Is Tamim-Ash our solution to effective T20 openers yet?

[M.H.Rubel]

In T20 only option left for opening is Tamim ,Ash and Junaid. TTamim is fixed there.Then both Junaid and Ash are almost same.Main problem now with ash is he is slow. Still i want ash there. It brings right left combination plus there is a chance that Ash can be explosive if he regain confidence after playing few matches.

[BengaliPagol]

I wouldnt call Ashraful a 'one dimensional player'. I would call him a strange cricketer with a strange temperament. He can hit every ball for six but at the same time he feels like scoring slow at strange times.

[SMHasan]

Originally Posted by Jadukor
Not yet convinced. Too many dot deliveries during powerplay overs is the main concern. We haven't seen a flying start from them which may be required in high scoring chases. Ireland allowed us to get back into games but the stronger teams will press us on the mat if we start off with 3-4 runs per over in a t-20. Lets see how they go in the remaining matches in europe.

Spot on.

Tamim has been struggling recently, I must say we lost that Tamim who used be ruthless in ODIs. Both he and Ash has been doing same thing recently- which is - playing too many dot balls and not even playing like one dayers. In t20 you have to take at least 5 singles in an over and hit 4s/6s in every other over. but they failed to maintain a healthy runrate. Their strike rate also stays below 100 most of the time.

Since both of them are batting in a same manner it's not going to work for us if not Tamim changes his game soon, if TI finds his gear then I would say Ash can hold and anchor. We will have good foundation. Otherwise this 'duo' isn't going to work.

On the other hand have we learned how to play t20? It's a big NO. It's been a pathetic tour of Europe and I cannot be optimistic for ICC WT20. Sorry people.

[playmaker]

Originally Posted by BANFAN
Look at his stats of recent time... BPL, Domestic, Zim and this series and compare, you will get the picture. In T20s.

Lets see his performance this year: not a single 50!



And SR is less than 100

[Tiger444]

Originally Posted by BANFAN
Look at his stats of recent time... BPL, Domestic, Zim and this series and compare, you will get the picture. In T20s.

In the BPL, they scored the same amount of runs except Junaid's SR was much higher. Then in the DPL, Junaid had the better avg and SR. And Ash got 3 matches compared to Junaid's 1. So while Ash scored more runs, he had more chances, so it's an unfair comparison IMO. Not saying that Junaid is consistent but he's proven to be more consistent then Ash. With Tamim playing in the SLPL, we'll probably see both Junaid and Ash opening so that would be the best indicator to see who should open alongsides Tamim.

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by playmaker
Lets see his performance this year: not a single 50!



And SR is less than 100

Let's see our teams performance this year in T20 ... Only four 50 s, 2 against ire (Nasir/Shak) and two against Ned (Tamim) .. .... 2 at around 100 SR and one on lost cause...LOL @ BD T20

So by your standard only 3 players qualify to play, my friend we need 11 ... That's the fing problem, selecting the better trash from a heap of trash, to make a team. Think you aren't so acquainted with our cricketers' abilities. Pick a name other than the above three, I will show you the holes to lol @

So here it's the question of opening partnership. We need a consistent 140+ SR guy to partner TI and who can remain in the crease long enough, but we don't have one ... Anyone who tries to maintain that SR will collapse cheaply, like Junaid did in "00" ..so instead of dreaming for what we don't have we should go for at least what we have; i.e. one guy at the top who can anchor the innings, rotate strike and maintain about 100 SR.

If TI starts doing that, you are underrutilizing his abilities; If you have followed the matches we lost against Assoc, TI did exactly that job with 108 SR in last match, and thats a big reason why we lost that match because we lacked his services in PP. We lacked someone to Anchor the innings and allow TI to play freely, so we have to be happy with what Ash is delivering now 90-100, while all the other guys can bat freely even when TI departs ... If Ash can gradually take it to 120 level,i will be damn happy with our oppening partnership. Beggars don't have choices. Disturbing him at this point will ruin the team..if its not already done.

[Ajfar]

Originally Posted by Sohel NR
His T20I numbers look better in comparison until you look at his individual scores over the 7 matches he has played so far. Innings of 71, 4, 41, 13, 5, 25 and 0 suggest, once you contextualize those performances purely statistical geekfesting never can, two things stand out pretty clearly: 1) his average has been extraordinarily inflated by the great, pre-Siddons era debut score of 71 against Pakistan in our final match of the first T20I World Cup; and 2) he is not opener or top order material at this format.

