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  #1  
Old October 18, 2008, 03:33 PM
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Default Expat possibly moving back to Bangladesh: question about work opportunities

I have lived in the US for almost a decade, and got my undergrad and MBA degrees here. Now the time has come for me to decide where I want to settle down.

I would have settled down here in the US, except I hate living away from my family (my parents and siblings). It didn't affect me as much when I was younger, but now, since I am thinking of settling down, I would at least want to have the opportunity of having them around me if they so desire. To do so, if I decide to settle down in the US, would take far too long.

So I have been considering moving back to Bangladesh. What I am wondering is how the job market is in Bangladesh. I know the economy is in the shitter and unemployment has never not been a problem there, but for expats who have explored the option of moving back or have already moved back, what's your experience been? I know some of our fellow BCers have moved back; do you pretty much have to resort to working for your family business or something along those lines? Is there a formal job market in Bangladesh? What do you do when you are/were job hunting? What about headhunters? I am assuming there are no careerbuilder, theladder or other internet job search websites that cater to the Bangladeshi market; so what avenues should I focus on?


Also, I haven't been to Bangladesh in over five years. I know I should expect to see some change in Dhaka; anything major I should know about? Any and all help is appreciated.
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  #2  
Old October 18, 2008, 03:41 PM
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I have been doing some research online, since I know very few people in real life who have moved back to Bangladesh. That traffic is usually pretty much one way.

I found a few blogs (and forums), of which I thought this was the most detailed: http://backtobangladesh.blogspot.com...1_archive.html

I know some of you have moved back to Bangladesh for good (Sydney and mwrkhan, I am talking about you). Advice? What's your experience been like?
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  #3  
Old October 18, 2008, 05:00 PM
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Well I am really glad that u are atleast contemplating the idea of moving back to Bangladesh. I really feel that our country neeeds experts on all disciplines. While the pay in Bangladesh will never be as lucrative as north america it is still howver worth going back.
I am currently ding my undergrads in Canada. While I am sure that bangladesh will never even pay me 10% the money that I can earn here howver I am going back for sure. I just have 1 life and It is more important for me to live this life with the people who love me the most and whom I love the most. I am sure it is a much harder decision if u are merried but I am sure it is not impossible.....


Please go back....the gain is worth the pain...
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  #4  
Old October 18, 2008, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
Well I am really glad that u are atleast contemplating the idea of moving back to Bangladesh. I really feel that our country neeeds experts on all disciplines. While the pay in Bangladesh will never be as lucrative as north america it is still howver worth going back.
I am currently ding my undergrads in Canada. While I am sure that bangladesh will never even pay me 10% the money that I can earn here howver I am going back for sure. I just have 1 life and It is more important for me to live this life with the people who love me the most and whom I love the most. I am sure it is a much harder decision if u are merried but I am sure it is not impossible.....


Please go back....the gain is worth the pain...
HereWeGo, you are right. I'd definitely have to take a huge paycut if I move to Bangladesh but I am willing to do so as long as it's reasonable. I'd been passively investigating the move for a few months, but right now, I would really like to explore all avenues and see what's out there. Thank you for the encouragement. I am not married; however, I am in a relationship and I realize I'd probably have to end it before I move. I'm ok with that. Family comes before everything else, so if it's a sacrifice I have to make, so be it. I wish you the best and hopefully, both you and I will be able to move back to Bangladesh soon.
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  #5  
Old October 18, 2008, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhurr
I am assuming there are no careerbuilder, theladder or other internet job search websites that cater to the Bangladeshi market; so what avenues should I focus on?
http://www.bdjobs.com/

This website is quite old and serving well.
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  #6  
Old October 18, 2008, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
http://www.bdjobs.com/

This website is quite old and serving well.
Thanks, Miraz Bhai. I used to browse both that site and bd.jobstreet.com a few months ago, just to get an idea of what's out there. It's scary; for the jobs that do mention the wages, you are looking at 8k-15k Taka/month with an MBA. Also, some of the jobs ask you to send your pictures, which just sounds shady as hell, but I figured that's just the Bangladeshi way of doing business; what I still think is shady is when they say certain jobs are for female candidates only, and those jobs ask for pictures every single time.

Right now, I am mulling a few options, from teaching in a private university to teaching in an English-medium school to working in broadcast media to working for an MNC. It's discouraging at times, but I'm not willing to give up so soon.
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  #7  
Old October 18, 2008, 08:14 PM
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I would say...
Think what you would able to give instead What you are going to get. If you really want to settle. Otherwise bangladesh doesn't need you and later you wont feel it was worth to settle in Bangladesh.

