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  #1  
Old October 15, 2012, 08:35 AM
jeesh jeesh is offline
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Default Spin Pipeline

The objective of the thread is same as that of the pace pipeline thread. To discuss the progress of spinners apart from Shakib, Razzak and Elias Sunny Sunny in Under 19, club cricket, divisional cricket, BPL, A Team etc.

Fortunately Bangladesh is blessed with a good spin pipeline. It can be also unfortunate because sometimes talented spinners are overlooked despite their strong showings in domestic cricket. Currently many countries are finding it hard to unearth quality spinners. Australia for instance had to resort to a 42 year Hogg because the likes of Michael Beer, Doherty are simply not good enough. Its debatable but i bet countries like Australia, South Africa, England, Zimbabwe wouldnt mind having some of our emerging or fringe spinners. Bangladesh in comparison can produce SLA's effortlessly.

But are these spinners good enough? Many would argue they are not, and they would struggle against quality batsmen, and in less spin oriented pitches. This could be true. But if you remember the performance of our spinners in BPL, you will probably agree the talent and potential is there. The likes of Elias Sunny, Arafat Sunny, Saqlain Sajib performed admirably against some of the best T20 batsmen in the world. The next BPL will give these spinners another chance to prove themselves.

BCB also made a smart move by appointing Saqlain Mushtaq. But this appointment will not bear any fruit until Saqlain is allowed to work with 10-12 of our emerging A Team, Under 19 spinners for 2-3 months.

It is also important BCB tries to nurture spinners other than SLA's to improve variety in our attack. Unfortunately there arent many OS or LS candidates.
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  #2  
Old October 15, 2012, 08:49 AM
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Well there is no doubt that our SLA's are quality. Shakib and Razzak are top 10 bowlers in both T20I's and ODI's. Then you have Elias who was the highest wicket taker in the BPL and has done really well so far in the national team. Then our backups, Enamul, Saqlain, and Arafat are all very good as well.

The problem still lies in the variety in our spin attack. We only have Sohag Gazi as a specialist offie and Nur Hossain as a specialist leggie. We need a lot more variety in our spin department because it's already proven that we can produce good spinners. So why not have more variety so we could be more potent in our attack? Because let's be realistic, we'll never really have a superior pace attack. So we should focus on having variety in our spin.
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  #3  
Old October 15, 2012, 08:49 AM
jeesh jeesh is offline
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Top 5 spinners in last 5 NCL

2011/12

Enamul Jnr- 59
Arafat Sunny- 50
Saqlain Sajib- 50
Abdur Razzak- 38
Murad Khan- 35

Best Non SLA. Farhad Hossain, OS- 29

2010/2011

Sohag Gazi- 41
Mosharraf Hossain- 34
Shaker Ahmed- 30
Saqlain Sajib- 29
Elias Sunny- 24

2009/10

Saqlain Sajib- 54
Elias Sunny- 42
Suhrawadi Shuvo- 24
Murad Khan- 17
Faisal Hossain- 16

Best Non SLA. Sohag Gazi, OS- 15

2008/2009

Suhrawadi Shuvo- 59
Nabil Samad- 41
Arafat Sunny- 40
Elias Sunny- 37
Farhad Hossain- 19

2007/08

Mosharraf Hossain- 44
Murad Khan- 39
Enamul Haque jnr- 32
Saqlain Sajib- 31
Saju Datta- 30

Best non SLA. Yasin Arafat, OS- 29
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  #4  
Old October 15, 2012, 09:02 AM
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Spin pipeline = SLAs, way too many.

Even in the NT, we need more venom: attack, don't just contain. Guys like Shakib and Elias have shown they are capable. Enam has developed and is probably able to strike in all versions. Could probably look at Gazi for variation, but please no more SLAs. We have enough - even Razzak mamu gets the job done in the shorter versions.
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  #5  
Old October 15, 2012, 09:10 AM
jeesh jeesh is offline
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NT Vs Pipeline Spinners

Shakib has 192 FC wickets at an average of 29. Razzak has 197 FC wickets at an average of 30. Elias Sunny has 224 FC wickets at an average of 25.

Arafat Sunny has 209 FC wickets at an average of 22. Saqlain Sajib has 170 wickets at an average of 20. Enamul Jnr is one of the highest wicket takers in FC cricket with 306 victims at an average of 28. Veteran spinner Mosharraf Hossain has 203 FC wickets at an average of 25. Shuvo has 186 FC wickets at an average of 20. Nabil Samad has 219 FC victims at an average of 26.

OS candidates

Sohag Gazi has 76 wickets at an average of 22. All rounder Farhad Hossain is a more potent spinner than frontline all rounders like Riyad, Naeem, Nasir, Kapali. He has 112 FC wicket at an average of 22 (Off topic, Farhad Hossain is also a useful batsman with a healthy average of 35 with the highest score of 216). Yasin Arafat is the only other consistent off spinner with 161 wickets and an average of 28. Highly unlikely he will break into national team though

LS candidates

Kapali is the only leg spinner with over 100 first class wickets. We all know Noor Hossain has talent, but he is very raw. So far he has only 30 wickets in the 10 FC matches he has played at an average of 37.

