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  #1  
Old April 11, 2011, 10:51 AM
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Default "Shane Watson had a brilliant day. Must be Siddons fault?" - Most guys on the forum here

I'm sick and tired of seeing hundreds of threads about Siddons and his failure. Let's face it.
He's more responsible for our batting than anything else and I think we did a fairly good job at getting 229 on a Mirpur pitch. Doesn't matter from what position the team got it from. At the end the score on the board is what counts. Bowling is not what he was made head coach for and it was the bowling that let us down. So stop blaming Siddons for everything.


As a matter of fact, just stop blaming people. We didn't bowl that good and Watson was on fire and had a brilliant innings. Pointing your fingers at our players or coach isn't going to make things any better. This is the best 11 we got and I think it would be more constructive for the players if we support them through their good times as well as their hard times. Siddons is the reason we have been consistently making over 200 (apart from those 2 lapses in the WC) which was not something we could have achieved in the Whatmore era. If we win a match convincingly against a good side, the same people that bash Siddons would open a thread saying Siddons is the best coach ever. So before posting, please ask yourself what the purpose of your post is.
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  #2  
Old April 11, 2011, 11:00 AM
jashan83 jashan83 is offline
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You are right. The problem lies somewhere else. In the 10 years since we got our Test Status we should have really strengthened our domestic structure. Besides the senior team playing BD A should have been touring and playing likes of SA A, AUs A, Ind A or teams like Scot, Neth etc to give exposure in different conditions for our second string team. We should have a robust system where in volunteer should be going into rural areas, slum in cities and searching for talent. Searching such people means that they are committed to cricket as it would give them everything, they are more motivated. The day such a robustness comes in we will start improving. For that we need a professional setup of BCB. They should have a CEO and full time people on Job, not politicians on Honorary jobs.

PS:- One thing I keep reading is that we should copy Sri Lankan system. I studied there system, it cannot be copied as unique to a country of Small Population and High Literacy rate. Their system is heavily dependent on School to feed into cricket teams and clubs. In BD we need to go for the system similar to employed in Brazil football i.e scouting for talent and developing it
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  #3  
Old April 11, 2011, 11:46 AM
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we do need school level coaching at least to learn cricket basics once they lean rteh basics properly teh rest is upto them to develop their own talents but u have to have good basics u must leanr cricket basics in school
bCB needs to train coaches to standardize the school level coaching system.. our players are elarnign basics at national team not schools thats bad
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  #4  
Old April 11, 2011, 12:28 PM
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When too many of these kind of things starts to happen on a regular basis against us, there must be something wrong with us.

No point blaming everything, but no point trying to sugar coat everything either.
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  #5  
Old April 11, 2011, 12:42 PM
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your logic is totaly logicless...we may not have good cricket structure...but what my view is a cricketing nation like us has to depends on national team performance...they have to do something special that the youngsters can follow...so wc is the option here where every people keep their eyes on...youngsters get inspired...like 96 changed srilanka, 83 changed india...their domestic developed...u see our wc performance was bad n we r not getting sponcors...everytime we got success was coz of our oponent was weaker...there was also some bad selection..when u r playing test odi t20 with the same team what does it prove?
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Old April 11, 2011, 01:09 PM
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Bowlers really bowled too crappy today.
Absolute devastating batting and very below par bowling.
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  #7  
Old April 11, 2011, 02:17 PM
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i am sure ian pont is sighing relief for not being involved with the team today
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  #8  
Old April 11, 2011, 02:25 PM
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Shafiul's first ball was a wide....this was a very incompetent, senseless bowling...and his crappy bolwing set the tone for the Aussies.

For the rest...just followed Shafiul...more or less. Even the world's best coaches cannot improve these disabled players' performance should they not improve at their own sense and conscience..

So no criticizing our coaches because we like to be very civil, but then the question arises, what they are doing at 'poor people's tax money?' What is their role!
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  #9  
Old April 11, 2011, 02:28 PM
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I don't buy that bullshit idea that these are the best cricketers in BD... we all know all the politics that goes in to the selection of BD cricket team, there are much more talented players in BD but they never get a chance to get up to the level of world class players because BD doesnt know how to nurture talent and they never get a chance in the national team while trash like Rokibul gets in
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Old April 11, 2011, 02:31 PM
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really bad bad bad bowling...ato baaje bowling kamne kore....and it seems like...if one bowler does bad everyone gets demoralized and joins the wagon...wth.... these players can't be brave enough!...their mental strength is not great...they dont have attitude like brett leee or other aggressive bowlers....really disappointing....where is the fighter spirit...
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  #11  
Old April 11, 2011, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katman
your logic is totaly logicless...we may not have good cricket structure...but what my view is a cricketing nation like us has to depends on national team performance...they have to do something special that the youngsters can follow...so wc is the option here where every people keep their eyes on...youngsters get inspired...like 96 changed srilanka, 83 changed india...their domestic developed...u see our wc performance was bad n we r not getting sponcors...everytime we got success was coz of our oponent was weaker...there was also some bad selection..when u r playing test odi t20 with the same team what does it prove?
Ok sir, tell me what you're doing about it. Does whining like how you are doing right now improve the situation? If it does, please let me know because I may have missed something. Also try to have your locus of control more internally validated. If you don't know what that means try taking a sports psychology class.