You will know what i meant.
I will collaborate later if you do not know what i mean.
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  #8  
Old October 21, 2008, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Knockout_U
I would say...
Think what you would able to give instead What you are going to get. If you really want to settle. Otherwise bangladesh doesn't need you and later you wont feel it was worth to settle in Bangladesh.

You will know what i meant.
I will collaborate later if you do not know what i mean.
Thank you for your post. I am just a regular guy who wants to live closer to his family; high-minded ideals are slightly lower in my list of priorities.
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  #9  
Old October 18, 2008, 09:53 PM
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First of, congrats on your decision.... hopefully I'll be able to make this decision when my time comes (as HereWeGo said, we just have 1 life....)

abt the job market and the job search things, I think things have changed. corporate dhaka is quite matured now and my friends (graduating from IBA, Dhaka university) have the options of working for some multinational and telecom companies. the job is challenging given that (the market is Bangladesh) and someone with a MBA degree from north america should get a 'decent' salaried job. The concept of investment banking is also flourishing in Dhaka. There are several ibanks now, and my friends were even talking about banks like wachovia (before the whole financial collapse ofcourse) starting operation in BD. Citibank has grown pretty big in Bangladesh (rumor has it, the head of citibank bangladesh gets paid 16 lakh/month or sth ridiculous like that).

Yea in Bangladesh, the problem of 'getting hold of a connection' is still the biggest drawback especially when you are applying from abroad, but most of the companies have websites and contact emails (and they do check emails!!!).

One of my good highschool friend (he used to be a member of this forum) just moved back to BD last month after finishing his ugrad/masters from texas. He is starting as a lecturer in NSU (in econ) from Jan and also trying to get into a consulting firm (cant remember the name), so he'll be earning some 'good' money as well as live in the 'luxury' of dhaka.

I'll be around in this thread to read all the responses.... best of luck ....
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  #10  
Old October 21, 2008, 04:54 PM
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Thank you all for your responses. I feel that since you all have put some so much thought and effort into your posts, I should respond to them individually instead of multi-quoting them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ialbd
First of, congrats on your decision.... hopefully I'll be able to make this decision when my time comes (as HereWeGo said, we just have 1 life....)

abt the job market and the job search things, I think things have changed. corporate dhaka is quite matured now and my friends (graduating from IBA, Dhaka university) have the options of working for some multinational and telecom companies. the job is challenging given that (the market is Bangladesh) and someone with a MBA degree from north america should get a 'decent' salaried job. The concept of investment banking is also flourishing in Dhaka. There are several ibanks now, and my friends were even talking about banks like wachovia (before the whole financial collapse ofcourse) starting operation in BD. Citibank has grown pretty big in Bangladesh (rumor has it, the head of citibank bangladesh gets paid 16 lakh/month or sth ridiculous like that).

Yea in Bangladesh, the problem of 'getting hold of a connection' is still the biggest drawback especially when you are applying from abroad, but most of the companies have websites and contact emails (and they do check emails!!!).

One of my good highschool friend (he used to be a member of this forum) just moved back to BD last month after finishing his ugrad/masters from texas. He is starting as a lecturer in NSU (in econ) from Jan and also trying to get into a consulting firm (cant remember the name), so he'll be earning some 'good' money as well as live in the 'luxury' of dhaka.

I'll be around in this thread to read all the responses.... best of luck ....
The trend is encouraging; I guess I'll find out the reality when I land in Dhaka. I've contacted some people in Dhaka, and the responses are usually in one of three categories:
- Are you insane? Don't move back.
- The country is proud of you. We need more people like you.
- First move to Dhaka and then we'll talk about job opportunities.

The first two responses don't really address my concerns, and the third kinda makes me wary. One of my main problems is that I have no idea where any of my high school friends are, and so I have to start networking from scratch when I land in Dhaka. I think I might end up teaching in a private university, just like your friend, and doing some consulting on the side.

Something I would like to explore is working in broadcast media. I have worked in the production side and given how many TV channels we have in Bangladesh now, I might be able to land something. We also have quite a few family friends who have been working in broadcast media in Bangladesh for decades, so that might be of use... who knows?
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  #11  
Old October 19, 2008, 03:51 AM
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I have a cousin whose husband, used to work for American Airlines. He applied for jobs while he was in USA. He got hired in Grameen Phone and had his interview taken via phone with a guy from New York. Obviously its a big paycut but its decent money compared to Bangladeshi standards. I also know of a guy who did his Undergrad in Economics and started work for Banglalink about a year or two ago. He now earns 80k with Banglalink. Now these two are the examples I am giving first because they got their jobs without an iota of "connection". There are other examples I know of but they got the jobs through connections.

