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  #26  
Old December 11, 2012, 08:35 AM
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^ Windiefan, you're teetering close to the verge of trolling on this forum but you make an amusing point.

I thought you'd retort by saying that West Indies were playing their weakest XI as they weren't fielding Lara, Viv, Marshall and Holding.

But seriously, at the end of the day, the WI selectors put on the field, the players they thought would comprise their strongest XI in November-December 2012. That's all.

And let's see the NZ ODI performances of the three that you mention and feel could have made such a tremendous impact: Ramdin, Bravo and Charles

Ramdin: 14, DNB, DNB with 2 catches and 1 stumping
Bravo: 53, 18, 2 with 3 wickets and 3 catches
Charles: 15, 1, 15 with no catches

So, they might have been part of an ODI winning team but how integral a role did they play? Not very much it seems. A case can only be made for Bravo snr. but he, like Shakib, seems to have been sidelined by injury. So, on balance, you can see why the Windies selectors fielded this team - a team that they thought would do very well in BD. (And with regard to Test performance, they were right)

Also, all the press coverage leading up to the tour indicates that the Windies players and admin. - dunno about the fans - were not taking BD lightly. For reference:
Not taking Bangladesh lightly - Gayle
Permaul picked for Bangladesh Tests
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  #27  
Old December 11, 2012, 08:37 AM
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WindiesFan stop trying so hard. Your team was selected by who your selectors fort would be most suited for subcon tour which is logical. The chose players who played in Ipl and Bpl....which is logical. Doesnt matter who your dream team is as fans all of different opinions on who should be in and who should be out. Go complain to your selectors!! We had 3-4 debutants for god sake and were playing our first test of the year and still first inning we performed well. We had debutants in all the formats and did not have our no1 player and still we one 3 odis. The T20 we ran the so called word champs close....these so called world champs in t20 could only take one wicket!!....we scored 179 with one down....you guys need 3 extra batsmens to score your 197. We lost because of battwrs not convertings ones to twos. We didnt lose because WI did anything special.
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  #28  
Old December 11, 2012, 08:48 AM
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@WestIndiesfan: lol are you really a West Indies fan? or a fan under the disguise of some other team? I mean the series is over so I don't understand why you're wasting your time here especially on minnows Bangladesh something bothering you? the fact is Bangladesh for a minnow team (not for long) made West Indies work hard and yeah should be embarrassed especially for a team that had full status in 1926. West Indies if you are really a fan will always remain the side of the past 10 years. I think Bangladesh rise in Cricket and support gets to you but you're not the only one phew!!! oh yeah "West Indies fan" Bangladesh beat Sri Lanka already this year and if you read the topic of this thread properly then you will understand that once the top old Sri Lanka trio leave the game then Sri Lanka is one of those teams that will become weak common sense really. Even in the Under-19 World Cup back in August, our youth team knocked them out so the future is clear boy

Last edited by MyRoom; December 11, 2012 at 09:21 AM..
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  #29  
Old December 11, 2012, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarWolf
We lack good pace bowlers. You can win matches with the spinners if the condition suits. But if you want to win matches regularly in all conditions then you will need good pace bowlers.

This is true for test cricket. This is true for ODI and T20I as well. Spinners are not good death over bowlers if the conditions doesn't suit them. Most of the good death over bowlers are pacers. You need to have good yorkers and reverse swingers to take wickets and stop the death over slogging by the batsmen.

