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  #51  
Old March 22, 2015, 04:32 AM
horizon horizon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazabQ
As myself: Really looking forward to you holding yourself to this
Yes, I'm all done.
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  #52  
Old March 22, 2015, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horizon
If PTV is neutral on Indian win, then ICC is more neutral . Why don't we take Dave Richardson's word and move on After all, he's South African.
Did you have a look at the panel? I'm sure you didnt...and reacted on the word PTV ... Pretty typical it's not PTV news
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  #53  
Old March 22, 2015, 04:43 AM
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Yet I count 2 more posts since then? Careful now, you might be getting close to the troll zone
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  #54  
Old March 22, 2015, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horizon
It would have been overturned if reviewed, because it pitched outside leg. And in the condition, they would almost certainly have reviewed.
That wasn't entirely pitched outside leg....that would be given out to bd batsmen without a shadow of doubt.
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  #55  
Old March 22, 2015, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
Did you have a look at the panel? I'm sure you didnt...and reacted on the word PTV ... Pretty typical it's not PTV news
Time to update the signature now, don't you think ?
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  #56  
Old March 22, 2015, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paindu
Time to update the signature now, don't you think ?
Why ? Mission two is an ongoing process, until they achieve it's valid, don't you think so?
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  #57  
Old March 22, 2015, 07:52 AM
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Exactly! Supporting BCCI was a bad decision and now BD cricket team will pay the price for a long time. That also diminished my enthusiasm for the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Don't agree with Neel often but he's right. Even if 90% of the ball landed inside the line its still a marginal decision because of the uncertainty associated with the technology. Rohit no ball was also a marginal call. Dhawan catch was also not clearly touching the ropes.

Yes in theory 1.5 out of 3 50-50 calla should go our way, but we knew coming in no umpire will give Indian batsmen out unless its obvious because BCCI will end their career then and there ala Steve bucknor.

Just BCB backed BCCI hijacking the ICC once our test status was preserved. Must survive rather than look to score idealistic points.

On top of that we lost by 100+ runs. Now were this game decided by 50 runs or less, yes I'd be pissed that India got all the calls in their favor. We lost, get over it and focus on beating them next time. Someone has to lose.
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  #58  
Old March 22, 2015, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rana Melb
That wasn't entirely pitched outside leg....that would be given out to bd batsmen without a shadow of doubt.
Quite possibly!
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  #59  
Old March 22, 2015, 08:10 AM
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Prove of Raina's out!

















rules

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  #60  
Old March 22, 2015, 08:16 AM
Rana Melb Rana Melb is offline
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Interesting discussion about raina's lbw...




  • what is Hawk-Eye needed for? Like the image shows even if we consider the ball to travel in a straight line, which is the extreme case, it's still a long way below the waist.





  • That's not how the stump line is supposed to be drawn according to the rules by the way! The center of the ball has to pitch in line within an area demarcated by a line drawn down the middle of the outer stumps. So I would advice you to not spread misinformation!






    The center of the ball has to be within the pitching area but the pitching area is NOT drawn from the middle of the outer stumps. Just look at the picture again. The flaw is not where the pitching area is drawn w.r.t to stumps overlay but rather the stumps overlay does NOT match the part of the real stumps visible from behind Raina's legs. I hope you are not saying the overlay of the stumps are supposed to be shifted towards the offside like it's seen here?









  • I am saying exactly that, the overlay has to be drawn between the centers of the outer stumps, just as it is in the picture. Rules are rules!






    Let's say you're right. Then why is the off stump not visible behind Raina's leg when the overlay of it extends beyond his front leg? As per you the overlay shows the center of the outer stump, so if the center is supposed to be visible then more than half the stump should have been visible. In reality it's not visible at all. Why? Let me explain why. You're wrong, stumps overlay is supposed to match exactly the real stumps, they don't start/end at centers of outer stumps. Again, I'm talking about stumps overlay, NOT pitching area - don't confuse the two.









    I know you are talking about the overlay, and I am telling you the rules set by ICC for lbw overlay. I just copied and pasted the rule in my first comment. The overlay IS NOT supposed to match the real stumps. And as for your other question, it's a simple optical illusion, draw a line to the off side as one is drawn on the leg side, and you will see theat the line crosses the centre of the off stump! smile emoticon






    First look at the image in my last comment. Then point out exactly what in there is an optical illusion.