The cousin's husband actually got the job through www.bdjobs.com the site Miraz bhai mentioned. I was in Dhaka for a few weeks this August and couple of my friends who are all now in the job market in Dhaka was telling me that getting jobs in Bangladesh is much easier with a Foreign Degree. However the best jobs are often not advertised and its word of mouth and recommendations that do the trick same like here in North America.

I would suggest try and look in your field of work. By this I mean if you worked in a bank here in USA then look for opportunities in Banks in Bangladesh and dont go apply in the telecom or other unrelated MNC's. I know this for sure that if you have banking experience in North America for about 2 to 3 years and actuallly know how things work in a bank then you can get into high level executive positions in Banks in Dhaka( maybe at the VP or SVP level) where the pay is decent. As far salary goes Banks and financial institutions like leasing companies have a pretty high salary scale compared to the Bangladesh standard of living. Since you have an MBA from USA it should not be too much of a problem for you to get into financial institutions. Regarding photos for resumes, I was told by my friends again that a lot depends on the way you look when you apply for jobs which is why they require you to have photos attached to your resume. One of my friend said he had applied to Banglalink 6 times but was never called for an interview and later found out through other sources that the recruiter did not like the way he looked. It sounded funny to me but apparently that is important !!! I think the main reason for photos might be to make sure you are presentable, I dont think they are looking for Brad pitt for all the jobs.

Since you have not been to dhaka for a while now it would take a lot of adjusting to do with the way things work there. I would suggest take all your vacation days and go for a vacation to dhaka this year or next year and talk with prospective employers in person just to check and see the kind of response you get. You will also be able to adjust to dhaka while on vacation there. This would make the transition to dhaka from USA easier rather than just deciding to leave USA and resign from your job and go to Dhaka one fine day.

I am very eager to hear what happens with you after you go to dhaka and also to find out what other people in Dhaka are finding jobs. I also dont want to be without my family for too long of a time and might have to take such a decision in 5 years time. I still have to do my MBA before I leave so I have to wait for a little while more if I do relocate.
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Old October 21, 2008, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by layperson
I have a cousin whose husband, used to work for American Airlines. He applied for jobs while he was in USA. He got hired in Grameen Phone and had his interview taken via phone with a guy from New York. Obviously its a big paycut but its decent money compared to Bangladeshi standards. I also know of a guy who did his Undergrad in Economics and started work for Banglalink about a year or two ago. He now earns 80k with Banglalink. Now these two are the examples I am giving first because they got their jobs without an iota of "connection". There are other examples I know of but they got the jobs through connections.

The cousin's husband actually got the job through www.bdjobs.com the site Miraz bhai mentioned. I was in Dhaka for a few weeks this August and couple of my friends who are all now in the job market in Dhaka was telling me that getting jobs in Bangladesh is much easier with a Foreign Degree. However the best jobs are often not advertised and its word of mouth and recommendations that do the trick same like here in North America.

I would suggest try and look in your field of work. By this I mean if you worked in a bank here in USA then look for opportunities in Banks in Bangladesh and dont go apply in the telecom or other unrelated MNC's. I know this for sure that if you have banking experience in North America for about 2 to 3 years and actuallly know how things work in a bank then you can get into high level executive positions in Banks in Dhaka( maybe at the VP or SVP level) where the pay is decent. As far salary goes Banks and financial institutions like leasing companies have a pretty high salary scale compared to the Bangladesh standard of living. Since you have an MBA from USA it should not be too much of a problem for you to get into financial institutions. Regarding photos for resumes, I was told by my friends again that a lot depends on the way you look when you apply for jobs which is why they require you to have photos attached to your resume. One of my friend said he had applied to Banglalink 6 times but was never called for an interview and later found out through other sources that the recruiter did not like the way he looked. It sounded funny to me but apparently that is important !!! I think the main reason for photos might be to make sure you are presentable, I dont think they are looking for Brad pitt for all the jobs.

Since you have not been to dhaka for a while now it would take a lot of adjusting to do with the way things work there. I would suggest take all your vacation days and go for a vacation to dhaka this year or next year and talk with prospective employers in person just to check and see the kind of response you get. You will also be able to adjust to dhaka while on vacation there. This would make the transition to dhaka from USA easier rather than just deciding to leave USA and resign from your job and go to Dhaka one fine day.

I am very eager to hear what happens with you after you go to dhaka and also to find out what other people in Dhaka are finding jobs. I also dont want to be without my family for too long of a time and might have to take such a decision in 5 years time. I still have to do my MBA before I leave so I have to wait for a little while more if I do relocate.
I am no Brad Pitt but if I let my hair grow a bit and dress up ishtylishly, I might be able to pass for a younger Ilyas Kanchon. Would that work? In all seriousness though, what I found hilariously creepy was that every job that was reserved for women asked for pictures, whereas the ones without restriction only asked for them every once in a while.