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  #12  
Old April 11, 2011, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asif68
I don't buy that bullshit idea that these are the best cricketers in BD... we all know all the politics that goes in to the selection of BD cricket team, there are much more talented players in BD but they never get a chance to get up to the level of world class players because BD doesnt know how to nurture talent and they never get a chance in the national team while trash like Rokibul gets in
At the time of making a team such as when Siddons arrived, it sure did appear that these are the best domestic players in the team. Every single player in the team had some success in the domestic and if I remember correctly most of them were the best we had at that time and while you may argue that there are other players out there now who are performing, you need to avoid excessive turnover as a team. It only destroys the cohesion the coach and players have set up. Unless someone has been consistently making good results in the league over the years, only then I can find the logic behind why they may have been included in the team. Sure politics get in the way and I totally understand where you're coming from when you mention that, but do you think teams like India, Sri Lanka or Pakistan didn't have politics behind their team? So do you think it's helping by making such statements? It is what it is bro and I think it would be better if we accept that and support the bunch of players now rather than saying what could have, should have, must have been done.

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  #13  
Old April 11, 2011, 07:20 PM
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lol check this out, it does seem that Siddons is partly responsible for Watson's epic knock:-

http://www.espncricinfo.com/wc2007/c...ry/291947.html
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  #14  
Old April 11, 2011, 08:05 PM
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^ now that's really funny
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  #15  
Old April 11, 2011, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden
lol check this out, it does seem that Siddons is partly responsible for Watson's epic knock:-

http://www.espncricinfo.com/wc2007/c...ry/291947.html

good find.... it shows that how useless our cricketers are.. but then its not their fault because they are lack in basics first of all....it BCB who should be fixing these by creating more players with right basics before they come to the national team....
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  #16  
Old April 11, 2011, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden
lol check this out, it does seem that Siddons is partly responsible for Watson's epic knock:-

http://www.espncricinfo.com/wc2007/c...ry/291947.html
Great find. A thread needs to be opened for this.
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  #17  
Old April 11, 2011, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asif68
I don't buy that bullshit idea that these are the best cricketers in BD... we all know all the politics that goes in to the selection of BD cricket team, there are much more talented players in BD but they never get a chance to get up to the level of world class players because BD doesnt know how to nurture talent and they never get a chance in the national team while trash like Rokibul gets in
well said
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  #18  
Old April 12, 2011, 12:09 AM
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This isn't funny anymore ...........

Find some new ways to Support JS/Damage our cricket.
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  #19  
Old April 12, 2011, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fsally
Ok sir, tell me what you're doing about it. Does whining like how you are doing right now improve the situation? If it does, please let me know because I may have missed something. Also try to have your locus of control more internally validated. If you don't know what that means try taking a sports psychology class.

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If he was whining what are you doing with this thread?

You might have missed everything about BD cricket, so you think there are Tendulkars sitting to be picked.

If you knopw someone just bring up their names, just don;t ***-U-Me that there are much better players sitting out. Seen the A team, Academy, U 19 and U 17 etc your tendulkars even didnt make it to any of the teams, they arent vissible. If the coach fails to train, and you shart whinning about the standard of player that's silly.

When he took up the job, he knew it was Bangladesh team & their skill level, when he extended for two years he knew the same and now he wants 3 more years still it is the same team. If our players un unable to learn and you understand that from UK, then why the hell coach doesnt understand that? Why he is interested for more time? because, he has identified how easy it is to fool you.

But my friend, get it written, he is a bigger crap than his boss buchanan, that's why KKR fored him after one season. How much of coaching his assistant know, we have seen. He has already destroyed our cricket and you people are all obliging him by voluntarily taking the blame in your Xss.

