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  #1  
Old September 26, 2012, 07:38 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Default Perhaps we are just not good enough (now)

Why can we not admit it? We are just not good enough.

With the exception of one or two players, the team is packed with mediocre players and pipeline doesn't look promising. With the exception of just a few players, the team is full of also-rans and the pipeline looks bleak.

We are just not a very capable team - be it in T20s, ODIs, or Tests. How else have we been losing on a regular basis to associate teams during the run up to this world cup? Yeah, we can beat the top 8 once in a while but unless our losses to the associates are considered upsets, there is nothing for us to be proud of.

Am I pessimistic? Yes, partially. I have noticed a certain regression in team. Granted we've had ups and downs but the projection was always upwards. We were moving up - albeit not as fast as I would have liked but we were.

Ever since the WC we seem to have been on a downward trajectory. Only the skills of Shakib and Tamim with the occasional contributions by a few others have given us some periods of joy. The rest of the time, it has been painful to watch the mediocrity and the way this mediocrity is celebrated.

Our sights should be set forward on the Kiwis and the Windies and not behind us. At this stage, beating the likes of AFG and IRL should be a given, no matter how quickly they are developing and how strong they are now. If we do not, the implications is that not only are we not developing, we are regressing.

Look at where the team stands now.

We really only have Tamim and Shakib. Mushy seems to be in a very long off-form patch. Nasir hasn't quite matured enough to bring real value. Zia is unTested (pun intended). All the other batsmen are just water boys. We have no one else a power hitter. We have no one else who can stay the course. The team hasn't yet mastered the simple skill of running between the wickets. They get bogged down and thy hit out (and get out) under pressure.

As for bowlers, the picture isn't rosy either. Rubel is missed. Mash is getting old (while he is still young) and doesn't have the brains to bowl at the death. All the remaining pacers are that in name only. Let's face it - the bowling is one-dimensional. We have a slew of SLAs who are as wont to give gifts (ala Razzak) as to take wickets (ala Shakib). We have not variety - no offspinner, no leg spinner, and no real fast bowler.

The biggest issue I see is the bipolar disease of complacency and lack of self worth. This is quite evidence from the garbage that spews from the mouths of our cricketers when they are interviewed. They are complacent enough to not work professionally. They are complacent enough to be satisfied celebrating scraping through a series with an associate. They have a serious case of " we are not good enough-itis". If you do not think you are good enough, you will never be good enough. I do not see a professionalism - I do not see a professional work ethic. All I see is a bunch of overpaid crybabies chaperoned by a bunch of overpaid guardians who may not be doing the job they need to be doing. I will hold off on commenting on RP for now but in all other areas the team seem to have denatured - bowling, fielding, batting, cricket sense et al.

Ok, time to pack and catch a plane later today...

/RANT OFF
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  #2  
Old September 26, 2012, 07:54 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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BD has always been inconsistent against any team, there was a period of domination of zimbabwe, but over the last 3-4 years BD has been getting more wins in ODIs or if not winning making a better account for themselves, the improvement is there but it's slow.

shakib and tamim are our 2 best clearly. mushy has the skills but is inconsistent. nasir is an important prospect, so far he's had a good head on his shoulders and has played within his limitations, this mentality has brought him success, if more BD players played like this then they'd get more success to.

slowly but surely the team is getting better. tamim and shakib are there, i'm confident nasir will continue if not improve, i think mushy will eventually get there and i think anamul and mominul are vital prospects for BD.

the bowling future is harder to predict, we have some solid SLAs who will continue to be solid i'm sure and we always have some in the pipeline. but the thing is the selectors doni't really test the strengths of our offies or our pacers. we continually stick with the same pacer prospects which haven't been developing apart from rubel. there are performing pacers such as al amin, abu jayed, the left handed kamrul and possibly others who have done well but not been given chances even though guys like shafiul are continually selected and failing.
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  #3  
Old September 26, 2012, 08:04 PM
SS SS is offline
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Dr. Z great article and Shakib also concur with you...Great mind think alike

http://www.prothom-alo.com/detail/da...27/news/293001

Last edited by SS; September 27, 2012 at 08:33 AM..
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  #4  
Old September 26, 2012, 08:17 PM
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BengaliPagol BengaliPagol is offline
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Just get Mominul and Anamul into the team for crying out loud. Im fed up with the no intent attitude and in certain situations where we look lost. We might as well get newbies into the team who want to perform and get rid off the deadwood in the team.The batting crumbles in certain situations and its just disgusting how our boys cant deliver while the BD team have so many passionate fans all over the globe. They just dont want to improve. Simple as that.