Unless we find some good pacers and mature them before the upcoming world cup, I don't see much hope for having a good show in the world cup.
I agree with you.
What we need is an investment into a known pace bowling coach who will have the expertise and passion to work with our bowlers and management in BD. By the time all the other teams are transitioning with their young recruits, we will be in a better position to knock them out and win trophies.
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  #30  
Old December 11, 2012, 09:31 AM
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Actually I blame our pitches for not getting more good pace bowlers. If we can make our pitches which have lots of bounce and is fast, then it will encourage our players who want to become a serious fast bowler for Bangladesh. Pitches that are slow and low discourage fast bowlers where as fast and bouncy ones encourage them and will bowl for hours If you know what I mean.
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  #31  
Old December 11, 2012, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindieFan
Finally someone was willing to step up at last!! , anyway to be honest i think most of the points you raised are misguided, Rampaul only played in three of the games and has been injured for most of this tour, so facing him was hardly the biggest test yet still he got a 4fer, and when you faced Roach in the last two games he was having a ball, infact he got a 5fer in the last odi, just because Bangla eventually won it doesn't mean their batsmen done well against pace because one bowler can't win the game on his own, he needs support and apart from Narine no-one stepped up in the last match, the tests told it's own story when our reserve pacers (Edwards and Best) ran through the bang batting line up at will,



Johnson is just starting his career, he's showed flashes of class vs England, Australia and NZ, plus he'd been settled into the opening partnership with Gayle, Ramdin has also been a revelation over the past year and got a ton in the tests, while Dwayne's record cannot be argued, ALL THREE were part of our odi victory 4-1 against NZ, therefore that was our strongest team going into the Bangladesh series,



I've never argued about Shakib missing, but the bangla fan seem to be obsessed with this notion that they "beat a full strength wi" when you've openly admitted that they didn't!!, also yesterday when i mentioned that we beat Bangla EASILY yesterday with half a reserve side people started to complain!!!..i don't know why because again i was telling the truth!! .
starting his career or not his record speaks for itself. also if you read closely i don't admit to the WI team not being full strength, i said dwayne bravo may or may not have strengthened the team, he's inconsistent so he can't be relied upon really, again, his record speaks for itself.
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  #32  
Old December 11, 2012, 11:16 AM
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I thought about the same too. Even now Shakib, Mushy, Tamim has already 5 years of intl experience. By 2015 they will have around 8 years, which is vast experience. Others will catch up too. None of them will still be 30. So the future surely looks bright. That's one of the positives of debuting cricketers while they are so young.

Anamul/Momiunl already made their debut while their counterparts from other U19 WC countries will have to wait for long. Unmukt Chand and Babar Azam at least have to wait few years.
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  #33  
Old December 11, 2012, 11:33 AM
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Gooch just said batsmen are best between 27 and 35 re: Cook.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-...ry/596716.html
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  #34  
Old December 11, 2012, 12:03 PM
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Good "food for thought" thread. I saw someone bringing this up also in the comment section of Isam's article on Cricinfo; the commentator goes by the name Extreme Speed and always has something positive to say about BD cricket and usually accurate.
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  #35  
Old December 11, 2012, 12:14 PM
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Windiefan,
the argument is not whether WI fielded the best team per your choice or the team that did well against certain other teams in certain other conditions. The team was chosen by your selectors assuming it was the best for the subcontinent.
Whether you agree to the team selection or not is your choice. Most of us here in BC do not ever agree with the 11 that our selectors choose, does that mean we can then down play the loses of ours?
Of the players you mentioned that WI was missing, D. Bravo is the only noteworthy omission who is no where close to what Shakib is for BD....so please don't just argue just because it helps you sleep at night.
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  #36  
Old December 11, 2012, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyRoom
Actually I blame our pitches for not getting more good pace bowlers. If we can make our pitches which have lots of bounce and is fast, then it will encourage our players who want to become a serious fast bowler for Bangladesh. Pitches that are slow and low discourage fast bowlers where as fast and bouncy ones encourage them and will bowl for hours If you know what I mean.
Yes, slow pitches discourage pace bowling. But, Pakistan produces world-class pacers in large numbers, despite dead pitches. Physique has to do with it, at least partly. But, we have well-built pacers such as Abul Hasan. BCB needs to make pace-bowling development a priority. Once a tradition is established, we'll get them in numbers. Pakistan did not have good pace bowlers. Them Sarfraz and Imran came. The rest is history. Rafique started the SLA thing in BD. We need just one world-class pacer to emerge.
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  #37  
Old December 11, 2012, 12:42 PM
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Did we forget that how many debutants had performed for bd during the entire series but someone is keep whinging that they had left out key players. If WI played with reserved teams then we did so too. If any team with plenty of star and experienced player can't beat a team which is mostly made of 19-23 yrs old, 4 debutants, handful of game to their name then it's quite disgraceful
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  #38  
Old December 11, 2012, 01:23 PM
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Ageing is an universal problem, specially for players who have limited professional life-span.

