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  #1  
Old December 12, 2002, 12:49 PM
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Default [Old Thread] Wisden Slaughtering Bangladesh

FEEDBACK SPECIAL - BANGLADESH'S TEST STATUS
No infrastructure, no hope



Easy pickings
AFP




In his article In the name of God, go, Dileep Premachandran argued that Bangladesh's Test status should be removed in the light of recent dismal performances. We asked you for your feedback. To add to the debate, please click here


Bangladesh are a classic example of what happens if you grant Test status to a country without the proper infrastructure. The Bangladeshi players were underprepared when they were thrust into the Test arena, with most players having the experience of only a few first-class matches. Should their Test status be taken away? No - it would make more sense to make Bangladesh play one Test match and several four-day matches against top first-class teams rather than an entire Test series against other Test-playing countries. Shohan Rahman
Lets not devalue Test cricket with matches against club-standard teams. I shudder to think what Australia will do to Bangladesh when they meet them. Matt Broad

The only thing that will make the self-important moneymen at the ICC take notice is when the sponsors withdraw from Bangaldesh games and, as already happens, the public stay away. That will have the knock-on effect of making the great God TV think again. These are no more Test matches than a county against a university is a first-class fixture. The ICC are ruining the very game they are supposed to protect. Mark Morrison

The answer is to make Bangladesh play some one-off Test series around the world, and have them play four or five first-class matches against quality regional and county opposition during each tour to improve their technical abilities. Bangladesh have been thrust into the international scene a little early but withdrawing them completely now will only result in complete demoralisation and death of the sport in one of the most enthusiastic regions. John Jameson

Where Bangladesh are concerned it is obvious that this was a political "you scratch my back, Ill scratch yours" bargain. This will probably be Mr Dalmiyas largest contribution to the deterioration of the game. Bangladesh should have two sides playing in India's Ranji Trophy, and maybe an U23 side playing in either India or Sri Lanka's first-class competitions. Niloy Mukherjee

In my opinion Bangladesh do not deserve to be playing Test cricket. If I was an opposing captain I would put them into bat, and once they had been bowled out I would bat for the next three days. They are a disgrace to all the great players who have played cricket to at the highest level. Many of the players who play for Sussex seconds would get into Bangladeshs team. Guy Parkinson

New Test-playing nations have allowed the experienced teams to improve their records e.g. Sobers scoring 365* against Pakistan in 1956. However the Bangladesh experiment seems to be a cruel joke. I watched the matches they played against Pakistan and was convinced that I could play Test cricket if I switched nationalities to Bangladesh. Instead of revoking their Test status, the ICC should suspend Bangladesh from Tests for two years. The Bangladesh national team should play against A teams from other countries and should invest in sending some of their players to represent first-class teams in India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka. Inam ur Rahman

I agree with Dileep's article. In fact he was being too soft. The entire Bangladesh team is worst than an Indian third-grade league team. I only have one problem. Why are India not playing Bangladesh? Brian Lara's world record is two sessions work for Sehwag, unless he dies laughing. Atul

The inclusion of Bangladesh as a Test-playing country has always been a mystery to many, and in light of the recent debacle at Dhaka, it begs the question: what qualifies a team for Test-playing status? If it is on the basis of skill and ability, shouldn't Kenya, Holland or even Canada be given the same privilege as the comically inept Bangladeshis? Emerson Wilshier

What worries me most is brought out by a timely article by S Rajesh in the latest issue of Wisden Asia Cricket. Look at the number of players who are fattening their batting averages by performing 'Herculean' feats against these kind of opponents. Imagine a state where an average of above 50, which is an all time agreed benchmark of batting excellence, will become a farce! Saumya Shanker

The promotion of Bangladesh had little to do with their ability to compete at the highest level of the game, but was purely a political decision to strengthen the hand of the Asian nations in major cricket policy decisions. Bangladesh are paying a heavy price for selfish and self-centred ambition. It is not good for Test cricket to have such an obvious whipping boy and it will damage the progress of the game in Bangladesh. It would be best to relieve them of Test status until they can sustain several regional sides and beat Test nations in ODIs. This won't be done of course, but it should be. Andrew Carr

