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  #26  
Old March 14, 2013, 10:39 PM
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I have to agree with Jadukor. Fact can be harsh but it is what it is.

SJ may be working on the intangible side of training but he hasn't had enough time to be blamed or credited for anything. But sadly the only thing he had time for, fast bowling, did not yield any result for the last few series. I know the blame isn't totally his but we need result; whatever the cost may be.
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  #27  
Old March 15, 2013, 05:42 AM
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JS Ferot Ashse naki abar ...
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  #28  
Old March 15, 2013, 06:43 AM
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I think blaming Jurgensen for our horrendous pace bowling department is like blaming the cook when the ingredients are atrocious. I have not seen a single pacer in the past few years who would even make it into County teams or Australian State teams.
The fact that Mashrafe, after 12 years of his debut, and after 6 knee reconstruction, is still our best bowler, tell you the story. Our pace bowlers lack physical fitness to be playing tests. They also lack a lot of technical abilities required to be at the highest level. I normally like to be optimistic about every aspect of our game, but the way pace bowling in our country is going, we can't expect too much of them yet.
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  #29  
Old March 15, 2013, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beshideshi
I think blaming Jurgensen for our horrendous pace bowling department is like blaming the cook when the ingredients are atrocious. I have not seen a single pacer in the past few years who would even make it into County teams or Australian State teams.
The fact that Mashrafe, after 12 years of his debut, and after 6 knee reconstruction, is still our best bowler, tell you the story. Our pace bowlers lack physical fitness to be playing tests. They also lack a lot of technical abilities required to be at the highest level. I normally like to be optimistic about every aspect of our game, but the way pace bowling in our country is going, we can't expect too much of them yet.
I have actually seen marked improvement of the pacers during 3 months of Ian Pont. I have seen improvement of spinners during Mushtaq's period against WI... A coach really can make difference with his presence. You can see at least working to a plan, accepting their limitations. But that's what is completely absent with SJ..

If a bowler has a plan, that even reflects confidence in his on field body language. I neither see that vibe in either pacers or spinners what I saw when those two were present.. What I see now is, the bowlers are trying hard, but without a plan...I feel there is no solid input from the bowling coach...
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  #30  
Old March 15, 2013, 08:08 AM
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SJ can admit he is not good enough for pace bowlers and ask BCB for a bowling coach. BCB can keep him as HC if he is doing good.

He got Abul Hasan from the beginning. Couldn't make any improvements.
I'm not blaming him for Shahadat. He is always same.
He didn't ask Selectors to give him pacers outside national squad. There are many youngsters he could have worked with. When Pont was with the national team he did work with pacers outside the national squad.
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  #31  
Old March 15, 2013, 10:21 AM
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Problem with pace bowling is more skin deep. I dont think even the best pace bowling coach in the world will be able to get anything out of Shahadat and Abul. Unfortunately Rubel, Mashrafe and Shafiul have been injury plagued. And the selectors totally ignore the only pace bowler who has good basics. Abul Hasan hasnt even picked 10 wickets in first class cricket. How can we expect someone so raw to make an impact at this level?

BCB, selectors need long term planning and implementation to resolve this crisis. Dont expect SJ or even Craig McDermott to come and solve it. Theres so much that needs to be done- pace unit/academy, pace/talent hunts. Developing pace friendly pitches to encourage seamers. Developing strengthening/diet plans for pace bowlers to prevent injuries (Like we saw Shafiul, Rubel, Mashrafe struggle with). Picking bowlers who have actually succeeded in domestic cricket, giving them A team tours-home and abroad. And only introduce them into the NT once they are ready. Only then a pace bowling coach can make an impact. Sri Lanka has 4 fast bowling coaches. 2 of them work with the NT, 2 of them work with the emerging. They have specialist fitness trainers, physios for their pace bowlers. Now what do we have in comparison?
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  #32  
Old March 15, 2013, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeesh
Now what do we have in comparison?
Unrealistic expectation may be that may not back up with reality. And ofcourse a punching bag in JS for failing to produce FBs for the nation.
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  #33  
Old March 15, 2013, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
I have actually seen marked improvement of the pacers during 3 months of Ian Pont. I have seen improvement of spinners during Mushtaq's period against WI... A coach really can make difference with his presence. You can see at least working to a plan, accepting their limitations. But that's what is completely absent with SJ..

If a bowler has a plan, that even reflects confidence in his on field body language. I neither see that vibe in either pacers or spinners what I saw when those two were present.. What I see now is, the bowlers are trying hard, but without a plan...I feel there is no solid input from the bowling coach...
The one series where the pacers looked like they could bowl was against NZ, however I still think the performance was enhanced by the shortcoming of the NZ batsmen during that period. Pacers had 'not so rubbish' patches, but overall the standards have been quite poor.

And if you are playing test cricket, and still do not have a plan to get a batsman out, then you should not be there in the first place. Simple as that. Why should the coach spoon feed them every single detail? A kid who has played 4 cricket games would know the basics about getting a batsman out, 1. Don't let him score runs 2. Bowl where he least wants it. 3. Persist with the line & length. 4. Bowl in 3 ball overs, ie. outswing outswing inswing.
You should not be needing a bowling coach to figure that out. I can't help but think, even if these bowlers are polished and the best is found out them, anyone would be averaging below 45 in test cricket.
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  #34  
Old March 15, 2013, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeesh
Problem with pace bowling is more skin deep. I dont think even the best pace bowling coach in the world will be able to get anything out of Shahadat and Abul. Unfortunately Rubel, Mashrafe and Shafiul have been injury plagued. And the selectors totally ignore the only pace bowler who has good basics. Abul Hasan hasnt even picked 10 wickets in first class cricket. How can we expect someone so raw to make an impact at this level?