The team under your fav coach isn't performing, will you please stop whinning about his greatness? Specially questioning the national ability to pull him up is distasteful?
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  #20  
Old April 12, 2011, 12:27 AM
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That's the IPL's fault caz that Watson has to open for Rajasthan Royals in few days he will be playing like this for sure and that's expected and our player should have known as that's coming from him ;
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  #21  
Old April 12, 2011, 01:47 AM
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BANFAN - My arguments.

Quote:
If he was whining what are you doing with this thread?
It's called supporting the team for what they are right now and believing in them and the coaching staff.

Quote:
You might have missed everything about BD cricket, so you think there are Tendulkars sitting to be picked.
I have not missed everything about Bangladesh cricket. Not even close. Also I didn't say such a thing about Tendulkars sitting to be picked. So stop assuming things.

Quote:
If you knopw someone just bring up their names, just don;t ***-U-Me that there are much better players sitting out. Seen the A team, Academy, U 19 and U 17 etc your tendulkars even didnt make it to any of the teams, they arent vissible.
Again stop it with this Tendulkar BS. I never said such a thing. My argument was that Siddons knows the basics, is a Level 3 coach and that it takes time for players to learn from him especially where the domestic structure of a nation is poor. So you can bring a Level 4 coach and it probably wouldn't make much of a difference because the players will absorb the resourcefulness at their own pace. It's the same principle with my experience in Tae Kwon Do. The instructor knows his stuff thoroughly and you might train with him continuously for 4 years and yet you're not a black belt in it. You take time to absorb his resourcefullness. Why do you think Tamim and Shakib still want him to stick around? If they didn't see themselves getting much value out of him, they probably wouldn't have made a statement such as that.
It's patience and persistence of a vision earlier created. Sure you need to change your actions if they are not serving you best, but those are adjustments you make along the way. It's not completely dropping off the whole plan unless your goal is to quit something because you started off on the bad foot. Ian Pont said the same thing over here but I think he related to golf or some other sport..

Quote:
If the coach fails to train, and you shart whinning about the standard of player that's silly.
What makes you say the coach is failing to train? Infact what is your definition of failure? Mine is not putting your best effort as that is something within your control. Results are not. If that's the case how can you say with full certainty that he is not giving his best effort because by some of the comments I've seen Ian Pont make of him over here, he sure seems to be rather serious about his work.

Quote:
When he took up the job, he knew it was Bangladesh team & their skill level, when he extended for two years he knew the same and now he wants 3 more years still it is the same team.
He has a vision of where he wants this team to be. He even stated that on the media multiple times. And I would disagree with you when you say that we are the same team from 3 yrs back. I see more professionalism, character, skill and determination now than what was there 3 years back. Again you can only control those constants and not the results. Results follows if you keep improving the constants under your control.

Quote:
If our players un unable to learn and you understand that from UK, then why the hell coach doesnt understand that?
I do not understand what you have mentioned here.

Quote:
Why he is interested for more time? because, he has identified how easy it is to fool you.
You seem to have a very negative view on humanity.

Quote:
But my friend, get it written, he is a bigger crap than his boss buchanan, that's why KKR fored him after one season.
This doesn't make sense again. He is bigger crap than Buchanan and so that's why KKR fired him? Siddons never worked for KKR and so I don't see your argument here.

Quote:
How much of coaching his assistant know, we have seen. He has already destroyed our cricket and you people are all obliging him by voluntarily taking the blame in your Xss.
I can't answer the first part of your statement however I can answer you with how much I know about sports psych. Currently in my last yr of earning a sports psych degree and I can see the reasons behind some of Siddons actions.
Secondly part of the statement - what's your definition of a team getting destroyed? Mine is excessive turnover of players, not having clear set goals for each players, not encouraging a democratic leadership, losing over 90% of the games and seeing no improvements at all. Again I'm sorry but I cannot agree with you that there has been no improvements in the team. We look a better cohesive unit as a team now than what we did 3 years back where players came in and out of the squad on a regular basis.

Quote:
The team under your fav coach isn't performing
I never said he was my fav coach. So again, stop assuming things. I just think he's a good coach. There is a difference.

Quote:
will you please stop whinning about his greatness?
First of all you can't 'whine' about someones greatness. It makes no sense. Secondly I am not saying he is great or anything, I am just saying that we have been and still are improving under him. Don't believe me? Look at how many times we crossed 200 in batting a yr after he became our coach compared to how many times we crossed 200 when Whatmore was the coach. If you expect a coach to come in to a side who can't score 200 in most of their innings and make completely change the team without taking much time, you're denying how reality works.
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Old April 12, 2011, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fsally
I am just saying that we have been and still are improving under him. Don't believe me? Look at how many times we crossed 200 in batting a yr after he became our coach compared to how many times we crossed 200 when Whatmore was the coach. If you expect a coach to come in to a side who can't score 200 in most of their innings and make completely change the team without taking much time, you're denying how reality works.
We also scored two beautiful scores of 58 and 78 at home .

