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  #26  
Old December 13, 2012, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel
Mit'hu has issues sustaining his focus when keeping close to the stumps when the spinners are on. The fact that his lateral movement is poor in relation to the movement of the ball and he often finds his gloves at an odd angle, makes him spill quite a bit. One would assume that an international keeper with such a diminutive physique, and therefore very little natural range, would rely on lateral footwork compensate. Then again, one assumes wrong when it comes to many of our players.
He misses a lot of catches off pacers as well. Part of it has to do with height and you cannot teach height. Given his physical limitations, he might be close to his ceiling as a keeper. I hope we find a good replacement and let him focus on batting and leading.
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  #27  
Old December 13, 2012, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel
Dhiman, Sohan, Pavel, Liton and Shahin are all significantly better full time wicket keepers than Mit'hu from what I've seen with my ignorant eyes, and none of them other than Pavel, who makes Omi's atrociously unstable batting technique look as graceful as Amla's, are lacking with the bat. Sohan, according to many, has genuine batting ability. The same was said of Dhiman and he did well enough to pretty much cement his place in the national team before the ICL drama, and his shortsighted comments at that time, drove him out of favor. I'm not sure how well a talent like Sohan will do at the highest level when he's ready but will take Richard's word for it without hesitation. Neither Liton, also a young prospect, nor Shahin is as talented but each has good temperament.
So why not Dhiman, for now? At least in tests and ODIs.
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  #28  
Old December 13, 2012, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel
Mit'hu is easily the best batsman we have amongst our wicket keepers, and is one of the best batsmen we have. I agree with Shuja Bhai in the sense that I believe being only a specialist batsman may greatly help his cause with the willow. Everybody here knows what I think of his on field captaincy, so I won't go into that again.
I feel that he is far from his ceiling as a batsman. If he did not deal with the rigors of keeping and kept working on batting, his test average should reach 40+, IMHO. (I don't think he will give it up easily. Players tend to have big ego.)

How do you really feel about his skipping?
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  #29  
Old December 13, 2012, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuziburo
So why not Dhiman, for now? At least in tests and ODIs.
Thing is, Dhiman would be a liability with the bat in ODI's. He has been a liability in ODI's for the A team. The only place I can see a place for him is Tests since keeping is literally a full time job. SL has a specialist keeper in Prasanna, SA has Boucher and Pak has Adnan Akmal. None of these guys really featured for ODI's but were or are regulars for Tests. I feel we could do the same with Tests.

Our selectors could have a problem with this, however, due to the lack of quality batting. SL could rely on Sanga, Jaya, and Dilshan to get big scores and Boucher could rely on the likes of Kallis and Smith. We, on the other hand, do not have the batsmen of that caliber so that's maybe why they play with the best batsmen rather than going in with 6 batsmen and a specialist keeper. I feel, however, for the time being Dhiman should be in for Tests.
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  #30  
Old December 13, 2012, 02:23 PM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger444
Thing is, Dhiman would be a liability with the bat in ODI's. He has been a liability in ODI's for the A team. The only place I can see a place for him is Tests since keeping is literally a full time job. SL has a specialist keeper in Prasanna, SA has Boucher and Pak has Adnan Akmal. None of these guys really featured for ODI's but were or are regulars for Tests. I feel we could do the same with Tests.

Our selectors could have a problem with this, however, due to the lack of quality batting. SL could rely on Sanga, Jaya, and Dilshan to get big scores and Boucher could rely on the likes of Kallis and Smith. We, on the other hand, do not have the batsmen of that caliber so that's maybe why they play with the best batsmen rather than going in with 6 batsmen and a specialist keeper. I feel, however, for the time being Dhiman should be in for Tests.
If Dhiman is very good with the gloves, I think we can sacrifice one batsman as we normally play with 8 batsman and 4 bowlers.I think in tests we can try like this:
1. Tamim
2. Jahirul/Imrul
3. Anamul
4. Mushy
5.Naeem
6. Shakib
7. Riyad
8. Dhiman+
9. Shohag
10.Pacer
11. Pacer
In home ground to me 2 pacers+Shakib+Shohag+2 part timer will not be a bad bowling option as well.

