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  #1  
Old September 9, 2011, 12:33 AM
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Default Hypocritical?

I cant help but feel most members here are being hypocritcal....seriously, when we lost to zimbabwe, i was defending shakib, but i remember clearly many many, infact most of them, in support of shakib being relieved of captaincy, not impressed with captaincy issues, he shouldnt be a leader due to his misdemeanours....but now when he actually isnt, suddenly, everyone starts going against.....alright, i know bcb took a hasty decision, but in the end, u guys got what u wanted right...and remember, mushfique was the captain since age level cricket captaining shakib and tamim when they all were in teens, and we had the best youth team under mushfiqur, i was always in support of mushfiqur after shakib...now maybe its just a blessing in disguise, shak will go all out to prove his greatness, although i wanted him to be captain, but if shak can deliver even more than he was as a captain, then i think we wont have any problems, and mushfiqur was a captain for a reason, and in most decisons on field, mushfqir is the first person shakib consults with....can just be the different little tweaks we required for a perfect team combination...overall...tamim and shakib will have to now face lesser attention is the biggest plus i think to come out of their sacking, or every other time, their comments as capt and v captain would have been scrutinized and bc members would have talked again how they dont deserve to be captain and v cpatain, ironic indeed, or i dare say, hypocritcal??!!
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  #2  
Old September 9, 2011, 08:37 AM
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Exactly. I remember after 3rd or 4th Zim ODI we had a thread about making Mushfiqur the captain. A lot of people agreed on it but now everyone is going against it.
  #3  
Old September 9, 2011, 08:55 AM
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we go by the flow of the moment..typical Bangali behavior
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  #4  
Old September 10, 2011, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Night_wolf
we go by the flow of the moment..typical Bangali behavior
spot on!
  #5  
Old September 9, 2011, 09:03 AM
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Hujuge Bangali..Few more missed stumping and this honey moon period will be over. ( I hope that will not be the case)
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  #6  
Old September 9, 2011, 09:24 AM
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i always had issues against shakib's captaincy and always hoped for a better replacement soon. he has been axed now but i feel it's been done the wrong way. right decision implemented in a wrong way
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  #7  
Old September 9, 2011, 09:35 AM
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I have an always will be Shakib all the way....
  #8  
Old September 9, 2011, 09:43 AM
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I am always with Shakib for his captaincy/game etc [even with his arrogancy] ..... but Mushy is my ONLY OTHER captain. They are good friends and most of the performing players played under him before.
  #9  
Old September 9, 2011, 11:52 AM
mali007 mali007 is offline
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If you don't get best eleven even best captain in the world can't be successful. If Ash comes on no. 4
and make golden duck or 7 in 47 balls what will Mushfique do ? So captain should be more involved in team selection. Ganguli had that freedom and was successful. Same way Shakib was successful against NZ,WI and ZIMB. For success of the team and captain, UNDERPERFORMERS must be out of the team !!!
  #10  
Old September 9, 2011, 12:08 PM
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I always said Sakib is the best option we have , I got proof, witnesses.
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  #11  
Old September 9, 2011, 12:37 PM
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I was always for Shakib and will be until his performance on the field goes down the hill. I prefer to have a captain having attitude to fight till the end of the game irrespective of the opponents and be courageous enough to speak of his mind. That's why Saurav Ganguly, Steve Waugh and Imran Khan were successful during their time.

The CEOs of all big companies (e.g., Steve Jobs from Apple, Bill Gates from Microsoft or Larry Ellison from Oracle) are/were always arrogant but are/were focused on their plan. Sometimes they are/were ruthless but investors are happy to have them lead their respective company.

Shakib had a vision for our cricket and that's why he demanded for a long time commitment from the board. He had issues and attitudes which might NOT be liked. But, who cares? You are NOT planning to have him your relatives, right? As long as he performs well and lead the team from the front, eager to minimize his own personal issues, I don't have any problem. Well, some of those idiots in BCB are pure morons, expect more from him, I guess. Also, he might have upset some of those directors who are linked to Abahoni, consequently, he is forced to let go. The same is true for Tamim Iqbal as he irked so many Abahoni officials in the recent past.



I am happy to see responses from both Shakib and Tamim as they seem to understand the internal politics within BCB which they can’t control. I hope that they play positive and prove to the world that they are jewels to our team. If they do so, they will remain captain and vice-captain in the heart of millions of BD fans across the globe.

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  #12  
Old September 9, 2011, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger_2007
I was always for Shakib and will be until his performance on the field goes down the hill. I prefer to have a captain having attitude to fight till the end of the game irrespective of the opponents and be courageous enough to speak of his mind. That's why Saurav Ganguly, Steve Waugh and Imran Khan were successful during their time.