For ODI's.
1. Tamim Iqbal
2.
3.
4. Nasir Hossain
5. Shakib Al Hasan
6. Mushfiqur Rahim
7.
8. Mashrafe Mortaza
9. Abdur Razzak/Elias Sunny
10.
11. Rubel Hossain

Ive listed the players that are guaranteed in the team. The missing positions are ones that we need to fill so we can get rid off deadwood in the team ie Shafiul Islam and co. If we find good players who have the right work ethic for the missing positions then we would be a more better looking team. At this time Mahmudullah's position in the team is very questionable. The #2, #3 and #7 positions need to be filled with good players who can perform. I would like Imrul to continue being Tamim's partner in ODIs but we might look towards youngsters such as Mominul or Anamul. We are in dire need of a proper #7 batsmen. Till Mushfiq finds form i reckon he could bat at #7 for us. He doesnt fall under pressure as easily and he can make quick runs in the death overs.

A decent ODI XI
1. Tamim Iqbal
2. Imrul Kayes
3. Anamul Haque
4. Mominul Haque
5. Shakib Al Hasan
6. Nasir Hossain
7. Mushfiqur Rahim
8. Mashrafe Mortaza
9. Abdur Razzak/Elias Sunny
10. BengaliPagol
11. Rubel Hossain

We are in dire need of pace bowlers. Hopefully in 2 years ill try breaking into the NSW's team as quick as i can and BCB notice that im Bangali and so ill move to BD and quickly get into the BD team ASAP. This is an emergency situation.
LOLjks but seriously we need pace bowlers... im just pissed that our pace bowlers have no brains inside their head.

For now id put Mushfiq at #7 so...
1. We can get rid off as much deadwood from the team as possible
2. He is out of form lately

We might also play both Sunny and Razzak in the same team depending on pitch and the team we are playing.
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  #5  
Old September 26, 2012, 08:23 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS
Dr. Z great article and Shakib also concur with you...Great mind things alike

http://www.prothom-alo.com/detail/da...27/news/293001
He know his mind.

The most telling parts:

Quote:
এমন বড় আসরে এসে তো দেশের ক্রিকেটের সামগ্রিক অনেক কিছু আলোচনায় চলে আসে। বিশেষ কিছু কি কখনো মনে হচ্ছে আপনার?

সাকিব: আমার শুধু মনে হয়, আমাদের ক্রিকেটে প্রতিদ্বন্দ্বিতা খুব অভাব। এই যে টিভিতে ইরানি ট্রফি দেখছি, রেস্ট অব ইন্ডিয়ার সব ব্যাটসম্যানই বলতে গেলে সেঞ্চুরি করছে। দলে যারা আছে, তাদের ওপর চাপ তৈরি করছে। আমাদের দেশে ওটা কই? আমাদের বাঁহাতি স্পিনাররা বেশি খাটে, কারণ ওরা জানে দেশে অনেক বাঁহাতি স্পিনার আছে। আমাদের দেশেই যদি আমার মতো আরেকটা প্লেয়ার থাকত যে আমার মতোই পারফর্ম করছে, তখন আমাদের দুজনের পারফরম্যান্সই আরও ভালো হতো। মনোজ তিওয়ারির ঘটনা দেখেন না, সেঞ্চুরি করার পর ১০ ম্যাচ বাইরে বসে থাকল। আমাদের দেশে কেউ সেঞ্চুরি করলে তো নিশ্চিন্তে ম্যাচের পর ম্যাচ খেলে যেত। আপনি যত কিছুই বলেন, ধরে পেটান, এই কম্পিটিশনটা না থাকলে ভেতর থেকে ওই তাগিদটা আসবে না। সাঈদ আজমল সেদিন বলছিল, দুসরা শেখার জন্য টানা চার মাস ও বল করে গেছে, ওর বউ বল ফেরত দিয়ে গেছে। আমাদের দেশে কে এমন করে? সেদিন ও সাকলায়েনের সঙ্গে কথা বলল, দক্ষিণ আফ্রিকার সঙ্গে খেলায় আমলাকে কীভাবে বল করবে জানতে চেয়ে। আমিও বসে বসে শুনলাম। হরভজন আর অশ্বিনের ঘটনা দেখেন না, অশ্বিন প্রতি ম্যাচেই ভালো করতে চেয়েছে, কারণ ও জানে হরভজন বাইরে বসে আছে। এখন হরভজন ফিরেছে, ওরা দুজনই আরও ভালো খেলবে। আমাদের দেশে এই প্রতিদ্বন্দ্বিতা ার খুব অভাব।

