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  #51  
Old August 28, 2014, 09:42 PM
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Zeeshan Zeeshan is offline
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You guys are acting as if "win" happens at will. You follow certain recipe and then all of a sudden wham! a win is cooked up. No one likes to lose. Many factors need to be tweaked and we cannot be world beater overnight.

This is the problem with "learn SQL in 24 hours" type crowd and mentality. Gone are the days when slow process was preferred, focus was on the journey not the destination, and when finally everything would curdle and gel, the satisfaction of victory would be more so satisfying.

Give them time. We are talking "MIGHTY" West Indies ffs. Enjoy the journey. If we won all the matches all of sudden then there would be no uncertainty.
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  #52  
Old August 28, 2014, 09:47 PM
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Jadukor Jadukor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeesh
@Reyme if Hathurusingha kills a fly you ll criticize him and call him a terrible coach.

.
I am glad someone else notices this. You can get a fair idea who is not terrible as a coach from his past posts as well.
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  #53  
Old August 28, 2014, 09:49 PM
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I don't care if I am rehashing it. Sue me.

Quote:
A young boy traveled across Japan to the school of a famous Martial artist. When he arrived at the Dojo he was given an audience by the Master.
"What do you wish from me?" the Master asked.
"I wish to be your student and become the finest Karate-ka in the land," the boy replied "How long must I study?"
"Ten years at least" answered the Master
"Ten years is a long time," said the boy. "What if I studied twice as hard as all your other students?"
"Twenty years" replied the Master
"Twenty years!" "What if I practice day and night with all my effort?" the boy said
"Thirty years," was the Masters reply
"How is it that each time I say I will work harder, you tell me that it will take longer?" the boy asked.
"The answer is clear. When one eye is fixed upon your destination, there is only one eye left with which to find the way."
~ Text from: Zen and the Martial Arts (1979 edition)
by Joe Hyams
http://www.genshinkidojo.com/readings/readingspage.html
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  #54  
Old August 29, 2014, 01:22 AM
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@zee: Just to clarify my complaint isn't about nagging because that, i do as well. We all have our likes and dislikes and sometimes it goes over the top during periods where we are losing and player x or y is scoring ducks. At the end of the day i trust that BCites say stuff which they believe to be the case but not to push an agenda for somebody else. My issue in this instance is not about criticism of Haturi.. but the trend of targeting every new coach (including A team coaches) except for one individual. Perhaps I am mistaken but it is just my opinion.
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  #55  
Old August 29, 2014, 01:51 AM
jeesh jeesh is offline
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Our cricketers should be pleased not to have a coach like Mangongo.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/zimbabwe...ry/774773.html
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  #56  
Old August 29, 2014, 08:48 AM
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reyme reyme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
I am glad someone else notices this. You can get a fair idea who is not terrible as a coach from his past posts as well.
Here is a list of successful coaches in Bangladesh:

Eddie Barlow
Gordon Greenidge
Dav Whatmore
Richard McInnes
Allister De Winter
Jamie Siddons (batting only)
Ian Pont
Julien Fountain
Saqlain mushtaq
Law

If someone is a good coach, everyone notices.

I am not biased towards any coach or don't have anything against any coach.
Just like you, I want the very best coach for our team who can get the best of our team.
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  #57  
Old August 29, 2014, 09:06 AM
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If Our new head coach is so good then why no other test or associate team approached him to be their head coach? Why he did not find any team in IPL, big bash or county team?

It's not anything against him. Do understand gameplan, team selection,
batting order, bowling rotation, basic field setup according to game situation,
change in gameplan according to the situation, captaincy guidance are all head
Coaches job. We saw serious flaws in such areas in the last 3 games. He was also with the team in India series.

Just like it takes time, experience and hard work to be a good player, same applies to a coach as well.

It will take at least 10 years for the new coach to be become a world class head coach.
Every Test Team and even the top associate team should have world class head coach.
Experience is that much valuable. You give team Austria under a very ordinary coach and they will fail too. There is a reason Srilanka did not hire him as a head coach.