Clearly the SLA's dominate. Saqlain Sajib and Enamul are the best two pipeline spinners for the longer version, while Arafat Sunny is a better option for the shorter versions. Likes of Shuvo, Nabil Samad have to prove more. The best non SLA option we have now is Sohag Gazi. Hope he has a terrific NCL.
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  #6  
Old October 15, 2012, 09:19 AM
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Nice work Jeesh bhai. I am tired of SLAs as well. Slightly off topic, what is the cause of our endless supply of SLAs? Is it because of early success of Moni and Rafiq?

On topic, I think Sohag Gazi, Yasin Arafat, Noor Hossain should be groomed more. Get more offies/leggies and send them to a camp with Saqlain for a month. There are talents out there and we just need to find them. We might have few Dananjayas somewhere. This guy was bowling in nets few months ago. Fast forward and he bowled in WC T20 final.
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  #7  
Old October 15, 2012, 09:53 AM
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need to develop guys like sohag gazi, had no idea farhad hossain had such a good bowling record i mean 112 FC scalps at an average of 21, econ under 3 and a ridiculous strike rate of 45!
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  #8  
Old October 15, 2012, 09:59 AM
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Thanks for the feedback. My 2 theories (Sorry for repeating for those who have read it before)

1) Inspiration: Rafique was an iconic player, now Shakib is the poster boy and icon-not just in Bangladesh, respected around the world. Razzak has had terrific success in the shorter formats. Success breeds success. Imo inspiration is 20% of the reason we produce so many SLA's

2) Nature of wickets and type of batsmen: Our wickets are known for low bounce, where the ball doesnt come on to the bat. Also most of our batsmen are right handed, and their dominant hand is right. Which means their bottom hand is stronger. Naturally these guys love to play on the leg side, across the line. Now combine the two factors. Result: plenty of wickets via LBW's, getting cleaned up etc. You are more likely to succeed as an SLA in BD wickets, than an off spinner or a leg spinner. You dont need much variation, just the ability to bowl straight, over the wicket with an angle. The odd ball should turn, while one should throw in a few arm balls. Wickets, wickets, wickets.

Would love to see a Bangladeshi Akila Dananajaya. What a story that is. But i doubt that will happen, because our selectors are averse to risk taking. They will play Razzak match after match even if he flops day and night, saying he has experience. Also our age group coaches are very traditional minded-they go by the book. I highly doubt they will encourage anything unorthodox, which is why you wont see a Mendis or a Narine coming out of Bangladesh.
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  #9  
Old October 15, 2012, 10:44 AM
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Great point there Jeesh and it's very true. Rafique obviously had an influence but also it's mainly the nature of wickets that we play on. Diversity of pitches are key here. We can't just have pitches that help the SLA's. We need pitches that help ALL spinners, pacers, and batsmen. The more diversity we have in our pitches, the more diversity we'll have in our bowling attack. A small idea here for the selectors that can help in a big way is to have Gazi in the next team. If he can get that chance ahead of the likes of Saqlain and Arafat, it might make a difference. Gazi will also have to make a difference. If he can become a star, who knows, younger kids might want to become an offspinner rather than an SLA. Nur should be in consideration in a few years as well. If these 2 become class players then it could really help with this problem.
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  #10  
Old October 16, 2012, 05:18 AM
jeesh jeesh is offline
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Enamul's 59 wickets last season marks his comeback after a few disappointing years. He bowled very well against West Indies High Performance as well. This is good news for Bangladeshi cricket. Technical ability wise, Enamul is the best spinner in the country. The difference between him and Shakib is probably mental attributes. Shakib has the mind of a champion, he is brave, positive and determined. Skill wise Enamul is better-can turn the ball a great deal, has a good arm ball, flights the ball well, and can bamboozle batsmen with point of delivery. Enamul is also one of those bowlers who take apart a batting lineup. He has over 300 FC wickets, at an average of 28 with 21 five wicket/innings haul and 4 ten wickets/match haul.

Hopefully, Enamul will be part of Bangladesh's test squad in the West Indies series. It will be interesting to see how he also does in NCL.
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Old October 16, 2012, 06:05 AM
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Fantastic work Jeesh - great nanlysis and observations.


I think we should have a new set of selectors who has vision and eyes to see it.

Enamul Jr. is must for the Tests. And don't want to see Razzak in the Test squad.
Sunny and Enamul could do wonders against WI.
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  #12  
Old October 16, 2012, 10:50 AM
jeesh jeesh is offline
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Thanks Kalpurush.

Continuing the discussion on spinners, the next one is one of the more unfortunate cases. Rather he dug up his own grave. Now the big question is can he do anything to drag himself out of the grave. I am talking abt Mosharraf Hossain-who at the peak of his career decided to ditch the national team to play in ICL.

