can at St John's, 2006/07 [2530]
         2  A Bagai                c Mashrafe Mortaza           0 
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12.6 Syed Rasel to Sangakkara, OUT: What a delivery, completely fooled Sangakkara, first five delivery were the outswingers and now, this one comes in sharply, Sangakkara tries to left it and ball hits the off stump, top class bowling!
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  #15  
Old March 27, 2007, 07:41 AM
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But Ash & Aftab both are spinners, they don't solve the requirement of a pacer. They are expensive also.
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  #16  
Old March 27, 2007, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
But Ash & Aftab both are spinners, they don't solve the requirement of a pacer. They are expensive also.
.........are you out of your mind? Aftab is a spinner?
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  #17  
Old March 27, 2007, 02:02 AM
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Most of us want Rajib to play .... but who should he replace? Back to square # 1

I think we can drop Aftab and use him as 12th man constantly in the field for one player or the other.
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  #18  
Old March 27, 2007, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zakirc
Most of us want Rajib to play .... but who should he replace? Back to square # 1

I think we can drop Aftab and use him as 12th man constantly in the field for one player or the other.
Aftab or Nafees; Both are in Bad form. Both looks strugling on inswinger. Aftab can contribute in the field; but you have a good idea for that.

I also think; Nafees can do better if he is dropped for a match or two and fix up his inswinging problem and feet movement. He is good no doubt if he is in form.

Yes, I would love to see BD armed with a 3rd pacer; Strong bowling should be our key with bigger teams.
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  #19  
Old March 27, 2007, 07:44 AM
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Nope, now all the teams left, they are better against pacer than spinner. When we went with 2 spinner against SL, we have no reason to go with one less against any other team.
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  #20  
Old March 27, 2007, 07:53 AM
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I also think they need a sixth bowler. But whom to drop? It's really hard. I got a wild idea. Lets bench Bashar!!!! LOL
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  #21  
Old March 27, 2007, 08:05 AM
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I believe you guys didn't watch the SA and AUS game. Did you see them how they play against quality pacers of both team. Also they can use their feet to judge ball's line and lengthy pefectly than any of our batsmen (SN, Aftab etc.). 30 overs of SLA will be so predictable that they will just need 30 delivaries to score 100+ runs. But currently we have no option because the allrounder of our team has been significantly reduced. And now we don't have any quality allrounder. Even if any of our top order could have contributed with the ball(except Saqib) we could have rest one of our SLA and take Shahadat.
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  #22  
Old March 27, 2007, 08:06 AM
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rajib and rasel will be easy picking for the aussies
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  #23  
Old March 27, 2007, 08:52 AM
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Unfortunately little scope for additional Pacer. So far we know what we have in the bowling side; if not great its kind of ok.

But its the batting side that is still the question mark. So far against Inida the taget was below 200, against Sri Lanka we fumbled with the batting. Against Bermuda it was not fully tested. In a batting pitch, can we consistantly score 250+? We don't know yet. However its fair to say most likely not. I would say may be in the 180-230 range. So I would be very uncomfortable reducing one more batsman before they start proving that they can score 240-260 range without one additional batsman.


Now what are the options left for bowling change?

1. Adding Shahadat replacing Razzak or Rafique.
Drawback: It's a risky business bowling wise as well as batting wise. Compromising batting strength. So far spinners have done better than expected and Shahadat is inconsistent.

2. Adding Shahadat replacing Rasel.
Drawback: We know what we will gat out of Rasel. But Shahadat is a big question mark. We didn't tried him for a while, and when we tried he was too expensive. Can we trust he can finish his 10 overs without giving close to 100 runs?


Either Rasel or Shahdat plays, I think they both will bleed too many runs if we trust 10 overs from them. So I think we seriously need to some-how bring Afatb in the equation. I know he gave 17 runs against Bermuda. But it was just one over they tried in the whole tour. Somehow we need to squeeze few overs from Aftab. And its Bashar's job to make it happen ... finding few overs here and there for Aftab. Bashar needs to come out of his shell and nneds to be a little bit more creative and risk taker.
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  #24  
Old March 27, 2007, 08:37 AM
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Yeah, no hope to intimidate Aussie batting with Shahadat or Rajib, bet your money on Razzak and Rafiq, spin is the weak spot.
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  #25  
Old March 27, 2007, 08:49 AM
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If I am not mistaken I was hearing (from the thread starter) to drop SN (opener) or Aftab (1st Down) for Shahadat (who plays at 11). Are you out of your mind????

I am going to kill this thread now. Once for all.

Our bowling strength is as par or better than current India or Pakistan.
Our batting is way below than India.

So you guys want to make the batting lineup weaker and and in the process add very little to the bowling lineup as a sixth bowler??? Why???

Did any of you guys consider the lineup before suggesting this trade???

5 bowlers, WK, 4 batsmen, 1 alrounder?? On top them 4 batsmen have Tamim, and would have either SN/Aftab who are having a bad time. Your approach for the team is weak. You guys are just Shahadat fan and want to see him in action instead of wanting the team's success. Stop this madness. Get your priority right. Even Australia has a lineup of 7 (batsmen) and 4 (bowlers).

And for those same SLA dosage: wake up. Each have different bowling variations. All three of them.

If Australia can score 377 on SA where the fielders must have saved 30/40 runs why do you worry if Bangladesh gets a licking to 350+ or something???
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