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  #3626  
Old November 14, 2012, 03:59 PM
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AsifTheManRahman AsifTheManRahman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilscoop
You cant criticize his game every time he comes short. He's not gonna score 100 every time he comes out to bat.
Even once in a while wouldn't be so bad, but he has a serious conversion problem.

When you have five days to bat, you have no business getting out trying to play extravagant shots.
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  #3627  
Old November 14, 2012, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SS
And BD still lose the game within three days
Actually, when the commentators where talking about the position of the game it was like the forgot that Bangladesh has batting talent quite deep. I mean, first you have to get rid of Naeem who looks like he wants to make the crease a second home and secondly you have Mr. Hasan to try get out which is easier said than done when Mr. Hasan averaged 50 last year in tests. Then, you have Mushfiqur Rahim who despite glaring statistical weaknesses is someone who (I hope) will put a price on his wicket. Followed by him you have Mr. Riyad who indeed has talent batting and will hopefully be able to come good. Bring up Nasir as number 8 and we're looking at a seriously talented batting side here, all they need to do is apply themselves more. I've noticed that commentators and critics no longer talk about Bangladesh's inability to play test cricket, it's just the adjustment needed to such a different form of the game. Bangladesh's batsmen ooze talent in my opinion, they have natural flair seen in few countries, and hopefully in a few years we'll see some of our players reaching the world of top rankings in all three fields and on the way take Bangladesh to another level.
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  #3628  
Old November 14, 2012, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
Even once in a while wouldn't be so bad, but he has a serious conversion problem.

When you have five days to bat, you have no business getting out trying to play extravagant shots.
In Tests and ODI's combined he's got 7 centuries and 33 half centuries. His last century was 49 matches ago when he notched up his century against England in 2010. That includes 5 Tests and 44 ODI's. In that span of time, he scored 13 half centuries, 3 in Tests, 10 in ODI's.

So it's very obvious that Tamim can score half centuries at ease but has a very hard time converting those in to 100's. Obviously as a Bangladeshi top order batsman, those stats are very good considering how our other top order batsmen struggle to even notch up 50's but I'll state this again that, according to Tamim's standards, he's not doing as well as he should. Sometimes yes it can happen where you lose your wicket between 50-100 runs but this happening so many times? It shows it's a clear concentration issue and he really needs work on this part of his game. If he can start having a better conversion rate, he will not only help his average get higher, but also help his team in the process.
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  #3629  
Old November 14, 2012, 05:45 PM
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Very disappointed with Tamim, not because of the way he was batting but because of the way he got out. He was in great rhythm, dispatching bad balls all over the field. But the shot he got out to was a manufactured shot not suitable in Test cricket.
Also all the people saying he shouldn't be blamed because he scored 72, what are you on about. This is one of the flattest pitches with nothing for the bowlers, once you get set you have got to score a big century or as Graham Gooch calls them "Daddy Hundreds". There are times when you will get out for under 15 runs due to good bowling, green pitch, bad form, being unlucky etc so when you get an opportunity and make a start (and 72 on this pitch can only be called a start) then you are set and have to score big to make up for those other times. With the way Tamim was timing the ball, with a bit of luck and good shot selection I really think he could have scored a double century.
Hopefully Shakib, Naeem and the other batsmen don't make the same mistake and instead use this opportunity to score big because this pitch still has nothing for the bowlers.
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  #3630  
Old November 14, 2012, 06:34 PM
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i strongly believe tamim will come good when it comes to scoring tons, he's started doing it in the recent NCL matches and i think with time he will translate it to the international level. i also believe he could have scored a double ton this innings, he was basically 3/4 of the way to the first ton mark, he was playing well, his eye was in, he was in control. expecting naeem and shakib to score big here.
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  #3631  
Old November 14, 2012, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
Even once in a while wouldn't be so bad, but he has a serious conversion problem.