 এটার কারণ কী?
সাকিব: এটা বলতে গেলে অনেক কিছু আসবে। আজ এটুকুই থাক
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  #6  
Old September 26, 2012, 08:28 PM
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ialbd ialbd is offline
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^^^ Shakib is just so disgusted with the rest of the team. Everyone wants Shakib to win it for them with the bat & the ball and they'll join the celebration in the end...
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  #7  
Old September 26, 2012, 08:31 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ialbd
^^^ Shakib is just so disgusted with the rest of the team. Everyone wants Shakib to win it for them with the bat & the ball and they'll join the celebration in the end...
Anybody just as disgusted as Shakib and I am? I know Atimar is. Does anyone agree that we have actually regressed the past year or so?
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  #8  
Old September 26, 2012, 08:35 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
Just get Mominul and Anamul into the team for crying out loud. Im fed up with the no intent attitude and in certain situations where we look lost. We might as well get newbies into the team who want to perform and get rid off the deadwood in the team.The batting crumbles in certain situations and its just disgusting how our boys cant deliver while the BD team have so many passionate fans all over the globe. They just dont want to improve. Simple as that.

For ODI's.
1. Tamim Iqbal
2.
3.
4. Nasir Hossain
5. Shakib Al Hasan
6. Mushfiqur Rahim
7.
8. Mashrafe Mortaza
9. Abdur Razzak/Elias Sunny
10.
11. Rubel Hossain

Ive listed the players that are guaranteed in the team. The missing positions are ones that we need to fill so we can get rid off deadwood in the team ie Shafiul Islam and co. If we find good players who have the right work ethic for the missing positions then we would be a more better looking team. At this time Mahmudullah's position in the team is very questionable. The #2, #3 and #7 positions need to be filled with good players who can perform. I would like Imrul to continue being Tamim's partner in ODIs but we might look towards youngsters such as Mominul or Anamul. We are in dire need of a proper #7 batsmen. Till Mushfiq finds form i reckon he could bat at #7 for us. He doesnt fall under pressure as easily and he can make quick runs in the death overs.

A decent ODI XI
1. Tamim Iqbal
2. Imrul Kayes
3. Anamul Haque
4. Mominul Haque
5. Shakib Al Hasan
6. Nasir Hossain
7. Mushfiqur Rahim
8. Mashrafe Mortaza
9. Abdur Razzak/Elias Sunny
10. BengaliPagol
11. Rubel Hossain

We are in dire need of pace bowlers. Hopefully in 2 years ill try breaking into the NSW's team as quick as i can and BCB notice that im Bangali and so ill move to BD and quickly get into the BD team ASAP. This is an emergency situation.
LOLjks but seriously we need pace bowlers... im just pissed that our pace bowlers have no brains inside their head.

For now id put Mushfiq at #7 so...
1. We can get rid off as much deadwood from the team as possible
2. He is out of form lately

We might also play both Sunny and Razzak in the same team depending on pitch and the team we are playing.
i know a lot of us want mominul and anamul in the team as soon as possible but we need to be careful with them, they are our best performers outside the national team but they also need to show signs of succeeding at A team level or against quality attacks. i really hope they perform in the up coming A team matches because if they don't then there is reason to not select them just yet for the national team. i'm all for getting them in as soon as possible and really want them in now, but if they fail in these A team matches we have to question their readiness.
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  #9  
Old September 26, 2012, 08:43 PM
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BengaliPagol BengaliPagol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
i know a lot of us want mominul and anamul in the team as soon as possible but we need to be careful with them, they are our best performers outside the national team but they also need to show signs of succeeding at A team level or against quality attacks. i really hope they perform in the up coming A team matches because if they don't then there is reason to not select them just yet for the national team. i'm all for getting them in as soon as possible and really want them in now, but if they fail in these A team matches we have to question their readiness.
Yeah i know that rushing them isnt the best option but im just so pissed that there is so much deadwood in the team. We have to get rid off them in order to be a better team. I have ZERO faith on Shafiul to do well. He just doesnt learn and it just worries me that he is our only option as a bowling choice.

