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  #1  
Old November 14, 2003, 12:26 PM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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Default Statistics: Last innings hero in a losing cause: Tintin?

I want to know who has scored the most pecentage of team total in either a 4th innings or 3rd innings (team second innings) in a losing cause, i.e., the team lost all the wickets and lost the match but this guy almost always is the battling hero.

Instead of just averages, I am thinkng percentage of team total because that, in my opinion, lends more credibility to the term "third/fourth innings gladiator" (for a lost cause nonetheless).

Choosing just the lost matches was also deliberate, because it's only in these cases all the batsmen in the team played and were dismissed (not counting declared innings, but they are exceedingly rare).

I guess we can call this the "the batsman least likely to fold and likely to contribute the most to the team total when the team is facing defeat" stat. In a sense, he really IS the key batsman of the team; he is the one who delivers the most in crunch time, when the going really gets tough, even when the team loses the match.

In other words, using an example, when Brian Lara is going to bat in the team's second innings, on average he is likely to score 18.92% of his team's runs at an average of around 39, even (and especially) if his team loses.

He might do even better in the team 2nd innings when his team wins. But we are not counting those here.

The tally so far for some well-known batsmen (player with better percentage placed higher)

Donald Bradman (AUS): 23.66% (11 innings) 558 runs @ 50.12
Brian Lara (WI): 18.98% (41 innings) 1621 runs @ 39.53
Habibul Bashar (BD): 18.72% (25) 857 runs @ 34.28
Sunil Gavaskar (IND): 17.27% (34) 1299 runs @ 38.20
Alan Border (AUS): 16.55% (46) 1589 runs @ 40.74
Sachin Tendulkar (IND): 15.54% (31) 989 runs @ 31.90
Javed Miandad (PAK): 15.16% (23) 730 runs @ 31.74
Gary Sobers (WI): 13.21% (24) 717 runs @ 29.87
Rahul Dravid (IND): 11.47% (24) 566 runs @ 23.58


[Edited on 15-11-2003 by Arnab]
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  #2  
Old November 14, 2003, 01:39 PM
Tintin Tintin is offline
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I am at work, so cannot browse around too much at the moment.

The starting point would be the site howstat.com.au. In the statistics/batting section there is a list of all batsmen who have scored more than 50% of a completed innings. We'll find our man there. I'll do that once I get home, if you haven't completed it by then.

One interesting entry to look for would be Asif Iqbal in the Oval test of 1967. Pakistan was 55/8 in the second innings (not sure whether it was followon, though), Asif coming in at No.8 was involved in a world record stand of 190 for the ninth wicket and scored 146 - some 55% of the total.
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  #3  
Old November 14, 2003, 01:48 PM
Tintin Tintin is offline
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This is the link : http://howstat.com.au/cricket/Statis...g50Percent.asp

The highest seems to be Laxman

Asif came in at No. 9

[Edited on 14-11-2003 by Tintin]
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  #4  
Old November 14, 2003, 02:04 PM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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Nice.

I was going for a more career aggregate kinda thing, though. But I realize that would be very tough.
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  #5  
Old November 14, 2003, 02:12 PM
Tintin Tintin is offline
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Let's see whether we can do it for the big guys. There's a weekend ahead

So it is like the %of India's runs in the second innings that SRT scored, in the matches that we lost ?
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  #6  
Old November 14, 2003, 02:16 PM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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I actually became interested in this particular stat after reading S rajesh's article on cricinfo today.

Instead of averages, I was thinkng percentage of team total because that, in my opinion, lends more credibility to the term "fourth/third innings gladiator." (for a lost cause nonetheless)

Choosing the lost matches was also deliberate, because it's only in these cases all the batsmen in the team played and were dismissed.

I think we can pick players from S Rajesh's list and compare them in this manner.
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  #7  
Old November 14, 2003, 02:21 PM
oracle oracle is offline
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Interesting, also demonstrates the allrounders capability to turn around the match for a team.
1979 England v India - 3rd Test
I Botham 137/50%. Match drawn because of this guy.
This match reminds me of Botham in another subsequent occasion showing how the allrounder was a lynchpin of England mid order for a long time.

Follow on- Batting out the rest of the match to salvage a draw is the best you can hope for.
Headingley in 1981- Australia made 401, dismissed England for 174 and enforced the follow-on.
England were 135-7. Ian Botham took over the game with a century. England eventually totals 356, leaving Australia 130 to win. Bob Willis bowls and England wins the game.

