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  #26  
Old October 20, 2017, 01:00 AM
Mridul Mridul is offline
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have A team tours overseas...if batsmen average 40+ after 10 matches....he can be considered for national team

the issue is we select national team players after couple of good performance in u19 level or hp matches against 2nd XI teams

select players on A team based on domestic performance and not just on talent alone

Sabbir and Soumya's average were never impressive before coming to national team...the fact their average is poor now is not surprising

and we should not restrict players based on age. if Tushar and Naeem are performing consistantly with 40+ average in 1st class matches, give them chance in A team and play them good 7 to 8 matches against top A teams. if they maintain similar average then select them for national team
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  #27  
Old October 20, 2017, 02:02 AM
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Rinathq Rinathq is offline
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83. Why Young Players struggling?

A. They are given the honor of representing the nation when they arent ready for it
B. They are not treated like young players but legendary superstars
C. They are given everything an average honest player works all their life for in no time
D. Improving, Developing skills are not required for their position which come with unlimited lives
E. All of the Above

U take your pick
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  #28  
Old October 20, 2017, 03:58 AM
adamnsu adamnsu is offline
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I think there are a few reasons why many of the youngsters and seniors fail or struggle:

- Lack of professionalism and discipline. They dont work on their short comings and we seem them making the same mistake over and over again.

- Lack of good senior mentors. Even though the likes of Habibul Bashar or Pilot werent amazing players but I think their main value was they would mentor the youngster and keep their egos in check. Now the junior players have become seniors and they themselves dont act mature. Lucky only Mashrafee does a bit of that.

- The fans send them over the moon and they think they have done their job.
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  #29  
Old October 21, 2017, 04:17 PM
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Eshen Eshen is offline
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Couple of years ago, Soumya and Sabbir struggled playing against some regional academy team in SA, while on an A-team tour. It's unrealistic to expect them to improve enough by two years to produce better results against SA national team while playing in SA.

In Whatmore era, it made sense to rush in some young-untested players in the national team as older players were just not cut for the international stage. Coaches after that should have shown more patience with older players, instead of keep squandering investments BCB made on them. If any of current players need to be replaced or given a break, selectors should consider bringing back older player(s). Unfortunately, they have not learnt their lesson yet. Looking at our current A-team, they seem to be preparing to rush in another young immature player such as Shanto or Zakir.
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  #30  
Old October 21, 2017, 04:26 PM
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Shingara Shingara is offline
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So, basicallly the Selectors are at fault and need to be fired
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  #31  
Old October 21, 2017, 04:37 PM
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Eshen Eshen is offline
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^^ Actually, it's politicians like Papon, who is after easy and popular quick fixes, that need to be fired. From the beginning of Hathuru era, Faruque was trying hard to bring some sanity in the process, tried to resist immature selections of Soumya, Sabbir, Jubair, etc. But he never got proper support from the board and had to cave in to Hathuru's demands. Hathuru brought some quick success in WC'15 and afterwards, BCB let him grow in power, so Faruque had to eventually bow out. Now you got a puppet like Nannu in his place.

Unless and until we get someone with a good long term vision as the BCB head, nothing will change.
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  #32  
Old October 21, 2017, 05:25 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Well zakir cetainly isn't ready, shanto might be but perhaps shanto's quick push is because of the desperate need for a number 3 and he's just about the only specialist number 3 in the country who has been scoring consistent runs.

To their credit after his initial one match debut they dropped him and have given him more time and opportunity in different conditions before bringing him back, although some of the opposition were a bit questionable on quality but at least it's a step in the right direction on how to develop a player.

They've massively dropped the ball with players like Naeem, nasir, tasamul and anamul. These players should've been playing A team cricket for the last 4 or 5 years.
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  #33  
Old October 21, 2017, 05:49 PM
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Eshen Eshen is offline
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^^ No objection about Shanto in the A-team. That's where he should be for next 4-5 years. Problem is that we are not getting a proper assessment of his capabilities when he is playing alongside guys like Zakir and AA Jr, who are making him look too good for the A-team/HP team. When he goes back to play for Rajshahi or Northern Zone, he is yet to overshadow his senior colleagues like Junaid or Naeem.
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  #34  
Old October 21, 2017, 06:20 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
^^ No objection about Shanto in the A-team. That's where he should be for next 4-5 years. Problem is that we are not getting a proper assessment of his capabilities when he is playing alongside guys like Zakir and AA Jr, who are making him look too good for the A-team/HP team. When he goes back to play for Rajshahi or Northern Zone, he is yet to overshadow his senior colleagues like Junaid or Naeem.
Shanto was averaging in the 40s in FC cricket until his last few matches, think he's a bit out of form. Actually shanto averages a lot more than junaid. There is a point with Naeem because he's a run machine and has been a run machine for a decade in domestic FC cricket but junaid has only started scoring runs in the last couple of years.

I think when I looked it up shanto hasn't done great in NCL first class cricket but in BCL cricket he has put up pretty big numbers and that's supposed to be the stronger competition.

But don't underestimated the desperation for a specialist number 3. Shanto went through age group cricket as a number 3 and made runs, he for the most part has scored domestic runs mainly as a number 3. In A team cricket they've been batting him at 3 and he's been making decent runs. It's obvious they want him as the number 3 in the national team and we are currently struggling to find someone for that position, that's probably why he's getting these opportunities.