How a coach can make a world of difference are evident in many teams. A good experienced coach can turn a very ordinary team into a good competitive team.
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  #58  
Old August 29, 2014, 09:17 AM
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I won't be too critical of him yet. He has good credentials and coached a very good team in AUS (NSW I believe). Now that is not an easy achievement in AUS for an Asian coach. Yes he is not Kirsten or Flower but these coaches won't come and coach BD. IPL coaches are a different story. Stephen Fleming is a head coach there with very little coaching experience while Mumbai Indians gets all John Wright, Robin Singh, Jonty Rhodes, and Anil Kumble. Its all name and glitz in IPL.

He joined the team when it was already in very bad shape. Only Mushy, Mash, and Shakib were the confirmed players and all the rest had a question mark in front of them, yes even Tamim. Now take Shakib out of the equation and its very hard to fill a player like him. So results will take time.

A far fetched example, but Louis Van Gaal isn't doing anything extraordinary with Man U as well even though they all call him master tactician and he took a team to WC semifinal only last month.

All being said, his team selection was poor in the ODI series. 4 openers with no one in form is a bit excessive. Then keeping Gazi and dropping Taskin, when seamers were doing well, was a mistake too.
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  #59  
Old August 29, 2014, 09:27 AM
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@ reyme.. he was involved in big bash. You probably didn't read this..
http://www.espncricinfo.com/page2/co...ry/744091.html
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  #60  
Old August 29, 2014, 01:43 PM
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@reyme you need to do a bit more research. Clearly you dont have much idea about Hathurusingha's experience/cicrumstances, which is why in another post you were talking about a 35K USD salary or why he isnt coaching a Big Bash team or why he wanst picked by Sri Lanka.

Some of the so called successful coaches you mention also joined us with little experience. Like Stuart Law was only an assistant coach of Sri Lanka-that was his only coaching credential.

Any way no point justifying anything to you because your mind seems set. Hathurusingha's nationality, name etc puts him at an automatic disadvantage amongst certain people, irrespective of his knowledge and ability.

And also dont forget not all the good coaches are not interested in the Bangladesh job. With the money they recieve from IPL and other franchise competitions, the notoriety of BCB the best no longer will want to take up the challenge of coaching us. But i do give BCB a lot of credit for identifying the current coach, deviating from their usual Australian targets, and being able convince him to leave a more lucrative job in Australia for our team.
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  #61  
Old August 29, 2014, 03:36 PM
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Idk why some people are jumping the gun on Hataru after only one series. Like someone said before, when Law took over his first assignment was against Zim where we lost the ODI series and drew the test and a lot of people here were calling for his head (especially after the mauling in the first test).
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  #62  
Old August 29, 2014, 06:51 PM
affan_ayan affan_ayan is offline
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mufi_02:
Smart feedback.