  • The off stump question you asked. In any event, the whole argument used in the image is wrong anyway, so I don't see why you don't see that it is a lost cause.






  • It's easy to say something is wrong, a better person is able to tell how it's wrong. I've been doing the latter the whole time, and you the opposite. For the final time, I'm referring to the overlay of the STUMPS, and not pitching are...See More






  • My point wasn't about how the pitching area is drawn in relation to stumps but you still kept bringing that up. So here's an image showing pitching area for a lbw call from PakvAus match. Clearly, in this DRS system pitching area is being drawn from the edges of outer stumps, not center: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAhsxFCVAAESQyr.png:large













  • I understand, and I am not saying what you are saying is illogical. I am saying is that it's not out according to the rules anyway. Any render based on the ball tracking is never a 100% accurate, yet, we have to accept it that way as it is done in tennis. And I am sorry if I couldn't make my point clearer, the one used in the Fox render seems just wrong. And yes, although the stump overlay is shifted to the right a touch, I personally think it's a simple rendering issue. It's not out from a cricketing perspective, or at the very least, too close to call, that's the point.






    And sorry about the initial confusion, ICC refers to the pitching area as "overlay" in the rules so I thought you were talking about that. And your comment was confusing with respect to that. My apologies! smile emoticon





    "overlay" is an English word, it's not a term ICC invented. First check the meaning and then tell me if my use was inappropriate. More importantly, I'm attaching the actual rule that proves you twisted the rule for "impact" and presented that as the rule for "pitching area". I can't believe a Bangladeshi would go to such extent to prove me wrong, even though ICC is at fault here. I'm shocked and utterly disappointed!









  • Tunnel vision does not always stem from Partiality. Sometimes trying too hard to "appear Neutral" or "Stand out from the rest", throws us in that zone. Then we become more of a problem than a cure. tongue emoticon BTW, thanks Zaheed bhai, I got all the evidence packed in a single post here pacman emoticon
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      #61  
    Old March 22, 2015, 08:20 AM
    Ganesh Ganesh is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rana Melb
    That wasn't entirely pitched outside leg....that would be given out to bd batsmen without a shadow of doubt.
    That's not how it works. Unless more than 50% of the ball pitches inside(which wasn't the case) the ball will be considered having pitched outside the leg. So the ball would have been considered pitching outside no matter what, even if it the umpire gave it out. Hence the TV umpire would have overturned.
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      #62  
    Old March 22, 2015, 09:10 AM
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    I think some basic refresher on rules of LBW is required here
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      #63  
    Old March 22, 2015, 09:24 AM
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by horizon
    Watch this PTV match coverage and they are all neutral people.

    You made my day! No further comments
    do watch it.

    jonty rhodes goes (in a deadpan face) "I am not at all upset that India won. unlike you. you sound so upset"
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      #64  
    Old March 22, 2015, 12:42 PM
    horizon horizon is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rana Melb
    Prove of Raina's out!

















    rules

    If you really think ICC is doing some real time tampering of hawk eye, I would recommend you to ask your political leaders to step up and exit from ICC. End of the day no point playing a sport or becoming a part of organization where you question the humans as well as the machines. Bangladesh is a poorer country and should invest in some sports that they can talk about a few decades from now. If DRS is doctored, then Cricket has no future.
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      #65  
    Old March 22, 2015, 10:02 PM
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    When I saw the match, there were two bad decisions, rohit and kayes. When I read match reports later by various media (not PTV ofcourse ) , everyone is saying Rohit one was bad decision. The rest(Raina and Mahmudullah) were not. Its easy to blame others for defeat to lessen one's own guilt(of not playing well).
    Also those who are trying to convince that those weren't bad decisions remember :-
    "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."

    Those who will think that there were many bad decisions, you can do nothing to convince them otherwise.
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      #66  
    Old March 23, 2015, 12:51 PM
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by horizon
    If you really think ICC is doing some real time tampering of hawk eye, I would recommend you to ask your political leaders to step up and exit from ICC. End of the day no point playing a sport or becoming a part of organization where you question the humans as well as the machines. Bangladesh is a poorer country and should invest in some sports that they can talk about a few decades from now. If DRS is doctored, then Cricket has no future.
    For some people that may be the way, but for some people that's not the way they react, they try to fight back. Other wise India would have quit ICC long time ago.

