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  #26  
Old October 9, 2014, 12:23 PM
Shubho Shubho is offline
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I remain of the view that we should hold EVERYONE accountable, even the players.

Given our population, as well as the cricket facilities/infrastructure available in Bangladesh, we should be head and shoulders above Zimbabwe, Afghanistan, Hong Kong, Ireland, Netherlands, etc. But we are not. In fact, we have lost to these teams on home soil more than once. I believe the players are culpable.

Ian Pont has often mentioned that most national team players have failed to seek out the coaching staff for advice or to put in extra net sessions or to work out at the gym or to eat right. I mean this is just basic. It's Self Improvement 101. Do people really need to be taught this stuff ?

I don't like this attitude of just blaming everything on the government or administrators. It's too easy...and not entirely accurate.

Plus, why should the players be absolved of all blame? They are well-paid professionals who must be held to account for their performances. I don't understand this "gorib-manush-chhaira-den" mentality with respect to our cricketers.
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  #27  
Old October 9, 2014, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubho
I remain of the view that we should hold EVERYONE accountable, even the players.

Given our population, as well as the cricket facilities/infrastructure available in Bangladesh, we should be head and shoulders above Zimbabwe, Afghanistan, Hong Kong, Ireland, Netherlands, etc. But we are not. In fact, we have lost to these teams on home soil more than once. I believe the players are culpable.

Ian Pont has often mentioned that most national team players have failed to seek out the coaching staff for advice or to put in extra net sessions or to work out at the gym or to eat right. I mean this is just basic. It's Self Improvement 101. Do people really need to be taught this stuff ?

I don't like this attitude of just blaming everything on the government or administrators. It's too easy...and not entirely accurate.

Plus, why should the players be absolved of all blame? They are well-paid professionals who must be held to account for their performances. I don't understand this "gorib-manush-chhaira-den" mentality with respect to our cricketers.


Could not have said it better myself. I had a similar thread few weeks ago. While it is true that our board is dysfunctional at many levels, but blaming it on all the board is foolish. The players need to take responsibility.

Yes we don't have top class domestics like Eng/Aus/SA. That's why we don't expect to win against them. No fans even dare to dream about winning WC. But at the very least, we expect to win regularly against minnows and win occasional games/be competitive against G8 teams. But the reality is, we lose to every team now.

What more infrastructure/gym/coaching facilities do you need to beat Afg and HK? We can't even win a single match against India's C team, yes in our own home. Heck, we even get bowled out below 100. Okay bad day happens. But then again bowled out cheaply by WI and get completely whitewashed.

BCB is not be blamed for all these failures. They hired full and competent coaching staff, gym and training facilities at Mirpur is world class, players are paid extremely well in BD standards. Now just man up and perform!!
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  #28  
Old October 9, 2014, 06:09 PM
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reyme reyme is offline
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Making stupid silly mistakes over and over, before the match even begins, should also be taken in consideration. Often after winning a toss we do the exact opposite what we are actually suppose to do, even in our own home soil! On a batting friendly wicket and with minimal pace attack we end up choosing bowl first. And after getting slammed in couple of overs the captain quickly brings in the spinners! After watching cricket for so many years I cant find a single captain who lacks this much common sense. And the head coach just sits idle and let all this happen right in front of very eyes, as if he has absolutely nothing to say! What kind of coaches are these?

Proper Team selection based on opposition strength/weakness rarely happens. Wrong bowling rotation, ultra defensive field setup became our habit. Bowlers have no idea how to attack certain opposition batsmen, while the opposing team bowlers know exactly what are weaknesses our certain batsmen have. They seem to figure this out instantly. We have a computer analyst who I don't know what really does.

Out of form players getting a free pass for way too long became part of our culture. National team became getting form back for several players.

In our culture, we are used to be spoon fed. A 30 year old man, don't mind staying with his parents and the maids takes care of everything. Teachers force the students to study to pass an exam. Unfortunately this is our culture. We need to be spoon-fed and hand held for little things. But I agree, at the highest level, being proactive is expected. And that's why you need a motivational hands on coach and leader. Thats why Whatmore was able to bring something out of nothing. Thast why the minimal success we had was under Siddons and Pont. Players were disciplined under McInnes, since he knew how to drive them.