I know of a few people who are successful in Bangladesh with degrees from abroad, but they all have serious connections. Two who are bigshots in telecom, one in banking... all of their dads are/were politicians. I am hoping those are exceptions and the cases you are talking about are the norm.

I am considering going to Dhaka on vacation but I am afraid if I do, without a clear goal in mind, I would end up deciding I want to settle down here permanently. Since you live in North America, I am sure you can identify with some of my problems. I am in my late 20s, and although there is a litany of things someone my age can do here in his personal time, it's much more restrictive in Dhaka. There's not much of a night life, and I felt that the last time I went home. It's gonna be even harder now, since most people in my age group are married, and I don't know if I want to hang out with college kids. That would be... uhh... weird. Since I don't know where my high-school friends are, my parents and my siblings are pretty much the only companions I'd have in Dhaka, and that means I'd have to start my life all over again the moment I move. If I didn't have a demanding career which kept me occupied, while leaving some precious time for my family, I think I would go nuts.

The positives are there though. I get to live in my country again. I get to be around my own family again. I get to eat Bangladeshi food, travel through Bangladesh, watch cricket live in a stadium etc. I'll keep you updated if I end up moving there.
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Old October 19, 2008, 05:20 AM
Banglatiger84 Banglatiger84 is offline
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If you are going back in order to stay with your family, I would say its the right decision. Some people find it difficult financially if they dont have a strong base in BD (family businesses, etc.)

Others find it ok if they get a good job, which can fetch more than 1-2 lk monthly. Note, if you have kids in the future, it may not be possible to survive solely on a salary of even 80k, as most things (except food) are quite expensive.....

If you get into a good bank, you will get salaries in lakhs within a few years, so money shouldnt be a problem.

Also I have noticed people working in foreign banks in BD do get paid well, however they often have no social life because of extremely strenous working hours, 12 hour days being common during busy weeks. Then again, I am talking about people in late 20's and early 30's. Not sure whether it applies to people in senior positions.

Also, given that you have already spent a few years in the USA, dont be surprised if you get reverse culture shock due to the the horrible traffic, infrastructure. But if your family is more important, I am sure you will learn to bear it

One last thing, if you do move back, its not uncommon to feel disillusioned after spending 6 months with your family, a lot of people feel like returning abroad, but you just have to hang in there and count your blessings in such a case !
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Old October 21, 2008, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banglatiger84
If you are going back in order to stay with your family, I would say its the right decision. Some people find it difficult financially if they dont have a strong base in BD (family businesses, etc.)

Others find it ok if they get a good job, which can fetch more than 1-2 lk monthly. Note, if you have kids in the future, it may not be possible to survive solely on a salary of even 80k, as most things (except food) are quite expensive.....

If you get into a good bank, you will get salaries in lakhs within a few years, so money shouldnt be a problem.

Also I have noticed people working in foreign banks in BD do get paid well, however they often have no social life because of extremely strenous working hours, 12 hour days being common during busy weeks. Then again, I am talking about people in late 20's and early 30's. Not sure whether it applies to people in senior positions.

Also, given that you have already spent a few years in the USA, dont be surprised if you get reverse culture shock due to the the horrible traffic, infrastructure. But if your family is more important, I am sure you will learn to bear it

One last thing, if you do move back, its not uncommon to feel disillusioned after spending 6 months with your family, a lot of people feel like returning abroad, but you just have to hang in there and count your blessings in such a case !
Thank you for your well thought-out post. You pretty much covered everything I was worried about.

You are right on about the financial issue. Right now, I might be able to survive on 30k/month in Dhaka and teaching at North South University might sound very lucrative, but a few years down the road, it might not be enough. Although I don't plan on getting married soon and don't plan on having kids, these things change with time, so who knows.

Banks, private universities, TV channels... looks like those might be the primary options for me. I hear you on the long hours, but that's kinda what I want, so I think I'll be OK if that happens.

Yes, I am worried about reverse culture shock. The blog link I posted earlier belongs to a Bangladeshi guy who lived in the US for three decades before he decided to move back for good. It's a pretty interesting and informative read for anyone who wants to know more about this issue, and you can kinda feel what he is dealing with every day. It's an interesting take, and some of things he says makes me feel that I'll be prepared for it and I'll be OK. Some of the other things he says makes me wary... but yes, if I decide to make the move, I won't back out easily Inshallah.
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Old October 22, 2008, 12:26 PM
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Dear Dhurr, its nice to hear that you are contemplating the idea of re-locating back to Dhaka.
(Btw, you know me but is still to give me your identity)!!

