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  #1  
Old November 11, 2012, 09:43 AM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Default Test Progress Monitor (Nov 2012)

Test cricket after a year...7 matches scheduled over the next (WI, SL, ZIM, NZ). We need a thread to dissect exactly how we are doing. This thread can become a continuing epic to track our progress (or lack thereof).

But how to measure and against what standard?

1) Our first 3 years of Test cricket, up to 31 Dec 2003, we played 26 Tests with a batting average of 19.24 (2.77 runs/over). Bowling average 52.92 (3.51 r/o).

2) Since 1 Jan 2010, our batting avg (28.58, 3.31 r/o) and bowling (52.27, 3.60 r/o)

3) The next weakest side, NZ, since 1 Jan 2010 have a batting avg of (29.51, 3.09 r/o) and a bowling avg (38.65, 3.2 r/o)

4) The legendary AUS team from 1 Jan 2000 to that 5-0 Ashes sweep of 2007 had a bat avg (43.75, 3.74 r/o) and bowling (27.39, 3.08 r/o).

Our performance can be simply given as the ratio of our batting and bowling averages.

The Aussies had an awesome ratio of 1.60, the NZ side of late a ratio of 0.76, and our average in our early ears of 0.36. Our recent average is 0.55.

Lets see what we manage vs West Indies in the next two weeks.
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  #2  
Old November 11, 2012, 09:53 AM
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Not much difference between us and NZ batting wise since Jan 2012, but that bowling is a big headche for us!!!! Didn't improved a single bit in bowling since we started playing Test cricket
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  #3  
Old November 11, 2012, 10:03 AM
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^ I'm hoping Sunny and Gazi can provide some much needed support to Shakib finally. That will def help to bring that bowling average down. As for our phast bowlers just keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best.
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  #4  
Old November 11, 2012, 10:33 AM
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We progress in bowling in the department of spin but in pace we improve nothing. One the other hand we can't progress significantly. I think our spin is okay. But we have to improve a lot in all other departments ardently.
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  #5  
Old November 12, 2012, 12:39 AM
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It's really unacceptable that we still do not have the ability to take 20 wickets in a match. Still averaging 52 with the ball is disappointing.
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  #6  
Old November 12, 2012, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isnaad
It's really unacceptable that we still do not have the ability to take 20 wickets in a match. Still averaging 52 with the ball is disappointing.
That's the basic thing many organizers, selectors and obviously fans simply don't get about the long game. That's why they still obsess over containment bowling and subsequently the bowler's "economy" in tests and what passes for "FC" in Bangladesh. Naturally we have spawned an ignorant cricket culture saturated with the limited over mindset where unforced batting errors with regard to both technique and temperament gets you wickets and nobody cares about the predatory quality of the bowling. Those capable of swing and drift and therefore somewhat neutralizing the dead pitch with movement in the air, are rarely used because they will go for runs every now and then. The concept of buying a wicket is as alien as the idea that grass on the pitch has nothing to do with swing bowling.

These experts and matobbors don't get that test cricket is a bowlers game because unlike the shorter versions, there is no fielding restriction skewing the game in the batter's favor. They don't get the fact the team that gets 20 wickets wins the match, a freakish tie notwithstanding. Add crappy pitches that offer nothing to our bowlers and there you have it.

Asaad's numbers show that some of our batters have improved over the years, due to natural progression and other reasons, but the bowling remains utterly toothless.
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Last edited by Sohel; November 12, 2012 at 01:56 AM..
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  #7  
Old November 12, 2012, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel
That's the basic thing many organizers, selectors and obviously fans simply don't get about the long game. That's why they still obsess over containment bowling and subsequently the bowler's "economy" in tests and what passes for "FC" in Bangladesh. Naturally we have spawned an ignorant cricket culture saturated with the limited over mindset where unforced batting errors with regard to both technique and temperament gets you wickets and nobody cares about the predatory quality of the bowling. Those capable of swing and drift and therefore somewhat neutralizing the dead pitch with movement in the air, are rarely used because they will go for runs every now and then. The concept of buying a wicket is as alien as the idea that grass on the pitch has nothing to do with swing bowling.

These experts and matobbors don't get that test cricket is a bowlers game because unlike the shorter versions, there is no fielding restriction skewing the game in the batter's favor. They don't get the fact the team that gets 20 wickets wins the match, a freakish tie notwithstanding. Add crappy pitches that offer nothing to our bowlers and there you have it.
I don't think it will ever happen and I feel terrible that I keep on following this team which will be like this forever
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  #8  
Old November 12, 2012, 02:52 PM
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Not to disrespect this thread but isn't the only indicator that should matter now be the result?

12 years in, I personally no longer care for centuries, 5 wicket hauls etc. Its great for that individual and I'll sure enjoy it but in the context of us a test nation, they really are meaningless. Barring record breaking stats (as a Bangladesh player or format in general) we should not overhype the individual accomplishments.

The only important stats to monitor should be a Win or a Draw, ability to take 20 wickets, being in a comfortable situation to declare , batting out to force a draw or something to that effect.
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  #9  
Old November 12, 2012, 09:27 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynman
Not to disrespect this thread but isn't the only indicator that should matter now be the result?

12 years in, I personally no longer care for centuries, 5 wicket hauls etc. Its great for that individual and I'll sure enjoy it but in the context of us a test nation, they really are meaningless. Barring record breaking stats (as a Bangladesh player or format in general) we should not overhype the individual accomplishments.

The only important stats to monitor should be a Win or a Draw, ability to take 20 wickets, being in a comfortable situation to declare , batting out to force a draw or something to that effect.
While I wouldn't be shocked if Bangladesh won a Test in this series, it would still be an understatement to say that WI are favored. They're quite heavily favored. Draws these days are rarer due to the aggressive nature of batting. How often do teams actually bat out 450 overs without some weather involvement or on a pitch that isn't a sheet of paper?

