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  #51  
Old May 20, 2011, 04:51 PM
Banglaguy Banglaguy is offline
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How can you actually compare the number of deaths. Look at poverty, starvation, prisoners. This is not just a military war. This is a war of sheer dominance, you can't compare 13 kills to a thousand.
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  #52  
Old May 20, 2011, 05:47 PM
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RazabQ RazabQ is offline
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F6 - good arguments. Both parties have blood and blame in their hands. I just don't know if I'd put the onus of 1st move on the Palestinian/Arab governments though. Yes Hamas has to recognize Israel - they need to deal with reality, Israel is strong, democratic and viable nation. But surely, and I'll go all Spiderman on you, "with great power comes great responsibility" and as the assured holder of the upper hand, the Israeli government needs to be the "bigger man"?
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  #53  
Old May 20, 2011, 06:32 PM
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Rifat Rifat is offline
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when a thief steals your property, and after suffering from 100+ years of theft, some third party arbitrator/peacemaker comes to you and says we will give you, the original settlers 50% and we will give the thieves 50%...now you tell me, is this justice????

so when the oppressed ones in that regions attempts to retaliate against those who obliterate/raid homes and families and communities from the face of the earth, they are called "terrorists" in the media? is this an example of true justice?
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  #54  
Old May 20, 2011, 07:17 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakib
WOW at the amount of sucking up that is going on in this thread. just wow.
Care to explain?

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  #55  
Old May 20, 2011, 07:21 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazabQ
F6 - good arguments. Both parties have blood and blame in their hands. I just don't know if I'd put the onus of 1st move on the Palestinian/Arab governments though. Yes Hamas has to recognize Israel - they need to deal with reality, Israel is strong, democratic and viable nation. But surely, and I'll go all Spiderman on you, "with great power comes great responsibility" and as the assured holder of the upper hand, the Israeli government needs to be the "bigger man"?
Close to my way if thinking. I think we Americans need to be the biggest man here. The Israelis will continue to stall and carry on because they believe no matter what they do, the US will have their back. This is what needs to be changed.

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  #56  
Old May 20, 2011, 07:27 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifat
when a thief steals your property, and after suffering from 100+ years of theft, some third party arbitrator/peacemaker comes to you and says we will give you, the original settlers 50% and we will give the thieves 50%...now you tell me, is this justice????

so when the oppressed ones in that regions attempts to retaliate against those who obliterate/raid homes and families and communities from the face of the earth, they are called "terrorists" in the media? is this an example of true justice?
No matter the provocation, putting a bomb in a public place resulting in the deaths of hundreds of innocents and children is terrorism. Not saying the Israelis do not resort to similar acts but we need to recognize wrong no matter who perpetrated it.

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  #57  
Old May 20, 2011, 07:30 PM
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http://
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  #58  
Old May 20, 2011, 07:39 PM
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I would also recommend 'The case of Israel: A study of political zionism' by Roger Garaudy.
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  #59  
Old May 20, 2011, 07:57 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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BCF - you have posted two links. What are YOUR thoughts on the matter? What do you believe in?

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  #60  
Old May 20, 2011, 08:32 PM
Sakib Sakib is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Care to explain?
nah, i don't think i want to. i first thought about partaking in the discussion, but then realized my views might be 'too extreme' for this forum. so i would rather stay quiet.
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  #61  
Old May 20, 2011, 08:40 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakib
nah, i don't think i want to. i first thought about partaking in the discussion, but then realized my views might be 'too extreme' for this forum. so i would rather stay quiet.
Then why comment in the first place at all. It's akin to heckling.

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  #62  
Old May 20, 2011, 08:44 PM
Sakib Sakib is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Then why comment in the first place at all. It's akin to heckling.

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fair enough. will remember that.
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  #63  
Old May 20, 2011, 10:43 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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my personal opinion:

Israel should compromise on Jerusalem and all settlements. The Palestinians should compromise on refugees and borders/security. But as Razab and Doc have said, the onus is on America to push the two together.
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  #64  
Old May 20, 2011, 10:59 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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alF I hear an echo of myself speaking. We have achieved concensus, now if only the protagonists in the middle east can achieve the same.

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  #65  
Old May 20, 2011, 11:40 PM
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Rifat Rifat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Close to my way if thinking. I think we Americans need to be the biggest man here. The Israelis will continue to stall and carry on because they believe no matter what they do, the US will have their back. This is what needs to be changed.

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about the bolded part: as soon as that changes...MMW, the state of Israel will cease to exist!
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  #66  
Old May 21, 2011, 12:13 AM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifat


about the bolded part: as soon as that changes...MMW, the state of Israel will cease to exist!
They have as much right as the Palestinians to have their own homeland.
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  #67  
Old May 21, 2011, 12:17 AM
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Rifat Rifat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
No matter the provocation, putting a bomb in a public place resulting in the deaths of hundreds of innocents and children is terrorism. Not saying the Israelis do not resort to similar acts but we need to recognize wrong no matter who perpetrated it.

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totally agree with everything and the underlined portion is indeed a correct statement. a True Muslim would never do this(kill innocents)!