Sorry i would have replied to this thread earlier if i have noticed. Yes, i think i'd be in a better position to answer your questions since i've gone through the whole phase, and somewhat, is still going.

A lot been answered already, but the most comforting part of your whole moving back thing is that you seem to have a good understanding about what you are about to face.

Sorry i'm running a little low on writing a big post here, because a bit tired now, but i'd update you from time to time.
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Old October 23, 2008, 04:57 AM
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I also read the backtobangladesh blog, its quite nicely written. However on a related note, its not uncommon for people in their 50's, who have spent 20+ years in the USA to actually overlook many of the inconveniences that someone in their 30's wouldnt.

They get tired of living abroad, and come back to Bangladesh after having secured their finances and as such are free to enjoy living in BD and not worry about things that would make a 30 yr old mad (kids schooling, rising costs etc,)

Again, that said, family is a very important reason, and while I dont know your situation, if one parent , God forbid, has some chronic illness, it does tend to make more sense to go back so that once can be close to him/her. No money in the world can compensate for a parent.....
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Old October 23, 2008, 08:46 AM
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Dear Dhurr,
don't come back. This country would spirally go down. Like you I returned home with high hope of change the society. From my heart I really believed "Don't ask what the country do for you, but ask what you can do for the country". I returned twice. First time I was in a dilema whether to return or not. Second time I was determined to return; feeling that the poor country invested on me, so at least I should return something to the country. Financially I am as solvent as I like but I am not at all happy with my surroundings.
I feel I do not belongs to this country. The country belongs to the Nizamis, Aminis and some illiterate morons who called themselves 'conscience' of the country. How could you justified some so called teachers would resist admission test if 'requirement' is not relaxed ; how could you justified government is caving in demands of 30 somethings to dismantle a sculpture or ban a concert program; how could you justify government is negotialting with some acused when police is reporting to the court that he is absconding; politicians are barking how they are going to change the society by wild accusation and wild praise . and all these are tips of iceburg.
Now a days I am so much frusted with all these 'is staying in the country worth at all?' I fail to differentaite between Bangladesh and Pakistan. We are spiral towards Talibanism with more subtle way.
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Old October 23, 2008, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebest
Dear Dhurr,

....

I feel I do not belongs to this country. The country belongs to the Nizamis, Aminis and some illiterate morons who called themselves 'conscience' of the country. How could you justified some so called teachers would resist admission test if 'requirement' is not relaxed ; how could you justified government is caving in demands of 30 somethings to dismantle a sculpture or ban a concert program; how could you justify government is negotialting with some acused when police is reporting to the court that he is absconding; politicians are barking how they are going to change the society by wild accusation and wild praise . and all these are tips of iceburg.
Now a days I am so much frusted with all these 'is staying in the country worth at all?' I fail to differentaite between Bangladesh and Pakistan. We are spiral towards Talibanism with more subtle way.
Actually BD is following Paki in all respect, politics, army, ... This trend is really worrying ...
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Old October 23, 2008, 09:29 AM
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Dear thebest,
Our country is not perfect, not even close to perfect but that doesnt mean u stop loving it. U have raised some valid points abt the rise of militancy in the name of Islam. However I can still see some positives. Jamaatis are forced to change the partys chater according to the countries constituion. They are forced to recognize the great independence. Mujaheed will have to surrender to court in another weeks tiime. Militant kingpin like Bangla bhai is history now. While the government has removed the baul statue, it however can never remove the love for baul songs from the hearts and minds of ordinary bengali people. The popularity of Anusheh(bangla), and Arnob is a testament to that fact.

On the economic front our country has gotten stronger recently. Our currency devaluated the least in the last couple of years compared to India and Pakistan. From 100 indian rupee= 161 Bd tk in start of 2007 it has now dropped to 140 tk.
BD tk is now stronger than pakistani rupee also.