Points to ponder:
- our players are already at the nadir in terms of form
- wih shakib we lost two of our best players - best bowler, best batsman
- opponent used to invest heavily on planning for Shakib, mushy, muminul, tamim could escape the main scruitiny
- shamsur rahman did really well in all three format, look at his stats prior to haturasing. we only knew he is jharu batsman and wont last against quality bowling, especially in foreign condition
- coach now had a better idea of some of the players, he will have even better idea of the team after the test series
- we should judge coach after Zimb series
- haturasing used to be one of the ideal openning batsman for SL test team over the years. he is stat may not exactly tell is effect in SL team, he used to score around 22 consistently with more than 120 balls, making the opponent bowlers tired, like an ideal job of the opener
- in the subcontinent, SL players are reputed for giving always more than 120% consistently and the best one to use limited resource for maximum output
-being success in australian environment, would tell you how serious he is for his job
-he seems to be like Stuart Law, a very strict coach, we need one due to BD superstar worshiping environment created by Jamie Siddons, Jurgensen..
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  #63  
Old August 30, 2014, 11:00 PM
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****! You guys couldn't even wait till ONE full tour under the new coach before calling for his head, for problems that have been going on since last year?? These are life long attitude problems. He's supposed to fix the team under 30 days? Even some of the so called "senior" members couldn't help but jump the gun with these noobs! Shows the level of knowledge in this forum. It's at a all time low since I've been here. Where are the intelligent posters? No wonder it's so inactive now. Suits this team and this era we're going through.
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  #64  
Old August 31, 2014, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilscoop
****! You guys couldn't even wait till ONE full tour under the new coach before calling for his head, for problems that have been going on since last year?? These are life long attitude problems. He's supposed to fix the team under 30 days? Even some of the so called "senior" members couldn't help but jump the gun with these noobs! Shows the level of knowledge in this forum. It's at a all time low since I've been here. Where are the intelligent posters? No wonder it's so inactive now. Suits this team and this era we're going through.
Well said. This isnt a problem thats going to be fixed within a fortnight. Personally, I wouldnt even mind if the Zim series dosent go as per 'expectation' if the players show signs of getting back to form. For instance, it was refreshing to watch Nasir get some runs under his belt yesterday, Tamim gradually getting a good start in the ODI series, the fast bowling having a plan and doing well (something that is of paramount importance in the upcoming WC). All that matters to me is how we do downunder next year. If we suck, then I will join the bandwagon to call for Hammer's head too. But not now.

Theres a saying - 'the darker the night gets, the closer the dawn arrives'. We just need to have some patience.
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  #65  
Old August 31, 2014, 02:34 AM
jeesh jeesh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilscoop
****! You guys couldn't even wait till ONE full tour under the new coach before calling for his head, for problems that have been going on since last year?? These are life long attitude problems. He's supposed to fix the team under 30 days? Even some of the so called "senior" members couldn't help but jump the gun with these noobs! Shows the level of knowledge in this forum. It's at a all time low since I've been here. Where are the intelligent posters? No wonder it's so inactive now. Suits this team and this era we're going through.
Two thumbs up!

I wanted to point this out earlier. Coaching staff (Past and current) do frequent these forums from time to time. Wonder how they would feel when reading such knee jerk and sometimes baseless talk.

But having said that i think a strong majority here are behind the coaching unit and accept and understand change requires time, thus patience is essential instead of expecting quick success.

Lol, just see the situation of Louis van Gaal. I am sure David Moyes is laughing somewhere out there.
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  #66  
Old August 31, 2014, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reyme
Looks like he is slowly stamping his authority. He already got the coaching staff he wanted from BCB, well almost. Things are looking lot more under control so far which is a good sign.
Take a look at my first post in this thread, and you can see I was one of the first one showed support for the head coach! Me, Mufi or Sohel, none of us called for his head!
No one! But it does not mean we cant criticize the coach if we know and see clear evidence of his shortcomings.

1. It is known for ages WI are weak against SLA and Leggie and history supports that fact.
Yet we did not have any specialist SLA and Leggie in our team 15. Don't just blame the selectors since they consult the head coach for picking top 15.

2. The selected 15 lacked a variations, which prompted coach playing 4 openers and out of form or part time SLA that did not work out at all! You all saw that!

3. The captaincy sucked as usual, and you must know captaincy is the direct reflection
of head coaches gameplan, bowling rotation and field setup. Captain is out there to implement head coaches plan and instruction. While watching the matches I saw minimal proactiveness.

4. Poor body language and lacking of alertness of several players on the field implies lack of team spirit and effective motivation from the head coach.

5. No sign of smart homework about opposition team batsmen weakness and bowl accordingly! Clear evidence of lack of hard work finding opposition teams weakness and prepare game plan accordingly, picking up right blowing combination or variation and have a plan B or backup options. If you are a coach who needs to learn after the match is over, then you are not experienced enough to lead a Test Team.