Nevertheless he has been one of the most consistent spinners in domestic cricket over the years. Was tipped to take over the role of Rafique by the great man himself. See links below. In ways he is very similar to Rafique. Relies heavily on accuracy and flight. Unlike Razzak he will rarely give you a loose ball. This is why he has a good economy rate in T20, ODI's and FC. Picks up wickets too, has 203 FC wickets at an average of 25 with best of 9/105 which is probably the best bowling performance by a Bangladeshi in FC cricket.

http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesig....php?nid=18297
http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...ad.php?t=25066

Can he make it into the BD team, will he get a second chance? At the age of 30, i highly doubt it. But if we ever need a mature experienced spinner Mosharraf should be the one. A good BPL and FC season can change his fortunes. One must keep in mind Mohammad Rafique may have been in the team for a long time, but in terms of quality bowling he peaked very late.
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Old October 16, 2012, 11:32 AM
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Mosharraf doesn't have anything more to offer than our front line SLAs. He's great at containing and will make batsmen from outside the subcontinent struggle regularly on our dust bowls in the shorter formats, but he might just have chosen the wrong trade at the wrong time in the wrong place. He was in contention before the ICL, though, so that might just have killed his chances with the NT.

I think Rafique had named him as his replacement when he had just retired, but circumstances haven't been in his favor. He is still a very good bowler.
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Old October 16, 2012, 12:21 PM
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Agree. Chances are he wont make back into the national fold even with good performances in domestic cricket. Enamul, Saqlain, and Arafat are ahead as far as SLA's are concerned.
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Old October 16, 2012, 01:12 PM
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Yes, Mosharraf Rubel's days are over. He was right up there before Sunny, Shuvo, Saqlain became prominent.

How about we get Rafique to work as spin coach/mentor at development level? His job will be to identify talent and develop them. The succesful ones will be sent to Saqlain Mushtaq and that batch will train under him for at least one year. The succesful ones from there will go to McInnes and the best ones from there will reach the National team.
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Old October 17, 2012, 09:47 AM
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That would be very useful. Having Rafique mentor young spinners-he used to do that even while playing, i bet Shakib and Razzak will bear testimony to that. I read BCB wants to have batting, pace bowling, spin bowling and fielding coaches at academy working with RM. Good opportunity to involve guys like Rafique working under RM.

Btw one area where i hope our SLA's work on is their variation. Most of our SLA's are content just bowling the orthodox delivery. They will probably vary the flight, length, line. Their stock delivery will be the arm ball. This works ok in ODI's, test match cricket. But to do well in T20's and to be more effective in ODI's they need to have a bit more. Rangana Herath (Who imo is one of the best SLA's in the world atm) for example is probably the only SLA who can bowl the doosra (One that spins towards the right hander) at will. Herath also has an effective carrom ball. He combines these deliveries with his orthodox spin, variation in flight, arm ball. Very effective and hard to pick.
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Old October 17, 2012, 05:26 PM
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I don't understand why Sohag Gazi didn't play any matches against the Windies High Performance team recently. I thought a good performance might propel him into the squad against Windies NT. He did well against the Saffers academy team in their own backyard. We need variety in our spin attack, it might work against Zimbabwe having 3 slas, but against the Watsons, Gayles and McCullums it becomes one dimensional. I see him as one for the future and I hope he's spent time with Saqlain Mushtaq working on variations.
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Old October 18, 2012, 12:01 AM
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Thats because our selectors dont think Tiger Manc. Too conservative. Dont be surprised to see Razzak in the test XI.
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Old October 18, 2012, 12:56 AM
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Both Nazimuddin and DaRok are decent spinners.
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Old October 20, 2012, 10:46 AM
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Good to see Saqlain Sajib making noise from day 1. A lot of the media and us the fans attention is on the Sunny's, Enamul, Shakib etc. But quietly Sajib has gotten 176 FC wickets from 36 matches. Could be one of our few bowlers who could average below 20 in FC with the ball.

Wish him a speedy recovery.
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Old October 22, 2012, 10:40 PM
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Sohag Gazi's 7 for 79. We might have an OS finally. Got a century too!
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Old October 23, 2012, 11:14 AM
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Unfortunately Sohan Gazi and Enamul Jnr may have to wait. Razzak match winning haul of 6/72 might be enough to convince selectors to consider him for the WI tests. Talk abt a timely performance. Personally i am not a fan of Razzak in longer format. But this performance will make it harder for selectors to say no
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Old October 23, 2012, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeesh
Unfortunately Sohan Gazi and Enamul Jnr may have to wait. Razzak match winning haul of 6/72 might be enough to convince selectors to consider him for the WI tests. Talk abt a timely performance. Personally i am not a fan of Razzak in longer format. But this performance will make it harder for selectors to say no
Both Shohag Gazi and Enamul both should be in the team, specially when Saklain is there as the coach...this series at home should be loaded with spinners.

Shohag brings in some batting also...
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Old October 23, 2012, 11:37 AM
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^hopefully they realize that Razzak's bowling is not suited for the longer format. They did drop him last year for the WI and Pak tour. We'll see what happens but I really hope they don't pick Razzak and rather pick Enamul Jr. And Sohag

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  #25  
Old October 23, 2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger444
^hopefully they realize that Razzak's bowling is not suited for the longer format. They did drop him last year for the WI and Pak tour. We'll see what happens but I really hope they don't pick Razzak and rather pick Enamul Jr. And Sohag

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