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  #1  
Old July 13, 2013, 07:31 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Default Top 5 Test Cricketers From Each Test Nation

Australia:

1 Bradman
2 Warne
3 Gilchrist
4 Mcgrath
5 Miller

England:

1 Grace
2 Barnes
3 Hobbs
4 Hutton?
5 Trueman?

Botham?

West Indies:

1 Sobers
2 Marshall
3 V.Richards
4 Ambrose
5 Headley

India:

1 Tendulkar
2 Gavaskar
3 Kapil
4 Dravid
5 Kumble

South Africa:

1 Kallis
2 G.Pollock
3 Donald
4 B.Richards?
5 Procter?

Steyn?

Pakistan:

1 Imran
2 Wasim
3 Waqar
4 Miandad
5 Inzi

Sri Lanka:

1 Murali
2 Sangakkara
3 Jayawardene
4 De Silva?
5 Vaas?

Jayasuriya? Herath?

New Zealand:

1 Hadlee
2 Crowe
3 Turner
4 Dempster?
5 Bond?

Cairns? JR Reid?

Zimbabwe:

1 A.Flower
2 Houghton
3 Goodwin
4 Streak
5 Strang/G.flower

Bangladesh:

1 Shakib
2 Rahim
3 Tamim
4 Bashar
5 Mashud

Ashraful (dare i say the name)?

Your thoughts? anyone i missed or wrong order? barry richards and mike procter i question marked due to not playing many tests, as much as i believe they were the best the fact is if we are judging the greatest TEST cricketers then part of the criteria is what the player actually achieved in test cricket compared to the others playing for the same country (to me this different to picking say an ATG test team where for me that's more about who i think will win me the match and that's not necessarily the ones who got to prove themselves in the most matches though in most cases it is).

the other question marks are about whether those players did enough to make their top 5 or whether others did more and deserve to be there ahead of them.
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All Time Test XI: 1 Hobbs 2 B.Richards 3 Bradman 4 Pollock 5 V.Richards 6 Sobers 7 Gilchrist 8 Procter 9 Miller 10 Marshall 11 Warne

Last edited by Gowza; July 20, 2013 at 07:34 PM..
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  #2  
Old July 20, 2013, 09:19 AM
koushik koushik is offline
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¤ AUSTRALIA ¤
1.BRADMAN
2.Ponting(av 52) in for Gilchrist(av 47)
3.S.WARNE
4.G.MCGRAW
5.MILLER

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  #3  
Old July 20, 2013, 09:49 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koushik
¤ AUSTRALIA ¤
1.BRADMAN
2.Ponting(av 52) in for Gilchrist(av 47)
3.S.WARNE
4.G.MCGRAW
5.MILLER

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gilchrist is a keeper batsman, ponting just a batsman and gilchrist is the best keper bat of all time, changed the way we look at keepers to and what we expect from them, this is why i have gilchrist top 5 and not ponting.
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  #4  
Old July 20, 2013, 09:55 AM
koushik koushik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
gilchrist is a keeper batsman, ponting just a batsman and gilchrist is the best keper bat of all time, changed the way we look at keepers to and what we expect from them, this is why i have gilchrist top 5 and not ponting.
if u have to be in top 5 .u must have av of 50+ & dont forget 41 century of ponting 5 200.

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  #5  
Old July 20, 2013, 07:37 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koushik
if u have to be in top 5 .u must have av of 50+ & dont forget 41 century of ponting 5 200.

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why? he's a keeper batsman not a pure batsman, and he did average over 50 for most of his career. no one has ever come close as a keeper batsman to the level of keeping gilchrist did and the batting he did. guys like prior might not be that far off with the bat but are far off with the gloves plus prior is only half way through his career, he might get better but might get worse. then you have the sangakkara, de villiers who did well but have played mainly as pure batsmen.

no one will ever convince me to have ponting over gilchrist in an aussie top 5.
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  #6  
Old July 22, 2013, 08:52 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koushik
if u have to be in top 5 .u must have av of 50+ & dont forget 41 century of ponting 5 200.

