Middle order conundrum

Tiger444 · #1 June 8, 2012, 12:40 PM

One of the headaches coach Pybus will have is what order we should have our middle order. It seems pretty cloudy still even though we have the pieces. Mushy so far has been disappointing at #4, Riyad has been disappointing as well at #7. So do we move those guys up? If we do then that means Nasir will have to bat at #7 but isn't that too low for a guy who has looked like a genuine match winner? It'll be interesting to see what Pybus does with our middle order.

oronnya · #2 June 8, 2012, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiger444
One of the headaches coach Pybus will have is what order we should have our middle order. It seems pretty cloudy still even though we have the pieces. Mushy so far has been disappointing at #4, Riyad has been disappointing as well at #7. So do we move those guys up? If we do then that means Nasir will have to bat at #7 but isn't that too low for a guy who has looked like a genuine match winner? It'll be interesting to see what Pybus does with our middle order.

The problem will be solved if either Mushy or Riyad can turn into a #3 batsman and if Shakib pushes himself up to #4.. Then you can bring in a genuine power hitter all rounder at #7.. So the best middle order combo

3. Mushy/Riyad
4. Shakib
5. Mushy/Riyad
6. Nasir

Tiger444 · #3 June 8, 2012, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oronnya
The problem will be solved if either Mushy or Riyad can turn into a #3 batsman and if Shakib pushes himself up to #4.. Then you can bring in a genuine power hitter all rounder at #7.. So the best middle order combo

3. Mushy/Riyad
4. Shakib
5. Mushy/Riyad
6. Nasir

The problem is I don't see any of these guys being #3 batsmen. They perform much better against the old ball compared to the new ball. The highest any of these guys should bat is #4. We need genuine top order batsmen like Anamul/Jahurul to bat at #3.

oronnya · #4 June 8, 2012, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiger444
The problem is I don't see any of these guys being #3 batsmen. They perform much better against the old ball compared to the new ball. The highest any of these guys should bat is #4. We need genuine top order batsmen like Anamul/Jahurul to bat at #3.

Exactly !!! In that case you will have take out Riyad from the team as he is not a #7 batsman and we don't want to waste Mushy and Nasir to waste at #7!! So the problem remains...#7 is the position I still don't see anyone to be fit there...You really need a good off spinner in the team as well.. So It's not easy to substitute Riyad at the moment..

Tiger444 · #5 June 8, 2012, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oronnya
Exactly !!! In that case you will have take out Riyad from the team as he is not a #7 batsman and we don't want to waste Mushy and Nasir to waste at #7!! So the problem remains...#7 is the position I still don't see anyone to be fit there...You really need a good off spinner in the team as well.. So It's not easy to substitute Riyad at the moment..

On top of that, the team is performing quite well with Mushy as captain and Riyad as vice captain. So I don't see Riyad getting replaced anytime soon. Although he hasn't been anything special, it's difficult to replace him since he's been playing pretty well.

Gowza · #6 June 8, 2012, 05:25 PM

if you want an off spinner at #7 that isn't riyad then maybe mahmudul hasan but would he be any better than riyad in that spot? don't think his strike rate is high enough either, maybe look at sabbir or nur.

Tiger444 · #7 June 8, 2012, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gowza
if you want an off spinner at #7 that isn't riyad then maybe mahmudul hasan but would he be any better than riyad in that spot? don't think his strike rate is high enough either, maybe look at sabbir or nur.

Shuvagata should be the next choice after Riyad. His stats in the DPL with the ball is pretty impressive.

Gowza · #8 June 8, 2012, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiger444
Shuvagata should be the next choice after Riyad. His stats in the DPL with the ball is pretty impressive.

I'm all for shuvagata being in the team even if it is at the #7 spot, as you say he's been doing pretty decent with the ball

oronnya · #9 June 8, 2012, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gowza
if you want an off spinner at #7 that isn't riyad then maybe mahmudul hasan but would he be any better than riyad in that spot? don't think his strike rate is high enough either, maybe look at sabbir or nur.