Whats the point of scoring a great deal of 200+ scores if the opposition chases that in 40 odd overs with half their middle order waiting to bat. Most of Bangladesh's 200+ scores came in batting friendly pitches.

Netherlands and Ireland have scored better than us with both crossing 300 twice in this world cup. They dont have a Jamie Siddons.
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  #23  
Old April 12, 2011, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fsally
BANFAN - My arguments.


It's called supporting the team for what they are right now and believing in them and the coaching staff.


I have not missed everything about Bangladesh cricket. Not even close. Also I didn't say such a thing about Tendulkars sitting to be picked. So stop assuming things.



Again stop it with this Tendulkar BS. I never said such a thing. My argument was that Siddons knows the basics, is a Level 3 coach and that it takes time for players to learn from him especially where the domestic structure of a nation is poor. So you can bring a Level 4 coach and it probably wouldn't make much of a difference because the players will absorb the resourcefulness at their own pace. It's the same principle with my experience in Tae Kwon Do. The instructor knows his stuff thoroughly and you might train with him continuously for 4 years and yet you're not a black belt in it. You take time to absorb his resourcefullness. Why do you think Tamim and Shakib still want him to stick around? If they didn't see themselves getting much value out of him, they probably wouldn't have made a statement such as that.
It's patience and persistence of a vision earlier created. Sure you need to change your actions if they are not serving you best, but those are adjustments you make along the way. It's not completely dropping off the whole plan unless your goal is to quit something because you started off on the bad foot. Ian Pont said the same thing over here but I think he related to golf or some other sport..


What makes you say the coach is failing to train? Infact what is your definition of failure? Mine is not putting your best effort as that is something within your control. Results are not. If that's the case how can you say with full certainty that he is not giving his best effort because by some of the comments I've seen Ian Pont make of him over here, he sure seems to be rather serious about his work.


He has a vision of where he wants this team to be. He even stated that on the media multiple times. And I would disagree with you when you say that we are the same team from 3 yrs back. I see more professionalism, character, skill and determination now than what was there 3 years back. Again you can only control those constants and not the results. Results follows if you keep improving the constants under your control.


I do not understand what you have mentioned here.


You seem to have a very negative view on humanity.


This doesn't make sense again. He is bigger crap than Buchanan and so that's why KKR fired him? Siddons never worked for KKR and so I don't see your argument here.


I can't answer the first part of your statement however I can answer you with how much I know about sports psych. Currently in my last yr of earning a sports psych degree and I can see the reasons behind some of Siddons actions.
Secondly part of the statement - what's your definition of a team getting destroyed? Mine is excessive turnover of players, not having clear set goals for each players, not encouraging a democratic leadership, losing over 90% of the games and seeing no improvements at all. Again I'm sorry but I cannot agree with you that there has been no improvements in the team. We look a better cohesive unit as a team now than what we did 3 years back where players came in and out of the squad on a regular basis.


I never said he was my fav coach. So again, stop assuming things. I just think he's a good coach. There is a difference.