It is time for them to go. Bangladesh are not worthy of club cricket, let alone Test cricket. They have no domestic infrastructure. Give them one-day status like Kenya has and wait 10 years before considering their inclusion again. Ghutam

Show them up
The next country which plays Bangladesh should show up the idiots at the ICC for the fools they are. Reverse the batting order ... let batsmen bowl ... or on the other hand bat for three days and score over 1000 and see if Bangladesh can lose by an innings and 800+. Perhaps then reality would return to world cricket as opposed to filthy lucre dictating affairs. Will Tabor

Not good enough
Bangladesh have shown that they are not up to playing cricket with the big boys (they're not up to playing with most club sides either). They should keep their Test status but be removed from the ICC championships as their presence just makes a mockery of personal averages. Give them a few one-off matches and some A tours. Peter Mitchell


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  #2  
Old December 12, 2002, 01:17 PM
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While it was heartbreaking to read the comments, I have to agree with what most have said. We are a mockery of Test team.

However, read all the Indian comments. Stuff like we are going to go down to third grade Ranji Trophy Teams and Sehwag is going to score 375 in two sessions!! As if India is some f*cking amazing team! They scored less against NZ last night than we did! And Sehwag scored 2!

Indian arrogance pisses the hell out of me. Who the hell do they think they are? Remember the Roumari border incident a couple of years back when BDR shot 16 BSF soldiers for trespassing our sovereign territory and firing at us, I went to this Indian msg board after that and I was shocked to read the stuff they were writing. Stuff like India should nuke that little piece of sh*t BD into oblivion for having the audacity to kill Indian soldiers... we (India) liberate that piece of sh*t and they show their gratitude by shooting at us, they all deserver to die! I just couldn't believe it. And it was not one or two posts, but hundreds pouring in continuously for weeks. I think India and Pak should nuke each other and do the rest of us a favour!

[Edited on 12-12-2002 by Sham]
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  #3  
Old December 12, 2002, 01:34 PM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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Default Patience

These people will have to eat their words soon.
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  #4  
Old December 12, 2002, 01:42 PM
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Having an ardent interest in military equipment, a frequently visit an Indian website based forum on related issues. While the contents of discussion are at least outstanding, occasional threads on Bangladesh will leave a Bdeshis ear red, and eye full of tears. Granted that the writers their do not by any means represent the masses, given the levels of hardware discussion, they can hardly be described as ignorant ho-ho s !

But on Wisden's e-mail collection, sounds like they are mainly of Indian and Pommie origin - 2 countries that have been playing Test cricket since eternity, with generally abject results.

But I will hang on to Arnab's wisdom - our time will come, make no mistake of that.
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  #5  
Old December 12, 2002, 03:27 PM
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I sent 5 different comments from 5 different e-mails - cursing the shitt out of wisden. None were published - atleast they read it *I am planning to send more* Some of you might want to send some constructive message to make them feel stupid! I do not possess that power!

YUP Arnab "we gotta believe" <--- that should be our motto!! I hope that 'soon' is next test match - So none of them can claim "memory loss" later.

Sham, I like that idea! Those two countries should nuke each other out. I don't know what they think of Bangladesh! Here is a little story...

One day I was in a donut shop very late at night waiting for my train! The pakistani employee was telling me how he wishes "Bangladesh will be back with Pak as one nation" - when my reply was "keep wishing". He said "no, no - I know it will happen." He further mentioned how "two brothers can never be separated, it was a mistake to deceive our brother but all should be forgotten now." He further added "All brothers quarrel sometimes." I was laughing. I think he got offended. Then he gave me a huge lecture on Islam and how pakistan is the subject of pride to all muslims. Then I decided to give him a huge lecture of Terrorism. He got very angry! I got scared and ran out of the store and never paid for those Donuts!!!
(Actually he never charged me saying I was a "good" man after my introduction! - So I was "obligated" to have a conversation with him because of 'Reciprocity norm' of human behavior. I am sure he now regrets his initial reaction of me")

Hey I got free donuts! Beat that!!!

