facebook Twitter RSS Feed YouTube StumbleUpon

Home | Forum | Chat | Tours | Articles | Pictures | News | Tools | History | Tourism | Search

 
 


Go Back   BanglaCricket Forum > Cricket > Cricket

Cricket Join fellow Tigers fans to discuss all things Cricket

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 23, 2013, 05:22 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
Cricket Guru
 
Join Date: July 15, 2007
Location: Australia
Favorite Player: Mike Procter
Posts: 8,264
Default Allan Donald Underrated?

One of the great South African fast bowlers. He averaged in the low 22s, took 330 wickets, 4.6 wickets a match and struck at 47. He was very fast, nicknamed "White Lightening", and liked to intimidate the batsmen. I feel his name doesn't get mentioned enough when we are talking about the fast bowling greats.
__________________
All Time Test XI: 1 Hobbs 2 B.Richards 3 Bradman 4 Pollock 5 V.Richards 6 Sobers 7 Gilchrist 8 Procter 9 Miller 10 Marshall 11 Warne
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old June 23, 2013, 05:32 AM
MohammedC MohammedC is offline
BanglaCricket Staff
 
Join Date: April 15, 2007
Location: Manchester,UK
Favorite Player: bhujee kom
Posts: 22,437

I think people have not seen very young Donald when he used to torment county batsmen. He has definitely lost first 3 prime years of fast bowling IMO because of South African apartheid. He debuted in test cricket aged 25+
__________________
I love Bangladesh cricket and that's why I found BanglaCricket.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old June 23, 2013, 06:55 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
Cricket Guru
 
Join Date: July 15, 2007
Location: Australia
Favorite Player: Mike Procter
Posts: 8,264

Quote:
Originally Posted by MohammedC
I think people have not seen very young Donald when he used to torment county batsmen. He has definitely lost first 3 prime years of fast bowling IMO because of South African apartheid. He debuted in test cricket aged 25+
did a lot of tormenting in test cricket to. for me, no doubt he's one of the top 10 fast bowlers all time, i think he is almost criminally underrated/forgotten.
__________________
All Time Test XI: 1 Hobbs 2 B.Richards 3 Bradman 4 Pollock 5 V.Richards 6 Sobers 7 Gilchrist 8 Procter 9 Miller 10 Marshall 11 Warne
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old June 23, 2013, 12:51 PM
Zeeshan's Avatar
Zeeshan Zeeshan is offline
BC Staff
BC Editorial Team
 
Join Date: March 9, 2008
Posts: 25,327

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
One of the great South African fast bowlers. He averaged in the low 22s, took 330 wickets, 4.6 wickets a match and struck at 47. He was very fast, nicknamed "White Lightening", and liked to intimidate the batsmen. I feel his name doesn't get mentioned enough when we are talking about the fast bowling greats.
may be, just may be, because there is a reason
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old June 23, 2013, 06:08 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
Cricket Guru
 
Join Date: July 15, 2007
Location: Australia
Favorite Player: Mike Procter
Posts: 8,264

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeshan
may be, just may be, because there is a reason
and what reason may that be? plenty of fast bowlers liked to intimidate, all of the west indian crew in the 70s/80s/90s, lillee, thomson, procter.
__________________
All Time Test XI: 1 Hobbs 2 B.Richards 3 Bradman 4 Pollock 5 V.Richards 6 Sobers 7 Gilchrist 8 Procter 9 Miller 10 Marshall 11 Warne

Last edited by Gowza; June 24, 2013 at 05:20 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old June 24, 2013, 04:24 AM
sum_1's Avatar
sum_1 sum_1 is offline
First Class Cricketer
 
Join Date: April 17, 2013
Location: City of Joy :)
Favorite Player: Men in Blue
Posts: 471

I don't think he's underrated. He gets quite a lot of respect as being one of the best bowlers in world cricket, and deservingly so. If anything, its his then partner Fanie de Villiers who is somewhat underrated. I remember him causing more trouble to the batsmen than Donald in many occasions.
__________________
You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there will always be someone who hates peaches.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old June 24, 2013, 05:09 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
Cricket Guru
 
Join Date: July 15, 2007
Location: Australia
Favorite Player: Mike Procter
Posts: 8,264

Quote:
Originally Posted by sum_1
I don't think he's underrated. He gets quite a lot of respect as being one of the best bowlers in world cricket, and deservingly so. If anything, its his then partner Fanie de Villiers who is somewhat underrated. I remember him causing more trouble to the batsmen than Donald in many occasions.
yeah fanie is underrrated, imo both names get missed to often in discussions about fast bowlers. i'm not saying donald doesn't get a lot of respect but for his ability and the numbers he put out his name doesn't get mentioned very often when talking about the best fast bowlers. not many can match his record. how many fast bowlers have 300+ test wickets striking at under 50? not that many. there's marshall, waqar, steyn and then donald, trueman also has 300+ (307) and strikes under 50 (49.4). also only 5 players to take 300+ wickets have a better average: mcgrath, ambrose, marshall, willis, trueman. of those 7 players i just mentioned only marshall and steyn equal or better the number of wickets taken per test match (trueman is very close, if you take it to one decimal point then trueman equals donald). he averages above 30 in only 1 country (32.38 in pakistan).