Bangladesh is a peoples republic and not an Islamic state like Pakistan. Lastly you don abandon your loved one in times of crisis. You should never abandon your country either. We fought the great liberation and freed ourselves from tyrants once.These islamic militants cant do S@#^
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Old October 23, 2008, 09:54 AM
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HWG,
I can attest you that I love my country than before. I find it very encouraging when young and restless are doing their part to change the face of the country without or very little government help. The one I mentioned is well reported. I am fortunate (?) enough to sit in some of government programs; project committees. What I am seeing is the so called public servant think this country as their fiefdom. They are simply plundering the resources. Sometime forcing contractors to do something that would benefit themselves but would brought harm to the society. I saw sometime young guns of those contractors protest but often they muffled by their senior management because senior management know displeasing public servent and shooting your leg is same.
Even media is as corrupt as some of the politicians. I read complete opposite stories in newspapers where I have first hand knowledge in those stories.
You talked about Bangladesh is people's republic and Pakistan is Islamic Republic and Jamat changed. You are right. I do not know when you were last time in Bangladesh. Now a days I find more Ninjas in Dhaka then in Karachi in 1994; Every Juma is virtually a day for those fundies to show their muscle powers. Regarding Jamat you can call a crocodile an allegator but it would still kill you.
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  #21  
Old October 23, 2008, 10:07 AM
Banglatiger84 Banglatiger84 is offline
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Its paranoia to think that BD is becoming talebanized. Some people hate any sign of Islam, they dont like seeing Hijab wearing people and beards and its wrong to take that as a sign of being "Talebanized". I would be worried when fundos start enforcing their version of Islam by force on others, till then theres nothing to pani cover a few thousand of them marching for some reason or the other

Now coming to BD and Pakistan, the reason why I am more optimistic about BD is that:

1) Terrorists in BD were promptly punished and by grace of Allah we didnt see any repeat ecently

2) All sections of society condemned the acts of Bangla Bhai, we didnt have sympathetic civilians like Pakistan

3) To date, I havent seen anything that resembles enforcement of Islamic laws by fundos.....

4) Yes, you have a few thousand marching against Ahmadias or Lalon statue some Fridays , but they are mostly harmless in that the police never allow them to cause chaos if their demands are not met, and also because our society is much less weaponized than Pakistan
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  #22  
Old October 23, 2008, 11:29 AM
thebest thebest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banglatiger84
Its paranoia to think that BD is becoming talebanized. Some people hate any sign of Islam, they dont like seeing Hijab wearing people and beards and its wrong to take that as a sign of being "Talebanized". I would be worried when fundos start enforcing their version of Islam by force on others, till then theres nothing to pani cover a few thousand of them marching for some reason or the other
Ok, I have no problem seeing Hijab. My mom maintain Hijab and so is most of my female relative. But does Hijab means wearing black burkha, forcing young girl as young as eight to wear gloves in this oppresing heat just because you are his father than I have problem. Fundos study two paper of Bangla and English while others study four papers. Now these fundos want us to treat them as equal otherwise they vandalize VC's bunglow, there surrogates resist admission test. Fundos want 'No Concer' and instantly administration obliged though they previously approve that; Government commissioned sculpture, after spending the money some fundos want that the sculpture should be dismantled and government caved in instantly. This is talibanization at instutional levels; and you are claiming I am paranoid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banglatiger84
Now coming to BD and Pakistan, the reason why I am more optimistic about BD is that:

1) Terrorists in BD were promptly punished and by grace of Allah we didnt see any repeat ecently

2) All sections of society condemned the acts of Bangla Bhai, we didnt have sympathetic civilians like Pakistan

3) To date, I havent seen anything that resembles enforcement of Islamic laws by fundos.....

4) Yes, you have a few thousand marching against Ahmadias or Lalon statue some Fridays , but they are mostly harmless in that the police never allow them to cause chaos if their demands are not met, and also because our society is much less weaponized than Pakistan
I respectfully disagree.
1. As recently as last week police apprenhended some fundies. Fundies already applied for registraton. I wonder how many misses the net. With coming political government I have doubt policing would be same again.
2. Is it? With so many people living below poverty line Bangladesh is a fertile ground for fundies to prosper. Bangla vai and co was patronize by sympathetic police officers adminsitrators and politicians is well documented. And all of them are still in their respective domain (except The Rajshai SP who was forced retired)and never brought to justice
3. You forgot about Baghmara the fiefdom of Bangla Vai and just few days ago I heard about how he ruled from one of the eye witness
4. Police don't need that because their demand are instantly met. Though you are right about the last one i.e. our society is less weaponized
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  #23  
Old October 25, 2008, 09:53 AM
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Shafin Shafin is offline
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Let me join in with my 2 cents.

Its sad the discussion has deviated from its original purpose. Its ugly seeing Bangladesh being compared with Pakistan. We separated in 1971 for a reason! Now on to your points, thebest:

1. Hijab: I agree with you. Forcing hijab on girls as young as 8 certainly is not advocated by islam. Hijab is for grown up girls and again, gloves are not really a part of it. However, you missed the point. I dont think Banglatiger was attacking you when he said "some people". There is certainly a very vocal minority who think lashing against anything with the practices of Islam attached to it makes them modernized. You might dislike hijab, but you have to respect other women's willingness to accept is, and to dismiss this acceptance as propaganda or brainwashing or lack of enlightenment is surely as bad as it can get. I do not like religious bigots, but I hate secular bigotry with a passion.