And also im concerned about Mahmudullah
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  #10  
Old September 26, 2012, 08:48 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
Yeah i know that rushing them isnt the best option but im just so pissed that there is so much deadwood in the team. We have to get rid off them in order to be a better team. I have ZERO faith on Shafiul to do well. He just doesnt learn and it just worries me that he is our only option as a bowling choice.

And also im concerned about Mahmudullah
me to, don't like the deadwood. also agree, shafiul isn't learning and riyad is a concern atm.
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  #11  
Old September 26, 2012, 08:48 PM
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zinatf zinatf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Anybody just as disgusted as Shakib and I am? I know Atimar is. Does anyone agree that we have actually regressed the past year or so?
Count me in. My avatar says it all!
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  #12  
Old September 26, 2012, 08:49 PM
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ialbd ialbd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Anybody just as disgusted as Shakib and I am? I know Atimar is. Does anyone agree that we have actually regressed the past year or so?
thing is Zunaid bhai, I am not as disgusted yet since I never expected much from our team in t20.. (as RazabQ bhai pointed out in a thread, we are just not physically strong enough to master this version)... but its easy to understand why Shakib feels this way...

we cant actually say we have regressed in t20 since we NEVER actually made that forward leap in t20.

The upcoming home series with WI will actually be a HUGE test for BD. It'll be easier to answer this question after that.

Having said that, dont know what I am expecting from our team in that series. This t20 WC has certainly left the whole team's morale in tatters....
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Old September 26, 2012, 08:54 PM
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Naimul_Hd Naimul_Hd is offline
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The blame should also go to Selectors. They are picking wrong players for wrong format. Nazmul Hossain should have been picked instead of Abul. Shafiul hasn't done anything to get picked. Why did they even pick 'Forhad Reza' ? What were they thinking ? And how long will we give chances to Razzaq ? He forgot how to ball, let along his miserable fielding and batting. Why is Enamul Haque Jr still ignored after his recent performances ?

We can't expect good results if we pick wrong players regularly.
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Old September 26, 2012, 09:17 PM
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Tiger444 Tiger444 is offline
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Well you're right boss. We're just not good enough yet. Our batting is heavily reliant on Tamim and Shakib and our bowling is reliant on Shakib. We need to be good in at least 1 of the departments in order to defeat teams. Just a few good players is not enough to beat the likes of NZ and Pakistan. We should try to build a better batting lineup so that we can at least depend on our batting more. So next series I'd bring Anamul, Mominul and Shabbir. We're not going to know how they are until we try them out and it's not like Mushy, Riyad, and Ash are lighting up the world anyways. So why not try some of our younger talents? We saw that this team lost against the likes of Scotland, Holland, TnT, Ireland, Zimbabwe and a weakened SA team. S it's time to bring in new blood and give them a run.
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Old September 26, 2012, 09:22 PM
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Losing [or even tight win] to Associates are not fluke. This WC result is expected though no one wished.
It is really upto the players I think. They are good enough to beat good teams but lags some "X factor" that Shakib pointed out rightly.

