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  #126  
Old February 11, 2010, 05:03 AM
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Congrats to Mushfiq for losing the match for us.
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  #127  
Old February 11, 2010, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
Congrats to Mushfiq for losing the match for us.
chure chure mastuto vai. Nz er agent hoye Musfiq k koto taka/dollar diechilen
:-)

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  #128  
Old February 11, 2010, 05:47 AM
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It is not Mushy's fault that he is selected as a keeper even after consistent performances (I mean dropped catches) with the gloves. He is OK as a batsman; but we need an specialist keeper; Dhiman is the best option at the moment.
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  #129  
Old February 11, 2010, 06:18 AM
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I miss Pailot. Good old days.....for 12 years we did not have to think about the work behind the Stumps.
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  #130  
Old February 11, 2010, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaseer
I miss Pailot. Good old days.....for 12 years we did not have to think about the work behind the Stumps.
Pilot was overrated....he missed many himself....
As far as keeping goes, Dhiman is the best behind the stumps...
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  #131  
Old February 11, 2010, 01:56 PM
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Raynman Raynman is offline
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People take some of these things too personally.

Calling for a better keeper in the team should not automatically translate as having a bias against Mushy's batting.

BCB should select the best keeper and then using batting as the distinguishing factor if needed. Unfortunately, it has been the other way around.

Mushy, due to his height, will probably never be a world class keeper and thats unfortunately something beyond his control. He has batting skills that are Test required and in some cases handy in ODI (but more so as a fall back option).

As a keeper, his position in the team should be under scrutiny and with the T20 WC coming up it may not be a bad idea to try out a new limited overs Keeper for BD.
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  #132  
Old February 11, 2010, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
Pilot was overrated....he missed many himself....
As far as keeping goes, Dhiman is the best behind the stumps...
Dhiman, I don't mind. We are in desperate need of a good gloveman, Mush dropped Dan on 4, he went on to score 30 something, every match he is giving free chances to batsmen. How did he get to be a keeper at the first place. His batting strikes once in a blue moon too. His average against g8 ODIs isn't that impressive either. He should be immediately replaced by Dhiman.
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  #133  
Old February 11, 2010, 09:50 PM
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it's what the psychologists will call it red light mentality. whenever a person is in hurry he gets 'more' redlights than greenlights when the truth of the matter is he is not just aware of the all freebie greenlights he gets. my point being, one or two dropped catches as wk doesnt deserve him a flailing or booting him off the team. all these glaring drops may jut out like 'redlights' when in truth you are taking all his other hard works and achievements in wk as granted. smfh

he doesn't need to be dropped, rather to be fine tuned and coached. as my mentor conan o brien said, "one can always get better." only other alternate i see is dhiman but mushy's experience would far outweigh his one. i am ignorant about our domestic cricket so not sure if there are any other worthy contenders but before that x man is put in international arena and grilled in fire, he has to be groomed properly for a smooth transition.

i forgot the bangla proverb, something about milk (why is there always a proverb about milk.. ) where it's said that if the cow doesn't give milk on the nth day it is 'bad' or something along that line...
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  #134  
Old February 11, 2010, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeshanM
it's what the psychologists will call it red light mentality. whenever a person is in hurry he gets 'more' redlights than greenlights when the truth of the matter is he is not just aware of the all freebie greenlights he gets. my point being, one or two dropped catches as wk doesnt deserve him a flailing or booting him off the team. all these glaring drops may jut out like 'redlights' when in truth you are taking all his other hard works and achievements in wk as granted. smfh

he doesn't need to be dropped, rather to be fine tuned and coached. as my mentor conan o brien said, "one can always get better." only other alternate i see is dhiman but mushy's experience would far outweigh his one. i am ignorant about our domestic cricket so not sure if there are any other worthy contenders but before that x man is put in international arena and grilled in fire, he has to be groomed properly for a smooth transition.

i forgot the bangla proverb, something about milk (why is there always a proverb about milk.. ) where it's said that if the cow doesn't give milk on the nth day it is 'bad' or something along that line...
making a case for his batting is a understandable debatable issue but to stand by his keeping as acceptable and not concerning is just simply ridiculous.

