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  #1  
Old November 9, 2012, 06:23 PM
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Default SL picks teenager without FC or List A experience!!

http://www.espncricinfo.com/sri-lank...ry/590453.html

SL have included a 19 yo spinner who hasn't even played a FC or List A match in their Test side. Is this a sign of the thinness of talent in SL beyond the older generation? He's just a U-19 player, and one who was well handled by the likes of Anamul and Asif who scored 101 and 84 respectively in that match.

So if a teenage bowler who was dominated by Anamul and Asif is ready to debut for a G8 Test side, then why do some of us think that 19 year olds who can one-up such bowlers aren't ready to suit up for a 9-10th ranked Test side?
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  #2  
Old November 9, 2012, 06:47 PM
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SL have a solid foundation with the likes of Mahela, Dilshan, Sanga, Matthews, Herath, Malinga, Mendis & Kulasekara. So they can afford to gamble with a 19yo spinner who hasnt played FC yet.
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  #3  
Old November 9, 2012, 06:50 PM
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BTW he has good stats from the U19 World Cup to back his inclusion in the Sri Lankan national team.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/srilanka...er/465797.html
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  #4  
Old November 9, 2012, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bengalipagol
btw he has good stats from the u19 world cup to back his inclusion in the sri lankan national team.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/srilanka...er/465797.html
plate league!!!!!! and we have the highest run scorer!

I think that after the greats retire (sanga, jaya) SL will be a team we should look to supplant like the current NZ and WI teams.
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Old November 9, 2012, 10:06 PM
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^ SL isn't all about Sanga and Jaya. Sure if you take these 2 out they might struggle to some extent against strong teams but even than they are still miles ahead of us. Malinga still has some good years left in him, Mathews is one of the top all rounder in the shorter version, Chandimal is already starting to establish himself in the team, Perera is a handy batsman down the order, they have a world class spinner in the making in Randiv. I don't see SL becoming a weaker team when Sanga and Jaya retire. Sure they might not have the same calibre player to replace these guys but they sure do have more than enough talented players to carry the team forward.

You are making it sound as if we already surpassed the current NZ team and WI. Sure we can beat them but the real question is how often?
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Old November 9, 2012, 10:15 PM
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Because we've been doing that for ages. Now it's their turn. Aus, SL, NZ all turning to their young kids.

Also I think it's just a bluff to keep the Kiwis busy. I dont think they will actually start him.
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Old November 10, 2012, 04:04 AM
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Not only him. A. Jayadanga(spell) yet to make debut in domestic comps. So they picked two players without any domestic experience

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  #8  
Old November 10, 2012, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajfar
^ SL isn't all about Sanga and Jaya. Sure if you take these 2 out they might struggle to some extent against strong teams but even than they are still miles ahead of us. Malinga still has some good years left in him, Mathews is one of the top all rounder in the shorter version, Chandimal is already starting to establish himself in the team, Perera is a handy batsman down the order, they have a world class spinner in the making in Randiv. I don't see SL becoming a weaker team when Sanga and Jaya retire. Sure they might not have the same calibre player to replace these guys but they sure do have more than enough talented players to carry the team forward.

