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  #1  
Old November 17, 2012, 11:29 AM
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Default Bangladesh's caution helped us - Sammy

Quote:
Bangladesh v West Indies, 1st Test, Mirpur, 5th day

Bangladesh's caution helped us - Sammy
Mohammad Isam in Mirpur
November 17, 2012


Bangladesh's watchful approach at the start of their chase of 245 gave West Indies the upper hand as the Mirpur Test moved towards a tight finish, according to Darren Sammy. He praised his team's attitude of not taking Bangladesh lightly, a factor he said had contributed to the 77-run win, especially after West Indies had conceded a 29-run lead in the first innings.

"Normally Tamim [Iqbal] goes after the new ball," Sammy said. "They always start off with a flier. But to see them coming out and leaving balls, I liked it. Had they got off to a flier, we would have had to pull back the game. I think it suited our plans the way they kept being tentative.

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© ESPN EMEA Ltd.
This is what happens when you get yourselves into a shell and instruct your premier batsmen to curve his natural instincts and play so defensively. We've seen number of times that Tamim always has difficulty when he slows things down and you know that he'll play a rash shot any moment. Why not let him be himself and play the ball on its merit as Utpal Shuvro described. Even a quickfire 50 from Tamim could have turned things around in this situation!
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  #2  
Old November 17, 2012, 12:28 PM
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I still don't think Tamim was told to not play his natural game but probably he was asked to play a bigger innings & make sure he sets the plateforme.
Even if he was asked for a cautious approach nothing wrong with it.
yes Tamim phailed but that doesn't mean that the other five players Naeem,Sakib,Mushy,Ryad ,Nasir who all scored runs will phail?
To chase a 245 u don't need Tamim , all you need is a couple of 50 + partnership and some sensible batting from the rest.
It's just a day when everybody failed in their own way.
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  #3  
Old November 17, 2012, 12:38 PM
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Tamim for some reason ALWAYS plays counter to the needed approach regardless of the match situation and format.

Wasn't happy with Mushy bowling Rubel alongside Gazi in the morning either.
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  #4  
Old November 17, 2012, 01:57 PM
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Aarey gaa ta jole gese amar taader batting dekhe. Money hoy jeno pitch betha pabe eto aste block kore khele. How long can you survive? Should've gone into T20 mode.
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  #5  
Old November 17, 2012, 04:29 PM
Dilscoop Dilscoop is offline
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Everyone here already knew that. Except the 3 Subcontinental idiots on the booth. The WI one knew it too. We all knew it. We went into a shell and choked. Just because the target is low compared to the over amount doesn't mean you change your plan. A quick 50 runs in first 10 overs would've really pushed them back into conservative gameplay. Then they could've just poked it around.

They should've played NORMAL cricket. Not T20, not ODI, just playing NORMAL cricket.
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  #6  
Old November 17, 2012, 05:40 PM
KaaL-PurusH KaaL-PurusH is offline
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If this was the reason then we certainly don't how to play the game. If he cant learn how to control the pace of his innings after been into international arena for 5 yrs then we are looking at wrong guy. If he sees himself in similar role of Gayle, Shehwag, Dilshan then he should realise that team is not in a position to afford that. He needs to learn to play with bit more responsibility.
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  #7  
Old November 17, 2012, 05:51 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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i don't think it's fair to jump on tamim and say he needs to learn this he needs to learn that etc. it's true batsmen should be able to play to the situation but what counts is performance, tamim is the best performing batsman in test matches that BD has, he's averaging 38, he's got a great overall FC average in the mid 40s as well so whatever he has been doing has been working pretty well. there are always things to work on and yes tamim playing a more significant innings would probably have dramatically improved BD's chances but i think as some said earlier in the thread that we shouldn't tell tamim to curb his natural instincts.

