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  #26  
Old May 13, 2011, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avik
heres that match highlights where anamul scored a fifty, and then the flying stumping he did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS2dmwa5fd0
He seems a pretty poor keeper against spin according to that video. He missed way too many there.
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  #27  
Old May 13, 2011, 09:35 PM
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Baundule Baundule is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akabir77
we have to find out why the players who were touted as the best can't prosper. i am not saying to keep a player if he scores 10 all the time but we have to bite our toung as we don't have stars and let the other players grow in 1st class. we don't want to take the pain and always trying for glowry and hence in this position even after ten years.

btw I thought mehrab played superve too and played a chance less innings. even anamul said he was the reason for him to play big but we r jumping only for anamul where as we should first consider mehrab first.

but i do think what ian said about grooming them properly but we should not fast track them to ntl team.
There must be a balance between drafting in new players and persisting with old ones. The basic principle is simple. A player must not be selected for the national team for a one-off heroics. But if someone performs consistently for a season or two, that adovocates for him to be a possible candidate. Whether he will be successful also in the national team is something to observe, not something to be assumed of.

When a player is in the national team, he must be given a fair amount of matches/time to perform. This 'amount' may vary; but it must not be years.

This way the team will not face frequent chopping of too many players, while the weaknesses will be tried to get rid of trying new players.

Of those 10 years, we have been following the 'no one else than these 15' strategy for the past 3+ years. In 2007, Whatmore left us with a team on a positive note in terms of results, although there were obvious problems with consistency and the lack of players that can play some of the team roles. Jamie with his static strategy tried to persist with players that repeatedly failed to do that, instead of trying other possible options. At the end, Sir Ashraful and Roq emerged as our powerplay solution!

Anyway, we can learn from the past instead of blaming it and plan and work for a better future.
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  #28  
Old May 13, 2011, 11:56 PM
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Sohel Sohel is offline
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Here's what I think of Siddons on this issue.

When by your own admission you're guys aren't learning and consistently applying in the middle what you're trying to teach them but you're sticking with them anyway, the only way to try and avoid the valid question of your effectiveness as a teacher and motivator -- meaning your basic competence as the head coach of a test playing nation -- is by claiming that "there aren't better players out there" when facts clearly suggest otherwise. Even your questionable strategy and moronic "team rules" get overlooked as players get blamed time and again, but when they do well, they do well because you're a great coach! A Fun and convenient ride when hoards of folks are gullible enough to support you anyway and facilitate that easy ride and even easier money.

We ought to be VERY careful giving anyone the benefit of the doubt like that in the future. We forget that a bad hire is a bad hire no matter where in Australia or wherever else he comes from and perhaps due to our own inferiority complex, think they can do no wrong. I said it before and I'll say it again, any other cricket-serious nation would have gotten rid of him a long time ago, and don't expect him to coach a test playing nation ever again.

@mac: Siddons repeated that "best 15 in the country" BS throughout his term, including right before the WC, not jut in 2007. I'm surprised you didn't know that.
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Last edited by Sohel; May 14, 2011 at 05:35 AM..
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  #29  
Old May 14, 2011, 07:49 PM
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to be fair, there still weren't "anyone better" than the 15 picked for the WC or most of our other series in the Siddons era. guys like Fazle, Kamrul, Noor, Nasir, Asif Ahmed, and Shubhagoto may be the future but they aren't consistent enough nor have they dominated strongly enough to have warranted a place as of yet. the way Anamul Haque has been progressing, I would say he's the only person who might be ready for the big boys. even then i'd toss him into the XI against ZIM in all 6 games, and if he does well, then only would I try him out against the likes of WI and PAK when we see them later on this year. i'm fairly confident he won't be any worse than Junaid Siddique or Imrul Kayes even right now, but we want to produce better players than that.

it is now quite clear that Naeem and Riyad were top order bats forced to play down the order to accommodate the likes of Rock and Ash. hopefully we find places for all our players to play without having people batting out of place like we did at the world cup, and most matches we've played before that.
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  #30  
Old May 14, 2011, 10:16 PM
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We have to agree to disagree on that one Asaad. There are and will always be far better players than DaRok and other dead weight we carried around during his term as HC. Some of the names you mentioned here would've done better with the same number of chances IMHO. Why? Better ability, more positive mindset and yes, consistency at the level where they played the most. Look at these guys play and see how they dominate. They're simply too good for domestic and when there are holes in the national team, can be fast-tracked into the side.