You are making it sound as if we already surpassed the current NZ team and WI. Sure we can beat them but the real question is how often?
Sri Lanka are an over-achieving team. Kinda like NZ, they punch above their weight. They don't have any extraordinary talent (Murali, Malinga are exceptions) and they rely more than anyone on the unorthodox. Even with Sanga and Jaya they've hardly ever won overseas Tests. They will be tough in their own fortress, but once those guys retire, if we can't leapfrog the likes of NZ and SL - the two least talented sides among the top eight, then we should just stick to rice and fish eating as our national sport. In stark contrast there WI are a team that have real talent and just aren't producing the goods consistently. Gayle, Roach, Samuels, Bravo all have serious talent. I'd rate that above the likes of Matthews, Chandimal, et al.
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  #9  
Old November 10, 2012, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Sri Lanka are an over-achieving team. Kinda like NZ, they punch above their weight.
Yes an over achieving team that managed to reached the ODI WC final not once but twice in the last 5 years. Something that a star full of team like SA has yet to achieve in their cricket history. So how does that make it that they punch above their weight? Maybe they are just that kind of a team that knows when to peak. No one handed them the right to play in the finals, they earned it. You can't put a limit on how much a team can achieve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
They don't have any extraordinary talent (Murali, Malinga are exceptions) and they rely more than anyone on the unorthodox.
How far has SA gotten in any WC with a team full of extraordinary talents? After countless lessons we received from our Ashraful, Alok and Aftab, I'm sure I don't have to point out to you talent alone doesn't get you anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Even with Sanga and Jaya they've hardly ever won overseas Tests. They will be tough in their own fortress, but once those guys retire, if we can't leapfrog the likes of NZ and SL - the two least talented sides among the top eight, then we should just stick to rice and fish eating as our national sport.
No they haven't. They are much weaker team compared to the some of the other test nations. And I wasn't claiming that they were. But I don't how that helps us to leap frog them. The reason they struggle to win over seas Test match is because they are up against some top quality Test players and tough conditions. But I can't see them struggling when they face our players in our condition, at least not right now.

I don't think SL and NZ becoming weaker teams gives us a one way ticket to becoming number 7/8 team. We will only move up the ladder when our team becomes stronger and not other teams become weaker. Off coure other teams becoming more weaker makes it more easier for us to beat them, but we have to have the right set of players to get the job done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Gayle, Roach, Samuels, Bravo all have serious talent. I'd rate that above the likes of Matthews, Chandimal, et al.
No one will argue with you on the fact that WI players you listed are much more talented, but that doesn't necessarily make SL any less of a team. Talent alone can't get you far. IMO SL Players are some of the most hardest working players in cricket. Sure they might not be as talented as some of the other teams are, but they always go out their with the right attitude, and give it their best. Things that our players don't do/show enough of. I don't think SL and NZ becoming weaker makes it easy for us to take over them, because in reality had we been working hard and doing the right things more often we already could have taken them over. So the way I see it, we should have been working hard to leap frog these teams all along, not weight for them to become weaker.

I'm sure a lot of people thought SL would become weaker when the likes of Arvinda, Ranatunga, Jaysuriya, Atapattu and Vaas retired, but they didn't. SL will miss Sanga and Jaya when they retire big time, but does that mean their team will fall apart? I don't think so. They will have to go through a transitioning period and will struggle, but they will make it through. We are not the only team that have talented players like Asif, Anamul and Mominul. All teams have upcoming talented players, some more talented than others. But they all need to be developed more before we see the end result, and I think that is where we have the biggest disadvantage. Other teams already have a system in place, while we are still struggling to figure out that system.
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  #10  
Old November 11, 2012, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
if we can't leapfrog the likes of NZ and SL - the two least talented sides among the top eight, then we should just stick to rice and fish eating as our national sport. In stark contrast there WI are a team that have real talent and just aren't producing the goods consistently. Gayle, Roach, Samuels, Bravo all have serious talent. I'd rate that above the likes of Matthews, Chandimal, et al.
Talent is overated.
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  #11  
Old November 11, 2012, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajfar
I'm sure a lot of people thought SL would become weaker when the likes of Arvinda, Ranatunga, Jaysuriya, Atapattu and Vaas retired, but they didn't. SL will miss Sanga and Jaya when they retire big time, but does that mean their team will fall apart? I don't think so. They will have to go through a transitioning period and will struggle, but they will make it through. We are not the only team that have talented players like Asif, Anamul and Mominul. All teams have upcoming talented players, some more talented than others. But they all need to be developed more before we see the end result, and I think that is where we have the biggest disadvantage. Other teams already have a system in place, while we are still struggling to figure out that system.
Of course I'm working under the assumption that Bangladesh works hard to overtake the teams ranked immediately ahead of it. Its possible. It will probably take 100 years to reach #1 or even think of reaching #1, but we should aim to be middle of the pack by 2020 or 2025. Of course if we don't work hard (players and brass) then we'll not only fail to catch up to WI, NZ, PAK but we will fall behind ZIM, IRE, and AFG!