Yeah we have few options to try out. As I actually haven't seen them play it's hard to tell who would be the best.. The domestic stats didn't proved to be the best criteria to choose players in the past as many of them failed in international matches..I would prefer not to bring in all the new guys together.. I don't think we can take a risk of having so many new guys at the same time.. Let Anamul get in first and prove his worth.. once #3 is solved we can bring in the others.. I just want a perfect balance of freshness and experience in the team... Riyad has lots of experience which might come in handy during this transition process or who knows with so much competition Riyad might perform better..

Gowza · #10 June 8, 2012, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oronnya
Yeah we have few options to try out. As I actually haven't seen them play it's hard to tell who would be the best.. The domestic stats didn't proved to be the best criteria to choose players in the past as many of them failed in international matches..I would prefer not to bring in all the new guys together.. I don't think we can take a risk of having so many new guys at the same time.. Let Anamul get in first and prove his worth.. once #3 is solved we can bring in the others.. I just want a perfect balance of freshness and experience in the team... Riyad has lots of experience which might come in handy during this transition process or who knows with so much competition Riyad might perform better..

i agree we don't want to over balance the team with too much inexperience and not enough experience, but the #7 spot really isn't a pressure spot, basically in most cases the #7 has a license to belt the ball around and score some quick runs at the end of the innings and chip in a handful of overs with the ball (not the full 10) so the #7 spot is one of the best to put someone new or inexperienced as the pressure isn't as high as other places. shuvagata already has a handful of matches under his belt so i wouldn't worry bringing him in if it's for the #7 spot, nur, sabbir and mahmudul are bigger gambles imo but i'd say sabbir is less of a gamble batting wise than the others, mahmudul might be less of a gamble bowling wise and nur is kind of inbetween since he's a leggy who tend to develop later and more often than not leggy's turnout to be duds and he's more of a bowler who can bat a bit whereas sabbir and mahmdul are more capable batsman (mahmudul being the more genuine allrounder i believe though because sabbir is more a batsman who bowls a bit whereas mahmudul is more a frontline bowler and middle order bat). nur and sabbir are probably better suited to #7 batting wise than mahmudul since they strike at a higher rate more consistently but bowling wise mahmudul might be the best option.

for the moment we can count naeem and shuvo out imo. naeem would be a decent option as he's a decent bowler but his strike rate cuts him out of the options straight away for now until he can get it up.

BengaliPagol · #11 June 8, 2012, 08:35 PM

We should try Shuvagata Hom at no. 7. He can bowl. He can learn the art of slog.

Gowza · #12 June 8, 2012, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
We should try Shuvagata Hom at no. 7. He can bowl. He can learn the art of slog.

no please not slogging for shuvagata, he's a genuine batting prospect, i want him to use proper cricket shots. if nur was to be the #7 then i don't mind slogging as long as it's successful sinces he's primarily a bowler, but shuvagata being a batsman i don't want him to slog just use good cricket shots, i'd want the same with sabbir and mahmudul to since they're future middle order batting prospects.

but yes if riyad can't handle #7 then shuvagata please.

Gowza · #13 June 8, 2012, 06:00 PM

Otherwise get nasir to bowl more....

TigerEz · #14 June 8, 2012, 06:15 PM

nasir bowling more means more runs for teh opposition

BengaliPagol · #15 June 8, 2012, 07:17 PM

Ive said this before and ill say it again. Nasir to me isnt an allrounder. He is a genuine batsmen and he should stay that way. We need him to concentrate on his batting so he can really be a force in the middle order. We need the best of his batting. His bowling is nothing special really.

oronnya · #16 June 8, 2012, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
Ive said this before and ill say it again. Nasir to me isnt an allrounder. He is a genuine batsmen and he should stay that way. We need him to concentrate on his batting so he can really be a force in the middle order. We need the best of his batting. His bowling is nothing special really.

Yup !! That's what I think of Nasir !! He isn't our solution for off spinner all rounder..