So next time you see a tight win against Associates you know what to expect next ....
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Old September 26, 2012, 09:39 PM
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Jadukor Jadukor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Anybody just as disgusted as Shakib and I am? I know Atimar is. Does anyone agree that we have actually regressed the past year or so?
We were never good in T-20. Perhaps with the asia cup success we thought we would be better at it but it was not to be. I still have hope we can get things together at least in home condtions. I would like to see us back in the 50 overs format before i agree with this assessment.
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Old September 26, 2012, 09:47 PM
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সাকিব: বললাম তো, যেভাবে হেরেছি এটা আমার পছন্দ হয় নাই। আমরা ১৭৫ করেছি, আমাদের তো টগবগ করার কথা। আমরা কমপক্ষে ১৫টা রান ফিল্ডিংয়ে সেভ করতে পারতাম। সাধারণ কিছু জিনিস থাকে। যেদিকে মাঠটা বড়, সেখানে ১০ গজ ভেতরে দাঁড়াতে হবে...এটা তো প্রতি বলে আমি বা ক্যাপ্টেন বলে দিতে পারব না। এটা তো কমন সেন্স। এই জিনিসগুলো খুব বিরক্ত করে। তার পর ধরেন, দেখছি একটা বল চার হয়ে যাচ্ছে, অথচ ফিল্ডার ডাইভ দিচ্ছে না। হয়তো ডাইভ দিয়েও বল পেত না, কিন্তু একজন ডাইভ দিলে আরেকজন ভাবে, ও পুরোটা দিচ্ছে, উৎসাহটা বাড়ে। যখন একজন দেখবে অন্য কেউ পুরোটা দিচ্ছে না, তাঁর পাশ দিয়ে বল যাওয়ার সময়ও সে পাশে পাশে দৌড়াবে, ডাইভ দেবে না। সবার কাছ থেকে এই জিনিসগুলো আমি চাই। যখন ক্যাপ্টেন ছিলাম, তখনো চেয়েছি। এখন ক্যাপ্টেন নাই, এখনো চাই। আমার মনে হয়, যত দিন খেলব, তত দিনই চাইব। আমরা সবকিছু ঠিক করে যদি হারতাম, আমার কষ্ট কম হতো। তখন ভাবতাম, কাগজে-কলমে ওরা আমাদের চেয়ে বেটার টিম, বেটার খেলেছে, আমরা হেরেছি। তাতে হয়তো খারাপ লাগাটা দশে দুই হতো, এখন ছয় হয়ে যাচ্ছে।


Now This is a deal breaker
I had no idea that this is how some of our players are. I am really shocked, heart broken. I know that we are not good enough,I know we suck, but alwways thought that our players are trying their best, always thought that they are playing for the pride of Bangladesh. never the thought came into my mind that the players were not giving 100% in the field. Why did I waste so much time of my life following these pathetic team?
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  #18  
Old September 26, 2012, 09:50 PM
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NoName NoName is offline
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Wish these were in English.
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  #19  
Old September 26, 2012, 09:54 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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I think Shakib's interview needs its own thread and discussion.

Go here: http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...22#post1589522
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  #20  
Old September 26, 2012, 10:23 PM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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This is why we need Shakib as captain for long time and let kick those sissy a$$ on and off the field, if we ever to be more competitive.
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  #21  
Old September 26, 2012, 10:38 PM
Dilscoop Dilscoop is offline
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Scenario I:

Pretend Z is Indian/Pakistani. Replace "We's" with "You's"...
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  #22  
Old September 26, 2012, 10:52 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilscoop
Scenario I:

Pretend Z is Indian/Pakistani. Replace "We's" with "You's"...
That'll get al Furqaan all riled up.
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  #23  
Old September 26, 2012, 11:05 PM
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Navo Navo is offline
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^^ Nicely put Dilscoop!

Btw, I agree with Jadukor bhai. We were never good in T20s to begin with and our flops against Associate, Affiliate, Practice, Para teams was enough to convince me that we wouldn't see much more than the usual pyrotechnics by one or two players.
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  #24  
Old September 26, 2012, 11:16 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
^^ Nicely put Dilscoop!

Btw, I agree with Jadukor bhai. We were never good in T20s to begin with and our flops against Associate, Affiliate, Practice, Para teams was enough to convince me that we wouldn't see much more than the usual pyrotechnics by one or two players.
Not being good in T20 is the same as saying not good in ODIs and Tests. T20 shrinks the skills you need to know into a shortened but intense period - if you cannot master this, you cannot master the longer form. I think T20s are a better test for Tests than ODIs. I expect ODIs to die and only Tests and T20s to survive.
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  #25  
Old September 26, 2012, 11:25 PM
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Jadukor Jadukor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Not being good in T20 is the same as saying not good in ODIs and Tests. T20 shrinks the skills you need to know into a shortened but intense period - if you cannot master this, you cannot master the longer form. I think T20s are a better test for Tests than ODIs. I expect ODIs to die and only Tests and T20s to survive.
I disagree Z bhai. Truly great players can play well in all formats like Tendulkar, Hussey, Kallis etc but look at the likes of Imran Nazir or Raina or Afridi who become champions in T-20 but cannot succeed in Test cricket. T-20 amplifies the need for certain skills like speed and brute force whereas finesse, concentration takes a back seat.

Our players are not power hitters of the ball like Pakistan or India. We are more like the Sri Lankans who rely on skill and timing rather than brute force. Also, we do not have the mental toughness to survive under pressure for long sessions. This is why our best format has been the 50 overs game which asks for mid range concentration levels and a mid range shot making ability.
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