When you have five days to bat, you have no business getting out trying to play extravagant shots.
Well fortunately Tamim has at least a short-term memory...I predict his 2nd innings to be far more sedate and he'll probably get that ton because I don't think the pitch will deteriorate much beyond its current state.

He did get bogged down by Naeem, as Sohel bhai will agree. But I think a large part of the blame goes to how few Tests we play and the fact that Naeem is relative Test newbie. Tamim should have anticipated Naeem to just block everything and hold an end up just like he would anticipate an Ashrafart if Matin had somehow gotten selected. But he probably forgot.

But I will agree Tamim is having a conversion problem which he wasn't having in 2010 when he cracked 4 tons in 6 months. But, I am hoping as we play more cricket this season, he'll get back into the flow (only 4 ODIs so far in 2012). We need to play more and BCB needs to arrange more ODIs, more Tests, more 4-dayers against NZ, WI, ZIM, IRE, even AFG - whoever is willing to play us.
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  #3632  
Old November 14, 2012, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
i strongly believe tamim will come good when it comes to scoring tons, he's started doing it in the recent NCL matches and i think with time he will translate it to the international level. i also believe he could have scored a double ton this innings, he was basically 3/4 of the way to the first ton mark, he was playing well, his eye was in, he was in control. expecting naeem and shakib to score big here.
I think going back to Jamie will work well for him. He was definitely missing him . Let's hope playing those first class matches in NZ will help him build up his temperament to play longer innings and convert those 50s to 100s. If he does well there then we can expect him to get a county contract next season. I really want our players to play the county than IPL.
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  #3633  
Old November 14, 2012, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oronnya
I think going back to Jamie will work well for him. He was definitely missing him . Let's hope playing those first class matches in NZ will help him build up his temperament to play longer innings and convert those 50s to 100s. If he does well there then we can expect him to get a county contract next season. I really want our players to play the county than IPL.
He's playing 10 T20 matches and just 1 FC match. So not much longer version practice.
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  #3634  
Old November 14, 2012, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger444
He's playing 10 T20 matches and just 1 FC match. So not much longer version practice.
1 FC match only . Oh well he is getting to spend some time with Jamie which is good enough for now. I still think Jamie is a very good batting coach and he made huge impact on few of our batsmen. Let's hope he will be able to help Tamim to overcome his problem of conversion.
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  #3635  
Old November 14, 2012, 07:28 PM
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AsifTheManRahman AsifTheManRahman is offline
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Kicchu hobe na, kicchu hobe na ei Tamim Iqbal ke diye, shob shesh, amader shob shesh, Gana te giye danguli khela uchit amader.

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  #3636  
Old November 14, 2012, 07:38 PM
Dilscoop Dilscoop is offline
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Good gawd Asif!! I hate this act you put on man every time we're down (which is always)!! "Get it together" Cmon!
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  #3637  
Old November 14, 2012, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilscoop
You cant criticize his game every time he comes short. He's not gonna score 100 every time he comes out to bat.
I don't think anyone wants to see Tamim batting defensively or change his style of playing. But people want him to control that agression. If he can control that a little more, he will win a lot more battles against bowlers. Tamim is our best Batsman, I don't think it's too much of us to expect him to bat a bit more responsibly.