The CEOs of all big companies (e.g., Steve Jobs from Apple, Bill Gates from Microsoft or Larry Ellison from Oracle) are/were always arrogant but are/were focused on their plan. Sometimes they are/were ruthless but investors are happy to have them lead their respective company.

Shakib had a vision for our cricket and that's why he demanded for a long time commitment from the board. He had issues and attitudes which might NOT be liked. But, who cares? You are NOT planning to have him your relatives, right? As long as he performs well and lead the team from the front, eager to minimize his own personal issues, I don't have any problem. Well, some of those idiots in BCB are pure morons, expect more from him, I guess. Also, he might have upset some of those directors who are linked to Abahoni, consequently, he is forced to let go. The same is true for Tamim Iqbal as he irked so many Abahoni officials in the recent past.



I am happy to see responses from both Shakib and Tamim as they seem to understand the internal politics within BCB which they can’t control. I hope that they play positive and prove to the world that they are jewels to our team. If they do so, they will remain captain and vice-captain in the heart of millions of BD fans across the globe.


  #13  
Old September 10, 2011, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger_2007
I was always for Shakib and will be until his performance on the field goes down the hill. I prefer to have a captain having attitude to fight till the end of the game irrespective of the opponents and be courageous enough to speak of his mind. That's why Saurav Ganguly, Steve Waugh and Imran Khan were successful during their time.

The CEOs of all big companies (e.g., Steve Jobs from Apple, Bill Gates from Microsoft or Larry Ellison from Oracle) are/were always arrogant but are/were focused on their plan. Sometimes they are/were ruthless but investors are happy to have them lead their respective company.

Shakib had a vision for our cricket and that's why he demanded for a long time commitment from the board. He had issues and attitudes which might NOT be liked. But, who cares? You are NOT planning to have him your relatives, right? As long as he performs well and lead the team from the front, eager to minimize his own personal issues, I don't have any problem. Well, some of those idiots in BCB are pure morons, expect more from him, I guess. Also, he might have upset some of those directors who are linked to Abahoni, consequently, he is forced to let go. The same is true for Tamim Iqbal as he irked so many Abahoni officials in the recent past.



I am happy to see responses from both Shakib and Tamim as they seem to understand the internal politics within BCB which they can’t control. I hope that they play positive and prove to the world that they are jewels to our team. If they do so, they will remain captain and vice-captain in the heart of millions of BD fans across the globe.

Excellent point! they do appear a bit arrogant and ruthless at times--it's something that accompanies the insatiable hunger for success and the high standards they set for themselves and their companies. They all share strong personalities and don't hesitate to challenge those around them. They frequently get into screaming contests and fights with their employees and the ones who don't shy away from the challenge, are willing to put everything on the line, stand their ground and scream back, are the ones that get handpicked for future leadership roles. They do not look to surround themselves with Yes Men who'll try to appease them frequently by putting lipstick on a pig.
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  #14  
Old September 9, 2011, 01:21 PM
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this is funny.. not to long ago, m any among us wanted Jahirul or Dihman in place of Mushy.
now, Mushy for captain, no one knows what we really want.
  #15  
Old September 9, 2011, 08:20 PM
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I had a nickname for Shakib at Amadergaan. Captain Glorious. He brought Glory for our cricket and country.

i only support shakib being relieved off captaincy, to relieve pressure and prevent a burnout on the world beating talent name Shakib Al Hasan. I still believe he has been Bangladesh's best ever captain. tactically, statistically, smartness wise, every way.

and I know, he will be offered Captaincy in a few years, and he will be back. Bangladesh Cricket will benefit better than, because he will be damn ready for the job then.
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It is good to let Shakib off captaincy, it will relieve some pressure. He will be offered captaincy again in a few years when he will be more than ready, Bangladesh will voyage into a new horizon then
  #16  
Old September 10, 2011, 12:10 AM
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No one is here against Mushi...Everyone loves him...But the way BCB morons sacked him is politically ill and not fair. anyway I have enough said of that.
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Old September 10, 2011, 12:32 AM
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I don't feel people are being hypocritical. I just think they don't understand cricket. Add to this the flippant emotional immaturity of most BD fans and you have what you have.

The facts are there have been some awkward moments off the field under Sakib and some very large disappointments on it. His leadership style seemed to be "I am a good player, I am doing well and no blame lies with me if we lose as captain", when most captains say almost the exact opposite.