Tiger444 · #17 June 8, 2012, 09:24 PM

For the time being though, Shuvagata and Mominul have to continue to wait before they get a chance in the middle order but its great to see we finally have some good bench strength.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Blackberry)

oronnya · #18 June 8, 2012, 09:37 PM

Very good discussion but I think we are going off topic here... Can the Mods move this discussion to another thread...

**Zunaid** · #19 June 14, 2012, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oronnya
Very good discussion but I think we are going off topic here... Can the Mods move this discussion to another thread...

Moved to this thread.

In the future, would you mind using the "report feature"? That ensures moderators get to see it. Often, posts like yours within a thread gets buried quickly in a stream of responses and might not make it to a moderators attention.

oronnya · #20 June 15, 2012, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zunaid
Moved to this thread.

In the future, would you mind using the "report feature"? That ensures moderators get to see it. Often, posts like yours within a thread gets buried quickly in a stream of responses and might not make it to a moderators attention.

Thank you !!

I never knew of that option !! Where is the feature actually?

fiasnahk · #21 June 8, 2012, 09:47 PM

Give mahmudullah a few more series i think. Is he really that bad? We didnt lose the asia cup finals because of him, all the other batsmen played very poorly apart from mash. And in tests id like him to stay at No.7. We've only just started winning games, lets not try and change the whole team by bringing in youngsters who will need 20-30 games to perform. Not everyone is a Nasir. With all the hype about anamul, i wouldnt be surprised if it took him 10 games to get accustomed. Bring in one guy at a time, anamul deserves his chance first.

oronnya · #22 June 8, 2012, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiasnahk
Give mahmudullah a few more series i think. Is he really that bad? We didnt lose the asia cup finals because of him, all the other batsmen played very poorly apart from mash. And in tests id like him to stay at No.7. We've only just started winning games, lets not try and change the whole team by bringing in youngsters who will need 20-30 games to perform. Not everyone is a Nasir. With all the hype about anamul, i wouldnt be surprised if it took him 10 games to get accustomed. Bring in one guy at a time, anamul deserves his chance first.

Yup that's exactly the point I was making earlier !!!

Gowza · #23 June 8, 2012, 10:10 PM

whether you believe riyad was the reason for the loss of the asia cup or not his playing style isn't suited to #7. for him to keep that spot he's going to need to develop the boundary hitting part of his game. batsman are supposed to score much more quickly in the last 10 overs and especially the last 5 overs and riyad has shown time and time again that he can't accelerate when needed, i'm not saying he doesn't have the ability but he hasn't been able to do it whether it's a choice he's made or his game isn't developed enough doesn't really matter it's something he's going to have to fix either way. but for now his game doesn't suit #7.

i'd give him a few more games not a few more series, he's a very experienced ODI player now, the coach and selectors need to tell him this is your role accelerate at the end of the match and if he isn't able to manage it then someone else will be tried.

Gowza · #24 June 8, 2012, 10:23 PM

more on topic, we could try mushy as #3 in the shorter formats, if he's successful we could look at him for the #3 spot in tests but then he'd definitely have to give up the gloves in the longer format which would mean we'll need to allow a spot for a keeper in the test team unless anmul bats at #7 and keeps but i think he's too good not to have at the top of the order. although anamul could turnout to be the long term #3.

TimAus · #25 June 15, 2012, 05:53 AM

I don't think Mahmudullah's place should be under threat. He is definitely one of the best 11 cricketers in Bangladesh and should be in the side. When you start bringing in players to do a role like "slog at number 7" you're going down the wrong path. If you have an Andrew Symonds or Lance Klusener then fine, they are perfect for that spot, but if you don't then play to your strengths. Find another way to win that doesn't involve slogging 100 from the last 8 overs because an inferior slogger will just end up getting out for no runs and suddenly you've got a non-contributor keeping a good player out of the side.

Personally I'd have Shakib, Nasir, Mahmudullah and Rahim as 4, 5, 6, 7 in that order.