his numbers put him in a very select group and although he does get a lot of respect, it doesn't seem like enough. i'm not saying he is THE best, but he certainly deserves to be mentioned as a contender for the top 5 greatest fast bowlers ever.
__________________
All Time Test XI: 1 Hobbs 2 B.Richards 3 Bradman 4 Pollock 5 V.Richards 6 Sobers 7 Gilchrist 8 Procter 9 Miller 10 Marshall 11 Warne
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old July 2, 2013, 11:02 AM
Puck's Avatar
Puck Puck is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: June 12, 2007
Location: Yonder
Favorite Player: Me
Posts: 2,103

I saw a lot of Donald when he was a young tearaway fastbowler in Warwickshire. In the early 90s he was thought of in the same league as Waqar Younis, who played for Surrey. Although, Donald served Warwishire for many years as the overseas player. Sadly, when the county team came to my school for a charity event Donald was out of the country.
__________________
'immerse your soul in love' - thom yorke
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old July 2, 2013, 05:54 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
Cricket Guru
 
Join Date: July 15, 2007
Location: Australia
Favorite Player: Mike Procter
Posts: 8,264

waqar was at his best in the 90s (that was his peak and a lot say at his peak he was the best ever) so for donald to be considered in the same league is quite something.
__________________
All Time Test XI: 1 Hobbs 2 B.Richards 3 Bradman 4 Pollock 5 V.Richards 6 Sobers 7 Gilchrist 8 Procter 9 Miller 10 Marshall 11 Warne
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old July 2, 2013, 06:42 PM
Puck's Avatar
Puck Puck is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: June 12, 2007
Location: Yonder
Favorite Player: Me
Posts: 2,103

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
waqar was at his best in the 90s (that was his peak and a lot say at his peak he was the best ever) so for donald to be considered in the same league is quite something.
I am only giving you my personal opinion having seen the both of them at county and test level, as well as on television. Waqar was a terror in the 90s as you say. To most of the Pakistani friends I had, he was such a source of pride. There was a lot of goodwill towards South Africa in that era and I wonder if the aggression of Donald got lost in that somewhat.

In my humble opinion, the best bowlers always tend to be most devastating as a pair. Waqar had a major advantage here. The Pakistani attack of Waqar, Wasim and ably supported by the likes of Mushtaq and Aqib Javed won a lot of matches by playing attacking cricket. The South African team of the era was one for displined hostility, superb fielding and always there to grind out a result.

At county level, other than when Bian Lara played, Warwickshire has not been a fancied county team throughout the last 30 years. Waqar played in a Surrey team that had a lot of recognised batting talent playing alongside him. Waqar was perhaps a marginally better bowler, slightly better batsman than Donald, but he also played alongside more glamorous players.
__________________
'immerse your soul in love' - thom yorke
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old July 2, 2013, 10:08 PM
Zeeshan's Avatar
Zeeshan Zeeshan is offline
BC Staff
BC Editorial Team
 
Join Date: March 9, 2008
Posts: 25,327

Allan McDonald er cheyeo agey chilo amader shoboy Brian MacMillian, Fanie De Villers, Shaun Pollock, Lance Klusener.. fatafadi fast bowler.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old July 3, 2013, 02:55 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
Cricket Guru
 
Join Date: July 15, 2007
Location: Australia
Favorite Player: Mike Procter
Posts: 8,264

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck
I am only giving you my personal opinion having seen the both of them at county and test level, as well as on television. Waqar was a terror in the 90s as you say. To most of the Pakistani friends I had, he was such a source of pride. There was a lot of goodwill towards South Africa in that era and I wonder if the aggression of Donald got lost in that somewhat.

In my humble opinion, the best bowlers always tend to be most devastating as a pair. Waqar had a major advantage here. The Pakistani attack of Waqar, Wasim and ably supported by the likes of Mushtaq and Aqib Javed won a lot of matches by playing attacking cricket. The South African team of the era was one for displined hostility, superb fielding and always there to grind out a result.

At county level, other than when Bian Lara played, Warwickshire has not been a fancied county team throughout the last 30 years. Waqar played in a Surrey team that had a lot of recognised batting talent playing alongside him. Waqar was perhaps a marginally better bowler, slightly better batsman than Donald, but he also played alongside more glamorous players.
possibly at peak waqar was better but unfortunately injuries influenced his career and possibly robbed us of an even better waqar. the thing about waqar is that he had a short peak but he also has some big flaws in his record against certain opposition in certain countries. donald was the better over the course of their entire careers imo, in fact i believe donald isn't given quite enough recognition for what he did achieve.
__________________
All Time Test XI: 1 Hobbs 2 B.Richards 3 Bradman 4 Pollock 5 V.Richards 6 Sobers 7 Gilchrist 8 Procter 9 Miller 10 Marshall 11 Warne
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old July 19, 2013, 09:39 AM
ammark's Avatar
ammark ammark is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 17, 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 6,070

Being in Australia without cable tv certainly limits my exposure and grasp of current world cricket. I wouldn't be surprised if the general mood here in Aus tends to underrate overseas players. For instance, I rate the current England team VERY highly, since before the Test series vs BD. But speaking to a few of my friends in Melbourne, it sounds like they dont think highly of the Poms as much.