First of all you can't 'whine' about someones greatness. It makes no sense. Secondly I am not saying he is great or anything, I am just saying that we have been and still are improving under him. Don't believe me? Look at how many times we crossed 200 in batting a yr after he became our coach compared to how many times we crossed 200 when Whatmore was the coach. If you expect a coach to come in to a side who can't score 200 in most of their innings and make completely change the team without taking much time, you're denying how reality works.
lol..what a reply..
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  #24  
Old April 12, 2011, 06:33 AM
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BANFAN BANFAN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fsally
BANFAN - My arguments.
It's called supporting the team for what they are right now and believing in them and the coaching staff.
To me this means, weak skills of management, poor problem solving skills .. etc anything but supporting the team. Ignoring crappy mistakes & wrong directions from the coach isn't called supporting. It's no charity, he is being oaid for the job. I would support a coach after series of losses, if he has his strategies and approaches right. JS got everything wrong in Bangladesh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsally
I have not missed everything about Bangladesh cricket. Not even close. Also I didn't say such a thing about Tendulkars sitting to be picked. So stop assuming things.
Again stop it with this Tendulkar BS. I never said such a thing. My argument was that Siddons knows the basics, is a Level 3 coach and that it takes time for players to learn from him especially where the domestic structure of a nation is poor. So you can bring a Level 4 coach and it probably wouldn't make much of a difference because the players will absorb the resourcefulness at their own pace. It's the same principle with my experience in Tae Kwon Do. The instructor knows his stuff thoroughly and you might train with him continuously for 4 years and yet you're not a black belt in it. You take time to absorb his resourcefullness. Why do you think Tamim and Shakib still want him to stick around? If they didn't see themselves getting much value out of him, they probably wouldn't have made a statement such as that.
Again, you probably forgot what youwrote. You said that these are not our best players. There are better players out there. So name them lets see? Or you might like to ***-U-ME that there are, just like your assumotions on Shakib/Tamim's comments. There are a dozzens of level 3 coaches out there, you need to know how to find the best, Just like your employment, every graduate doesnt get a job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsally
What makes you say the coach is failing to train?
Results and the way we achieve that result. 4 years and he has been given everything that he wanted. How far did we progress from 2007 WC? Weren't we move forward from there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsally
He has a vision of where he wants this team to be. He even stated that on the media multiple times. And I would disagree with you when you say that we are the same team from 3 yrs back. I see more professionalism, character, skill and determination now than what was there 3 years back. Again you can only control those constants and not the results. Results follows if you keep improving the constants under your control.
May be you were watching too many other teams lately. Your memory is betraying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsally
I do not understand what you have mentioned here.
You seem to have a very negative view on humanity.
WOW you are so human, you proved it, I don’t want to be human by rehabilitating JS at the cost of our team. I don't want to be that human with JS infact I have no right to be human with JS at the cost of the national team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsally
This doesn't make sense again. He is bigger crap than Buchanan and so that's why KKR fired him? Siddons never worked for KKR and so I don't see your argument here.
Buchanan worked for KKR, if u didnt know. Seems you haven;t followed them beyond BD (if at all u have). Buchanan and Siddons have same principals of development, while they were only coaches of a set team and had hardly any development or teambuilding exercises. Which is required for new teams. The policies of Bucha failed while Sid was persuing with the same policies with BD. If that proved rubish with KKR that should be the same with us. & It is. Has it given us anything good; Team Rules, Multi Captain, Curving Natural abilities of players etc etc? So that's how Bucha comes in comparison with Sid. Hope you get it. Yu must know JS was asst to Bucha not a batting coach.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsally
I can't answer the first part of your statement however I can answer you with how much I know about sports psych. Currently in my last yr of earning a sports psych degree and I can see the reasons behind some of Siddons actions.
Secondly part of the statement - what's your definition of a team getting destroyed? Mine is excessive turnover of players, not having clear set goals for each players, not encouraging a democratic leadership, losing over 90% of the games and seeing no improvements at all. Again I'm sorry but I cannot agree with you that there has been no improvements in the team. We look a better cohesive unit as a team now than what we did 3 years back where players came in and out of the squad on a regular basis.
JS got a core team for 3 years as he wanted and there was no major chopping and changing. If you give all that a coach wants and then the team doesnt improve, who takes responsibility? When you kill the intent, even the best warrior will lose the battle. That amounts to destruction of a unit. May be you watch some other team not BD, since they look more cohessive and professional to you. Think of the matches in WC 2007, it wasn't cohessive to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsally
I never said he was my fav coach. So again, stop assuming things. I just think he's a good coach. There is a difference.
That's enough for being fav? Please leave Shak/Tam and bother telling me why do you think he is a good coach? Should a god coach bring bad results ? Then I would also start thinking so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsally
First of all you can't 'whine' about someones greatness. It makes no sense. Secondly I am not saying he is great or anything, I am just saying that we have been and still are improving under him. Don't believe me? Look at how many times we crossed 200 in batting a yr after he became our coach compared to how many times we crossed 200 when Whatmore was the coach. If you expect a coach to come in to a side who can't score 200 in most of their innings and make completely change the team without taking much time, you're denying how reality works.
Even a coachless team would show better improvement after 4 years of 2007 WC, that's the bench mark to measure improvement of JS's performance. If you are out to support JS, you need to come out with reasons, not just an opinion.
Please don't tell me the bulsh#ts of 200 + score. I have gone through those tortures and my memory isn't challenged yet. Thanks for the English lesson, just use the alternative suits you. Whining: Droning- Dull, Monotonous, Repetitive, boring, .... I get meaning of the sentence with everyone of the word meanings, give it a try.
Once again, it’s not fun anymore, as your thread heading suggests. That proves your love for the person whom most of us think to be part of the problem.
Finally do you acknowledge that we have a problem with the team? Or You find everything in order?
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  #25  
Old April 12, 2011, 07:20 AM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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I urge everyone to take a breather before responding - the exchanges above are now borderline and ready to cross into playing semantics and not logic.
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