it's different if the players natural instinct means they never score runs, but in tamim's case it works for him and he scores quite a lot. in any case, it's always about finding that balance that works for you and what tamim did in the 1st innings works for him a lot more than what he did in the 2nd innings.
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  #8  
Old November 17, 2012, 11:03 PM
KaaL-PurusH KaaL-PurusH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
i don't think it's fair to jump on tamim and say he needs to learn this he needs to learn that etc. it's true batsmen should be able to play to the situation but what counts is performance, tamim is the best performing batsman in test matches that BD has, he's averaging 38, he's got a great overall FC average in the mid 40s as well so whatever he has been doing has been working pretty well. there are always things to work on and yes tamim playing a more significant innings would probably have dramatically improved BD's chances but i think as some said earlier in the thread that we shouldn't tell tamim to curb his natural instincts.

it's different if the players natural instinct means they never score runs, but in tamim's case it works for him and he scores quite a lot. in any case, it's always about finding that balance that works for you and what tamim did in the 1st innings works for him a lot more than what he did in the 2nd innings.
he can't stop developing his game. It is his drawback that once he get going he cant hold back his attacking instinct and throws his bat on anything.
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  #9  
Old November 17, 2012, 06:31 PM
mali007 mali007 is offline
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The management told the batsmen to play with caution until tea and then go for big hits . If Tamim started like 1st innings , Tino would not find any line & length .
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  #10  
Old November 17, 2012, 11:19 PM
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It's not about batting "solow" or batting "phasht". It is about batting according to the merit of each delivery by playing high percentage shots ranging from a forward defensive to a hook. One must have the right temperament and sustained focus to do that.

Some deliveries require aggression whilst others caution. Blocking a delivery that can be safely put away for a runs is just as idiotic as lofting a delivery that can be driven along the ground, and swinging or poking at ones that can be left alone. Premeditation is the enemy of good batting under all circumstances.
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  #11  
Old November 18, 2012, 02:29 AM
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We are a pretty easy gullible bunch, aren't we ??
Just because Darun Shamii said something darun, we are already at it again.
Our coach is idiot, our captain is clueless, they all know it and we dont.Why was he slow, why wasn't he fast. Why why why..........

This is all part of the mind game. We have seen what a cautious Bangladesh can do. They score 556.
A natural stroke making happy go lucky Bangladesh will not have crossed 350. Chasing 245 on a the penultimate and the final session of a test match, you can never go hard at it the way Tamim did on the first innings. You will fail 9.5/10 times. Yes, we may have failed too, but it wasn't because we were any extra cautious, but because of our lack of experience of being in that situation.

Now Sammy is putting this mental pressure on our batsman once again. "Go out there and play your natural shots, you lost the game cuz you were cautious." Thats exactly what he wants from our players. They will rather have a trigger happy 60 ball 70 runs Tamim than him applying his sense and try to stay at the crease for 150 balls. And we all know what Tamim can acheive had he stayed at the wicket and faced 150 balls. That 70 odd ball makes all the difference in the final score card, ie, WI winning by 77 runs.

He wants our best batsman to play aggressive, cuz more often than not, that will get him stuck in his 50s rather than a big century. He wants all our batsman to play their natural game, which is stroke-making outside- off-khochafying self and WI will be more than happy if we did that.
They had the game plan for that Bangladesh, not this Bangladesh that mixed caution with aggression and took a first innings lead.

Darun Shami and his bhais know very well that they have managed to get out of that mess once, but might not be so lucky the next time around.