    I am not claiming DRS is doctored, nor am I claiming its not. But if someone claim that it was doctored, leaving ICC may not be their way to fight back, demanding to "clean up ICC" may be their preferred option.
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      #67  
    Old March 23, 2015, 12:57 PM
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    Get over it...
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      #68  
    Old March 23, 2015, 01:32 PM
    horizon horizon is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fazal
    For some people that may be the way, but for some people that's not the way they react, they try to fight back. Other wise India would have quit ICC long time ago.

    I am not claiming DRS is doctored, nor am I claiming its not. But if someone claim that it was doctored, leaving ICC may not be their way to fight back, demanding to "clean up ICC" may be their preferred option.
    I have never seen any ball tracking technology (used in many sports) to be doctored. So if it is really so, then I think it is out of hands. On top of it, 70% of cricket followers are from India and that will remain the same for next few decades. Fixing is ideal but does not sound realistic.

    Anyway, I don't comment on 9/11 conspiracy theories. I'll stop here on the doctored DRS theory.
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      #69  
    Old March 23, 2015, 02:05 PM
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by horizon
    I have never seen any ball tracking technology (used in many sports) to be doctored. So if it is really so, then I think it is out of hands. On top of it, 70% of cricket followers are from India and that will remain the same for next few decades. Fixing is ideal but does not sound realistic.
    Sorry I didn't get it. What it has to do (that we are talking) with Indian cricket fans constitute of 70% of whole cricket fans. With cricket moving to AFG and other parts of the world, I even don't know how much truth in your claim.
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    Old March 23, 2015, 04:14 PM
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fazal
    Sorry I didn't get it. What it has to do (that we are talking) with Indian cricket fans constitute of 70% of whole cricket fans. With cricket moving to AFG and other parts of the world, I even don't know how much truth in your claim.
    70% fans from India meaning BCCI will control cricket for sometime if cricket doesn't make any footprints in China or USA. You can just add the population figures and get to it. It's a sad story to me, but realistic.

    If there's a doctoring of DRS, it won't stop. And international cricket will be out of globe, probably in favor of IPL. Who wants to watch India winning every match? The same way American Football or Baseball is with USA only, cricket will be with India only. Hopefully I won't watch cricket till then.
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      #71  
    Old March 23, 2015, 07:23 PM
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by horizon
    70% fans from India meaning BCCI will control cricket for sometime if cricket doesn't make any footprints in China or USA. You can just add the population figures and get to it. It's a sad story to me, but realistic.
    If I follow your logic, by this time China should be controlling FIFA, but they don't. India had always had this huge fan base (by percentage) , even 20-30 years ago, They were not controlling ICC, actually they were side lined and that's why the need of another Asian vote was so important for India. Population may be one factor, but not all. Its more like "Senate (2 vote per state)" than "House (based on population)" if we compare US government here. So yes India is controlling ICC now, but it was not like that couple of decades ago ( even percentage wise they were always historically high in whole cricket fan base).




    Quote:
    If there's a doctoring of DRS, it won't stop. And international cricket will be out of globe, probably in favor of IPL. Who wants to watch India winning every match? The same way American Football or Baseball is with USA only, cricket will be with India only. Hopefully I won't watch cricket till then.
    Unfortunately, my friend, in my opinion, I am afraid that's the way its going. Instead of moving the game and trying to make more global, ICC is making one right step and two wrong step. its not too far... the big three is going to kill the golden goose by becoming too greedy. When they should expand the world cup team, they are going backward ... they are talking about reducing the teams in WC in future. How that can be a forward thinking idea? How that will help promote this game from regional to all through the world?
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      #72  
    Old March 23, 2015, 11:18 PM
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fazal
    If I follow your logic, by this time China should be controlling FIFA, but they don't. India had always had this huge fan base (by percentage) , even 20-30 years ago, They were not controlling ICC, actually they were side lined and that's why the need of another Asian vote was so important for India. Population may be one factor, but not all. Its more like "Senate (2 vote per state)" than "House (based on population)" if we compare US government here. So yes India is controlling ICC now, but it was not like that couple of decades ago ( even percentage wise they were always historically high in whole cricket fan base).
    China has 70% (or even 30%) of football fans of the world? That's probably not true. A couple of decades ago, majority of Indians were not even consumers, and they didn't even have TV (about the same time actually Indian control started). On the other hand, Aus and Eng were rich countries. So they had upper hand.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fazal
    Unfortunately, my friend, in my opinion, I am afraid that's the way its going. Instead of moving the game and trying to make more global, ICC is making one right step and two wrong step. its not too far... the big three is going to kill the golden goose by becoming too greedy. When they should expand the world cup team, they are going backward ... they are talking about reducing the teams in WC in future. How that can be a forward thinking idea? How that will help promote this game from regional to all through the world?
    ICC is reducing teams in ODI WC but keeping 16 teams in T20 WC. If you go with ODI or Test cricket, it can never be globalized, even with such huge amount of money. So it probably won't hamper globalization. There's another decision that probably will - ICC has decided not to go for an Olympics bid for cricket.