There's nothing wrong with wanting to win or being aggressive or not tolerating anything less than the best. But to expect a team with as dismal a record as ours to magically start winning Tests means is actually not helpful.

I'm not so stupid as to not realize that the object of playing the game is to win. But being all gung-ho about it is no more intelligent than GW Bush's "bring it on" comments. There really isn't much to say if someone refuses to understand that multiple incremental improvements = one big improvement. And to be really frank, its also annoying.
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  #10  
Old November 12, 2012, 09:43 PM
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BANFAN BANFAN is offline
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I think what Raynman is saying is instead of counting individual performances, we should be monitoring team performance indicators. Such as:

1. Wins
2. Draws
3. Overs Batted as a team
4. Wickets taken as a team in test match
5. Avg Runs scored per match/Per innings
6. First innings leads/avg scores
7. First innings Wickets taken/Runs conceded.
8. 2nd innings avg scores and Runs conceded
9. Winning Margins.
10. Losing margins
11. Records Brocken .. Partnerships and HS etc
12. Declared innings
13. Match taken to the last session etc

Etc etc should be the focus instead of counting individual performances ... As those are too macro to understand any real progress of the team in test cricket. Instead of the team, we start actually do more focus on players. I do agree with him, if this is the idea...infant we got into this bad habit during JS...he used to bring out these stats to justify progress...we had a lot of debates on it as well,

But particularly in this thread, team achievement should be the only indicators, rather than individual records...that won't indicate the real progress in test cricket as the thread heading says...

Your OP is ok, but may be we can widen it a little more relating to Match outcomes to understand the true, progress.
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  #11  
Old November 12, 2012, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
While I wouldn't be shocked if Bangladesh won a Test in this series, it would still be an understatement to say that WI are favored. They're quite heavily favored. Draws these days are rarer due to the aggressive nature of batting. How often do teams actually bat out 450 overs without some weather involvement or on a pitch that isn't a sheet of paper?....
Just a thought Australia was heavy, I mean, mega ultra heavy favorite with Ponting and Co.

They play as a team we win.
Back!!
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  #12  
Old November 12, 2012, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
I think what Raynman is saying is instead of counting individual performances, we should be monitoring team performance indicators. Such as:
It appears as though not everyone is on the same intellectual plane as me

I'll try once again. Why not just look at the ICC rankings table then to look for improvement?

Why not dissect our rating points? 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0.

Do you see the futility?

Instead focus on tangible and incremental things that lead to those zeros becoming 5s and the 5s becoming 20s and so on and so forth.

If you don't even know what to look for, how do you expect to find it?
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  #13  
Old November 12, 2012, 10:47 PM
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BanFan is spot on in his interpretation of my post.

Glorifying individual stats that are meaningless in team context will do more damage than good.
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  #14  
Old November 18, 2012, 01:30 AM
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After 1st Test:

Batting avg = 36.15
Bowling avg = 57.14
Ratio = 0.633
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  #15  
Old November 18, 2012, 02:48 AM
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Jotoi kata chira koren jogfol "ekoi chame". They will fall harder everytime. We fans have better temperament than those losers. We have been taking the pain for a decade but come back strong everytime.
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  #16  
Old November 18, 2012, 07:46 AM
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battingwise we improving.
after eleven minths we managed a 556 is brilliant.
yesterdays collapse was due to lack of experience of such situations,dont think we ever had such an easy target to beat a good side in test.
but nevertheless we.need to make sure we bat well in both innings.
and hopefully xith the inclusion of Elias we better get twenty wckts.

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  #17  
Old November 18, 2012, 08:21 AM
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Improvement after 1st test ??
Well, we have prolonged the defeat.
Instead of losing within 3 days, we have manage to lose on the final session of final day.

Unless we win, we haven't progressed. But from the performance of the last test, if we can hold on to this, win will not be too far away.
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  #18  
Old November 18, 2012, 08:30 AM
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We are definitely improving. Compairing last series against Pakistan, this is far better performance. I must say, having dull wicket trick worked out well for us and managed to put us in situation where we were ahead of the oposition before 4th innings. No matter what, from here I dont like to see any innings defeat in comming times.
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  #19  
Old November 18, 2012, 09:20 AM
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1-0-0-1. Enough said.
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  #20  
Old November 18, 2012, 10:50 AM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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Good thread Al Furkan vai. So bowling is a big issue no doubt. But another thing is to mitigate the weakness of batting normaly we play with 8 batsman and 4 bowlers. I think we need to be more aggressive. We can play with 5 bowlers like W I.
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  #21  
Old November 18, 2012, 10:58 AM
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There is no progress. After all this, all these talks about taking the game to 5th day on our home turf shows the negative mindset and not believing our own ability. As long as there is no believe, we won't achieve.
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  #22  
Old November 18, 2012, 12:16 PM
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Scored the most runs in a match 723, breaking our previous record of 704. Also lasted the 3rd highest number of overs in an innings.
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  #23  
Old November 25, 2012, 02:44 AM
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after the 2 Test series:

Batting average = 34.93
Bowling average = 64.26
ratio = 0.544

We we marginally less competitive this series than we have been since 2010 and somewhat better than when we first started playing Tests.
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  #24  
Old November 25, 2012, 03:00 AM
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Need to push the batting averahe to 40s and pull the bowling average down to late 40s or 50s
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  #25  
Old November 25, 2012, 03:22 AM
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What I Care is....

A. we lost series 2-0
B. Took both test matches to 5th day
C. Margin of defeat: 77 Runs and 10 Wkts

Improvement from last series??
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