I watched his press conference in the news today. And all he kept on saying was, this is how I play, some days it will work some days it won't. We have been hearing this for a while now. I don't think that's the best way for our best batsman to approach his game. For example let's say we are chasing 300 in the 4th innings to win the game. Do we really want Tamim to just go out there and pick up few boundaries and get out. Or we are batting on the 5th day of a test chasing 500, so we are pretty much playing for a draw. Do we really want Tamim to stick to his usual style and just score a quick fire 50 and get out? If this is how he is going to play regardless of the situation of the game, than how is that going to help our team. While Tamim 's 72 run innings was great to watch, but if we end up losing on day 5 by an innings this innings will have zero effect on the result except for the fact that it would reduce the number of runs we lost by. I'm just randomly throwing an example out there. I'm not saying us losing would be Tamim's fault, but if he applies himself a bit more in situations like this, he could be the difference between us saving the game and losing.
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  #3638  
Old November 14, 2012, 08:00 PM
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Ajfar's post idyaning has as much weight as Sohel with free coupons on Baton Rouge, Pink City, Gulshan, Dhaka, Bangladesh.
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  #3639  
Old November 14, 2012, 08:35 PM
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He can stick to his natural game and still be an important player for the team. But if he wants to be a great player, he needs to play according to the situation and need of the team...it's upto him to decide that ... He knows what he can do. If he remains stubborn on "It's my game, this is how I will play" then the team has to learn to set the batting order accordingly accepting him in that role... Just
Ike India does with Shehwag....always be ready to lose him early, if not take it as bonus...

But if he can be a bit flexible and tries to adjust his pace with test match and be more responsible for the team, it can make him a great player...he should understand, even Shehwag or Gayle isn't as aggressive as him in test matches, specially the way he played today was little too much ..... It wasn't flawless either, he was making mistakes and got chances even before getting finally out...
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  #3640  
Old November 14, 2012, 08:42 PM
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apnara shobai mile or pichone keno legechen ojatha...
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  #3641  
Old November 14, 2012, 08:47 PM
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Good batting, by definition, is all about playing each ball according to its merit and executing high percentage shots according to the match situation. Leaving the ball, blocking it, nudging it between the gaps and rotating the strike, driving it along the ground, lofting it high over the fielder's head, and pulling or hooking the ball are all good as long as they're the correct, high percentage response to a particular delivery.

Naturally good temperament is necessary to bat well, no matter what you're doing with the ball as a batsman. Without good temperament against any international bowling attack including our own, success becomes streaky and ultimately unsustainable.

Premeditation is the enemy of good batting as defined. A premeditated block can be just as detrimental as a premeditated, low percentage slog sweep to a team's chances of competing in an international match. Whereas the aforesaid slog sweep will get us out, blocking full tosses and half volleys when runs, especially easy singles are available, will bog us down, generate intense pressure brought upon by the subsequent rhythm and momentum from the attacking opposition, and inevitably result in wickets with inadequate runs on the board. You need the right temperament to successfully survive a contest of attrition and playing each ball according to its merit, not pitifully trying to execute a premeditated script, is what exemplifies that right temperament.

Tamim's dismissal proves the point. Not including a couple of streaky boundaries, he was scoring fluently with high percentage boundaries and over boundaries off of pretty ordinary bowling, and despite his smoking-related stamina issues, was in good touch. The streakier Mofees helped him along from the other end before his inevitable dismissal. Then Nayeem came in at number 4 and took his momentum away by trying to block everything including full tosses and half volleys that could be hit for runs without much, if any risk. That took Tamim's momentum away and after Nayeem sent him back a couple of times when he was trying to rotate the strike, just one of them was a good call from Nayeem, Tamim felt the itch and played a premeditated shot to scratch it. He got out.

Tamim, as an international batsman and our greatest batsman to date, should and must do better. He should've shown better temperament and leadership as the senior partner, and talked to Nayeem in order to work things out. He didn't and a solvable issue became a problem. He failed convert an easy test 50 to an easy test 100 for the 7th time and left us in a precarious position. Nobody regrets that more than Tamim himself.