Additionally, Sakib's own game has floundered recently, most people acknowledge his poor training attitude and the fact he sets a less than professional example in this respect. Being captain isn't so much about what you say, but about what you actually DO.

BD fans tend to love Sakib because he is the 'hero' of the team. He carries the flag for BD when he plays overseas and when he is in the list of top ranked all rounders. From Sakib's viewpoint he loves the limelight and the money (and that's fine) and all he really cares about is how well he does personally. Even in some lost matches as captain he says in press conferences 'I bowled well".. or "I batted well".. yet you would never hear another country's captain say that.

All of this leaves a divide for fans who want to love the 'hero' yet see a person who perhaps isn't a very good leader of men. Some find it 'disloyal' to criticise the 'hero' but when his failings as captain are pointed out, they realise them. It means people sometimes struggle with all of that.

The problem for Sakib is he doesn't really seem to understand what a captain should do and how he should behave. He seems too close to certain members of the squad. Neither thing helps.

Posters here have some romantic kind of relationship with their 'Bollywood' style hero that is Sakib. To some he can do no wrong and will blame everyone and everything else for his failings. Sid Vision did the same.
  #18  
Old September 10, 2011, 01:15 AM
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i think it is hypocritical of those of us to expect that because he did well as a player, he would know very well what and exactly how to be a successful captain. thats just doesnt come quite easily. you need proper guidance.

so stop the shakib bashing, and join the bandwagon.
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It is good to let Shakib off captaincy, it will relieve some pressure. He will be offered captaincy again in a few years when he will be more than ready, Bangladesh will voyage into a new horizon then
  #19  
Old September 10, 2011, 03:14 PM
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Wait till Mushy drops few catches... gets out of some low score (both bound to happen).
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  #20  
Old September 11, 2011, 07:28 AM
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^^ Summary -
LBW103: Shakib did not take adequate responsibility for his team. Good captain does not equal good leader. Mushy may be good leader.No man is bigger than their team. No BCB + selector Conspiracy against Shakib.
Maddog, zman, Tigers_eye, et al: At the end of the day, we need a performing captain. None of the rest are any better and can't even lead by example. Sometimes arrogance and ruthlessness can be a good thing. There is a BCB + selector Conspiracy against Shakib.

This discussion is becoming repetitive and circular. I don't think either side will be persuaded the other is right. Anyway, if Mushy is appointed, let's hope that a year into his tenure he doesn't echo Darren Sammy (when asked about his legacy as a captain and player): "I will go down as Darren Sammy, the one who always smiles." (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine...te/522896.html) In Mushy's case, it could be Mushfiqur Rahim, the one who is exceptionally short.
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Old September 11, 2011, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
^^ Summary -
LBW103: Shakib did not take adequate responsibility for his team. Good captain does not equal good leader. Mushy may be good leader.No man is bigger than their team. No BCB + selector Conspiracy against Shakib.
Maddog, zman, Tigers_eye, et al: At the end of the day, we need a performing captain. None of the rest are any better and can't even lead by example. Sometimes arrogance and ruthlessness can be a good thing. There is a BCB + selector Conspiracy against Shakib.

This discussion is becoming repetitive and circular. I don't think either side will be persuaded the other is right. Anyway, if Mushy is appointed, let's hope that a year into his tenure he doesn't echo Darren Sammy (when asked about his legacy as a captain and player): "I will go down as Darren Sammy, the one who always smiles." (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine...te/522896.html) In Mushy's case, it could be Mushfiqur Rahim, the one who is exceptionally short.
thanks for saving me the trouble of putting my thoughts in writing
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  #22  
Old September 11, 2011, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
^^ Summary -
LBW103: Shakib did not take adequate responsibility for his team. Good captain does not equal good leader. Mushy may be good leader.No man is bigger than their team. No BCB + selector Conspiracy against Shakib.
Maddog, zman, Tigers_eye, et al: At the end of the day, we need a performing captain. None of the rest are any better and can't even lead by example. Sometimes arrogance and ruthlessness can be a good thing. There is a BCB + selector Conspiracy against Shakib.

This discussion is becoming repetitive and circular. I don't think either side will be persuaded the other is right. Anyway, if Mushy is appointed, let's hope that a year into his tenure he doesn't echo Darren Sammy (when asked about his legacy as a captain and player): "I will go down as Darren Sammy, the one who always smiles." (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine...te/522896.html) In Mushy's case, it could be Mushfiqur Rahim, the one who is exceptionally short.
Navo.. let me directly quote from a book written about captaincy. I will step out of this and you guys can make your own minds up:

"Ultimately, team performance is the measure of a good cricket captain. However, a good cricket captain is not merely a captain of a good team. Captains must have inherent characteristics and qualities that allow them to get the most out of their teams.

