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Old September 30, 2003, 12:35 PM
Tehsin Tehsin is offline
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Default Lost post by Tintin - % of team\'s runs in the second innings

Tintin

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Mood:
posted on 28-9-2003 at 13:05

% of team's runs in the second innings

A post by Arnab last night and my reply to it disappeared during the move. It was about the % of their teams second innings runs Tendulkar and Lara scored.

India played 108 test matches in SRT's time. Tendulkar played in 105.
India had a second innings in 72 of them, SRT batted in 66 with 13 notouts.

Tendulkar's figures are 2568 176 155* 136 48.45 9x100 10x50 4x0
India made 15986 runs for 512 at 31.22 in these innings.
Tendulkar scored 16.06% of the runs

The 15986 is the runs that India scored in all the 72 innings - not just the 66 in which SRT batted. Similarly for Lara.


WI played 114 test matches in Lara's time.
Lara played in 96 tests, of which 79 had a West Indian second innings and he batted in 73 and (only) 5 notouts.

Lara's figures are 2975 153* 145 130 43.75 7x100 14x50 5x0
WI made 15494 runs for 615 wkts at 25.19 in these innings
Lara scored 19.20% of the runs

The standard warning that a lot of these were done manually and there may be errors apply !




Tintin

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Mood:
posted on 28-9-2003 at 13:13

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

India played 108 test matches in SRT's time. Tendulkar played in 105. India had a second innings in 72 of them, SRT batted in 66 with 13 notouts.
The 15986 is the runs that India scored in all the 72 innings - not just the 66 in which SRT batted. Similarly for Lara.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Just to clarify :

India played in 108 tests and had a second innings in 75 of them.

SRT played in 105. India had a second innings in 72 of those tests. SRT batted in 66 of them.




Mridul

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Mood:
posted on 28-9-2003 at 21:48

great job Tintin !!!




Arnab

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Mood:
posted on 29-9-2003 at 01:13

Thanks to tintin for giving me back my 20 minutes.

[Edited on 29-9-2003 by Arnab]




Arnab

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Mood:
posted on 29-9-2003 at 01:33

God Bless Herge!

[Edited on 29-9-2003 by Arnab]




Tintin

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Mood:
posted on 29-9-2003 at 04:08

Retrieved this from the cache


============


ehsan

posted on 28-9-2003 at 02:53 PM
Tintin bhai Welcome to the group of Club Cricketers.

===============


Tintin

posted on 28-9-2003 at 04:19 PM
Thanks, Ehsan. I appreciate it, coming from a test cricketer

After adjusting these innings :

India 15187 505 30.37 and SRT scored 16.90% of the runs.

The innings which have disappeared are India's 303/3 in his first test, 149/0 in NZ in 1989/0, 29/1 in SAF 1992/3, 249/2 in NZ 1998/9, 64/1 against Bangladesh, and 5/0 v England in 2001/2.

WI 15328 615 24.92. Lara scored 19.40 %

The ones missing now are 29/0 v Pak in Bridgetown 92/3, 43/0 v Eng, St John's 93/4, 29/0 v NZ, Bridgetown 95.6, 57/0 v Aus Perth 96/7, 3/0 v Aus, Kingston 98/9, 5/0 v Ind, Bridgetown, 01/02.

[Edited on 28-9-2003 by Tintin]


==================


ehsan

posted on 28-9-2003 at 04:37 PM
O gosh, I thought the rank "Club Cricketer" starts from 100 posts.

I guess I was late to wish you.



====================


Tintin

posted on 28-9-2003 at 04:37 PM
This is a way to do this with the tools that we have. Hopefully someone will find this useful :

Getting the second innings stats for batsmen is easy. Statsguru has an 'advanced filter' option which can be used to filter out just the second innings. Do that to list all SRT's innings with the 'include missed matches' set to 'yes'.