He is not an opener/top order material at this format based on his issue with technique, his inability to survive for a long enough time or not able to convert those starts, ok fair enough. But tell me this what is the definition you would use to qualify Tamim, Ash and Mushy as top order material in this format? In terms of technique everyone knows Tamim, Mushy, Ash are miles ahead of Zunaed. If technique was that important in T20 than how come Tamim, Ash and Mushy can't use that to their advantage to produce runs more consistently. Since Tamim has that much big of an advantage over Zunaed why did it take him 18 T20 matches to score his first 50?

Originally Posted by Sohel NR
If "30" is the new "50" in IPLogy, he has only 2 such scores and his batting suggests that he's only capable of such scores on a good day. On that good day, whenever that day may decide to grace Bangladesh with its rare presence

Exactly how many of those 30+ innings does Tamim have after playing 21 T20 matches? 5. How many 30+ innings does Ashraful have after playing 20 T20 matches? 4. How many does Mushy have after playing 23 matches? 2. Again if this is one of the criteria we are using to define who is top order material in T20 and who is not, than exactly why doesn't the 'rare presence' occur more often for Ash, Tamim and Mushy despite having such great techniques and played 10+ games than him.

List of Zunaed's innings from BPL
43 from 23 balls SR 182.61
5 from 4 balls SR 125
11 from 7 balls SR 157.14
26 from 14 balls SR 185.71
25 from 17 balls SR 147.06
89 from 51 balls SR 174.51
0 from 1 balls SR 0.00
29 from 32 balls SR 90.62 (Chasing 106 runs)
8 from 4 balls SR 200.00
0 from 1 balls SR 0.00

In my book what Zunaed has that we need at the top is the intention to attack from the get go. That's the reason I listed all of his BPL scores and SR. He is not interested in sitting back getting into the game, take his time and than attack. It's really important in T20 that you get off to fast tempo, most of the teams pull this off some what successfully against us be it Scotland or Netherlands. In a matter of 3/4 overs they put on 30-40 runs on the board. While are going at 5/6 an over and than hoping Tamim and Shakib can stay long enough to accelerate later on. I'm not saying Zunaed will get us a flying start every time, but if you look at his BPL innings you can tell he has right mindset for a flying start. These starts are just as important because they take a lot of pressure off the batsman's who come later on. It's much easier for a batsman to come in the middle when openers already put a good start at, at least 7-8+ an over. I would love to see him be able to convert those starts into bigger scores but if he can give us a quick fire 20-30+ at the start can serve us well in the long run. Save wicket now attack later doesn't necessary work in T20 like it does it 50 over games because you have much less overs to play. Your idea to play him down the order is good, but why would we do that to Zia since he has done well enough for now to earn a spot. IMO Zunaed should at least be in the 15 man squad for the world cup. It keeps both him and Ashraful on their toes. We only have 2 games in the world cup. If Ash plays the first game and fails, than Zunaed comes in. If Zunaed plays the first game and fails than Ash comes in. Whoever that play the first game and performs, stays on for the next game.

[simon]

I'm very confused between Ash & Junaid,
both Junaid and Ash are inconsistent (thgh I belive Ash is little more consistent & more watchful)
But Junaid certainly has much better SR,but very reckless,he knows only one way,that is attack.
Ash is capable of both attack or defend.

[Tiger444]

Originally Posted by Ajfar
He is not an opener/top order material at this format based on his issue with technique, his inability to survive for a long enough time or not able to convert those starts, ok fair enough. But tell me this what is the definition you would use to qualify Tamim, Ash and Mushy as top order material in this format? In terms of technique everyone knows Tamim, Mushy, Ash are miles ahead of Zunaed. If technique was that important in T20 than how come Tamim, Ash and Mushy can't use that to their advantage to produce runs more consistently. Since Tamim has that much big of an advantage over Zunaed why did it take him 18 T20 matches to score his first 50?



Exactly how many of those 30+ innings does Tamim have after playing 21 T20 matches? 5. How many 30+ innings does Ashraful have after playing 20 T20 matches? 4. How many does Mushy have after playing 23 matches? 2. Again if this is one of the criteria we are using to define who is top order material in T20 and who is not, than exactly why doesn't the 'rare presence' occur more often for Ash, Tamim and Mushy despite having such great techniques and played 10+ games than him.