Last edited by M.H.Rubel; December 14, 2012 at 05:03 AM..
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  #31  
Old December 13, 2012, 02:42 PM
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^ Dhiman's batting record in FC is not so bad right?
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  #32  
Old December 13, 2012, 02:59 PM
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Dhiman's problem is self inflicted image problem, not capability problem. Otherwise he would have been tried long time ago.
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  #33  
Old December 13, 2012, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
Dhiman's problem is self inflicted image problem, not capability problem. Otherwise he would have been tried long time ago.
Our selectors are not smart enough to beyond this. Thus, this will not happen. Poor Dhiman. It was Dhiheen on his part!
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  #34  
Old December 13, 2012, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger444
Thing is, Dhiman would be a liability with the bat in ODI's. He has been a liability in ODI's for the A team. The only place I can see a place for him is Tests since keeping is literally a full time job. SL has a specialist keeper in Prasanna, SA has Boucher and Pak has Adnan Akmal. None of these guys really featured for ODI's but were or are regulars for Tests. I feel we could do the same with Tests.

Our selectors could have a problem with this, however, due to the lack of quality batting. SL could rely on Sanga, Jaya, and Dilshan to get big scores and Boucher could rely on the likes of Kallis and Smith. We, on the other hand, do not have the batsmen of that caliber so that's maybe why they play with the best batsmen rather than going in with 6 batsmen and a specialist keeper. I feel, however, for the time being Dhiman should be in for Tests.
Our selectors are unable to think outside the box. Remember, one of them was an unimaginative captain and the other allegedly has a KFC affinity.

Their thinking goes like this, 1) SRK grunts at 160 kph, so he must bowl at least at 140 kph. So, he is a great test bowler, especially given his old fivers. 2) Nazmul cannot be in the national team because he does not bowl fast. Successes of medium-pace legends like Kapil Dev, Ian Botham, Richard Hadlee, or Alec Bedser was due to luck. 3) Keep Mushfiqur as keeper. He will miss some catches. If the guys score centuries, Mushy will score a double.
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  #35  
Old December 13, 2012, 05:51 PM
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by the keep?

Last edited by Zeeshan; December 13, 2012 at 10:08 PM..
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  #36  
Old December 13, 2012, 06:03 PM
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if the selectors weren't so focused on stacking the team with batsmen then a specialist keeper would be easier to fit into the test team, dhiman should be able to be the keeper for tests, he'll do a really good job with the gloves and decent with the bat. in ODIs and t20Is your keeper has to bat so there really aren't many options other than mushy, could try anamul but it might hurt his development, mithun's keeping isn't very good and he's not played much at this level so his batting might not be worth bringing him in anyway.
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  #37  
Old December 13, 2012, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.H.Rubel
If Dhiman is very good with the gloves, I think we can sacrifice one batsman as we normally play with 8 batsman and 4 bowlers.I think we can try like this:
1. Tamim
2. Jahirul/Imrul
3. Anamul
4. Mushy
5.Naeem
6. Shakib
7. Riyad
8. Dhiman+
9. Shohag
10.Pacer
11. Pacer
In home ground to me 2 pacers+Shakib+Shohag+2 part timer will not be a bad bowling option as well.
Not in favor of playing 8 batsmen. No point of wasting a slot for Jahurul/Imrul. Have Anamul at opener. I know people will be screaming, he's a #3!!! I honestly see him performing at opener even for Tests. I agree with the rest of your lineup however.
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  #38  
Old December 13, 2012, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
if the selectors weren't so focused on stacking the team with batsmen then a specialist keeper would be easier to fit into the test team, dhiman should be able to be the keeper for tests, he'll do a really good job with the gloves and decent with the bat. in ODIs and t20Is your keeper has to bat so there really aren't many options other than mushy, could try anamul but it might hurt his development, mithun's keeping isn't very good and he's not played much at this level so his batting might not be worth bringing him in anyway.
I have never understood the rationale behind the wicketkeeper-batsman argument. A good keeper can make up far more than his batting weakness by stopping balls and making difficult dismissals. In all formats.
If any of you watched Syed Kirmani catch some perfectly-executed leg glances, you might have an idea. The look on the batsmen used to be something.
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  #39  
Old December 13, 2012, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.H.Rubel
1. Tamim
2. Jahirul/Imrul
3. Anamul
4. Mushy
5.Naeem
6. Shakib
7. Riyad
8. Dhiman+
9. Shohag
10.Pacer
11. Pacer
No Nasir?