Not sure of overall stats but for the past year and half or so I'm pretty sure he has had more simple drops and missed stumpings than he has had takes/stumpings that can be considered a little more than 'easy' by world cricket standards.
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  #135  
Old February 11, 2010, 10:32 PM
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Here is the comparision of Dismissals per Innings (D/I) of Bd keepers:

Overall figures

Player-------- Span------ Mat Inns Dis Ct St Ct Wk Ct Fi MD D/I
Khaled Mashud 1995-2006 126 126 126 91 35 91 0 5 (3ct 2st) 1.000
Mushfiqur Rahim 2006-2010 65 65 56 43 13 43 0 4 (4ct 0st) 0.861
Dhiman Ghosh 2008-2008 14 14 13 9 4 9 0 4 (4ct 0st) 0.928
Hafizur Rahman 1986-1986 2 2 2 2 0 2 0 1 (1ct 0st) 1.000
Nasir Ahmed 1988-1990 7 7 2 1 1 1 0 1 (1ct 0st) 0.285
Hannan Sarkar 2003-2003 2 2 1 1 0 1 0 1 (1ct 0st) 0.500
Jahangir Alam 1999-1999 1 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 (0ct 1st) 1.000
Mohammad Salim 2003-2003 1 1 1 1 0 1 0 1 (1ct 0st) 1.000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Players:

Ian Healy
------- Span Mat Inns Dis Ct St Ct Wk Ct Fi MD------- D/I
overall 1988-1997 168 168 233 194 39 194 0 4 (4ct 0st) 1.386

Dhoni
overall 2004-2010 159 156 205 153 52 153 0 6 (5ct 1st) 1.314

Akmal
overall 2002-2010 115 113 136 116 20 116 0 4 (4ct 0st) 1.203

----------------------------------------
You be the judge given Mushy played half of the number of matches compared to other veterans if his D/I of 0.861 really that atrocious.

----------------------------------------------

@ Raynman, I am not saying it's not an issue, but it's not an issue that warrants his dropping from the keeper's role. As the commies were saying, problem- as confessed by Mushy and (others?), that he keeps his eye on the batsman and not on the ball. Maybe that's something the coach should work on?

And about your height factor, that is not absolute. Height doesn't automatically make you a good keeper, it's rather how you use it. Agility is far more important than just pure height. Jonty was a short fella (compared to others he was playing) but had springs in his feet. Vertical (which is how high you can jump) has no correlation on height.
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The guy you hit? If he got a look at the plates, it won't even take that long. There's no play here. There's no angle, there's no champagne room. I'm not a miracle worker, I'm a janitor. The math on this is simple; the smaller the mess, the easier it is for me to clean up.
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  #136  
Old February 11, 2010, 10:41 PM
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Debating just for being argumentative might not help this critical issue, be it test or ODI we have seen it. Wicket keeping is an art, a special responsibility and I believe there is some extra payroll from each board for this. Now what if a bowler creams, no matter how he remains gritty in the tail end he needs to be dropped with a better replacement. Some of the posts here really comical which makes him another Ash in the team.

Better not some of you need to open another thread titled "Why do we suck at wicket keeping" cos' we did not, if it is hard to believe ask Yaseer.
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  #137  
Old February 12, 2010, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeshanM
Here is the comparision of Dismissals per Innings (D/I) of Bd keepers:

Overall figures

Player-------- Span------ Mat Inns Dis Ct St Ct Wk Ct Fi MD D/I
Khaled Mashud 1995-2006 126 126 126 91 35 91 0 5 (3ct 2st) 1.000
Mushfiqur Rahim 2006-2010 65 65 56 43 13 43 0 4 (4ct 0st) 0.861
Dhiman Ghosh 2008-2008 14 14 13 9 4 9 0 4 (4ct 0st) 0.928
Hafizur Rahman 1986-1986 2 2 2 2 0 2 0 1 (1ct 0st) 1.000
Nasir Ahmed 1988-1990 7 7 2 1 1 1 0 1 (1ct 0st) 0.285
Hannan Sarkar 2003-2003 2 2 1 1 0 1 0 1 (1ct 0st) 0.500
Jahangir Alam 1999-1999 1 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 (0ct 1st) 1.000
Mohammad Salim 2003-2003 1 1 1 1 0 1 0 1 (1ct 0st) 1.000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Players:

Ian Healy
------- Span Mat Inns Dis Ct St Ct Wk Ct Fi MD------- D/I
overall 1988-1997 168 168 233 194 39 194 0 4 (4ct 0st) 1.386

Dhoni
overall 2004-2010 159 156 205 153 52 153 0 6 (5ct 1st) 1.314

Akmal
overall 2002-2010 115 113 136 116 20 116 0 4 (4ct 0st) 1.203

----------------------------------------
You be the judge given Mushy played half of the number of matches compared to other veterans if his D/I of 0.861 really that atrocious.