Talent is not without its own set of merits, Ajfar. Take India for example. You might say that the Indian media hypes its self up and that is a very valid point. However does the indian media dictate the commanding respect of Indian cricket in far away places like England and Australia? No. Sachin Tendulkar is, in my opinion the single most talented player to play this game. However he has also choked and contributed to Indian losses in big games probably 3x for every match-winning knock he's played (just estimating here). However he and India command respect because people recognize the explosive talent they possess, talent that may not even be realized 50% of the time, but it buys respect.

SL on the other hand commands much less respect than India and even Pakistan. Why? Because non-partisan fans will still be drawn to Indian batting talent and Pakistani bowling talent, to Aussie cricket, and the English style. That doesn't exist for SL.

It doesn't matter how much SA has choked in the WC...thats 5% of the time and matches, and the other 95% of the time they usually don't choke. Smith, Amla, Kallis, Steyn, Morkel, Philander, Devilliers form arguably the best team in world cricket across formats. Make up any hypothetical WC knock-out match between that team and SL, I gurantee 90% of people will favor SA to win regardless of conditions or venue.

Sri Lanka almost assuredly does NOT have the young talent we have in guys like Asif, Anamul, Mominul, Soumya, and Taskin. If they did, they wouldn't be owned by us at the U-19 level. However our boys don't develop, whereass SL youths do. So the same SL Lion cubs who got beat black and blue by our Tiger cubs at U19 level, come back in 5 years to dominate our boys. If we can fix our developmental problems...we can be a serious force.
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  #12  
Old November 11, 2012, 08:57 AM
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@al Furqaan Sri Lankan can unearth plenty of talent like Mendis, Akila Dhananajay and this kid you mention. Its no big deal for them really. They can afford to take a risk. If the guy gets hammered and dented, they ll find another guy. Anamul and Mominul are like once in a generation players for us. So lets introduce them a little slowly when they r more prepared and mature. Also introducing a spinner and batsman at a young age are two different things. You need batsmen to have a lot more maturity especially in the longer format of the game.
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Old November 11, 2012, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Of course I'm working under the assumption that Bangladesh works hard to overtake the teams ranked immediately ahead of it. Its possible. It will probably take 100 years to reach #1 or even think of reaching #1, but we should aim to be middle of the pack by 2020 or 2025. Of course if we don't work hard (players and brass) then we'll not only fail to catch up to WI, NZ, PAK but we will fall behind ZIM, IRE, and AFG!

Talent is not without its own set of merits, Ajfar. Take India for example. You might say that the Indian media hypes its self up and that is a very valid point. However does the indian media dictate the commanding respect of Indian cricket in far away places like England and Australia? No. Sachin Tendulkar is, in my opinion the single most talented player to play this game. However he has also choked and contributed to Indian losses in big games probably 3x for every match-winning knock he's played (just estimating here). However he and India command respect because people recognize the explosive talent they possess, talent that may not even be realized 50% of the time, but it buys respect.

SL on the other hand commands much less respect than India and even Pakistan. Why? Because non-partisan fans will still be drawn to Indian batting talent and Pakistani bowling talent, to Aussie cricket, and the English style. That doesn't exist for SL.

It doesn't matter how much SA has choked in the WC...thats 5% of the time and matches, and the other 95% of the time they usually don't choke. Smith, Amla, Kallis, Steyn, Morkel, Philander, Devilliers form arguably the best team in world cricket across formats. Make up any hypothetical WC knock-out match between that team and SL, I gurantee 90% of people will favor SA to win regardless of conditions or venue.

Sri Lanka almost assuredly does NOT have the young talent we have in guys like Asif, Anamul, Mominul, Soumya, and Taskin. If they did, they wouldn't be owned by us at the U-19 level. However our boys don't develop, whereass SL youths do. So the same SL Lion cubs who got beat black and blue by our Tiger cubs at U19 level, come back in 5 years to dominate our boys. If we can fix our developmental problems...we can be a serious force.
How do you know they dont have talent? Do you follow cricket here? Also dont forget not all good players come from Under 19. Anamul and Mominul are probably the two serious talent coming from our system. All others-long way to go. You will find hundreds of Taskins in India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka. Sri Lanka can unearth players from out of the blue, players much much better than ours. So lets not get carried away with our Under 19 success. THeres a lot of work to be done
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  #14  
Old November 11, 2012, 02:10 PM
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West Indies debuted Kraigg Brathwaite in Tests at the age of 18. He didn't do well, averaging 21 in 17 innings; 6 of which were ducks including 2 against Bangladesh! That's less than 1 duck every 3 innings!
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Old November 11, 2012, 02:28 PM
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Compared to some of the other U-19 World cup players, Anamul's got more first class centuries than Unmukt Chand, Chad Bowes, Daniel Bell-Drummond and Kraigg Brathwaite combined. Although obviously our league isn't as strong as theirs.