I say to tackle this problem we should recruit more ageless talent like Ashraful.
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  #39  
Old December 11, 2012, 02:50 PM
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This calls for another celebration thread!
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  #40  
Old December 12, 2012, 02:48 AM
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if WI can field their strongest team than they are unbeatable, invincible. even this WI team would have beaten the team of 1983 if they had charles, ramdin and bravo senior in.

it will be a tough task for WI to keep their strongest team fit. some will be aged, some will be injured, some will be lacking form and fitness and some will make quarrels with board etc etc.

but if they play with their best team then no body can stop them. if they loose its definite that they have missed their best players.

well the biggest trouble WI will be if they have 15 best players, may be some day some fan will come and say WI lost because they could not play their 6 pacers and 4 spinners as there was 7 batsman who used up slots in the 11. perhaps then WI will apply for playing 15 in a team or 18 in a team or may be 36 they way potential players are emerging from WI.

N.B: hashite hashite goragori khacchi
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  #41  
Old December 12, 2012, 06:37 AM
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Bangladesh has certainly improved in ODI's. And at the rate with which they are improving Bdesh can surely beat other teams and by 2015 I don't think when Bdesh beats any top ranked side in the world it will be labelled as an upset as seen in earlier world cups.. I don't think Bdesh will win it but it can be their best performance in a world cup till date.
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  #42  
Old December 12, 2012, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindieFan
"Ashraful"? AND YOU THINK I'M "TROLLING"?
Yes Ashraful who's ODI batting average is higher than domestic List A averages of world beaters like Charles Johnson and Dinesh Ramdin.
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  #43  
Old December 12, 2012, 07:01 PM
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Hahaha! Sorry I laughed out loud reading the title of this thread. To me, class is forever. Some of these older cricketers you are mentioning will take 2 matches or less to rape our young team. Maybe fail in the first one, due to an off day, but then mercilessly punish the team in the 2nd match as they find form.

Technique cannot be replaced, and the older folks got it.

But no, I see what you saying. You are banking on the other teams not to produce such technicians in future. But what if they do? We better have plenty of our own by then.
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  #44  
Old December 12, 2012, 07:15 PM
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@ WindieFan :
Mi a gonna tell ya dis once for aal...
Bd is the worse team in the world, can't play pace, can't bowl pace! yet they beat WI team..
what does that make your team?

its better you do what England does... Praise the team/player that beats them..make them the best..and reward them Wisden Cricketer/team of the world
The stronger you think of BD..the better it will look for WI ... just sayin
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  #45  
Old December 12, 2012, 08:24 PM
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Ramdin, Bravo and this Charles guy averages 25, 24 and 19 respectively, meanwhile Ashraful averages 22 in ODIs. Just saying, not much of a difference.
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  #46  
Old December 12, 2012, 10:07 PM
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problem is we become mature after entering the international team. and they enter after they are mature....
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  #47  
Old December 22, 2012, 08:30 PM
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  #48  
Old December 22, 2012, 11:38 PM
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West Indies are equally poor odi team as Bangladesh away from home. They have been and will continue to be slaughtered in conditions like Australia/ Eng/ SA and in subcontinent
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  #49  
Old January 2, 2013, 09:38 PM
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Looks like NZ should not be too difficult to beat also. Being shot out for 45 in tests is shocking!
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  #50  
Old January 2, 2013, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
Looks like NZ should not be too difficult to beat also. Being shot out for 45 in tests is shocking!
Australia shouldnt be too difficult either.
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