----------------------------------------------

@ Raynman, I am not saying it's not an issue, but it's not an issue that warrants his dropping from the keeper's role. As the commies were saying, problem- as confessed by Mushy and (others?), that he keeps his eye on the batsman and not on the ball. Maybe that's something the coach should work on?

And about your height factor, that is not absolute. Height doesn't automatically make you a good keeper, it's rather how you use it. Agility is far more important than just pure height. Jonty was a short fella (compared to others he was playing) but had springs in his feet. Vertical (which is how high you can jump) has no correlation on height.
Your stats just prove that Mushy is not up to par with Mashud and Dhiman, let alone Healy and Dhoni. A bigger concern than the <1.0 D/I for Mushy is the number of chances dropped/missed which is the stat that I was referring to as being unavailable. I wouldn't be surprised at that number being close to 2.0/I for him.

Look at Kamran Akmal. He faced the axe for his keeping and he is a very capable batsman.

I love Mushy for his efforts and attitude and I honestly to root for the guy when he's on the field. If he needs coaching and focus and he comes back strong I have no problem with it. But for now, with the T20 WC and the 2011 WC, I would feel much more comfortable with safer hands behind the stumps. Dhiman definitely fits the bill but I'm sure there must be more that are just as capable with better batting skills.
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  #138  
Old February 12, 2010, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeshanM
Here is the comparision of Dismissals per Innings (D/I) of Bd keepers:

Overall figures

Player-------- Span------ Mat Inns Dis Ct St Ct Wk Ct Fi MD D/I
Khaled Mashud 1995-2006 126 126 126 91 35 91 0 5 (3ct 2st) 1.000
Mushfiqur Rahim 2006-2010 65 65 56 43 13 43 0 4 (4ct 0st) 0.861
Dhiman Ghosh 2008-2008 14 14 13 9 4 9 0 4 (4ct 0st) 0.928

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Players:

Ian Healy
------- Span Mat Inns Dis Ct St Ct Wk Ct Fi MD------- D/I
overall 1988-1997 168 168 233 194 39 194 0 4 (4ct 0st) 1.386

Dhoni
overall 2004-2010 159 156 205 153 52 153 0 6 (5ct 1st) 1.314

Akmal
overall 2002-2010 115 113 136 116 20 116 0 4 (4ct 0st) 1.203

----------------------------------------
You be the judge given Mushy played half of the number of matches compared to other veterans if his D/I of 0.861 really that atrocious.

----------------------------------------------



And about your height factor, that is not absolute. Height doesn't automatically make you a good keeper, it's rather how you use it. Agility is far more important than just pure height. Jonty was a short fella (compared to others he was playing) but had springs in his feet. Vertical (which is how high you can jump) has no correlation on height.
His height actually means he can't even reach some of the balls that would've been caught by someone at six feet without even really jumping. And these missed chances ar not even mentioned.

The worrying thing is he'd drop a catch almost every match..a lot of them are such sitters that you'd expect a FC keeper to catch it... if we didn't become so batting-crazy when it comes to keepers, we'd have had two-three in every state. We prob would be having the same problem with every under-19 keeper. Since we always are very happy in finding a great batsman who can keep, no keeper is likely to come up.

Mashud was a great keeper.. His rate of one dismissal per innings was mostly at a time when taking 5 wickets in a match by us was great. Nowadays we probably AVERAGE 7 dismissal per innings, as opposed to prob 4 on AVERAGE back then.

Mashfiq adds a lot of grit to our test team in batting, but easily more than "makes up" for it with his drops. Bowlers must want to choke him..He can't bat in T-20 so should be out of it in favour of a young Animal. In ODI he's a riddle, since an extra batsman is always good and batsman don't often score big 100s, but then the difference can often be 30-40 runs, so his miss rate of 0.7 per innings would make him a worse option than many. I do have doubts about Anamul's pure keeping skills tho..his keeping needs more work. Dhiman I saw to be of world class calibre when he came to Australia..he can be taken as a specialist keeper who bats at 10 . Think of him as a more useful version of Razzak. I'll be glad to know of any other keeper options....didn't someone say Mithun's keeping is also of no good? What about Golam Mabud of Sylhet?
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