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  #1  
Old December 28, 2012, 03:15 PM
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BANFAN BANFAN is offline
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Default ____ would have been one of the greats had he played for a better side

_____would have been one of the great ______ had he played for a better side than BD.

I have heard this logic being applied to quiet a few of our players. Logically it should be opposite, because they have a better opportunity to prove their worth playing for BD with the limitations they have. When you say this do you also consider a improved version of the player due to better facilities, guidance and more matches? Or with their standard at real debut...?

If an improved version, then it could be every BD player, as talented as they were in their teens, but if in current debut form and standards, I think, they have a better opportunity to do Better because they are playing for BD. in other teams, even our best performers wouldn't have so much opportunity, due to competition within the team.

Like Shakib could have had a debut as a bowler in many teams, but batting wise he could have been a 9-11 in the team, hence he would hardly get the opportunity to score runs to emerge as an all-rounder....well, if he had the talent, he could have even climbed up doing good in 9-11, but he would have had hard time than in BD team. Here he enjoys the luxury to chose any position he wants which wouldn't have been the case in a Ausie team.

So, I feel, that's just a fans way of praising some one to feel good, rather than really meaning it as they say. ... Or does anyone seriously feel other way ??

Last edited by BANFAN; December 29, 2012 at 08:45 PM..
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  #2  
Old December 29, 2012, 07:38 PM
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What aout when the selectors, the coach or the Captain doesn't pick you ?

e.g.

Rajin Saleh
Alok Kapali
Nazmul Hossain

??
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  #3  
Old December 29, 2012, 09:30 PM
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I do disagree here BANFAN!

Being a Bangladeshi player, you lose the opportunity to score a ton and a fifer against Bangladesh in the same time. Ask Gillerpie, he knows better!

Being a TIGER, you don't have any opportunity to play test more than two per year and you get 12 - 15 ODIs/year and few T20s!! I think, our players are doing wonders compare to the opportunity they are getting.

I am on behalf of BANFAN in favour of our TIGERS!!!
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  #4  
Old December 31, 2012, 05:41 AM
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Interesting topic. I reckon many Bangladeshi players with ability would've been better than they are had they been nurtured and developed through more professional and competitive cricket set ups from school and U19 to FC, Academy and A Team cricket. Each one of those players would have developed the desire to work hard on his own and become more technically sound in the process. A better set up would also have contributed to less premeditation, better shot selection more often, and definitely superior ability to rotate the strike with ease.

Then again, quite a few of our guys who played international cricket would never have been selected to play at the highest level, and simply stupid guys irrespective of ability would not have gotten too many chances either.
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  #5  
Old December 31, 2012, 06:27 AM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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None of our players would have played any international cricket if, for argument sake we were still a part of Pakistan or India. Many of the Indopaks have an infectious and systemic superiority complex when it comes to Bangladeshis. Neither can stomach anything good we do.
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  #6  
Old December 31, 2012, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
None of our players would have played any international cricket if, for argument sake we were still a part of Pakistan or India. Many of the Indopaks have an infectious and systemic superiority complex when it comes to Bangladeshis. Neither can stomach anything good we do.
the feeling is mutual brother..i mean this is also true in the other way
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  #7  
Old December 31, 2012, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
None of our players would have played any international cricket if, for argument sake we were still a part of Pakistan or India. Many of the Indopaks have an infectious and systemic superiority complex when it comes to Bangladeshis. Neither can stomach anything good we do.
Disagree as far as India is concerned. You would have been right 20 years ago that the system worked against players who came from minor centers. But thanks to the huge exposure that cricket now receives in the media, there is almost zero chance how that a brilliant talent like TI would get excluded only because he came from a non-fashionable part of the country.

Quote:
I reckon many Bangladeshi players with ability would've been better than they are had they been nurtured and developed through more professional and competitive cricket set ups from school and U19 to FC, Academy and A Team cricket.
I have always wondered how someone like Ash with plenty of talent and no common sense would have done if he played for a bit of time with Dravid or Tendulkar.
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  #8  
Old December 31, 2012, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tintin
Disagree as far as India is concerned. You would have been right 20 years ago that the system worked against players who came from minor centers. But thanks to the huge exposure that cricket now receives in the media, there is almost zero chance how that a brilliant talent like TI would get excluded only because he came from a non-fashionable part of the country.