Agree with Tiger444. Instead of wasting the openers position slot Anamul as opener and put Nasir in the team. Dont wanna put walking wickets ie Imrul and Jahurul in the test team. Although i believe Imrul is NOT a walking wicket for ODIs.

1. Tamim Iqbal
2. Anamul Haque
3. Naeem Islam
4. Mushfiqur Rahim
5. Shakib Al Hasan
6. Nasir Hossain
7. Mahmudullah
8. Dhiman Ghosh+
9. Sohag Gazi
10.
11.
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  #40  
Old December 13, 2012, 08:17 PM
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^missed that somehow. I'd have Nasir there ahead of Naeem.
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  #41  
Old December 13, 2012, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuziburo
I have never understood the rationale behind the wicketkeeper-batsman argument. A good keeper can make up far more than his batting weakness by stopping balls and making difficult dismissals. In all formats.
If any of you watched Syed Kirmani catch some perfectly-executed leg glances, you might have an idea. The look on the batsmen used to be something.
since gilchrist an dhoni the expectation of standard for a keepers batting ability has increased a lot. every team wants one and is trying to get one, they're pretty solid keepers (gilchrist was especially good imo) and as good as any other specialist batsman.
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  #42  
Old December 13, 2012, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
No Nasir?

Agree with Tiger444. Instead of wasting the openers position slot Anamul as opener and put Nasir in the team. Dont wanna put walking wickets ie Imrul and Jahurul in the test team. Although i believe Imrul is NOT a walking wicket for ODIs.

1. Tamim Iqbal
2. Anamul Haque
3. Naeem Islam
4. Mushfiqur Rahim
5. Shakib Al Hasan
6. Nasir Hossain
7. Mahmudullah
8. Dhiman Ghosh+
9. Sohag Gazi
10.
11.
that should be the line-up, only other real consideration should be playing 6 batsmen, then the keeper and then you have an extra slot for another bowler (probably sunny).

i agree with anamul opening, nasir should be a definite i mean in the last series he got 3 50+ scores and 2 of them were in the 90s so he's doing a fine job atm. naeem holds onto his spot due to that century but he has to move to #3 otherwise we can't fit all of shakib, nasir, mushy, riyad, himself and a keeper. however if naeem doesn't perform i'd expect mominul to be moved into the #3 spot. unless nasir is up for it. i don't seen any of shakib, mushy or riyad playing #3 in tests, nasir maybe though he's doing well in the middle lower order. so if naeem doesn't cement his spot at #3 then i think the next in line should be mominul or shuvagata.
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  #43  
Old December 14, 2012, 05:13 AM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
No Nasir?

Agree with Tiger444. Instead of wasting the openers position slot Anamul as opener and put Nasir in the team. Dont wanna put walking wickets ie Imrul and Jahurul in the test team. Although i believe Imrul is NOT a walking wicket for ODIs.