Although the Australians from 2003-2009 were a dominant team, Ricky Ponting is not considered a good captain in some quarters. Cricket pundits regard Stephen Fleming as a good captain, despite the ordinary New Zealand team that he led. Good cricket captains require more than 'good' results; they must have some or all of five basic attributes.

i) Astute tactician

Cricket is a thinking game and the cricket captain must guide his team on the field. Field placing and strategies to get batsmen out or win/save a game are the purview of the captain. Good captains have a grasp on tactics and apply them in the right situation. They know when to take a gamble and when defence is the best form of attack. A good captain is usually positive and pragmatic with his tactics.

ii) Motivator and Influencer

A good cricket captain can motivate players on and off the cricket field. Not all captains are admired but a good one should be respected. Players should be able to get a lift from their captain- a lift that enables them to elevate their on-field performance. By dint of this, good captains should be self-motivators as well.

iii) Vision

Ideally, a captain should have a vision about what he wants the cricket team to become. Is the emphasis on rebuilding a team or solidifying a strong team? A good captain goes beyond a day-to-day role by adopting the role of leader and visionary. The captain- in conjunction with team management- should have a clear view of the overall direction of the cricket team.

iv) Resilience

When the chips are down, a good captain needs to believe. Otherwise, he would be hard-pressed to get his teammates believing that they could overcome on-field adversity. Chris Gayle of the West Indies was a perfect example of a lack of resilience. When the chips are down, Gayle waits for something to happen and may appear to be resigned to fate. Steve Waugh, on the other hand, had a steely reserve that reflected in his batting. Australia was able to convert weak positions into strong ones because Waugh believed.

iv) Communication and conflict resolution skills

A good captain must be able to dialogue with players both on and off the field. In any teams, problems may arise from time to time. Even if the captain is the cause of the problem, he or she should be able assist with resolving any dispute or grievance amicably.

In addition to those basic attributes, a good cricket captain should also be:

a) A sporting statesman

b) Skilled in interacting with the media

c) A student of the game with a grasp of cricket history

d) An enforcer of the spirit of cricket

It may seem useless to have all these fine attributes if your team never wins. What these attributes do is help a captain to get the most out of his team. A captain- like a good manager- has to work through others. Whether he is a batsman, bowler or all-rounder, a captain cannot dismiss all the batsmen or score all the runs. Being a good cricket captain just elevates team performance."
  #23  
Old September 11, 2011, 10:03 PM
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lol looks like Mr LBW running for our next BCB president
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  #24  
Old September 12, 2011, 12:22 AM
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I don't mind if Mushfiq becomes the captain of the Bangladesh cricket team. He is motivating and full of life on the field. And Ian Pont said he has got the most professional attitude within the team (what Ian described as Englishmen-like professionalism).
Having said that, i have got serious issues with the way Shakib and Tamim had been removed and got their characters assasinated over time. kaler Kontho, a handful of jealous ex-players and some corrupt BCB directors drummed up the attitude issue and bad behaviour propaganda without any specific evidence and some hypocritical fans added fuel to it. It's matter of great regret and shame that a grave injustice has been done to Shakib who is without any doubt the best cricketer in our history so far.
Amader problem holo, amra je bhalo tar dosh khujte microscope niye boshe thaki. Zim series e BD'r best performer by miles er daai nite hoilo failure er. Tamim was decent too. Baki 9 ta player er kisu hoilo na. Selector der kisu hoilo na, directors der kisu hoilo na.Bhabkhana emon je, eder theke to keu kisu expect kore na, era fail korleo ki. kintu Shakib keno ball e ball wicket nite pare na. Tamim keno proti match e century kore na. Fan der ei dhoroner attitude jodi hypocritical na hoi, taile hypocrite er difinition notun kore jante hobe.
Match thread e dekhtam kisu fan ase, jara Shakib beshi bowling korle bolto, he must be jealous of MUllah/Razzak. Kom bowling korle bolto arey beta IPL/County khele tired hoye gese, national team ki or ancestral property naki j ekhane eshe rest nibe. R era abar nijeder Shakib hater hishebe shikar o kore na. Ei dhoroner attitude jodi hypocritical na hoi, taile hypocritical konta?
  #25  
Old September 12, 2011, 01:37 AM
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MadDog & LBW - you have both crossed the line multiples times. Expect some PMs from the Mods.

I am closing this thread so that heads may cool down.

- Moderator
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