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  #26  
Old February 9, 2012, 03:48 PM
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Truth is
Quote:
Originally Posted by F6_Turbo
...
It really is just about impossible to hold on to your ideals and principles in our political climate.
Taj has few good following. He failed on his principles and thus left. (could not stop cross-fire or extra judiciary killings)
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  #27  
Old February 11, 2012, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sufism
I do not know if you guys know anything about Pakistani politics. Some serious political waves taking over Pakistan. I would not give a damn about Pakistan politics even one and half year ago. Now I regularly follow headline making news.

All of the Pakistani I know here never talked about politics until last 2 years or so. Now they are all charged up and patriotic all of a sudden. Some of them are paying members of Imran's party. If Imran does succeed, it will send a wave of change through out the subcontinent. I hope he does.

We have a much much more favorable environment for real democracy compared to Pakistan.
I'm curious to know why you think that? I mean, I agree, but with some hesitation. I think these are some of the things that prevent us from being a so-called real democracy (besides the obvious corruption and dynastic politics):

1. Identity crisis. Are you a Bengali first or are you a Muslim foremost? Are you Americanized, Bollywoodized, Ingrej or khati deshi? Is it possible to reconcile their differences? If so, how? Or, better yet, how without being hypocritical or a mixture of contradictions? And what about those Hindus/Christians/Buddhists and Tribal/Indigenous people that we hear about in the news from time to time? Bangladesh has been sold as a homogeneous country for a long time but it's clear that we're not. We need to accept these differences, respect and celebrate them. Easier said than done of course and we can see the kinds of problems that established heterogeneous countries like the USand India have..

2. Lack of political and legal education. An elected government has relatively free reign but an opposition party(ies) need to know how to effectively oppose in and out of Parliament and the public needs to be more aware of their rights.

3. A truly independent judiciary with a more efficient and transparent criminal justice system.
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  #28  
Old February 11, 2012, 07:46 PM
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Good points, Navo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
1. Identity crisis. Are you a Bengali first or are you a Muslim foremost? Are you Americanized, Bollywoodized, Ingrej or khati deshi? Is it possible to reconcile their differences? If so, how? Or, better yet, how without being hypocritical or a mixture of contradictions? And what about those Hindus/Christians/Buddhists and Tribal/Indigenous people that we hear about in the news from time to time? Bangladesh has been sold as a homogeneous country for a long time but it's clear that we're not. We need to accept these differences, respect and celebrate them. Easier said than done of course and we can see the kinds of problems that established heterogeneous countries like the USand India have..
Personally, I believe the identity crisis could be largely ameliorated if we pushed Bangladeshi first as our primary identity. During the Liberation War and its aftermath, Bengali identity was paramount as that served to unite and distinguish us from the Pakistanis. But, in its exclusion of our aboriginal/tribal/indigenous people, it obviously has limitations.

Zia did push a Bangladeshi identity during his regime, although his reasons were somewhat different. It had more to do with serving as a delimiter from the previous Mujib/AL administration and fostering better ties with other Muslim (read Middle Eastern) nations, who had not been that favourably inclined towards us after splitting apart from Pakistan. Unfortunately, this also led to the non-denominational nature of this identity being compromised (particularly during Ershad's and Khaleda's regime).

The most recent victory of AL in the elections has led to the Bengali identity being promulgated again. Once again, it is primarily to distinguish themselves from previous (BNP) administrations; sadly, our politicians have yet to reach the level of maturity which would allow them to continue even the useful policies of their rival party. Personally, I think this is a mistake, because AL has, in many ways, been more sympathetic to our tribal/indigenous populations, and could effectively push for a more secular and inclusive Bangladeshi identity that most of our people would welcome.

Quote:
2. Lack of political and legal education. An elected government has relatively free reign but an opposition party(ies) need to know how to effectively oppose in and out of Parliament and the public needs to be more aware of their rights.
Navo, I think a more critical issue here is having MPs be more responsible to their constituencies and voting as their conscience and reason dictate, even if it means going against the avowed wishes of their party leader. As party policies now stand, all MPs of a particular party vote as one, essentially making themselves sock puppets for either the PM or the Leader of the Opposition. This effectively means that once your party is in opposition, there is nothing you can do (other than stage hartals) to oppose the ruling party's policies.

Yes, ensuring the public knows how the game is rigged would be one approach to altering the current state of affairs.

Quote:
3. A truly independent judiciary with a more efficient and transparent criminal justice system.
Agreed.
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  #29  
Old February 12, 2012, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
I'm curious to know why you think that? I mean, I agree, but with some hesitation. I think these are some of the things that prevent us from being a so-called real democracy (besides the obvious corruption and dynastic politics):

1. Identity crisis. Are you a Bengali first or are you a Muslim foremost? Are you Americanized, Bollywoodized, Ingrej or khati deshi? Is it possible to reconcile their differences? If so, how? Or, better yet, how without being hypocritical or a mixture of contradictions? And what about those Hindus/Christians/Buddhists and Tribal/Indigenous people that we hear about in the news from time to time? Bangladesh has been sold as a homogeneous country for a long time but it's clear that we're not. We need to accept these differences, respect and celebrate them. Easier said than done of course and we can see the kinds of problems that established heterogeneous countries like the US and India have..