Quinton de Kock is a beast averaging 63 with 4 centuries. He'll definitely get into the SA side.
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Old November 11, 2012, 06:45 PM
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thirimanne is a good batting prospect for SL, but i'm a bit worried he won't develop and he's already had a bit of international exposure and is still struggling to make runs on a consistent basis. anyway SL are really unorthodox, think of murali's wrist flexion and malinga's bowling action, now they're starting to bring in inexperienced talented. they did it in the t20 WC and they're doing it agian now, strangley for SL it seems to work.
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  #17  
Old November 12, 2012, 02:45 AM
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Yeah Thirimanne has been a disappointment. Mathews and Chandimal will probably take over from Mahela and Jayawardene in terms of run scoring. And as you have seen both are highly capable. In fact Chandimal is Sri Lanka's answer to Virat Kohli. Talent wise Chandimal may be no comparison, but you ll see he will score plenty of runs (Like you cant compare Mahela, Sanga with the class of Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, but both Mahela and Sanga have scored plenty of runs).

And the system is rather strange here. Players bloom very late. For example: Dilshan only peaked at 31. You get guys like Welagedara, Prasad, Samaraweera who have also blossomed very late. So there is every chance someone like Kapugedara who has flopped so much will pick up at some point. In BD the trend is opposite, players peak early and after 25 they pretty much become out of contention.

We ve always been better than Sri Lanka in age group competitions. But what happens in Under 19 tournaments doesnt really matter. Its how they convert these under 19 players to international teams. And not all their top players come from Under 19 system. SL coaches, selectors have uncanny ways of unearthing 25-26 year olds from out of the blue who have limited first class experience but have the skills for international cricket. With that a World Cup and 2 World Cup Finals in recent years. Not a bad record for a country which doesnt boast the talent of India and Pakistan.
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Old November 12, 2012, 07:47 PM
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A bowler is always easy to debut, earlier than batsman... Because the bowler has the advantage of deciding where and how the ball will be in play ... A batsman need to prepare a lot to cope up with varieties of situation... If he isn't as gifted as SRT/LARA... He needs to be at certain level, before he can come and learn at this level... And if he is from BD, he needs playing experience much more. We don't have that standard of FC too... Yet we have done it with plenty of players and they are all still learning, how to survive...so no comparison with SL, IND or PAK yet...

You are using a SL bowler's example to justify a BD batsman's inclusion in the test team.
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Old November 12, 2012, 11:34 PM
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Another thing is we ve burnt our fingers before, so good that the selectors have learned. Nafis Iqbal and Mohammad Ashraful were also two massive talents, no less than Anamul and Mominul. We just put them in the deep end of the ocean when they didnt know how to swim in the sea.
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Old November 14, 2012, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeesh
How do you know they dont have talent? Do you follow cricket here? Also dont forget not all good players come from Under 19. Anamul and Mominul are probably the two serious talent coming from our system. All others-long way to go. You will find hundreds of Taskins in India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka. Sri Lanka can unearth players from out of the blue, players much much better than ours. So lets not get carried away with our Under 19 success. THeres a lot of work to be done
I'm sure there are hundreds of Taskins of India and thousands in Pakistan. But are there even 100 cricketers in Sri Lanka?