Call me ignorant, Muslim lover or call me anything you want... but whatever, i have a very hard time trusting Zionist Media for my own personal reasons and this will likely go off-topic.


ok suppose i did believe everything i saw in the media...information such as "suicide bombing"...ever thought about the mentality of the people? when you are born to a Palestinian family, and at the age of three, when you should be learning your
ABCs,and alif-ba-ta-thas.. the first thing you learn is vendetta against those Zionist people who blowed up your house, killed you mom, raped your sister, killed your father...you are in an environment where there is no food for months, no access to the outside world, no access to education, where the Israeli government blocks off all sources of trade to the native Palestinian people... the world of "security checks"...what type of mentality are the kids that are growing up in those type of environment likely to have? of course one wrong will never justify another wrong, but putting things into context, living in these conditions, the suicide bombers see it as their "way out of life" as an expression of vendetta and a political message. they live in an environment where they are not given the basic education to distinguish between a "Zionist" and a "common Israeli Citizen"..as many of the forum members here will agree with me that not Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jews. This is how i define a Zionist: someone who supports the existence of the state of Israel. I personally have no problem with a land solely for People of the Jewish Faith but not at the expense of killing and taking over other people's lands, this issue becomes personal for me particularly when it is my Muslim Brothers and Sisters...

of course, people like myself and many Muslims worldwide including the great majority of Islamic scholars will say suicide is haraam but i am by no means justifying what they do, i am merely presenting that they do and making a poor attempt at explaining what they do based on what i hear from news and internet since i never even met a suicide bomber in my life....so my view is likely to be inaccurate!
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  #68  
Old May 21, 2011, 12:19 AM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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All of that but that still does not make it right.
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  #69  
Old May 21, 2011, 12:24 AM
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Isnaad Isnaad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
They have as much right as the Palestinians to have their own homeland.
Of course I am trying to learn and that is why I am asking you.......wasn't it wrong from Israel's part when they conquered Palestine at the first place? Once again, I am just wanting to learn.
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  #70  
Old May 21, 2011, 12:25 AM
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Rifat Rifat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
They have as much right as the Palestinians to have their own homeland.

yes, but how do you justify that? Palestinians you can justify because it is their original homeland...but Israel it is basically a Global Highway Robbery...

I have no problem with Israelis living on Planet Earth but I do have a serious problem when they kick people out of their homes, kill them and start living in their homes and call it "My Home"...these people make the local school bullies in American Schools look like Newborn Babies.


whether we agree or disagree, correct me if i am wrong, but about 90-95% of all Israelis have something called "Duel-citizenship" which is either from some European Country or the United States, something the Palestinians doesn't have....
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  #71  
Old May 21, 2011, 12:31 AM
magic boy magic boy is offline
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  #72  
Old May 21, 2011, 12:33 AM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Where did the the Jews originally come from? Mars? Arabs, Jews, Akkadians and other semitic races all have their origin here. Some got killed off and some got kicked off. At some point we draw the line and say in fairness - I see your right to live here. Anyway - I'm not here to proxy fight the middle east war all over on BC again. These little forum discussions never changed anyone's opinions. Cheers.

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  #73  
Old May 21, 2011, 12:35 AM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magic boy
Relevance to this thread? Do you agree, disagree, or have an opinion?

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  #74  
Old May 21, 2011, 12:47 AM
magic boy magic boy is offline
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^I think we have to stop hating or killing innocents beyond religious/racial matters. If I were someone to judge the Israel-Palestine issue I would not bring religion/history at the first place but humanity. Immediate initiative to prevent innocent death rather wasting decades discussing on historical issue. This video portrays that we gotta ensure no one get hurt illegally or without judgment be it your friend or foe!

also,I like the comment from the source means we Bangladeshi are not typical hater!

Quote:
Bangladeshi people are not brought up in a society where they learn to hate or fight people from other religions.
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  #75  
Old May 21, 2011, 02:19 AM
F6_Turbo F6_Turbo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Where did the the Jews originally come from? Mars? Arabs, Jews, Akkadians and other semitic races all have their origin here. Some got killed off and some got kicked off. At some point we draw the line and say in fairness - I see your right to live here. Anyway - I'm not here to proxy fight the middle east war all over on BC again. These little forum discussions never changed anyone's opinions. Cheers.

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You're right, they usually don't. But if even one person comes away thinking, hey maybe...just maybe, this is not a pure case of good vs bad, or right vs wrong, they are worth the time and effort.

I realize I've come across Pro-Israeli in this little conversation, in truth I am anything but.

-I strongly believe there should be a viable Palestinian state, not glorified encampments.

-I believe that nation once up and running, has every right to bear arms(unfortunately the discussion seems to be leaning towards a state that will be completely demilitarized).

-Israel should not have the power to deny that nation, vital resources(water, electricity, gas, travel rights)


One other point, those of us living in the west or elsewhere always complain about the bias in the Western Media towards the Israelis. That bias is undeniable, it goes so far that, the BBC, which is probably the most respected news organization in the world, is hated by the Israelis for being neutral on the mid east....haha.

That is the pressure, power and influence the Jewish diaspora have and exert in key places....but is it that strange? Is it so unexpected?

Why do the populace of those nations, and the media feel the way they do? Is it not simply a case of identifying with people that look, sound and have things in common with you?

Why are we, mostly Bangladeshis on a Bangladeshi forum, lamenting about Palestinians? Why do we have a soft spot for them? Did we feel equally as bad for the Rwandans? Who did we side with during the Balkans war? The Serbs? The Croats? How about the conflict in Chechnya? The Russians?

I think it's safe to say no....we identify with the Palestinians because of a real/perceived bond that we have with them, our faith.

During the Lebanese civil war, who did most of us side with? Who would we side with now? The Christian minority? I think not!

So the bias we speak of is undeniably there, and the Palestinian people, let alone the cause do not get a fair go from the world media(specially those run by News Corp - Fox/Sky) but that is par for the course, because we have our own biases.

We need to move beyond that bias, and look at the facts on the ground, and be pragmatic.
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