Lesson of the story : Do not shed tears like pundit. Get back at em - doesn't matter how as long as you get back at em!!!
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  #6  
Old December 12, 2002, 03:57 PM
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Amen to that too !
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  #7  
Old December 12, 2002, 05:03 PM
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I sent them feedback on how BD is doing far better than others so far, but not sure if they will post it. It seems like, they are only publishing the negative ones.
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  #8  
Old December 12, 2002, 05:13 PM
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I think Wisden are going overboard. As for Indian arrogance, it pisses me off too! When WI beat dem on their own turf, their excuse was the injuries, when WI were without Lara, Hooper for 1 game, Collins etc. Back to the point though, Bangladesh succombed to an extraordinary piece of bowling! So what! Other teams have succombed to 1 bowler. England were bowled out for 46 by Ambrose!!!!!! Do I see anyone questioning their status! Give Bangladesh time! they will come up with the goods. Just look at my time, written off by everybody as has beens and cast off to the bottom end of the cricket world. We just put faith in our youngsters ( Sarwan, Samuels, Gayle, Hinds, Lawson etc), and gave them the chance to learn international cricket, and now look at how they are doing! Bangladesh are a talented young team who just need to learn to apply themselves! One brilliant spell of bowling does not change that in my opinion!
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  #9  
Old December 12, 2002, 05:51 PM
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Default Amen to that

This is the best thread i've ever read
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  #10  
Old December 12, 2002, 06:03 PM
Shubho Shubho is offline
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Default It makes depressing reading, but let\'s not get scared just yet

Wisden's article (written by an Indian) and the feedback (primarily by Indians) isn't exactly going to be seen by anyone as adequate grounds on which to demote Bangladesh to Associate status. Only the ICC can do it. Yes, maybe we're not preapred now, but we will be. We just have to take the right steps in the right direction. Unfortunately, given the events of late I'm not tremendously encouraged. Nonetheless, one should always try to remain optimistic.

Besides, who gives a toss about Indians anyway? With the military, political and economic power that they wield in the Subcontinent, they should be playing a more brotherly, compassionate and helpful role. But these people are just as cultured or uncultered as certain Pakistani louts that I know, so let's not expect any better of them. By the way, anybody care to explain why a nation of 1.2 billion cannot produce a decent cricket team? Given the pool they can draw from and the aeons they've been playing for, they should be World Champions from now until Judgement Day. They should face the truth: they're bulls*** too. But Indians and Pakis have nothing better to do than compare themselves with other shitty countries. In a world of blind people, the one-eyed man is king; so go-eth the saying.
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  #11  
Old December 12, 2002, 07:29 PM
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Yeah, thats absolutely right. India is pathetic. Pakistan is the same, but because they are the smaller and weaker of the two, they feel that they have to compensate by having a larger ego and acting like they are actually better somehow. As for India, there is no excuse to behave this way. They look around and see countries like Bangladesh, Nepal and Bhutan and instead of being a good neighbour to the smaller states, they feel the need to bully us as much as they can. They should be ashamed of themselves.

I know these posts are getting a tad political, which is mostly my fault so before Tehsin bhai gets mad, I best apologize. No more sub-continental politics from me.
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  #12  
Old December 12, 2002, 08:04 PM
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Just wait!!!
Bangladesh under 15 cricket team went to UAE yesterday to play Asian Cup (under 15) cricket. I don't know anybody's strength at that age level - but still hoping that Bangladesh will do good and beat India & Pakistan in that tournament.
That will be the right answer to all those people.
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  #13  
Old December 12, 2002, 08:46 PM
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Default shabash bangali

i must congratulate all of you for having this discussion presumably on Bangladeshi cricket but really on our twin nemesis, India and Pakistan, without succumbing to anti- or pro- thinking typical of AL and BNP groupthink. It's nice to stand up for ourselves and expose those nations for what they are without feeling like we should be apologists for one or the other. And it's awesome no one has utered the phrase "wisden is tarnishing our nation's image, let's throw their writers in jail".. oops sorry.
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Old December 12, 2002, 09:14 PM
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And Rafiq succumbs to his own temptations.