List of Zunaed's innings from BPL
43 from 23 balls SR 182.61
5 from 4 balls SR 125
11 from 7 balls SR 157.14
26 from 14 balls SR 185.71
25 from 17 balls SR 147.06
89 from 51 balls SR 174.51
0 from 1 balls SR 0.00
29 from 32 balls SR 90.62 (Chasing 106 runs)
8 from 4 balls SR 200.00
0 from 1 balls SR 0.00

In my book what Zunaed has that we need at the top is the intention to attack from the get go. That's the reason I listed all of his BPL scores and SR. He is not interested in sitting back getting into the game, take his time and than attack. It's really important in T20 that you get off to fast tempo, most of the teams pull this off some what successfully against us be it Scotland or Netherlands. In a matter of 3/4 overs they put on 30-40 runs on the board. While are going at 5/6 an over and than hoping Tamim and Shakib can stay long enough to accelerate later on. I'm not saying Zunaed will get us a flying start every time, but if you look at his BPL innings you can tell he has right mindset for a flying start. These starts are just as important because they take a lot of pressure off the batsman's who come later on. It's much easier for a batsman to come in the middle when openers already put a good start at, at least 7-8+ an over. I would love to see him be able to convert those starts into bigger scores but if he can give us a quick fire 20-30+ at the start can serve us well in the long run. Save wicket now attack later doesn't necessary work in T20 like it does it 50 over games because you have much less overs to play. Your idea to play him down the order is good, but why would we do that to Zia since he has done well enough for now to earn a spot. IMO Zunaed should at least be in the 15 man squad for the world cup. It keeps both him and Ashraful on their toes. We only have 2 games in the world cup. If Ash plays the first game and fails, than Zunaed comes in. If Zunaed plays the first game and fails than Ash comes in. Whoever that play the first game and performs, stays on for the next game.

Top post as always Ajfar bro

[BengaliPagol]

But the real question comes if 3 quick wickets fall in the space of 3 overs and Junaid is still in the crease do you want him to so call 'attack the bowling' and get out by making 25 runs? Or would you want some to score at a run a ball strike rate and swing the momentum our way to get to a decent total?

I think if we tell Ash to attack the bowling, he will attack the bowling. So its upto the coach to tell Ash to hit the ball. Ash can also play according to the situation so he can score at a run a ball if he needs to.

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
But the real question comes if 3 quick wickets fall in the space of 3 overs and Junaid is still in the crease do you want him to so call 'attack the bowling' and get out by making 25 runs? Or would you want some to score at a run a ball strike rate and swing the momentum our way to get to a decent total?

I think if we tell Ash to attack the bowling, he will attack the bowling. So its upto the coach to tell Ash to hit the ball. Ash can also play according to the situation so he can score at a run a ball if he needs to.

Valid question. Same concern also comes from Simon.

From the BPL stats posted by Ajfar bro, clearly shows his pattern... He was out facing less than 10 balls in 5 innings of the 10 he played... Less than/ around 20 balls in 2/3 inningses... So he is Geniunely Short lived and quick fire type batsman to contend for a tailed slot max...

We have tried exactly this kind of players before and they didn't do anything good, we wasted time and had to abandon them.. Ideal example is "Aftab" ..

[playmaker]

Originally Posted by BANFAN
Let's see our teams performance this year in T20 ... Only four 50 s, 2 against ire (Nasir/Shak) and two against Ned (Tamim) .. .... 2 at around 100 SR and one on lost cause...LOL @ BD T20

So by your standard only 3 players qualify to play, my friend we need 11 ... That's the fing problem, selecting the better trash from a heap of trash, to make a team. Think you aren't so acquainted with our cricketers' abilities. Pick a name other than the above three, I will show you the holes to lol @

So here it's the question of opening partnership. We need a consistent 140+ SR guy to partner TI and who can remain in the crease long enough, but we don't have one ... Anyone who tries to maintain that SR will collapse cheaply, like Junaid did in "00" ..so instead of dreaming for what we don't have we should go for at least what we have; i.e. one guy at the top who can anchor the innings, rotate strike and maintain about 100 SR.

If TI starts doing that, you are underrutilizing his abilities; If you have followed the matches we lost against Assoc, TI did exactly that job with 108 SR in last match, and thats a big reason why we lost that match because we lacked his services in PP. We lacked someone to Anchor the innings and allow TI to play freely, so we have to be happy with what Ash is delivering now 90-100, while all the other guys can bat freely even when TI departs ... If Ash can gradually take it to 120 level,i will be damn happy with our oppening partnership. Beggars don't have choices. Disturbing him at this point will ruin the team..if its not already done.