Guys who block full-tosses and half-volleys and can't take singles there for the taking, especially on the legside, because they're adhering to some lazy fraud's moronic team rules, don't deserve to be called batsmen, period.
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  #31  
Old May 15, 2011, 07:48 AM
Banglaguy Banglaguy is offline
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Well, wasn't Rok quite attacking at one point in his career? He wad a really fast 80-odd against India, and 76 against England... I think the mindset of the coach came into full view, with Raqibul Hasan the prime example of it.
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  #32  
Old May 15, 2011, 11:54 AM
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We've seen this several times in the past. Youngsters have done well in domestic cricket but have failed to make any impact whatsoever when drafted in. How much of an indicator are these performances of one's ability to prosper in international cricket? I would rate any of Shahriar Nafees, Alok Kapali and Naeem Islam higher than, let's say, the current day Mohammad Ashraful and Aftab Ahmed; yet the latter were much bigger stars in age groups than the former. Then you have guys like Tushar Imran and Faisal Dickens who are complete n00bs with the bat and yet pile up the runs in FC/List A tournaments. Back in the days, Minhajul Abedin was a man who took domestic competitions by storm, yet until the '99 WC, which was his last tournament ever, he batted like a #11 in international matches.

I suppose it's hard to tell without watching the current pipeline live.
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  #33  
Old May 15, 2011, 12:48 PM
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Quick question to Ian. Do you think a team of 3-4 specialist coaches can take care of a team of 30 players or do you think the coach-player ratio is too high here?
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  #34  
Old May 15, 2011, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
We have to agree to disagree on that one Asaad. There are and will always be far better players than DaRok and other dead weight we carried around during his term as HC. Some of the names you mentioned here would've done better with the same number of chances IMHO.
agree with almost everything you've said. however, this is impossible. for example, some of our players have played 160+ ODIs and 50+ tests. its impossible for someone at NCL, Academy, or A team level to have gotten that level of experience prior to the world cup. the 15 that was chosen for the world cup was at that time the best 15 we had for the job just like Hasibul Hossain Shanto and Saiful Islam were the best pacers we had at that time. Sure a 15 year old Mashrafee was probably still better than those guys circa 1998, but we couldn't have thrown him in.

A player with quality will always get his time. Likewise a player with quality will always score runs and score them consistently. Hence, I am quite optimistic about a lad like Anamul but a tad bit skeptical about the likes of Fazle Rabbi.

Quote:
We've seen this several times in the past. Youngsters have done well in domestic cricket but have failed to make any impact whatsoever when drafted in. How much of an indicator are these performances of one's ability to prosper in international cricket? I would rate any of Shahriar Nafees, Alok Kapali and Naeem Islam higher than, let's say, the current day Mohammad Ashraful and Aftab Ahmed; yet the latter were much bigger stars in age groups than the former. Then you have guys like Tushar Imran and Faisal Dickens who are complete n00bs with the bat and yet pile up the runs in FC/List A tournaments. Back in the days, Minhajul Abedin was a man who took domestic competitions by storm, yet until the '99 WC, which was his last tournament ever, he batted like a #11 in international matches.
I think this is where consistency and standard deviations come into play. Age group level is not a great indicator of top level stardom. Shikhar Dhawan was a beast at age group level, hasn't quite panned out. There are other examples too I'm sure.

But a guy who has consistently been scoring everywhere he's had a chance has the highest likelyhood of breaking the mould that has been set for Bangladesh players for the past decade. Hopefully inshAllah, that includes guys like Anamul.
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  #35  
Old May 15, 2011, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banglaguy
Well, wasn't Rok quite attacking at one point in his career? He wad a really fast 80-odd against India, and 76 against England... I think the mindset of the coach came into full view, with Raqibul Hasan the prime example of it.
Rok was not really a Tamim type of scorer ever but his innings were hitting with SRs of 70 and 80s regularly which wasn't bad at all. I remember cricket king bhai and I talked about Rok and he said before the injury he sustained against Australia, he played more shots which I agree with. He seemed a lot more attacking and positive then now. Its not only with him but Zunaed, Naeem, and Riyad all were very attacking and aggressive. Now all of them get bogged down by blocking half volleys and full tosses just to occupy the crease. Don't wanna blame all of it on Siddons but some blame should go to him as he was the head coach. Those were his products also since they played only under him in the national team. I just feel Siddons was overly defensive with them and now they seem confused out there.

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  #36  
Old May 15, 2011, 11:52 PM
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None of these good record holders of the first class cricket got chance to play in BD test team cos they don't have relatives in BCB like Ashraful has good contacts with BCB so he will always get chance no matter how much he fails to proove his talent
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  #37  
Old May 16, 2011, 02:43 AM
Banglaguy Banglaguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger444
Rok was not really a Tamim type of scorer ever but his innings were hitting with SRs of 70 and 80s regularly which wasn't bad at all. I remember cricket king bhai and I talked about Rok and he said before the injury he sustained against Australia, he played more shots which I agree with. He seemed a lot more attacking and positive then now. Its not only with him but Zunaed, Naeem, and Riyad all were very attacking and aggressive. Now all of them get bogged down by blocking half volleys and full tosses just to occupy the crease. Don't wanna blame all of it on Siddons but some blame should go to him as he was the head coach. Those were his products also since they played only under him in the national team. I just feel Siddons was overly defensive with them and now they seem confused out there.

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I guess, but its just, every once in a while Kayes and M'ullah play winning, or great supporting roles. Rok played one against Ireland. Every player should be a match winner, and yet, I haven't seen a game. Rok has one on his performance. Tamim has, shakib has, kayes has, even zunaid has. wtf
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