Bro Tehsin, how hard is it to withold yourself..cmon, jump in and get some eggnog on your face before this holiday bash(ing) is over.
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  #15  
Old December 13, 2002, 02:27 AM
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Default Here I go

(if you wanna read about cricket, it's after 2/3 paragraphs, before that it's just rubbish)

"Good muslims?" - HAHAHAH. Yeah, they are the BEST, *wink* *wink*, What the heck is he doing in America then ? You should have reported the guy for offending you. Sued his *** for suggesting that we need to be with them - it sounded more like they are planning a takeover. Blame on bombing on either them or the other sorry arse we share a border with. You never hear about the loads of innocent farmers they picked up or simply murdered over the last 30 years, have you ? What offends me the most about people is the EGO. How, people are so blind by that ego that they only see wrong in the other side and cry foul when they get a little taste of their own medicine.

By the way, India's third class team ? I'd ask the guy to look at our tour results 2 years back. TUSHER scored a DOUBLE CENTURY again their first class side playing for Bangladesh A. I don't think any of our batsmen can score that many runs against any first class sides from any other country, not on their home soil. Ignorance is bliss. The problem with most ignorant fools - you give 'em facts and they'll just raise their voice to win the arguement. You seen us score 400 against any other teams ? What does that say about their team ?

WE HAVE THE TALENT, WE WERE GOING THE RIGHT DIRECTION. The world cup year was our best year (not because we beat Pakistan but because we were playing like MEN) and the national league was getting promising. Unfortunately it did not last, mostly due to lack of initiative from BCB, actually, it was all due to lack of initiative from BCB.

We are getting worse and what do they do ? Instead of expanding the national league, our only first class tournament, BCB has turned into a farce by making it a FIVE matche league. THAT IS IT. How are we going to build our players ? Where are they going to come from ? What happened to the SCHOOL TEST championship or the JUNIOR national league I asked Mr. Saber to look into 3 years ago ? Instead, that money went into a LAVISH party for the BCB officials and their families. IDIOTS. Another idea I gave was to have a BCB website with all the national and league stats in there. I bet they get lot more ideas like that from regular Joes like you and me and what do they do with it ? NOTHING. That's where they are taking us.

The team we had 3 years ago may not have the Rokons, Ashrafuls or Kapalis but it had heart and it played to it's ability and if it were to play the current lot now, it'd win by an innings cause it doesn't take much to blow our boys away. They have some kind of mental block that is just not letting them come out of their shells.

I say we bring in that Shrink as soon as the second test is over.
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  #16  
Old December 13, 2002, 04:18 AM
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fwullah fwullah is offline
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What the hell did this "Dileep Premachandran" write in his article "In the name of God, go" that all the foreign cricket fans - who are by no means, fans or fond of Bangladesh cricket are so pissed off?

I think the Indians are bored to see their own team on TV a little too much over the years for which they have wanted to see Bangladesh as their favorite team, but failing to do so, the Indians have just become mad. My advice to them: take something else besides cricket to spend your time with.

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  #17  
Old December 13, 2002, 04:49 AM
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Default Wisden\'s anti \'Bangla Test Status campaign\'

Wisden's rants against our Test Status extend into the monthly magazine as well as the web-site. For ages, they didn't bother to do an article on us - then, when they finally decided to do a substantial article on Bangladesh (It was by Scyld Berry, I think) the article just gave us a hammering. He's a good cricket journalist and I respect his opinions but that dosen't make it easier to take.

The only Wisden writer who's had a kind word for us has been the Pakistani cricket columnist, Kamran Abbasi, who gave Bangladesh a postive writeup when we first got Test Status. So thanks for that Mr Abbasi.