1. Tamim Iqbal
2. Anamul Haque
3. Naeem Islam
4. Mushfiqur Rahim
5. Shakib Al Hasan
6. Nasir Hossain
7. Mahmudullah
8. Dhiman Ghosh+
9. Sohag Gazi
10.
11.
Oh sorry I forgot to mention one of my favourite player.
If Naeem and Anamul can deliver what we expect from him then this team will be an awesome team. Most of the members here are good fighter .
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  #44  
Old December 14, 2012, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
since gilchrist an dhoni the expectation of standard for a keepers batting ability has increased a lot. every team wants one and is trying to get one, they're pretty solid keepers (gilchrist was especially good imo) and as good as any other specialist batsman.
Just because this is being done does not make this right. However, the keepers in other national teams can keep. Mushfiqur Rahim cannot! Even PAK gave up on Kamran Akmal, who was in the same "class" as Mushy in keeping.
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  #45  
Old December 14, 2012, 10:58 AM
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Dropping a good batsman can hurt you in many ways. Let's take a hypothetical ODI example below. We have seen this unfold many times in the past with our team.
  1. A team is at 25/3 after 10 overs.
  2. Both the batsman on the crease gives moderately difficult caught behind chances and both are dropped. Let's say no run scores off those drops. The team is 30/3 after 11, instead of 30/5.
  3. They score briskly at 5 rpo and lose only 1 wicket in the process.
  4. After 40 overs, they reach 225/4.
  5. Then they launch and score 80 in the last 10 overs for the loss of 4 wickets.
  6. The final score is 305/8 after 50 overs.
  7. It is possible that the team might have regrouped after 30/5, but in most cases, they would not cross 200, and in some cases even 150.
  8. The two drops cost the team at least 105-155 runs. If this is a routine occurrence, can the wicketkeeper routinely score a century to offset this?

Drops can cost a team in so many ways! This is why I want a competent wicketkeeper behind the stamps, in all formats. (The minimum criterion should be competency in keeping. Find the best batsmen among the ones who can do this.) Mushy could then concentrate on batting and skipping.
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  #46  
Old December 14, 2012, 11:38 AM
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I disagree on any other option instead of Mushy.
Anam is a new comer who is trying to establish himself as an opener or a top order btsmn, giving him the gloves is not going to help.
Dhiman is hopeless to me.
Besides Mushy is doing a fine job.
So why fixing something which isn't broken?
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  #47  
Old December 14, 2012, 11:52 AM
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Mushy may give up keeping in Test Cricket....An specialist keeper is as good as another additional bowler.... If he misses two catches/stumping per innings, match is virtually lost there. More over, if he isn't keeping, he is expected to concentrate more on his batting....Test match is a game of specialists, if you don't get a specialist keeper batsman...we shouldn't try to make it up by a weak keeper. And that keeper batsman strategy is more applicable for limited overs matches more than test matches... However improvement Mushy shows, he is still a limited capability keeper and his short height puts a lots of pressure on pace bowlers in test cricket....
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  #48  
Old December 14, 2012, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simon
I disagree on any other option instead of Mushy.
Anam is a new comer who is trying to establish himself as an opener or a top order btsmn, giving him the gloves is not going to help.
Dhiman is hopeless to me.
Besides Mushy is doing a fine job.
So why fixing something which isn't broken?
Really? Aren't wicketkeepers supposed to hold on to catches?
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  #49  
Old December 14, 2012, 01:27 PM
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He isn't as bad as people are making out to be. His keeping has greatly improved in the last year or so. Yes he missed some catches but that's just part of the game. First, if he is fit for captaincy and now for keeping...too much criticisms.

He is an average keeper. But beside Shakib and maybe Tamim, do we have any other above average player in the team compared to other countries? Can any of the other player referred to as the world class?

And we also don't have any Ian Healy, Adam Gilchrist sitting on the bench. Anamul plays as a batsmen, Dhiman and other are not even fringe players anymore. So Mushy is the best we got and should be continued with.
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  #50  
Old December 14, 2012, 02:24 PM
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Agree with Mustafa bhai, Rahim should be persisted with for now. However, We should not throw away the idea of grooming another keeper. Jahurul + Anamul +Dhiman + Sohan should be properly groomed by the fielding coach. Anamul should keep in domestic/DPL/BPL/ Matches. we should consistently keep them in touch. Keeping is a specialized skill. if you lose it, that's it, you are no longer a keeper.

Rahim Alhamdulillah! has indeed improved on his keeping skills even if it be little since last couple of years. However, it is the lack of focus or sometimes distracted presence of mind which leads him to drop dollies(and many of our fielders as well.....)
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