It seems you have a lot if misconception about going on about an innings. You see, every batsman has a specific task at his hand and if he does it well then its a job well done. Now do you ask zia to score more runs than Ash? He bats at 6/7 and is asked to blast the ball out of the park. What nasir, is he there to score a slow innings or look for boundarie every now and again.

Ash bats at the top is after 7 matches if you cant score 50, even with a SR below 110 then its a failure in my eyes. If he was aggressive then I wouldve considered.

But no point arguing with you because you are a BLIND ASH fans and any criticism about the Great Ash is not just

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by playmaker
It seems you have a lot if misconception about going on about an innings. You see, every batsman has a specific task at his hand and if he does it well then its a job well done. Now do you ask zia to score more runs than Ash? He bats at 6/7 and is asked to blast the ball out of the park. What nasir, is he there to score a slow innings or look for boundarie every now and again.

Ash bats at the top is after 7 matches if you cant score 50, even with a SR below 110 then its a failure in my eyes. If he was aggressive then I wouldve considered.

But no point arguing with you because you are a BLIND ASH fans and any criticism about the Great Ash is not just

Our star studded team can't survive for very long. They constantly try to play rash shots. That's their conception of T20. Both T20 and ODI have a similarity. The first two need to make a foundation. I agree Ash scores 1 run a ball and doesn't play shots. But, once you have a foundation of a decent no. of runs, all the later batsmen can come and play shots freely to improve the final score. If the foundation is flaky , then later batsmen can't play freely.

[Zunaid]

Originally Posted by playmaker
It seems you have a lot if misconception about going on about an innings. You see, every batsman has a specific task at his hand and if he does it well then its a job well done. Now do you ask zia to score more runs than Ash? He bats at 6/7 and is asked to blast the ball out of the park. What nasir, is he there to score a slow innings or look for boundarie every now and again.

Ash bats at the top is after 7 matches if you cant score 50, even with a SR below 110 then its a failure in my eyes. If he was aggressive then I wouldve considered.

But no point arguing with you because you are a BLIND ASH fans and any criticism about the Great Ash is not just

Please cease ad hominem attacks. Counter the message and not the messenger. You are getting worked up in your last few posts. I suggest you step away from the computer and get a breath of fresh air. It'll do you good.

- as admin

[playmaker]

Originally Posted by Zunaid
Please cease ad hominem attacks. Counter the message and not the messenger. You are getting worked up in your last few posts. I suggest you step away from the computer and get a breath of fresh air. It'll do you good.

- as admin

OMG Im starting to have the kiwibd effect

my apologies to BF

[Zunaid]

A back handed apology? Hmmmm.

[Zunaid]

Originally Posted by playmaker
OMG Im starting to have the kiwibd effect

my apologies to BF

On second read, I may have read too much into your post. Ignore my admonishment and carry on.

[BengaliPagol]

Originally Posted by playmaker
It seems you have a lot if misconception about going on about an innings. You see, every batsman has a specific task at his hand and if he does it well then its a job well done. Now do you ask zia to score more runs than Ash? He bats at 6/7 and is asked to blast the ball out of the park. What nasir, is he there to score a slow innings or look for boundarie every now and again.

Ash bats at the top is after 7 matches if you cant score 50, even with a SR below 110 then its a failure in my eyes. If he was aggressive then I wouldve considered.

But no point arguing with you because you are a BLIND ASH fans and any criticism about the Great Ash is not just

If you are supporting Ash in something it doesnt mean your his fan. If you think failure this and failure that then lets all just convince David Warner to play for Bangladesh so we can solve this failure problem. Do you think we have class batsmen on our wings who will fill your criteria of 30 ball 50s every match?

[BengaliPagol]

Originally Posted by Zunaid
Please cease ad hominem attacks. Counter the message and not the messenger. You are getting worked up in your last few posts. I suggest you step away from the computer and get a breath of fresh air. It'll do you good.

- as admin

The side affects of too much Ash hating.

[Gowza]

Want ash to do well since he is currently in the national team but I think he's really gone downhill a lot.

[playmaker]

Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
The side affects of too much Ash hating.

Im not an Ash hater, its just that I cant stand him getting oppurtunities after oppurtunities and not making them count

[Gowza]

neither junaid or ash have done that well, tough to pick between the 2 really. probably need to give junaid a couple more games, if he can't do anything then go with ash. otherwise find someone else.