2. Lack of political and legal education. An elected government has relatively free reign but an opposition party(ies) need to know how to effectively oppose in and out of Parliament and the public needs to be more aware of their rights.

3. A truly independent judiciary with a more efficient and transparent criminal justice system.
Navo, after reading that I have nothing but the utmost admiration, respect and love for you. Our (Bangladesh) true genuine strength lies in our Multi-culturism, the different religious practices, festivals and the compassion and understanding and bond that is built and nurtured between all these groups, our Hindus, Shiatte, Sunnis, Chrisitians, Buddhists, Athiest, our great Tribal indigenous Bangladeshis.

Since we Moslems and to be exact Sunnis are the main mass majority in our country, and since we sunnis are not getting oppressed by any other in our country, we, I have to ask the true understanding/education/mindset of the ones that do the religion driven crime/torture/murders. Because if they were truly energized by the true concept of Al-Islam, they should know we all have responsibility to protect our minorities from these scumbags. From my understanding from the Al-Quran, in the Surat 'Al-Imran" Allah said you practice your religion and let your neighbour practice his and hers. And to co-exist peacefully. Al-Islam originated in the Arabian Peninsula in a homogenous fabric of people but it proliferated very quickly among diffenrent nearby lands and other ethnic groups of people. So if I can accept another ethnic person as my religious brother, why cannot I accept a man of my own ethnic, village, social group who happened to have a different faith than mine? We must understand that we are all humans, and we are humans first, and if we truly believe Allah the Supreme Master of all known and unknown, He is the Creator of all living beings, HOW can I then cut one of His creations' head because he (the minority human) is of a different faith?

As always the people in power in Bangladesh, most of them are corrupt and have no souls and they are Criminals. It is them who systematically engage all the less educated, unemployed youth toward an idea of Hate. They use them to loot, destroy and kill the minorities for the Powerful's benifit and gain. these people are constatntly steering the country and the sociaty toward a Hate mongering ethnocentric, savage, barbaric and filled with darkness way of life. Of course Navo, what am I writing here...this is nothing new to you and me, we all knew this..
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Last edited by bujhee kom; February 13, 2012 at 02:10 AM..
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  #30  
Old February 13, 2012, 12:36 AM
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All ...... "Old wine in new bottles"..... That's the way to conduct as a new comer into any political party. Unfortunately, this culture won't change anytime soon. Anyone trying to be different will lose his career or life.

Yes, I do agree, an independent judiciary, Media and Civil society could change things, but unfortunately all of them have been politicized so deeply, that it's foolish to expect anything different from them. So it will remain what it is....
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  #31  
Old February 13, 2012, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
1. Identity crisis. Are you a Bengali first or are you a Muslim foremost? Are you Americanized, Bollywoodized, Ingrej or khati deshi? Is it possible to reconcile their differences? If so, how? Or, better yet, how without being hypocritical or a mixture of contradictions? And what about those Hindus/Christians/Buddhists and Tribal/Indigenous people that we hear about in the news from time to time? Bangladesh has been sold as a homogeneous country for a long time but it's clear that we're not. We need to accept these differences, respect and celebrate them. .
We are as homogeneous as a nation can be. I don't think any of the top 20 most populous country has as much homogeneity as us [we are no. 9].

We are overwhelmingly Bengalis. I believe the tribal population won't account more than 2%.The culture of a common Muslim Bengali isn't that different from a Hindu. I grew up with few Hindu neighbors and I never had any issue of getting along. They were one of the most humble and honest people I have ever met.

So I don't think we suffer from identity crisis that much. Look at populous nations such as USA where the white American experience is vastly different from Black or Hispanic experience. In India, the multilingual culture is very prevalent. Even Pakistan had its issue of caste and ethnicities e.g. Punjabis, Pathans, Balochis, Muhajirs. But we don't have that much difference. Even in BPL, I am supporting more than one team.

But I agree most with this statement "We need to accept these differences, respect and celebrate them. ." I love and respect this statement.
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  #32  
Old February 13, 2012, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
I'm curious to know why you think that? I mean, I agree, but with some hesitation. I think these are some of the things that prevent us from being a so-called real democracy (besides the obvious corruption and dynastic politics):

1. Identity crisis. Are you a Bengali first or are you a Muslim foremost? Are you Americanized, Bollywoodized, Ingrej or khati deshi? Is it possible to reconcile their differences? If so, how? Or, better yet, how without being hypocritical or a mixture of contradictions? And what about those Hindus/Christians/Buddhists and Tribal/Indigenous people that we hear about in the news from time to time? Bangladesh has been sold as a homogeneous country for a long time but it's clear that we're not. We need to accept these differences, respect and celebrate them. Easier said than done of course and we can see the kinds of problems that established heterogeneous countries like the USand India have..