Blame it all we want to BCB. But we need to get the basics right before the match begins. And that starts with everything I mentioned above.
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  #29  
Old October 9, 2014, 06:10 PM
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reyme reyme is offline
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What I meant to say is if we don't get the basics right, then team comprised of legends like Tendulkar, Ponting, Afridi, Gayle, Murali, Sanga, KP or whoever will be so frustrated like playing under Mushy, are bound to lose it all at some point eventually.
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  #30  
Old October 10, 2014, 12:16 AM
jeesh jeesh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mafizraju
West Indies and Pakistan are bad comparison. Both have deep cricketing history. However the result of their board's ineptitude translates into the current crisis. And neither are in very good shape.

We tend to ignore the informal structure that exist in the country. The fact that both pakistan and westindies still producing players, are solely due to their informal structure. Their domestic cricket competition is still much better than ours.

Zimbabwe produced great players when their structure were in better shape. If you notice that Zimbabwean team largely is composed of same group of players they had ten years ago. That is good in terms of performance on the field. But it also tells us how short they are in new talents who would do better than the one he is replacing ( this is not too different than ours). Zimbabwe has not produced a single really world class player (who can get in to most teams of the world) since Flower brothers.

Now Srilankan case is interesting. Srilankan cricket structure still much superior than ours. In 1996 they were a surprise. That was they took the world by surprise with strategy and depth in the talents. That team was hugely dependent on Sanath Jayasuria, Arvind De Silva, and Ranatunga. We have not produced a single player of that quality. With the retirement of the senior players, Srilanka struggled for a bit (they got knocked out from first stage in 1999). They started to play better as the newer groups of players started to perform.

It seems to me that my conclusion stands. That we simply do not have infrastructure to consistently produce world class players. Blaming players' commitment is simply futile and completely misplaced.
Both sides are true, yes structure needs massive improvement. But on the other hand the 14-15 players that we have dont make best use of their talent or ability. They simply lack the passion, dedication, commitment required from a modern top level sportsman.

If you come and see Sri Lankan system, maybe only the school system is significantly better. Domestic cricket is good but not great. Facilities, coaches, money, stadiums you cant say they are significantly better.

It might sound harsh but intelligence and intellect makes a big difference. Consider the example of Abdur Razzak and Herath. While Razzak is going from bad to worse, Herath despite all the grey hair and so close to retirement age is trying to develop newer deliveries. Sanga, Mahela, Mathews, Dilshan, Malinga, Kulasekera all terrific thinkers. They apply themselves extremely well, sometimes even better than Indians and Pakistani's and hence their success in international cricket.

And even those Bangladeshis who are shrewd and intelligent they are not consistent or responsible. Simple check Shakib's record in the last few years. These days he comes to the crease and dances down the wicket from the first delivery. I think close to half of his dismissals are getting caught, most of these are miscued, reckless shots. If Shakib placed value on his wicket, batted with more intent say like Sanga does, by now he would have had an average of 45. It saddens me the lad has what it takes to become an all time great, yet he doesnt realize it.
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  #31  
Old October 10, 2014, 01:40 PM
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Intrinsic motivation: Tamim deciding he is too limited in his shots and working endlessly with Salahuddin to improve his leg-side game.
Extrinsic motivation: wanting an IPL contract and sulking because he's not getting picked.
Intrinsic motivation: Shakib as a child deciding he wanted to play in a World Cup and prove himself as one of the best and picking cricket even though his whole family was football crazy
Extrinsic motivation: Arguing with the coach because he wants to spend time on commercials and foreign teams.