2.Dhaka University: Either you do not know the whole picture or you twisted the facts. First, when I said I hate secular bigotry with a passion, I hoped you would not be influenced by it. Either you are influenced, or you are misinformed. To categorize every Madrassah student as "Fundo". the funky word you are so fond of, is no less a smear than saying all Muslims are terrorists. Madrassah system has means of graduating , the Kamil degree, for those who want to pursue a complete Madrassah education. It's only those who seek to change their system midway through the studies who take up Univarsity education. The person is moving away from Madrassah study, towards a more westernized one, and you are trying to deny him that.

The consequences are far fetched than many of you might think. Ultimately, the person who would have finished up as a westernized one, finish up as a person you'd call "Fundo".Only because you denied him the chance. The departments that did this, they twisted the admission rules only to bar madrassah students. there is no other logical explanation. Is Bangla and English taught at Higher secondary level so much necessary for these departments? Any person who had studied the curricula should disagree. At A-level, most students study only 3 subjects, while we were subjected to 6. Did that make us more prepared? The Madrassah students didnt want to get free admission, they wanted a chance to show that they are worth.

And believe me, there are many. In the high ranking positions of the government there are many madrasah educated people who took this path, and many of them transformed, by there looks, there lifestyle, their children's lifestyle, you wont even know they were once madrassah educated. ther are even teachers in those concerned departments who are madrassah educated. Think about this situation, a village student who had to study in madrassah in lower levels, maybe forced, now wants to change his ways. Now that you'd deny him, he wont have a way to leave. This had been a case of secular bigots at their worst, trying to enforce their ways on everyone, purging everything that has the name of Islam attached to it.

Now on to the agitations. I condemn them. But to portray them as militants taking over dhaka is blatant scaremongering. When Chatra dal- Chatra league destroy campuses, there is no such outcry, and happens regularly. After a section of madrassah students took the wrong way to vent their angers out, the media propaganda of talibanism went to new heights. Had it been any other section who did this, there would not have been these outcries. This is victimization. Anyone does a crime, see it as a crime- a person with a beard does the same thing - you call it militant islam . Meh

3. Militancy: The violent part is largely subdued, and the instant action taken against them is Bangladesh is largely unmatched. Now, you can never assume that there is nobody left. But to think Bangladesh of being a place which is insecure because of these people are baseless and false. Had the militants succeeded in killing anyone lately? wounding anyone? Succeeded in threatening any infrastructure? More importantly, if you come to Bangladesh, what are the chances that you'll encounter a militant? Bangladeshi people is moderate, and they dont like or patronize militancy which abuses the name of Islam.Period.

4. Applying for registration: The previous logic applies here, too. These people are saying that they are trying to come back to normal life. If they oblige the rules and stay within them, they surely deserve a chance, though most probably they will not win a seat in the parliament and will be purged within the law. Now accusing anyone only because you have suspicion on his agenda and he has a battered past, is unethical. Read "La Miserable"? written by Victor Hugo, I know none who read the novel and was still unmoved by it. One of my favorites. If they wants to register and are within the law, let them register, and if they are unlawful, they'll get their reprisals.
Now only because they are muslims, these outcries are there. There are much more fundamentalist christian parties that participate and regularly win elections. Nobody says nothing. Look up the wiki page on london mayor Boris Johnson, for example and look what he said about the Quraan. If a muslim leader in BD said the same thing about Bible, I only wonder what would have happened to him.

5.Bangla Bhai: Bangla Bhai got support initially because he did what nobody else was able to do- take the battle against the leftist terrorists. Then he abused the popularity and his actual mission came to fore, and e lost the support. Now on to that, how many people bangla bhai killed and how many has been killed by the leftist terrorists? The newspapers turn a blind eye to the, even sometimes hero worship their theoretical leaders, but they had been terrorizing a big part of the party for a long time. Equality, my crap. When you burn alive humans in brick factories, thats equality, when you decapitate people and say "lal potaka jindabad", thats equality! Taking ransoms is equality! And only because they support the so called secularism, they are praised and their bad deeds are unreported by a quarter. Where are the so called buddhijibies when they recreate the scenes seen in only the Intellectual Day of 1971? And you'd think the people marching against a statue has more to threat you than these terroists?

Good thing is, government has taken action against these terrorists and most of the bigwigs had recently been killed, some were rehabilitated during the AL era. So I'd say a part f the country is actually better of on security aspects than before.