I agree SL have a habit of unearthing cricketers from nowhere and that guys like Dilly and Sanath bloomed very late whereas our youngsters are inexplicably finished by 25. But you can't deny our age group talent - which is greater than SL's. Age group strenght is a very good indicator of the innate, raw, untapped talent that exists in a country. Bangladesh and Zimbabwe are equally poor at senior level, but the gulf at U19 level as big as the gap between BD and India. What does that tell you? It means that somewhere between U-19 level and senior level there is a brick wall in Bangladesh. If SL continue to be a formidable team well into this decade, then it means they have a trampoline. If SL becomes a team like NZ or WI - that is, not anywhere near even the 4th or 5th ranked side but even more distant from the likes of top associates/ZIM - then it means that SL had the benefit of a golden few generations of playersin the 90s and 2000s to reach the WC finalses and stuff.

Lets just see if SL can sustain it.
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  #21  
Old November 15, 2012, 10:13 AM
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Your points remind me of a debate i had with a Sri Lankan friend of mine in 2007 during the WC. I told him at the rate we are producing talent we will overtake Sri lanka in no time. I told him once the likes of Sanga, Mahela, Murali, Vaas retire they wont be able to compete. He laughed off my claims, saying they might not have Bangladesh's talent, but they will always produce world class performers. In fact what he said is true. Sri Lanka replaced De Silva, Ranatunga, Jayasuriya with Sanga, Mahela, Dilshan. And now Chandimal, Mathews, and Munaweera will probably take over. They might have not found a Murali but have two very capable bowlers in Mendis and Dhananajaya. Lets not forget guys like Senanayake, Randiv, Herath all of whom will command a spot in our side.

We ve always been better than Sri Lanka in age group cricket. From Naimur Rahmans time we have been beating them. Problem is our guys dont develop from there. In contrast their players mature, develop better and become international standard. Players with less talent and skill become better performers than our guys. Chandimal for instance is by no means more talented than Anamul or Mominul. But somehow you will see he will surge ahead. How? Its not like they have significantly better first class structure than us. But i guess the coaching, the management of the players, the wickets, the school system, the education all of these make Sri Lankans better cricketers. I bet the likes of Ashraful, Kapali, Enamul would have been completely different players had they played in Sri Lanka all their lives. Not just the players, even the administrators. Just check the size of BCB, the experience of the administrators and compare with that of Sri Lanka. You will know why they develop and why we dont. Why they can attract coaches like Moody, Ford, Bayliss (Not that they pay more salaries than us).

And its not just in cricket. If you are familiar with the Bangladeshi apparel industry you will see top apparel companies love to recruit Sri Lankan management. Not because Sri Lankans have more degree or are more educated or are more experienced. They can just get the job done better than Bangladeshi managers.

I do hope Bangladesh overtake Sri Lanka one day-but theres a long long way to go. 5 years since my debate with my friend i d say we havent gone too far from then. We have a lot to learn. Question is do we have the will and intelligence to do so
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Old November 15, 2012, 04:31 PM
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Funny you mention Bangladeshi managers...I hope sincerely that our cricketers fare better than the rest of the Bangladeshi "workforce". I think if you hired a couple of low-lifes from the streets of Compton and Watts with no high school diplomas they'd do better than Bangladeshi managers.

Cricketing wise, the BCB needs to realize the problem, and I'm sure they don't because they're all corrupt politicians and come form non-cricketing backgrounds. Lack of talent is not the problem in BD...talent cultivation is. Sri Lanka have clearly done more with less.
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Old November 15, 2012, 05:57 PM
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There's a huge difference in development beyond the U-19 years. Their teenagers - crap as teenagers, shooperstars as grown-ups. Our teenagers - flash in the pan performances, then some more flashing in the pan as grown-ups, then dropped forever only to leave the country and open up a chaa er dokan in NYC.

Plus, their youngsters can display the innocence of their youth all they want under the covers of the likes of Mahela, Jaya, etc, whereas ours come in at 50/6 trying to salvage our Test status.

Not to mention Sri Lanka is the land of the real life mutants, freaks of nature who excel at the highest level, because of their freaky nature.
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Old November 23, 2012, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Lets just see if SL can sustain it.
SL appeared in four WC finals in the last 5 tournaments.
SL was in a three decade long civil war.
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Old November 25, 2012, 11:04 AM
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Its obvious once the Sri Trio leave Dil, Mah and San, then Sri Lanka will become considerably weaker its common sense.
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