Our problem isn't that we don't produce enough people with the hunger or motivation to be champions. Our problem is because we have such a paucity of them, that we make them out to be kings when they are princes. We win a ODI series and players get land plots. Why? They are getting paid to win already aren't they? Instead of our society demanding that Shak & Tik become undoubtedly world class, we were too busy spoiling them when they had just become international class. Absolute adulation corrupts absolutely.
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  #32  
Old October 10, 2014, 01:41 PM
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In other words, while holding the administrators and players accountable, let's not forget that we fans need to look in the mirror as well.
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  #33  
Old October 10, 2014, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazabQ
In other words, while holding the administrators and players accountable, let's not forget that we fans need to look in the mirror as well.
Just by using this message board as an example, Interest in Bangladesh Cricket has slowed down considerably due to how awful (Stagnant) the Cricket has been. Awful is probably a bad word to use, my introduction to Bangladesh Cricket was the 2004 Champions Trophy that was awful .. Still Alot of the fans have been driven away.
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  #34  
Old October 10, 2014, 02:31 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cricman
Just by using this message board as an example, Interest in Bangladesh Cricket has slowed down considerably due to how awful (Stagnant) the Cricket has been. Awful is probably a bad word to use, my introduction to Bangladesh Cricket was the 2004 Champions Trophy that was awful .. Still Alot of the fans have been driven away.
To be fair quality over quantity. Bandwagon fans bring the site quality down. Most of the die hards are still around even if they don't post much. Razab bhai, Beamer bhai posted the other day. We just need to get Doc and Tehsin bhai back. And Rubu bhai. ATMR jumped ship a while ago so he might be a casualty we can't regain. Mijan, Jeesh, Eshen bhais are still here.

My introduction was the 2003 world cup. Nothing can beat that. I was all giddy for month knowing our hellish loosing streak was finally over, and who knows maybe wed get another upset. Instead I woke up to see "Canada bests BD by 60 runs". 120 all out vs Canada, 0-3 against SL...there's nothing worse than that. At least Stuart Binny is a Test cricketer in a country where only 1 in 10 million ppl alive can say so. Who is Arthur Codrington?
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  #35  
Old October 11, 2014, 02:38 AM
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To be honest guys (and you all make excellent points) the ONLY way to get your message across is to not turn up to matches - and stop cheering the players, every edged 4, each wicket..hell even the toss of the coin at the beginning of the match.

Because the fans are so passionate in support, why bother to change anything? If you think about it all the players, staff and board KNOW they will be supported by the fans regardless.

In many sports you get the message across by voting with your feet and staying away from poor games, poorly played.

But I know that everyone will be screaming and shouting from the rooftops as soon as Bangladesh play any match. That makes the fans some of the best in the world - but don't be surprised if big crowds mean supporting the existing regime
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  #36  
Old October 11, 2014, 07:55 AM
BanCricFan BanCricFan is offline
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Viva Bangladesh Cricket!

It never fails to capture the imagination of its followers. In its good days (Eid-ul-Ashdafools) or the baaaad days (the norm). Kirket is the ultimate winner, though (take heed, O money grabing ICC goons!). In their analysis both Shubho and Mafizraju are right. It doesn't have to be a Kierkegaardian "Either/Or". I will attempt to summarize the factors behind our stagnation as a cricket nation (and beyond) here:

1. Institutional corruption (the Board)

2. Unprofessionalism & Mismanagement (incompetent and unqualified personnels)

3. The lack of infrastructure (uncompetitive First Class cricket, sub-standard pitches, lack of qualified specialist coaches, trainers, umpires and curators, planning and vision, centralized and Dhaka-centric)

4. The lack of cricket culture and history (lack of successful ex-cricketers who has "done-it-all" at the highest levels)

5. The lack of cricketing role models and mentors

6. The lack of cricketing knowledge/training, professional attitude and understanding of the cricketers

7. The lack of ambition, goal and vision

8. Our contemporary culture

I would argue almost everything stems from No.8 and, therefore, I could put it right at the top. The prognosis isn't very encouraging and I don't see a quick-fix recovery in the immediate future. We the fan must fasten our seat belts and "enjoy" the long and turbulent flight.
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  #37  
Old October 12, 2014, 04:39 AM
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Sohel Sohel is offline
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^Couldn't agree more. But I would add one more variable to your 8.