I have always wondered how someone like Ash with plenty of talent and no common sense would have done if he played for a bit of time with Dravid or Tendulkar.
Well I doubt Tamim would get a chance ahead of Sehwag/ Dravid etc.. so in a way they are actually lucky. Only Shakib would fit the qualification.
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  #9  
Old December 31, 2012, 11:42 AM
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How can you be great if you play for a better side? You can win more trophies depending on the skill of others and that might make you great. But how can you be a skilled player yourself?

Learning from other players in that team? Yeah sure, but I think it's only a small factor.


Like Lebron was and is truly great , and so he could justify going to south beach to get a title. But right now we don't have single player ( not even shakib al hassan) who can claim to be so great that his team is holding him back from winning the world cup. Nope, just not believable.
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  #10  
Old December 31, 2012, 08:16 PM
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I'll tell you who is one player who would dominate if he played for a Test side : Kenyan batsman Steve Tikolo. That guy had longevity, talent and all the skills. Pity he played for Kenya.

From our side, I reckon Shahadat would actually have become a better bowler had he been in a setup where his ego wasn't stroked and he'd have received proper coaching and fitness regimen in the off-season.
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  #11  
Old December 31, 2012, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianLara7
Well I doubt Tamim would get a chance ahead of Sehwag/ Dravid etc.. so in a way they are actually lucky. Only Shakib would fit the qualification.
Tamim may still not win a head-to-head contest with Sehwag, but over the last four or five India has had more than 10 openers, including people like Parthiv Patel, Murali Vijay, Abhinav Mukund, Rahane, Uthappa, Tiwary etc. Tamim will beat almost all of them.

It is not like it is a real meritocracy. Certain people, especially from certain IPL teams, get picked again & again despite failures, stroke players and sloggers get preferred to defensive players etc. But the prejudice against people from some parts of the country, which is the only thing that can go against Tamim, is much less evident now.
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  #12  
Old January 2, 2013, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tintin
Tamim may still not win a head-to-head contest with Sehwag, but over the last four or five India has had more than 10 openers, including people like Parthiv Patel, Murali Vijay, Abhinav Mukund, Rahane, Uthappa, Tiwary etc. Tamim will beat almost all of them.

It is not like it is a real meritocracy. Certain people, especially from certain IPL teams, get picked again & again despite failures, stroke players and sloggers get preferred to defensive players etc. But the prejudice against people from some parts of the country, which is the only thing that can go against Tamim, is much less evident now.
Well Bengal haven't produced very many cricketers at the top level for India despite being the 2nd largest state - population wise. Ganguly, Saha, Dinda, and Tiwary are the only ones who come to mind recently. Of those, none are currently set in the side. Of course Dinda and Saha probably don't deserve it on merit, but Tiwary seems to have been looked over kind of like Rahane now. Most of the other population centers churn out a good deal of cricketers...Punjab, Delhi, Maharastra, Karnataka, Tamil Nadu. Andhra is notably neglected, but not too the extent of Bengal. That is just my take based on a cursory view of course.
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  #13  
Old January 2, 2013, 09:55 PM
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Cricket is a team game and in a team game the momentum matters. A middle order batsman going into bat after openers have laid the platform finds it a lot easier to score as opposed to a situation where the team is 3 down for 30. Similarly a spin bowler finds it a lot easier to bowl when the pace bowlers have taken wickets up front and built up pressure.
This is where the advantage of being in a great side matters for an individual because that cricketer can play with a lot more freedom due to the platform/edge provided by his teammates.
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  #14  
Old January 3, 2013, 02:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Well Bengal haven't produced very many cricketers at the top level for India despite being the 2nd largest state - population wise.

That's because West Bengal is a soccer power house babay! It's all about Mohun Bagan and East Bengal FC babay!
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