6.Statue: As I have said before, our society is moderate. How many people march during Fridays? A few thousand. there are 150 million people in dhaka. Of them, a few thousand are inclined to have hardline views, this is the same for religious people and secularists. Only the few thousand secularists are better represented. About their demand being instantly met, How many countries you would have where offending the major religions beliefs would not spark a protest. Dont go on the line about statues being a part of Bengali identity. They can be the part for you or some others, but not for me or numerous others. Just think about trying to have a cow slaughtering statue in India, or someting similar offending the christian faith in some christian majority country. The reaction would be the same, if not severe. But because the offended religion is in fact Islam, the propaganda machine clicks and tick-tacks. Islam does not forbid others to practice worshipping statues, but to show it as the identity of a nation with muslim majority is not to be applauded.

Spending tk 5 Crore on a statue? you can subsidize taka 10 each to 5 million Kg's of rice with the money in this inflated market.

In the internet, people with a mindset similar to me are not much represented so if you take sources where atheists burble on, removed from real life, to be representative of the general Bangladeshi people, you are mistaken. There are numerous Bangla sites who represent them, and the vocal minority finds a safe place to prod others there.

Extremely sorry to Dhurr for hijacking your thread. Apologies and if you decide to come back, best of luck to you.
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  #24  
Old October 27, 2008, 05:00 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shafin
2.Dhaka University: ... Madrassah system has means of graduating , the Kamil degree, for those who want to pursue a complete Madrassah education. It's only those who seek to change their system midway through the studies who take up Univarsity education. The person is moving away from Madrassah study, towards a more westernized one, and you are trying to deny him that.
While you recognize the necessity of 'the route' to university education for madrass student ... how come you not asking madrassa board to deliver required course for those students? Why an existing system have to lower the bar or standard to rescue those student while regular school students are taking those subjects to get a chance? Dont you think at first madrassa board should make their curriculum compatible to get a degree from university instead?

Quote:
... The departments that did this, they twisted the admission rules only to bar madrassah students. there is no other logical explanation. Is Bangla and English taught at Higher secondary level so much necessary for these departments? Any person who had studied the curricula should disagree. At A-level, most students study only 3 subjects, while we were subjected to 6. Did that make us more prepared? The Madrassah students didnt want to get free admission, they wanted a chance to show that they are worth.
No other logical explanation?? That means you got a dead conclusion already, hence no room for discussion. However if I borrow your logic, while we learn some subjects in HSC [for example] history, algebra, biology etc., definitely 'not so much' necessary for some of university degree / curriculum, especially in specialist field, or heck in our professional life or living life. Dose it allow us [or we should] not to learn those subjects in HSC? How will we be able to maintain educational standard with globe if we allow such move instead of solve the root cause [equivalent curriculum from madrassa board]?

Quote:
... Think about this situation, a village student who had to study in madrassah in lower levels, maybe forced, now wants to change his ways. Now that you'd deny him, he wont have a way to leave. This had been a case of secular bigots at their worst, trying to enforce their ways on everyone, purging everything that has the name of Islam attached to it.
This is rather a twisting way of see things or think [intentionally or not]. While some people prompt to see 'unfortunate' madrassa students being eliminated or not given chances, and 'This had been a case of secular bigots at their worst ... enforcing their ways on everyone', or a conspiracy against Islam 'everything that has the name attached to it' ... conveniently never recognize the the necessity of 'system', 'procedure', 'equivalent curriculum' or anything for that matter [in this case], but the 'power of numbers on the street'!.

In my opinion this outcry for madrassa students certainly has purpose other than just a 'chance', otherwise there would have smooth and easy way to settle ... the obvious one is 'equivalent curriculum from madrassa board'. And for the current bunch [madrassa student], university can take admission test including those subjects that they are suppose to know. Instead,, half of the 'Goru' from highest level says 'I wont play unless I am allowed to play I like' and other says 'we are about to play the game by book'. What a circus of 'political game' which both claim 'always doing good for nation'!

Rest of your points on [4. Applying for registration:], [6.Statue:], etc., also demand some comments from other perspective, but for lack of time ... perhaps I shall try some other time.

Last edited by PoorFan; October 27, 2008 at 06:45 PM..
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  #25  
Old October 25, 2008, 10:50 AM
samircreep samircreep is offline
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Shafin, just out of curiosity, who are the "vocal minority" atheists of Bangladesh? And I'd like to visit some of the "numerous Bangla sites who represent them"; I only know of Muktomona but if you (or any other member here) knows of others, I'd love to visit them. A Bangladeshi atheist is almost an oxymoron these days.

And when you said atheists (i loved the generalization) are "removed from reality", you meant that atheists are not representative of the common populance (in which case I'd take that as a compliment) right? Or am I missing something?
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