Hey but J Omar is also in the list.
2000-2001 Zimbabwe v Bangladesh - 1st Test
J Omar 2nd inns 85. 50% of the total.
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  #8  
Old November 14, 2003, 02:21 PM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tintin
Let's see whether we can do it for the big guys. There's a weekend ahead

So it is like the %of India's runs in the second innings that SRT scored, in the matches that we lost ?
Precisely. I have done it for SRT and Lara so far. Correctly, I think. We can cross check.

Sachin has played in 31 such innings. He scored 989 runs whereas the team scored 6366.

Sachin's percentage of team total: 15.54 %

Lara has played in 41 such innings. He scored 1621 runs whereas the team scored 8540 runs.

Lara's percentage of team total: 18.98%

------------

I would like to see how the likes of Gavaskar and Boycott hold up to this "carrying the most burden when the going gets tough" stats.

[Edited on 14-11-2003 by Arnab]
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  #9  
Old November 14, 2003, 02:44 PM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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Darvid has played in 24 such innings.

He scored 566 out of India's 4934.

Percentage: 11.47%


Not really the "Mr. Dependable" when it's REALLY tough, is he?


[Edited on 14-11-2003 by Arnab]
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  #10  
Old November 14, 2003, 02:58 PM
Tintin Tintin is offline
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Wonder what Bashar's % is. Should be quite high
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  #11  
Old November 14, 2003, 03:13 PM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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Miandad:

number of such innings = 23

miandad scored = 730

team scored = 4814

percentage = 15.16%
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  #12  
Old November 14, 2003, 03:24 PM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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Habibul Bashar Sumon:

Innings: 25

Sumon scored: 857 runs

Team scored: 4576 runs

Sumon's percentage: 18.72%


----------

Better than sachin and miandad, almost as good as lara.

[Edited on 14-11-2003 by Arnab]
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  #13  
Old November 14, 2003, 03:50 PM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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Sunil Gavaskar:

Innings: 34

Scored: 1299 runs

Team scored: 7522 runs

Percentage: 17.27%
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  #14  
Old November 14, 2003, 07:14 PM
Tintin Tintin is offline
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AR Border

46 innings

Runs : 1589 Ave : 40.74

Australia : 9603

Percentage : 16.55%
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  #15  
Old November 14, 2003, 08:13 PM
Tintin Tintin is offline
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GS Sobers

25 matches 717 at 29.87 [24 innings, one was a declaration]

WI : 5428 in the 24 innings

13.21%
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  #16  
Old November 14, 2003, 08:23 PM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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I am doing it like this:

Do two seperate statsguru queries: one for the player, another for the country during his playing period.

Filter both the queries with "team 2nd innings"and "match lost" checked.

The results page comes up with both the player's country and the opposition 2nd innings totals. In both cases. But we want only the player innings (for the first query) and the country total (for the 2nd query).

Clicking on the R/W column heading sorts out the country and the player's innings only, in corresponding query results.

Then copy those two lists as txt files. Delete the entries of tests from the country list which the player did not play in. Now the player innings list and the country innings list should have the same number of entries.

Open text files in excel. delimit accordingly.

Add up the country totals.

Add up player totals.

Calculate percentage and other stats.
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  #17  
Old November 14, 2003, 08:48 PM
Tintin Tintin is offline
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Same here, but slight modifications.

>> The results page comes up with both the player's country and the opposition 2nd innings totals. In both cases.

For the player, we can directly use the aggregate that statsguru provides. I create .txt only for the country.

Player stats is generated with the 'show missing matches'. Look at 'DNP' entries in the statsguru for player and delete the corresponding ones from the country file.

The rest is the same
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  #18  
Old November 14, 2003, 09:13 PM
Tintin Tintin is offline
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Oops ! I was looking for the third and fourth innings together.
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  #19  
Old November 14, 2003, 09:18 PM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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What do you mean? It could be third or fourth innings of the match.
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  #20  
Old November 14, 2003, 09:25 PM
Tintin Tintin is offline
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Sorry. I got confused.

Just read the article in cricinfo. It has just the fourth innings and SMG has 33 innings. When I saw your tally for SMG, I thought that it was just for fourth innings - forgot that our criterions are different.
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  #21  
Old November 14, 2003, 09:40 PM
Tintin Tintin is offline
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DG Bradman

12 tests, 11 innings, 558, 50.12

Australia (11 inns) : 2358

Percentage : 23.66
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