2. Lack of political and legal education. An elected government has relatively free reign but an opposition party(ies) need to know how to effectively oppose in and out of Parliament and the public needs to be more aware of their rights.

3. A truly independent judiciary with a more efficient and transparent criminal justice system.
To me, 2 and 3 are the most critical one. One can be a devout Muslim (but not a gora or kath molla, I hate them) and a patriotic Bangladeshi. A good Muslim respects others' faith while practicing his own. (BTW, if you observe what goes on in many so called secular countries, our record since 1971 has been quite good. The one group that was truly mistreated are the Chakmas.

These days, we are on the sad path to lose both identities. The BPL opening ceremony made me so mad!!!
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  #33  
Old February 13, 2012, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaad
Good points, Navo.



Personally, I believe the identity crisis could be largely ameliorated if we pushed Bangladeshi first as our primary identity. During the Liberation War and its aftermath, Bengali identity was paramount as that served to unite and distinguish us from the Pakistanis. But, in its exclusion of our aboriginal/tribal/indigenous people, it obviously has limitations.

Zia did push a Bangladeshi identity during his regime, although his reasons were somewhat different. It had more to do with serving as a delimiter from the previous Mujib/AL administration and fostering better ties with other Muslim (read Middle Eastern) nations, who had not been that favourably inclined towards us after splitting apart from Pakistan. Unfortunately, this also led to the non-denominational nature of this identity being compromised (particularly during Ershad's and Khaleda's regime).

The most recent victory of AL in the elections has led to the Bengali identity being promulgated again. Once again, it is primarily to distinguish themselves from previous (BNP) administrations; sadly, our politicians have yet to reach the level of maturity which would allow them to continue even the useful policies of their rival party. Personally, I think this is a mistake, because AL has, in many ways, been more sympathetic to our tribal/indigenous populations, and could effectively push for a more secular and inclusive Bangladeshi identity that most of our people would welcome.



Navo, I think a more critical issue here is having MPs be more responsible to their constituencies and voting as their conscience and reason dictate, even if it means going against the avowed wishes of their party leader. As party policies now stand, all MPs of a particular party vote as one, essentially making themselves sock puppets for either the PM or the Leader of the Opposition. This effectively means that once your party is in opposition, there is nothing you can do (other than stage hartals) to oppose the ruling party's policies.

Yes, ensuring the public knows how the game is rigged would be one approach to altering the current state of affairs.



Agreed.
1. I wholeheartedly agree with the highlighted statement above. However, fostering a distinct Bangladeshi identity is a very difficult aspect of nation-building.

Don't get me wrong, there is practically a silent consensus among most people that different religions and ethnicities should be respected; that strong religious and cultural values can co-exist, etc. (As Mufi bhai and Shuziburo bhai have pointed out) But the problem is how the question of identity is used in the political sphere and how it is manipulated to create schisms in our society. An ordinary Bangladeshi can almost innately reconcile their Bengali heritage with their faith, their traditional values with their increasing exposure to the world. The problem arises when political forces artificially delineate what is 'Bengali', what is 'Islamic' and what is 'foreign' and force people to choose between them. Such ploys need to be discontinued. As Shaad bhai says, AL has been given a good opportunity to rectify this but they haven't done so yet.

2. If I remember correctly, the tenuous justification given for why MPs have to vote according to party lines is that it prevents 'floor crossing'. Apparently, in the early days, MPs would surreptitiously change their party allegiance and it was feared that Parliament could become unstable as a result, so, floor crossing was banned. The fact that politicians like Barrister Moudud Ahmed changed their political party every few years clearly shows the ineffectiveness of this policy. Whatever merit this policy once had, it has no place in a country that tries to project itself as a multi-party, transparent democracy.

However, the point that I tried to make in my original post is that the opposition parties as a whole should voice their objections in Parliament (rather than in public press conferences). People forget that only a little bit of Parliament's work occurs in the main Chamber and most of the actual legislating and policy making is done behind the scenes in standing committees. There, the Chief Whip has less power and there is more opportunity for across-the-floor negotiation. As far as I am aware, there are at least a few BNP MPs on standing committees and they have the opportunity of voicing their opinion and effecting a real change. Whether they do so, is another matter. Of course, the incumbents act in the same way when they are in the opposition.

Staging protests outside of Parliament is nothing more than a facile exercise in political showmanship which only demonstrates how immature our democracy still is and is detrimental to the economy to boot.
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