BCB, selectors need long term planning and implementation to resolve this crisis. Dont expect SJ or even Craig McDermott to come and solve it. Theres so much that needs to be done- pace unit/academy, pace/talent hunts. Developing pace friendly pitches to encourage seamers. Developing strengthening/diet plans for pace bowlers to prevent injuries (Like we saw Shafiul, Rubel, Mashrafe struggle with). Picking bowlers who have actually succeeded in domestic cricket, giving them A team tours-home and abroad. And only introduce them into the NT once they are ready. Only then a pace bowling coach can make an impact. Sri Lanka has 4 fast bowling coaches. 2 of them work with the NT, 2 of them work with the emerging. They have specialist fitness trainers, physios for their pace bowlers. Now what do we have in comparison?
Exactly. The culture is very wrong and the least pacer friendly. Abul Hasan averages 89 in FC, how can a selector panel dare to put him into the depth of test cricket? What did we expect, he is going to beat the batsmen for pace while bowling at 140?

I have said this before, we need to have a proper pace academy, where all the kids will think about 24/7 is pace bowling, bowling quick and getting the batsman out. No one will be an all rounder, no one will end up as a batsman, just pure pace bowlers.
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  #35  
Old March 15, 2013, 11:09 AM
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@BANFAN. Do you think all our spinners improved under Saqlain? Or just Gazi? And in any case a spin coach shouldnt have much difficulty nurturing our guys. Guys like Saqlain Sajib, Enamul Jnr, Sunn'ys have all 200 plus wickets in first class cricket. They have been bowling all their lives in spin friendly wickets. The basic ingredients are all there. I bet if you put Salahuddin as our spin coach you ll have similar impact.
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  #36  
Old March 15, 2013, 05:08 PM
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Ever since Ian Pont left, pace bowling only went wayward and lower quality. So yes, we need Ian Pont back either as a pace bowling coach or as head coach. I am not sure what Shane Jurgensen really does, he is there for 2 years with no positive impact, and Ian made positive impact in 3 months..
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  #37  
Old March 15, 2013, 07:59 PM
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If Ian made positive impact in 3 months with out young FBs, then may be he should be hired to work with our young FBs outside the national team. That should be the way anyway, so that there is constant flow of more prepared FBs in the national team.

Why you would want to teach your players basics in the national level?
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  #38  
Old March 15, 2013, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
If Ian made positive impact in 3 months with out young FBs, then may be he should be hired to work with our young FBs outside the national team. That should be the way anyway, so that there is constant flow of more prepared FBs in the national team.

Why you would want to teach your players basics in the national level?
Simple - because they do not know the basics. We do not have the luxury of a more developed cricketing nation to expect our national pipeline of cricketers loaded to the gills with the basics. What we have is reality - team chock full of bad habits which unfortunately have to be coached out while they are IN the national time. Yes, we should also ensure that the reservoir filling the pipeline is properly groomed and that's why we have the Academy under the aegis of McInnes and I'm also hoping we set of proper coaching academies all over to instill the right techniques and habits before they get entrenched. That being said, we will bear the fruits in the future. What do we do right now? Yes, we WOULD want to teach our players basics at the National level. Simple, really. Reality, really.
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  #39  
Old March 15, 2013, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Simple - because they do not know the basics. We do not have the luxury of a more developed cricketing nation to expect our national pipeline of cricketers loaded to the gills with the basics. What we have is reality - team chock full of bad habits which unfortunately have to be coached out while they are IN the national time. Yes, we should also ensure that the reservoir filling the pipeline is properly groomed and that's why we have the Academy under the aegis of McInnes and I'm also hoping we set of proper coaching academies all over to instill the right techniques and habits before they get entrenched. That being said, we will bear the fruits in the future. What do we do right now? Yes, we WOULD want to teach our players basics at the National level. Simple, really. Reality, really.
If that is the reality, then hire Ian (or someone like his caliber ) as bowling coach and help JS, the head coach, in that aspect . Problem solved.

I don't see any we need to replace JS at this stage when overall we are seeing somehow we are doing better than expected as a team overcoming with key major injuries and a flood of new inexperienced players.
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  #40  
Old March 16, 2013, 04:19 AM
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Pacer der bindu matro improvement korte pare nai, abar 3 jon pacer khelay. Shokh koto.
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  #41  
Old March 16, 2013, 05:04 AM
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Unity helps, but when you have skills....would be better if he was working on skill than unity...the captain can take care of unity....
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  #42  
Old March 16, 2013, 07:16 AM
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We don't have bowlers to take 20 wkts so on most wickets if we win toss we would probably bat. On a pitch like this that assists pace bowling we knew that if Sri lanka win toss they would make us bat too. So logically we could have gone with two spinners knowing Sri lanka would have to bat last. It would have countered the Sri Lankan strategy well.
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  #43  
Old March 16, 2013, 07:17 AM
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Motivation didn't work well this time. Back to inconsistent performance.

Though, must congratulate the coach for Test one performance. Beyond my wildest dream.
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  #44  
Old March 16, 2013, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
We don't have bowlers to take 20 wkts so on most wickets if we win toss we would probably bat. On a pitch like this that assists pace bowling we knew that if Sri lanka win toss they would make us bat too. So logically we could have gone with two spinners knowing Sri lanka would have to bat last. It would have countered the Sri Lankan strategy well.
The bold part negates the underline part.
Plus rain is projected all five days we play. The moisture and cloud cover in the slow pitch would help the fast bowlers.
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  #45  
Old March 18, 2013, 09:10 AM
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Credit must be given to SJ. Quicks have shown a lot more discipline and they bowled to a plan. Unfortunately our batsmen couldnt match that
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