Its all part of the mind game.
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  #12  
Old November 18, 2012, 02:35 AM
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^Eyakjon darun shami tar bouke na bujhle ke bujhbe?
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  #13  
Old November 18, 2012, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel
^Eyakjon darun shami tar bouke na bujhle ke bujhbe?
hahahaa....je jug esheche tatey darun shami rao tader bouke bujhte onno der shahajjo ney !
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  #14  
Old November 18, 2012, 09:29 AM
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Sohel bhai and Rabz bhai's post just describes what should be done and what should not be done.
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  #15  
Old November 18, 2012, 01:14 PM
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We all know that Tamim is an aggressive batsman and I am okay with it as long as he does not play stupid shots. You generally get at least one hittable ball per over, which Tamim can hit for boundary. But, he was not the biggest problem. Only Shakib got an unplayable ball. The rest got out by themselves. Clearly, Best was hostile, but even against him 245 was very gettable.
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  #16  
Old November 18, 2012, 06:54 PM
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It is not that Tamim Iqbal played slowly, it is just that he got out to playing a rash shot. his approach was just fine until that shot.
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  #17  
Old November 18, 2012, 07:08 PM
Dilscoop Dilscoop is offline
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^ No, his uncharacteristic approach caused that rash shot in the first place. If he played positive cricket instead of choking cricket, he wouldn't have played that shot.
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  #18  
Old November 18, 2012, 09:09 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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I disagree Tamim has to play his natural game...he's not some Ashraful whose natural instincts get him out. Rather he gets out when he slows down and then tries to relieve the pressure. I don't think he's ever had a big innings where he also batted slow. He's no dravid. A lot of times we see him sprint to 30-40 runs and then slow down. That is what he should have done. Inexperience and nerves cost him and the rest of the lineup.
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  #19  
Old November 18, 2012, 09:39 PM
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Sammy playing a mind game here....where he knows tamim will try to blast everythin or anything in the 2nd test....sammy knows very well, if tamim give us start.....than others can contribute. This whole bd team depand on tamim and shakib vhikkha....if they do some vhikkha from the begaining....bd always on track.....so, sammy playing smart politics here.......mark my word, if bd batting first in khulna, either way it will go.....bd will make 600 in one and half days....or dupurer khabar khete jabe 150 kore....
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  #20  
Old November 18, 2012, 09:43 PM
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But my mind is saying different thing....bd will crack wi big time....they r now starting beliving there self that we can play ....we can go......and we know how to come back. Bd team has potensial....they r just getting scared when the times need them...so i guess its time for us to see some change....which is very rare.....very much needed for us....for 16 coror peoples....go bd go.
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  #21  
Old November 19, 2012, 09:17 AM
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The problem is not cautious or aggressive. The problem is the predetermined approach by players, coaches and apparently fans too. You have to adjust according to match situations. You have to be intelligent enough to know where the game is headed and play accordingly. Shakib is the only player that seems to Play with the result in sight. Everyone else is personal milestones or covering their asses. Based on some of the fan responses it's easy to assume these are the types of voices they are surrounded by on a days to day basis. No wonder their is no sense of growth or accountability.
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  #22  
Old November 19, 2012, 10:32 AM
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Let Tamim play how he wants even if it is aggressive because he eases the pressure by giving us a good start. As long as he doesn't over do it and goes for every ball then its perfectly fine by how he plays.
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  #23  
Old November 19, 2012, 04:33 PM
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77 was requierd for Indian to win and Sehwag played his natural game of 25 off 21. Had Tamim done it, Shamim et co would be pitter pattering about it ad nauseum. That was my point when i used the phrase "t20"; which means a 20-over plan. In 20 over 4 runs an over 80 runs and so on... make a plan instead of going out there to stay as long as possible; rotate strikes, play with intent etcetera.
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  #24  
Old November 19, 2012, 05:40 PM
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Can some one tell me how many teams in subcontinent successfully chased down 245+ on a fifth day pitch against a team that is above them at that time?
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  #25  
Old November 19, 2012, 06:24 PM
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Do we have to listen to the psycho-babble of Sammy? Here is someone who despite any demonstrable skills is leading a team due to a set of circumstances (WICB's mismanagement, players strike and unwillingness to take on additional responsibilities by senior players). He should thank his lucky star that he is in the team.

The fact of the matter is that we did not lose the game due to the approach we took chasing a meager target. First, the target could have been much smaller had we not given three lives to Powell to get his ton. Second, we did not play for the draw when the game got out of hand due to early wickets. I see only strike rates around 50 after Naeem's departure! Why? I do not know the answer. What makes it more absurd is that Mushy shoots his mouth that the failure of the batsmen contributed to the loss. What is he? A specialized wicketkeeper? I beg to differ. It is a shame that we cannot outlast two sessions on a friendly pitch. I suppose the Lilliput was not counting on Gazi to be a Gazi. He thought the WI tailenders will make him a Shahid instead and BD will have to bat at most a session. I think BCB should put on gag order on our captians after every loss.
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