I'm aware of the dangers of straying into political territory so I'll keep this next bit brief. However, I'm aware of some of the venom which some uneducated Indians on the web have directed at Bangladesh in recent years. It makes for very unpleasant reading. I can only imagine it's partially connected with the poisonous influence of the Hindu militant crowd.
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Old December 13, 2002, 05:29 AM
Sham Sham is offline
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I wish I could make our players read the comments posted on Wisden about them. Maybe then they would realize what the world thinks of them and toughen up a little. I really hope we improve in Chittagong. If we do, I am going to flood Wisden with emails!! But first, we have to show some fight.
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  #19  
Old December 13, 2002, 09:45 AM
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Default leave it on the field

that's exactly right, sham. tough talk, threats, political speculation, sentimental ramblings from all sides, all this will get us nowhere unless we gain respect on the field. may be a long wait but there is no other way.
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  #20  
Old December 13, 2002, 11:17 AM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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Default Rediff.com article

Bangladesh bashing must end
The Rediff Team


Let's face it, a defeat by an innings and 310 runs does not put Bangladesh at the top of the big-losers list -- that honour actually goes to Australia, which lost to England by an innings and 539 runs, in the 1938 Test at the Kennington Oval; a result largely powered by Len Hutton's innings of 364, the then highest individual score in Test cricket.

Also ahead of Bangladesh, in a list no country would want to advertise, are the likes of South Africa (an innings and 360 runs at the hands of Australia, Wanderers Stadium, 2002), India (an innings and 336 runs, vs West Indies, at the Eden Gardens in 1958 -'59); England (an innings and 332 runs, at the hands of Australia, Brisbane, 1946 -'47); New Zealand (innings and 324 runs, at the Gaddafi Stadium, Pakistan, 2001-'02); and New Zealand again (innings and 322 runs, at the hands of the West Indies, Basin Reserve, 1994 -'95).

By way of sidelight, Pakistan does not figure in the list of top 25 heavy losers of all-time, while Australia has the most entries, having gone down by an innings and plenty 5 times in the top 25 occasions (India is honorably second, with 4).

However, Bangladesh's latest defeat, at the hands of the West Indies, sets the seal on easily the most miserable debut by any team in the Test arena.

The accompanying table tells its own tale.

Country Test Won Lost Drawn Success%

Bangladesh 15 -- 14 1 3.33

Zimbabwe 15 1 7 7 30.00

Sri Lanka 15 1 8 6 26.67

Pakistan 15 3 3 9 50.00

India 15 -- 10 5 33.33

New Zealand 15 -- 6 9 30.00

West Indies 15 2 10 3 23.33

South Africa 15 3 11 1 23.33

Australia 15 7 5 3 56.67

England 15 5 7 3 43.33


Bangladesh has 14 losses in 15 Tests (and one draw, thanks to rain), and a success percentage of 3.33; comparing unfavorably with the 23.33 per cent recorded by both the West Indies, and South Africa, in their first 15 Tests. (Again, an interesting sidelight is Pakistan's record -- at 50 per cent, quite outstanding).

India and the West Indies both suffered 10 defeats in their first 15 Tests, South Africa went one better with 11 -- and look where those countries are now. In comparison, therefore, Bangladesh's record of 14 defeats does not sound all that alarming.

The difference, however, lies in this: Cricket has moved away from its bucolic past, and into an age of frenetic activity. Schedules have never been this crowded -- take, for instance, an India that has, in this year alone, played Tests and ODIs against the West Indies (away), England, West Indies (home) and now New Zealand.

Consider, too, the fact that the International Cricket Council has introduced a world championship of Test cricket, with a schedule mandating that each Test nation should necessarily play all the others, both home and away, in the specified time period.

In an earlier age, a weak debutant had the luxury of spacing out its engagements, of ensuring sufficient space for recovery between one thumping defeat and the next. Also, the stronger nations could space out their tours of the weaker countries, in order that their own standards did not atrophy from a lack of strong challenge.

Neither luxury obtains now.

When Bangladesh was accorded Test status, in the year 2000, then chairman of the ICC Jagmohan Dalmiya -- well, who else? -- argued in the face of criticism that this was part of an effort to globalize the game. 'Trivialize' would have been the more appropriate word.

That Dalmiya, for reasons of his own that had little if anything to do with cricket, was intent on promoting the cause of Bangladesh is a given -- witness the fact that the Dhaka, with just the one stadium, has hosted 42 one-day internationals since October 1998 -- as against, say, 32 at Lord's since 1972. Even more interestingly, 36 of these games were played between 1998-2000 -- and only six after Dalmiya demitted the ICC office.