9. De facto early retirement by way of marriage.
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  #38  
Old October 12, 2014, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel
^Couldn't agree more. But I would add one more variable to your 8.

9. De facto early retirement by way of marriage.
Yes BCF bhai hit the nails. But 4 and 5 will be solved once the current crop retire. And that will hopefully lead to an answer for #6. #9 is only a problem from fringe players. Tamim's form before marriage and currently is the same: a couple of 4th innings half centuries when a 100 was easily on the cards to keep his average above 35 every series like clockwork. Shakib, Mushy will be different cuz they have competitiveness and work ethic respectively.
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  #39  
Old October 12, 2014, 11:13 AM
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Zeeshan Zeeshan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
To be honest guys (and you all make excellent points) the ONLY way to get your message across is to not turn up to matches - and stop cheering the players, every edged 4, each wicket..hell even the toss of the coin at the beginning of the match.

Because the fans are so passionate in support, why bother to change anything? If you think about it all the players, staff and board KNOW they will be supported by the fans regardless.

In many sports you get the message across by voting with your feet and staying away from poor games, poorly played.

But I know that everyone will be screaming and shouting from the rooftops as soon as Bangladesh play any match. That makes the fans some of the best in the world - but don't be surprised if big crowds mean supporting the existing regime
This is easily the most inane post I have read in a long time. Ipso facto fans are supposed to be liked that. Hence the word 'fan' sort for 'fanatic'. Fans' job is not to construct the board or selection or rectify players. That's coach's job, board's job and players' job.

But then again, your sig sums up where you coming from. I fear the French...
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  #40  
Old October 12, 2014, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
To be honest guys (and you all make excellent points) the ONLY way to get your message across is to not turn up to matches - and stop cheering the players, every edged 4, each wicket..hell even the toss of the coin at the beginning of the match.

Because the fans are so passionate in support, why bother to change anything? If you think about it all the players, staff and board KNOW they will be supported by the fans regardless.

In many sports you get the message across by voting with your feet and staying away from poor games, poorly played.

But I know that everyone will be screaming and shouting from the rooftops as soon as Bangladesh play any match. That makes the fans some of the best in the world - but don't be surprised if big crowds mean supporting the existing regime
That wouldn't work and its unrealistic. If fans pulled out, sponsorship and money would vanish and the BCB would cease existing. Corrupt folk would find some other cash cow but Bangladesh would slip to the status of an Affiliate nation, not even an Associate.
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  #41  
Old October 12, 2014, 01:02 PM
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Rinathq Rinathq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
To be honest guys (and you all make excellent points) the ONLY way to get your message across is to not turn up to matches - and stop cheering the players, every edged 4, each wicket..hell even the toss of the coin at the beginning of the match.

Because the fans are so passionate in support, why bother to change anything? If you think about it all the players, staff and board KNOW they will be supported by the fans regardless.

In many sports you get the message across by voting with your feet and staying away from poor games, poorly played.

But I know that everyone will be screaming and shouting from the rooftops as soon as Bangladesh play any match. That makes the fans some of the best in the world - but don't be surprised if big crowds mean supporting the existing regime
The message you are talking about is sitting in the spam folder at BCB for ages. Its not a voting system where the public can protest and vote to make a difference. At least not in BD. Usually its the senior cricketers who questions the system in most countries. But in our country our senior cricketers are either severely limited in knowledge or too busy trying to suck up to the board in their pursuit to land a post retirement job.
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  #42  
Old October 12, 2014, 02:47 PM
BanCricFan BanCricFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel
^Couldn't agree more. But I would add one more variable to your 8.

9. De facto early retirement by way of marriage.
Gracias hermano. As for numero 9, I see the oppostie. Had Mr. Ashraful Motin married at the right time we would have had little Ashs waiting in the wing by now. Thus, enriching BCB with potential prodigies -minus the fixing talent, of course.

And guys,

I think Ian has a kosher point. Fan needs to wise up and as he said vote with their feet. We have already witnessed empty stands during the India ODIs. If only BCB could afford a visit to the optician!
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