But if we do the same thing for 'India' for SRT's era, Statsguru provides the second innings for both the teams. So copy and paste this in a text file. Delete all the non-Indian innings, delete all the tests in which SRT did not play (shown as DNP is SRT's lists). Also delete the innings in which SRT did not bat.

Save this text file and open it in Excel. When we try to open a text file, Excel will trigger its 'text import wizard'. Select 'delimited' option with space and backslash as delimiters. Now innings scores will appear in one column and and the wickets/no of overs in the next. Replace the number of overs to 10 (all out innings). Add up the columns for runs and wickets. That's about it.

It took me something like 40 minutes yesterday, but I guess this can be done in less than 10 minutes once you know how to do it.



[Edited on 28-9-2003 by Tintin]


=======================


Arnab

posted on 28-9-2003 at 05:02 PM
Some more interesting facts on Sachin and Lara.

a. In the fourth innings of a match, which is also team second innings(regardless of results):

Sachin has scored 785 runs in 29 innings at an average of 35.68 with 2 centuries and 2 half-centuries.

Lara has scored 1181 runs in 34 innings of 40.72 with 2 centuries and 6 fifties.

b. In the fourth innings of a match, in which WI or India won:

Sachin has scored 203 runs in 9 innings at an average of 50.75 with 0 centuries, 0 half-centuries and 5 notouts.

Lara has scored 406 runs in 10 innings at 81.20 with 1 century, 2 fifties, 4 notouts.

c. In the team 2nd innings (which is also either the third or fourth match innings) , regardless of results:

Sachin has scored 2568 runs in 66 innings at an average of 48.45 with 9 centuries, 10 fifties.

Lara has scored 2975 runs in 73 innings at 43.75 with 7 centuries and 14 fifties.

d. In the team 2nd innings (which is also either the third or fourth match innings), where WI/India won the match:

Sachin has scored 629 runs in 17 innings at an average of 62.90 with 2 centuries, 1 fifty and 7 notouts.

Lara has scored 800 runs in 18 innings at 57.14 with 1 century, 5 fifties, 4 notouts.

[Edited on 28-9-2003 by Arnab]


========================



Tintin

posted on 28-9-2003 at 05:04 PM
So Lara is not as better in the second innings as he is made out to be, is he ?


Edit : I'll qualify that statement. But if you take out the 153*, Lara's figures would become much more ordinary.





[Edited on 28-9-2003 by Tintin]


==============



Arnab

posted on 28-9-2003 at 05:17 PM
Hehe...but it is the 153* (quite possibly the greatest test innings ever) that makes Lara so extraordinary.


=================



Tintin

posted on 28-9-2003 at 05:21 PM


If only Tendulkar's 136 against Pakistan was 150*

===============



Arnab

posted on 28-9-2003 at 05:47 PM
Lara against the minnows:

against Srilanka: 14 innings, 1125 runs, ave. 86.53, 5 centuries, 2 fifty, 0 notout.

against NewZealand: 8 innings, 614 runs, ave. 51.16, 1 century, 4 fifties, 0 notout.

against Zimbabwe: has not played yet.

So against the minnows (sans the weakest ZIM), with their weak bowling attacks and all, Lara has scored 1739 runs in 22 innings at an average of 79.04.

Tendulkar against the minnows:

against Srilanka: 16 innings, 1124 runs, ave. 80.28, 6 centuries, 3 fifties, 2 notouts.

against NewZealand: 23 innings, 991 runs, ave. 55.05, 3 centuries, 4 fifties, 5 notouts.

against Zimbabwe: 14 innings, 918 runs, ave. 76.50, 3 centuries, 3 fifties, 2 notouts.

against Bangladesh: 1 inning, 18 run.

So against the minnows, with their weak bowling attacks and all, Sachin has scored 3051 runs in 54 innings at an average of 67.80.