Why the current BCCI chief chose to favour Bangladesh so inordinately -- to the point where, when in August 2000 England refused to formally kick off that country's Test status by touring, Dalmiya squeezed a Bangladesh tour into India's overcrowded itinerary -- is a question only he has the answer for, and he isn't telling.

The damage was done when the status was accorded. The 15 Tests Bangladesh has played since then have proven just this: that the fledgling Test side is way out of its depth in the modern era of cricket; and that a tour by a top team is a waste of time.

Isn't it time to reverse the decision?

The counter argument often extended -- it is, in fact, an argument once trotted out by Dalmiya himself -- is that if you don't play in the big leagues, your standard won't go up.

Fair enough -- but by that yardstick, do you tell a club level chess player to improve his standards by playing Garry Kasparov? Or do you ask him to test his skills in a state level competition?

If the ICC is all that concerned about developing cricket around the globe, and if the 'globe' does begin with Bangladesh, wouldn't it be better to mandate instead that each year, three of the Test nations should, in turn, send their A teams on tours of that country? Based on the results achieved against these A sides, a decision could then be taken in the future to reinstate Bangladesh as a Test nation.

That is a sensible option. It is also the more humane one -- if the cricketers that are Bangladesh's pride and joy continue to be shamed so ruthlessly in the international arena, the young ones back there will end up with no heroes to emulate, no reason to take to the game.
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Old December 13, 2002, 11:55 AM
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Default Guess what

Well guess what, A teams have never been that interested to come to Bangladesh - before Bangladesh got test status and after getting One day status.

Only two A teams - England A and West Indies A team has come to Bangladesh after Bangladesh got One Day status.

It is also partly a fault of our former BCB president - 'leader' as sometimes called by some people that he never was particularly interested to actually continue the SAARC tournament consisting of A teams of the other three test playing nations of Asia and Bangladesh - that was already existing before Bangladesh getting one day status and won 97 ICC trophy.

With all these suggestions from all foreign sites that Bangladesh should play more against the other test playing countries' A teams, are the teams really coming to Bangladesh? Or, are they even interested to come - even now?

We'll just have to wait and see.

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  #22  
Old December 13, 2002, 01:43 PM
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Default Rediff Article

The Rediff artlice is indeed very interesting, and makes a good attempt to diffuse the tension. They are right. In a sense, it is not Bangladesh's fault that the team is being clobbered by all and sundry. Think about it this way: if you're given test status tomorrow, you'd lose the first 50 tests if you were asked to play them all in the first year. We've had test status for little over a year, so we cannot be expected to do anything special.

On the other hand, the conclusion of the article is a little off. How is it more 'humane' to let us sit out in the cricketing wilderness and deny us much-needed exposure.

The Indians (and others) do not have a clue about the lack of improvement in our cricket. Our infrastructure (whatever little there was) is being pulled apart. The ICC should get involved by checking up on the activities (present and future) of the BCB, and ensure that things are moving in the right direction. This will spare both the ICC and the BCB the embarrassment of having to demote Bangladesh to ODI status again.
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Old December 13, 2002, 02:40 PM
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Default A tours

Does the BCB read ANY of the articles written in Wisden, Rediff or any reputable cricket sites/magazines ? I sure wish they did. Fans have been crying for A tours for a long time but BCB does not seem to care. If it came from outsiders (specially ICC) they would stand up and take notice either out of fear or simply to please them. Amra bolle to kaaj hobena.
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  #24  
Old December 13, 2002, 06:21 PM
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Default Don\'t feel so bad

It took New Zealand like 40 games to chalk up their first win and a lot of losses were prevented by the sheep shaggers weather
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  #25  
Old December 13, 2002, 11:10 PM
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Default send bcb a mail

what is the email or snail mail address for their holinesses at the BCB? I want to send them a letter asking they read all these info and feedback sources, you guys should do the same. plus one can write the local papers i suppose. actually you may be surprised if they pick up on a good suggestion - we may think they are unapproachable but they may just not know any better and could be open to new ideas. i am being uncharacteristically optimistic about my fellow deshis here.
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