    Quote:
    the big three is going to kill the golden goose by becoming too greedy
    International baseball was killed but did it kill the baseball? One country sports exist and are popular. So they will protect the golden goose, but kill the international sports. Just that I don't like it doesn't mean people don't watch it. But if they do DRS doctoring and stuff, cricket will get de-popularized in India too.
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      #73  
    Old March 24, 2015, 07:34 AM
    Kohli_Sox Kohli_Sox is offline
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    Switching this thread to "Can someone compare Elliott's Six vs Dhoni's" at WC pressure situation because thats what champion cricketers do and win the match dont get excuses for their losses
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      #74  
    Old March 24, 2015, 09:29 AM
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by horizon
    China has 70% (or even 30%) of football fans of the world? That's probably not true. A couple of decades ago, majority of Indians were not even consumers, and they didn't even have TV (about the same time actually Indian control started). On the other hand, Aus and Eng were rich countries. So they had upper hand.
    Can you show me a stat from where you are claiming 70% of cricket fans are Indians?
    You know that you cannot just take the population and claim based on that.. that's wrong stats for the following reasons:

    1. Percentage of people (from the whole population of that country) who watches cricket may be different in different counties like for example literacy rate.

    2. There are plenty of countries, where their team may not be playing cricket at this level, but have cricket fans due to migration over decades from cricket playing nations.


    Quote:

    ICC is reducing teams in ODI WC but keeping 16 teams in T20 WC. If you go with ODI or Test cricket, it can never be globalized, even with such huge amount of money. So it probably won't hamper globalization. There's another decision that probably will - ICC has decided not to go for an Olympics bid for cricket.
    May be test, but I disagree about ODI. To me personally, this is the only format I still love to watch ( TEST too long, T20 do not take it seriously, may be in future, not now)

    For me this WC was more exiting for various reasons and one of them are the performance and the variety that 4 associate teams brought into the WC. True few games were lopsided, but its not ONLY associate teams who are guilty of that, quite a few test playing nations lost to lopsided games. In some of the games these Associate teams played very well against test playing nations. To me, if you are true cricket fans, you must have to appreciate that...what these Cinderella teams brings to the WC. And these greedy ICC executives (controlled by certain boards) are trying to take that away from us... how that can be good fro cricket fans?

    Quote:
    International baseball was killed but did it kill the baseball? One country sports exist and are popular. So they will protect the golden goose, but kill the international sports. Just that I don't like it doesn't mean people don't watch it. But if they do DRS doctoring and stuff, cricket will get de-popularized in India too.
    Baseball is regional like cricket. Not like soccer. To me if you truly love a sports, you want it to be spreaded around the world, globalized. However while each and every sports authority try to expand (global or regional), ICC makes contradictory steps.
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      #75  
    Old March 24, 2015, 11:44 AM
    horizon horizon is offline
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    I don't have any stats. But you can adjust the population by these figures, such as - age, literacy, TV ownership, electricity and everything else. It will come down to similar percentage figure. Migrated population doesn't have that much of number. Of course if I find any freely available studies, I'll paste it here.

    Also, I agree to the points you're making. I neither like ICC steps, nor their effort. However, things don't work as per my wish. This is the game-plan from BCCI for the time being -
    1) Grow IPL popularity
    2) Strangulate International T-20, see T-20 is played much less than ODIs and now the T-20 World cup will also be once in 4 years.
    3) Take the wind out of lesser boards (WI, Zim, SL) - provide them with less money and infrastructure - so that they can't build parallel leagues and international cricket becomes less competitive.

    In 10 years, they will grow IPL to approx 12-14 team event and it will be for over 2 months, i.e. less space for international cricket. NFL and MLB takes place over months.

    There are risks - such as faltering economy or cricket fatigue in India. Either way the probability is less.
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