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yes but adam gilchrist average: 47 with bat whilst keeping at a top quality standard, 17 centuries batting at #7 (compared to ponting's #3 and btw gilchrist got those 17 centuries compared ponting's 41 in less than half the innings of ponting's 41 so there's a good chance gilchrist would have been close to ponting in centuries had they played the same amount of innings but gilchrist scores much quicker and has thetop class wicket keeping that ponting doesn't have), strike rate 81.95.

gilchrist has the 2nd most dismissals in test cricket history, equal 3rd on the list for most dismissals in a match (the 2 ahead are tied in first place with just one more dismissal), equal 4th for most dismissals in a series (the person in first has 2 more dismissals then the next 2 are tied in 2nd place with one more dismissal), 2nd for most catches in a career (keeping), (ahead of healy one of the best ever who played many more matches and ahead of knott, who is considered the greatest gloveman ever, by many catches and only 1 more match), and 4th for most career stumpings ahead of the likes of healy, boucher, knott in similar or a lot less matches.

gilchrist was as good as any keeper ever and right up there with the bat on a consistency level, but scored much faster than most. i understand the love for ponting but adam gilchrist has so far been a one of a kind keeper batsman at the test level. ponting although great, has many batsmen thaat are on his level or possibly even above, not so with gilchrist. all subjective though of course.
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  #7  
Old July 20, 2013, 09:43 AM
koushik koushik is offline
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¤ England ¤
1.sir jack hobbs
2.barnes
3.Botham
4.wally hammond
5.ken barringtone

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  #8  
Old July 20, 2013, 09:53 AM
koushik koushik is offline
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¤ W I ¤
1.sobers
2.richards
3.lara
4.marshal
5.ambrose

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  #9  
Old July 20, 2013, 10:13 AM
koushik koushik is offline
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¤ Sa ¤
1.kallis
2.g.pollock
3.donald
4.s.pollock
5.styen

(procter & richards played only 4 test so u cant consider them)

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  #10  
Old August 5, 2013, 11:17 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koushik
¤ Sa ¤
1.kallis
2.g.pollock
3.donald
4.s.pollock
5.styen

(procter & richards played only 4 test so u cant consider them)

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btw richards only played 4, procter played 7, still not many though.
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  #11  
Old July 20, 2013, 10:17 AM
koushik koushik is offline
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¤ Pakistan ¤
1.imran
2.wasim
3.waqar
4.miadad
5.yousuf(in test yousuf better than inzi)

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  #12  
Old July 23, 2013, 02:31 AM
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One World One World is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koushik
¤ Pakistan ¤
1.imran
2.wasim
3.waqar
4.miadad
5.yousuf(in test yousuf better than inzi)

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Interesting that you could not place a spinner there. This is why Pak is so loveable after all the turmoil their cricket goes through too often.
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  #13  
Old July 23, 2013, 02:36 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One World
Interesting that you could not place a spinner there. This is why Pak is so loveable after all the turmoil their cricket goes through too often.
but understandable, there isn't really an outstanding spinner from Pakistan. ajmal, qasim, saqlain and qadir the best of them.
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  #14  
Old July 20, 2013, 10:26 AM
koushik koushik is offline
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¤ SL ¤
1.MURLI
2.SANGA
3.jayawardane
4.vas
5.de silva

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  #15  
Old July 20, 2013, 10:35 AM
koushik koushik is offline
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¤ NZ ¤
1.HADLE
2.CROWE
3.VETTORI
4.CRAINS
5.BOND

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  #16  
Old July 22, 2013, 08:58 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koushik
¤ NZ ¤
1.HADLE
2.CROWE
3.VETTORI
4.CRAINS
5.BOND

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vettori has been a tremendous asset to the NZ team in his time but i don't think he should quite be in the top 5, close. but his bowling average is rising and going close to 35 while his batting averaging is remaining significantly under 30. maybe he can rectify these things before he retires but i wouldn't think so....i think you have to rate vettori as an all rounder because if you rate him purely as a spinner, even just compared to the best NZ has offered, then he falls far short as there are a few batsmen imo ahead of him in that light. as an all rounder he has more to offer but still falls slightly short imo. was a really good bowler earlier in his career but not so much these days, which sadly i believe is partly due to what the NZ team needed from him so he didn't get to develop his bowling as it could have been as they needed him more as an all rounder which had an effect on his bowling.
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  #17  
Old July 23, 2013, 12:57 AM
koushik koushik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
vettori has been a tremendous asset to the NZ team in his time but i don't think he should quite be in the top 5, close. but his bowling average is rising and going close to 35 while his batting averaging is remaining significantly under 30. maybe he can rectify these things before he retires but i wouldn't think so....i think you have to rate vettori as an all rounder because if you rate him purely as a spinner, even just compared to the best NZ has offered, then he falls far short as there are a few batsmen imo ahead of him in that light. as an all rounder he has more to offer but still falls slightly short imo. was a really good bowler earlier in his career but not so much these days, which sadly i believe is partly due to what the NZ team needed from him so he didn't get to develop his bowling as it could have been as they needed him more as an all rounder which had an effect on his bowling.
vettori is spin verson of kapil dev