I don't think guys like shanto should be criticised, he's done well, if he gets selected then he earned it. Soumya and Sabbir are immensely talented but they had no numbers backing them for selection.
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  #35  
Old October 21, 2017, 06:32 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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See in the last BCL Naeem averaged in the 80s, scored 575 runs in 9 innings, junaid averages 57 in 9 innings scored 456 runs.

Shanto: averaged 61, scored 368 runs in 7 innings.

Now Naeem was gun and scored 4 tons no half centuries, junaid only scored 1 ton and 1 half century, nazmul scored 2 tons and 0 half centuries. Not that it matters much in this format but shanto's strike rate was up at 58 whilst Naeem was low 40s and junaid just under 50 at 49.

So I guess from that we can see Naeem is ahead, as he should be he is significantly more seasoned. But junaid isn't that far ahead if at all. Naeem doesn't really play much at number 3 these days though does he? I mean junaid is top order so the comparison is a bit easier.

So if they are looking for a number 3 then who to pick? Naeem who has plyed his runs for a decade as a middle to lower order bat or, a top order bat? Got to pick a top order bat usually...who's better out of junaid and shanto? They're about similar, perhaps even shanto might be slightly better and he's younger so if he's better at a younger age...they'd also be thinking junaid had his opportunity and wasn't good enough, maybe he's improved since but he still can't out do this young kid on the up so why give him another chance over this young guy who probably has more potential is doing better than him at the same age and is a specialist number 3 which we need whereas junaid, is he a number 3 or is he an opener? And why after all this seasoning can't he clearly out perform this young guy?

that's what I'd be thinking when comparing these 3.

And actually going back to the 2015/2016 BCL season shanto actually outperformed both Naeem and junaid. Junaid was horrible averaging 22, Naeem 30 and shanto averaged 34 with a century which neither of the others got, and they all played a reasonable amount: Naeem 11 innings, shanto 8, junaid 7.
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  #36  
Old October 21, 2017, 07:23 PM
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Eshen Eshen is offline
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2016/17 FC Stats
2017/18 NCL Stats

2017 DPL Stats

In 2016/17 FC season, Junaid scored 1024 runs at average 60.23. In the current season, he is maintaining average of 55.16. Shanto has not played enough FC matches this season to be judged, but his average last season was 44.22.

In Dhaka premier league this year, Shanto's average was 37.92, whereas Junaid averaged 49.

Based on current form, Junaid seems to be far ahead of Shanto at this point. Yes, I know he was very inconsistent not so long ago, and yes I know domestic forms don't always translate to higher stages. All I am trying to say - Junaid should have been given chances to play side by side with Shanto in the A-team, to see who is better suited to meet the immediate need of national team. But our selectors ensured there is no chance to make that comparison, thus setting up Shanto for another immature drafting in the national team. Nothing against Shanto, what I am trying to say - this is the sort of behaviors that resulted in immature of debut of so many of our youngsters, and that our selectors and BCB bosses never learn from their past mistakes.
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  #37  
Old October 21, 2017, 07:28 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
2016/17 FC Stats
2017/18 NCL Stats

2017 DPL Stats

In 2016/17 FC season, Junaid scored 1024 runs at average 60.23. In the current season, he is maintaining average of 55.16. Shanto has not played enough FC matches this season to be judged, but his average last season was 44.22.

In Dhaka premier league this year, Shanto's average was 37.92, whereas Junaid averaged 49.

Based on current form, Junaid seems to be far ahead of Shanto at this point. Yes, I know he was very inconsistent not so long ago, and yes I know domestic forms don't always translate to higher stages. All I am trying to say - Junaid should have been given chances to play side by side with Shanto in the A-team, to see who is better suited to meet the immediate need of national team. But our selectors ensured there is no chance to make that comparison, thus setting up Shanto for another immature drafting in the national team. Nothing against Shanto, what I am trying to say - this is the sort of behaviors that resulted in immature of debut of so many of our youngsters, and that our selectors and BCB bosses never learn from their past mistakes.
Fair enough, solid rebuttle. I'm purely talking long format cricket, from my perspective I haven't seriously considered shanto in the shorter formats yet.
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  #38  
Old October 21, 2017, 07:44 PM
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Eshen Eshen is offline
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^^ Shanto came in the limelight through his Youth ODI form. The press is now talking him up again based on his performances in one-dayers in England last month. Think his likelihood for an ODI debut is much brighter than return to the Test team.

My personal opinion is that Momin should be in contention for #3 in both Test and ODI (he did pretty well in last two DPL). But selectors also should open up the race for a replacement for him, in both formats, instead of narrowing it to one choice only at this point.
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  #39  
Old October 21, 2017, 11:34 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
^^ Shanto came in the limelight through his Youth ODI form. The press is now talking him up again based on his performances in one-dayers in England last month. Think his likelihood for an ODI debut is much brighter than return to the Test team.

My personal opinion is that Momin should be in contention for #3 in both Test and ODI (he did pretty well in last two DPL). But selectors also should open up the race for a replacement for him, in both formats, instead of narrowing it to one choice only at this point.
I think mini is better at 4 but he should be at 3 until we find a better one. Although if mushy gives up gloves full time in tests he should be considered for the number 3 spot.

In one dayers I want to see how liton goes for an extended run before thinking of anyone else (including mini). Tamim, in form soumya and liton might be a really good top 3 if we can sort them out.
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