On-topic: Donald was not underrated when he was playing. That South African team was the best team at the time because of people like Gary Kirsten, Lance Klusener, Shaun Pollock, Allan Donald, Jonty Rhodes, Jacques Kallis et all. Allan Donald broke plenty of flimsy stumps with his 'express' deliveries.

and really nice to see you again, Puck
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old July 19, 2013, 05:10 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
Cricket Guru
 
Join Date: July 15, 2007
Location: Australia
Favorite Player: Mike Procter
Posts: 8,264

Quote:
Originally Posted by ammark
Being in Australia without cable tv certainly limits my exposure and grasp of current world cricket. I wouldn't be surprised if the general mood here in Aus tends to underrate overseas players. For instance, I rate the current England team VERY highly, since before the Test series vs BD. But speaking to a few of my friends in Melbourne, it sounds like they dont think highly of the Poms as much.


On-topic: Donald was not underrated when he was playing. That South African team was the best team at the time because of people like Gary Kirsten, Lance Klusener, Shaun Pollock, Allan Donald, Jonty Rhodes, Jacques Kallis et all. Allan Donald broke plenty of flimsy stumps with his 'express' deliveries.

and really nice to see you again, Puck
maybe not underrated during his playing time but certainly now he is, when you look at the numbers and what he actually achieved he's right up there in the top 10 all time and arguably the top 5 yet he's not even mentioned when talking about an all time XI or making top 5/10 lists.
__________________
All Time Test XI: 1 Hobbs 2 B.Richards 3 Bradman 4 Pollock 5 V.Richards 6 Sobers 7 Gilchrist 8 Procter 9 Miller 10 Marshall 11 Warne
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old July 19, 2013, 08:32 PM
ammark's Avatar
ammark ammark is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 17, 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 6,070

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
maybe not underrated during his playing time but certainly now he is, when you look at the numbers and what he actually achieved he's right up there in the top 10 all time and arguably the top 5 yet he's not even mentioned when talking about an all time XI or making top 5/10 lists.
Sounds like its a matter of him advertising himself to get back in the popularity charts. Maybe he should take up commentating. Frankly when I started understanding and following cricket in the 90s as a 13 year old, I wouldnt have known much about players like Ravi Shastri, Srinivas Venkataraghavan, Tony Greig, or even Michael Holding maybe. Them commentating or being on screen in a match all the time after their retirement brings to the forefront so much of their past. For that matter we dont talk about Colin Cowdrey, Abdul Qadir or Andy Roberts much do we?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old July 19, 2013, 08:47 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
Cricket Guru
 
Join Date: July 15, 2007
Location: Australia
Favorite Player: Mike Procter
Posts: 8,264

Quote:
Originally Posted by ammark
Sounds like its a matter of him advertising himself to get back in the popularity charts. Maybe he should take up commentating. Frankly when I started understanding and following cricket in the 90s as a 13 year old, I wouldnt have known much about players like Ravi Shastri, Srinivas Venkataraghavan, Tony Greig, or even Michael Holding maybe. Them commentating or being on screen in a match all the time after their retirement brings to the forefront so much of their past. For that matter we dont talk about Colin Cowdrey, Abdul Qadir or Andy Roberts much do we?
that's true we don't talk about those players much though i'd expect over in the england that cowdrey is talked about more often. but the difference between abdul qadir, andy roberts and even colin cowdrey is that they're stats don't match up with the top echelon of greats, donald's do, not only on a basic level but at an in depth level to.

qadir was one of the great leggies but he's not in the league of other top spinners like warne, murali, o'reilly, grimmett etc. same for cowdrey, isn't at that top echelon, although still a very well respected batsman and also andy roberts. actually andy roberts is one of my favourite fast bowlers of all time, it's true we don't talk about him very often (though i'm always thinking of him) but it's understandable he isn't at the forefront as his stats don't stack up with other greats. same with walsh, one of my all time favourite fast bowlers but just didn't have the same sort of output to match it with the very top echelon greats.

donald however has very comparable stats to any of the greats.
__________________
All Time Test XI: 1 Hobbs 2 B.Richards 3 Bradman 4 Pollock 5 V.Richards 6 Sobers 7 Gilchrist 8 Procter 9 Miller 10 Marshall 11 Warne
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
BanglaCricket.com
 

About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Partner Sites | Useful Links | Banners |

© BanglaCricket