6. His annual salary of 300K per year has been widely discussed in this forum. Even prothom alo hinted his salary was inline or higher than Law. Then there are benefits like paid accommodation, travel expense plus winning bonus etc. easily sums up close to 35K per month.

7. Okay he coached a team in big bash. It's not that he won any international championship.

8. He should have handled the shakib situation a lot more efficiently so Shakib could play by paying large sum of fines. Many star players from India, Pakistan or England got to play even after so many incidents. Does not mean we would do wonders, but accordingly to mushy players are scared and worried for their spots etc. throwing the best player under the bus when the team lacks handful of quality players is worrisome for the team like ours.

It's not about his salary or the team he coached. It's about the experience he is lacking to be a successful Test Team coach. When Dav Whatmore was the coach he had a much weaker sets of players and we all saw how efficiently he build up the team and protected his players in front of the media! Just read his post match interviews.

Bottom line, we don't play under 19 players in the test team and then give them 10 years to learn by playing top international sides and then expect them to win. Rather we place the most experienced and best players in the test team. I hope by now you got the point.
For those who think we can't get better coaches should recall coached like Pont, Siddons were more than happy to re join the team.

I hope our new head coach pick things up quick as we really need to get out act together specially in captaincy, game plan, team selection etc. he is our head coach and we should stand by him. But if he makes mistakes we should be able to point those out too, just like what we do about our players.
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  #67  
Old September 1, 2014, 05:43 AM
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I'd like to go on record and say that any coach who ignores the match-winning greatness of Mohammad Nazimuddin deserves the consequential losses. Nazimuddin didn't even play in most of the matches we lost. Hasbaristas of the world, UNITE!
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  #68  
Old September 1, 2014, 05:52 AM
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They are not in shape and the fielding has gone down the drain. Our players need a kick up the backside, and I think the current coach can do this.
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  #69  
Old September 2, 2014, 08:54 AM
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@ Reyme

1) By now you should know the system. Bangladeshi selectors are gods, they dont listen to anyone. It took David Whatmore a couple of years to prove that he should have a say in selection. And selectors not only choose the final squad, they also have a say in the final eleven which is why one of them is in the touring party.
2) Agree this should have never been the batting order.
3) This is the difference between football and cricket. In football a manager is the conductor of the orchestra. In cricket, no matter how much of instructions, plans a coach has, how many time he sends 12th man with drinks and a message, nothing will improve unless Mushfiq learns the art of war, and how to inspire his players.
4) I thought there was much more zeal and intent from the players compared to Asia Cup, WT20 and India.
5) Easier said than done. Right now the coaching unit are still learning about our own players-thats their primary homework imo. Remember its been just a couple of months. Do remember the Stuart Law example. Better than the coaches learn our guys strengths and weaknesses and optimize those first before thinking about opposition.
6) Your theory about a 35K USD salary is flawed. He's just earning more than Jurgensen. Use common sense, thats what BCB probably pays several coaches. Very few cricket boards in the world have the ability to pay such a lofty amount to an individual coach. Even PCB was paying 18K to Whatmore.
7) Lol not going to comment on that
8) This is debatable. As an employee of BCB, Hathurusingha was obligated to report this to BCB. But what happened after was the decision of BCB not Hathurusingha.

I will end the debate here, because obviously you ve made up your mind. But do know we are no longer in the era where we recruited Dav Whatmore. Even Mick Newell who was third or fourth choice for the England job refused to come here. See how Sri Lanka had to settle with an unfancied Paul Farbrace who now is Englands assistant coach. We would be wrong to expect winning coaches like Moody or Flower or Kirsten join our team. This is an era where only a Mark Greatbatch or Dermot Reeves. In fact even Michael Bevan agreed to coach Bangladesh at 30KUSD and he only wanted to be in Bangladesh before tours. Thats how it will be now. See i am happy we have such a capable person in Hathurusingha, Streak, Halsall etc. Lets hope they take us to the next level. If we all have the patience and faith in them-they will.
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