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  #18  
Old July 23, 2013, 01:00 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koushik
vettori is spin verson of kapil dev

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i reckon kapil dev was way better than vettori...in talent and performance.
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  #19  
Old July 20, 2013, 10:48 AM
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BD_TigerZ BD_TigerZ is offline
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Mash in place of masud.
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  #20  
Old July 20, 2013, 07:39 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BD_TigerZ
Mash in place of masud.
yeah that was a real though but mash's stats really don't look good as a test player, reckon the glovework of mashud just pushes past him....thought would love to have mash in there, reckon he deserves it.
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  #21  
Old July 20, 2013, 11:44 AM
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@Gowza I think Heath Streak should be among the top 5 for Zim.
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  #22  
Old July 20, 2013, 07:33 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sum_1
@Gowza I think Heath Streak should be among the top 5 for Zim.
holy cow, how did i miss that! yeah streak is meant to be there. will edit.
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  #23  
Old July 23, 2013, 04:52 AM
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BengaliPagol BengaliPagol is offline
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Funny how Gilly couldn't break the NSW side during his early days because Phil Emery was in the side. Emery was a good keeper but had a mediocre FC average of 26. Emery was seen as the master and Gilly was looked upon as a rookie. By moving to Western Australia, it was the best thing Gilly could have done for his career. After that he turned out to be one of the greatest keepers of all time after he made big runs in FC cricket which catapulted him into the national team ahead of Australia's favourite Ian Healy. He could have been Phil Emery's understudy for NSW for all of his career, for all we know. Possibly he could not have even played for Australia if he stayed at NSW... how weird would have that been that potentially one of the best keepers in World Cricket could have been the 2nd choice keeper for his state team all his career...
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Old July 23, 2013, 05:01 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
Funny how Gilly couldn't break the NSW side during his early days because Phil Emery was in the side. Emery was a good keeper but had a mediocre FC average of 26. Emery was seen as the master and Gilly was looked upon as a rookie. By moving to Western Australia, it was the best thing Gilly could have done for his career. After that he turned out to be one of the greatest keepers of all time after he made big runs in FC cricket which catapulted him into the national team ahead of Australia's favourite Ian Healy. He could have been Phil Emery's understudy for NSW for all of his career, for all we know. Possibly he could not have even played for Australia if he stayed at NSW... how weird would have that been that potentially one of the best keepers in World Cricket could have been the 2nd choice keeper for his state team all his career...
yeah it seems ridiculous, moving to WA was the best thing. i can understand why they stuck with emery because he was one of the best at the time and had the reputation and even played for australia. but if gilchrist hadn't moved we could have lost out big time, instead we got one of the greatest of all time.
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  #25  
Old July 23, 2013, 05:18 AM
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BengaliPagol BengaliPagol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
yeah it seems ridiculous, moving to WA was the best thing. i can understand why they stuck with emery because he was one of the best at the time and had the reputation and even played for australia. but if gilchrist hadn't moved we could have lost out big time, instead we got one of the greatest of all time.
Yeah definitely it would have been a massive loss to Australian Cricket. Gilly's story sends out a very good message to younger cricketers. If you can't break into the NSW team or any other state team, if you are dedicated enough and are dreaming big then move interstate so you can have as much exposure to cricket as possible to get the best chance to make a name for yourself. Moving interstate for any young cricketer is very difficult as they are leaving their family and living by themselves in a new environment. It must have been difficult for Gilly and I read it was also very difficult for McGrath as he was a country kid moving into the city to play for NSW.

McGrath had to live in a caravan by himself at night and barely ate dinner sometimes. He did have the urge to go back home because he was home sick but he persevered and realised he had a goal. He would be at the nets late at night (even when it was really cold and chilly) and just continually bowl at the stumps. There would be no one there, just himself. This is what he did as he motivated to achieve a big goal and finally with that perserverance he became one of the best pacers the world has ever seen. I think dedication is the key to it all and frankly I don't see this from anyone in the Bangladesh Cricket team. (except Mushy maybe)

I'm a massive McGrath fan. He was the worst bowler in his club team when he was 14 y.o and his captain joked about a broomstick being a better cricketer than him. He loved cricket so he just kept bowling and bowling and bowling. One step lead to another and he slowly crept up the ranks. He had to work even harder and just kept bowling. Thru hard work and dedication he became the greatest pacers of all time. He is the living proof that hard work (and i mean lots of hard work !) is key to success. The way he bowled, you just know his impeccable line and length bowling comes from his hard work. You can't just be born with that, you need to manufacture that by yourself. No one can teach you how to be bowling smart, what to do when, you need to develop it yourself with hard work.
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