-----------------

Observations:

1. Lara has played only 22 innings compared to Sachin's whopping 54.

2. Lara hasn't even played zimbabwe, the weakest of test teams.

3. Sachin has amassed 3051 runs against the minnows at an average of 67. 50, almost ten points greater than his overall average. Lara's stats are even more skewed. His average of 79 against the minnows is almost 28 points higher than his current ave.

3051 is 34.68% of 8811, Sachin's total runs. So Sachin scored 1/3 rd of his runs against the minnows.

Lara's 1739 is 20.69%(about 1/5th) of his total of 8404 runs.

4. Lara has scored 6 centuries in 22 innings against the minnows, as opposed to Sachin's 12 in 54.

Gross speculation: Had Lara played in 54 innings against the minnows like Sachin has, he would have scored 14 or 15 centuries and 4268 runs in those matches.

[Edited on 28-9-2003 by Arnab]



============================



Arnab

posted on 28-9-2003 at 06:26 PM
Let's say, both had to play only 1 inning (or an equal number of innings) against each test team. We will use their average to predict how many runs they will score in each of those innings. If we calculate the sum of those innings, what happens?

Lara:

Aus: 51.45
SA: 35.95
Eng: 65.26
Pak: 30.30
Ind: 37.66
NZ: 51. 66
Sri: 86.53
----------

Total: 358.81 runs in 7 innings at an average of 51.25.

Sachin:

Aus: 54.07
SA: 37.92
Eng: 76.50
WI: 57.73
NZ: 55.05
Pak: 32.91
Sri: 80.28
NZ: 55.05
Zim: 76.50
--------------
Total 526.01 runs at an average of 58.44

PS: All those averages are also skewed by the notout factor. If we take out the not out factor, what happens? Tintin?

[Edited on 28-9-2003 by Arnab]


====================

Tintin

posted on 28-9-2003 at 10:00 PM
Without notouts

Tendulkar :

Aus : 50.21
Eng : 70.13
NZ : 43.09
Pak : 32.91
SAF : 36.46
SL : 70.25
WI : 53.12
Zim : 65.57


421.74/8 = 52.71

Lara :
Aus : 49.40
Eng : 61.63
NZ : 51.16
Pak : 30.30
SAF : 35.95
SL : 80.36
Ind : 37.36

346.16/7 = 49.45


I guess it is not fair to Tendulkar to consider the notouts because he comes slightly lower down the order and has more opportunities for notouts.

Still, the picture remains the same. With notouts, SRT has better averages against every country except SL. Without it, he trails only in SL and NZ.

I guess the reason why 'minnows' table reflected something else was because we considered too few matches, and Lara happened to have one outstanding series among them.


PS : Arnab, you have added NZ twice



[Edited on 29-9-2003 by Tintin]




Tintin

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Mood:
posted on 29-9-2003 at 04:32






Arnab

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Mood:
posted on 29-9-2003 at 04:43

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess the reason why 'minnows' table reflected something else was because we considered too few matches, and Lara happened to have one outstanding series among them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Actually he has had two outstanding series against Srilanka. The one away was more outstanding, tho. The curious thing is all this has happened after Lara has supposedly crossed his peak but looks like he managed to return to it in quite an outstanding manner.

Excluding Smith's freak form in England recently and Waugh's slaughtering of Bangladesh, I would say the best test batsman for the last 12 months has definitely been Lara. This is also reflected in his PWC ratings.




Arnab

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Mood:
posted on 29-9-2003 at 04:56

Tracing Lara's Comback

We can consider the last WI tour of Srilanka as a definite turning point in Lara's career.

Since(and including) that series upto now, Lara has scored 1871 runs in 26 innings at an average of 71.96 with 6 centuries, 8 fifties, 1 not out.

Having an average of 71.96 for 26 innings(unlike say, Smith) against different oppositions like AUS, IND, NZ, and SL is pretty awesome.

More tidbits: Out of those 26, he had 19 innings that were 40 runs or more. Now that is some consistent form.

[Edited on 29-9-2003 by Arnab]

[Edited on 29-9-2003 by Arnab]
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