Having said that, he did put runs on the board as will Shakib and Nasir InshAllah. I hope Nayeem and Riyad do too. As for those who feel you don't need to rotate the strike in tests and simply allow pressure and momentum to accumulate in favor of the opposition, or a 200 ball 50 is somehow better than a 70 ball 70 when the opposition easily put up 500+, we have two completely different understandings of the game, of life, of the universe, and pretty much everything else.
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Last edited by Sohel; November 14, 2012 at 09:49 PM..
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  #3642  
Old November 14, 2012, 10:00 PM
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^very well said. From what I've seen from Tamim in his career, I really don't see him talking to his batting partners. I know he wants to follow his own game plan but as you say, as the senior batsman in this team, he needs to make sure he and whoever his batting partner is on the same page. In any team sport, good communication is essential for doing well.
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  #3643  
Old November 14, 2012, 10:43 PM
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In my opinion there are certain characteristics that sets Test cricket apart from limited overs cricket

i) In Test cricket there are large gaps available for boundaries with many man placed in catching positions. It is because the bowlers want the batsman to go for those drives so that they can buy themselves a wicket. In limited overs cricket there is always a pressure to score runs even off good balls... that isn't the case in test cricket and that's why as Chanderpaul showed it's extremely difficult to get good batsman out if they are willing to stay at the crease and rotate the strike.

ii) In Test cricket batting for time is as important as runs when a team is fighting for a draw. Good batsman like Amla, Hussey, Pietersen etc do have all the shots Tamim possess but instead of putting all these shots on display for one or two hours they choose to play safe and do it for 2 or 3 sessions

iii) In Test cricket the match is won by winning sessions and not by an hour or two of hitting boundaries. In the end we gave away 3 wickets in one session.

Now i have no problem with the way Tamim played in the first half of his innings. He simply was good enough to put away the bad balls. My problem is the way he started playing when the WI bowlers settled into good line and length. He played a similar shot to Sammy moments before he got out which luckily fell short of the mid off fielder so his eventual dismissal was definitely not out of the blue rash shot. Those who watched, we all saw it coming. He is a brilliant batsman with a wide range of shots who can simply wait for the bad deliveries to be put away. At the same time he must also accept the fact that if the bowling is good he needs to shift into a lower gear and look to survive. As a professional I can't submit a rubbish report and say that's the way i write. I might have my unique style of writing but that doesn't excuse me of not following the required standard of reporting. A 72 is surely valuable considering the batting lineup but Tamim is capable of much greater heights.
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  #3644  
Old November 15, 2012, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger444
^very well said. From what I've seen from Tamim in his career, I really don't see him talking to his batting partners. I know he wants to follow his own game plan but as you say, as the senior batsman in this team, he needs to make sure he and whoever his batting partner is on the same page. In any team sport, good communication is essential for doing well.
Naeem is older than tamim .

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  #3645  
Old November 15, 2012, 01:00 AM
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^"Senior" doesn't always means boyoshe bor'ho

Tamim's significantly greater experience in international cricket makes him senior in this case.
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  #3646  
Old November 15, 2012, 01:02 AM
Dilscoop Dilscoop is offline
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He should be out there right now, sitting on 130*+ score. What.a.waste.

Hopefully rest of the batsmen to follow will make him suffer and have him sit out for a long, long time before he can bat again in this flat delicious deck.
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  #3647  
Old November 16, 2012, 06:32 AM
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Tomorrow could be the day for Tamim. He'll have a target to chase which I think will do him good. If he gets going then Bangladesh will go 1-0 in the series.
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  #3648  
Old November 16, 2012, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimAus
Tomorrow could be the day for Tamim. He'll have a target to chase which I think will do him good. If he gets going then Bangladesh will go 1-0 in the series.
True. Tamim will be the key to chase, whether we make them all out or they throw a target.
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  #3649  
Old November 16, 2012, 08:00 AM
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I have a feeling that both Tamim and SN will play either slowly or will be out quickly before making much dent in the scoreboard.
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  #3650  
Old November 16, 2012, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
I have a feeling that both Tamim and SN will play either slowly or will be out quickly before making much dent in the scoreboard.
agree...Tamim will be super aggresive to chase 300+ runs if WI give that to us the problem is how many overs they will give us to chase or if we can get the last 4 wickets by morning sessions or maximum till lunch...it will be very difficult to chase big score like that for win...and I have a feeling all the BD players are mentaly charged up now and going for the win and Tamim is the first one who will do it starting first ball of the BD innings.
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