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  #276  
Old October 30, 2017, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger1000
Oh God Shakib didn't come top on a cricinfo poll thats mainly visited by Indians

Kallis was less popular than Flintoff worldwide... Freddie must have been some player right?

You lied previously, when you tried expressing your opinion as fact, you got held up about that, your views lose credibility when you blatantly lie when you can't back up your opinion
Flintoff is a better all-rounder than kallis. I don't have the full broadcast of each of the matches Shakib played in county. So it's hard to back it up. Not because it's a lie, rather because the full matches can not be found. I am still standing by my opinion. It doesn't change. I have heard it, that is what matters to me.
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  #277  
Old October 30, 2017, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportingBD
Flintoff is a better all-rounder than kallis. I don't have the full broadcast of each of the matches Shakib played in county. So it's hard to back it up. Not because it's a lie, rather because the full matches can not be found. I am still standing by my opinion. It doesn't change. I have heard it, that is what matters to me.
You said most said this, when it wasn't true, but you kept trying to push it.

Flintoff is a better all rounder than Kallis.. Am a huge Freddie fan, but that is simply incorrect, and it's not even opinion, it's a simple fact. Am sorry you know nothing about cricket or all rounders at the least, this tells me all I need to know, am not continuing with this conversation anymore

Just to let you know, whilst Kallis wasn't much of an all rounder this decade, he was a great one in the 90's and 00's, second greatest all rounder of all time, second greatest player of all time. If Flintoff is better than Kallis, then sure Stokes, ashwin Jadeja, moeen are all a superior to Shakib
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  #278  
Old October 30, 2017, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger1000
You said most said this, when it wasn't true, but you kept trying to push it.

Flintoff is a better all rounder than Kallis.. Am a huge Freddie fan, but that is simply incorrect, and it's not even opinion, it's a simple fact. Am sorry you know nothing about cricket or all rounders at the least, this tells me all I need to know, am not continuing with this conversation anymore

Just to let you know, whilst Kallis wasn't much of an all rounder this decade, he was a great one in the 90's and 00's, second greatest all rounder of all time, second greatest player of all time. If Flintoff is better than Kallis, then sure Stokes, ashwin Jadeja, moeen are all a superior to Shakib
Now you are making opinions into fact.. Flintoff is not a better All-Rounder than Kallis? complete joker. have you taken a survey amongst fans? or like amongst expert cricket analysers lol... It's your opinion, I respect that.

Just don't make it into a fact, please.

Flintoff is more of a genuine all-rounder, compared to Kallis. In the sense Flintoff had more responsibility, especially as a bowler.
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  #279  
Old October 30, 2017, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportingBD
Now you are making opinions into fact.. Flintoff is not a better All-Rounder than Kallis? complete joker. have you taken a survey amongst fans? or like amongst expert cricket analysers lol... It's your opinion, I respect that.

Just don't make it into a fact, please.

Flintoff is more of a genuine all-rounder, compared to Kallis. In the sense Flintoff had more responsibility, especially as a bowler.
Flintoff better than Kallis hahahahaha

He might have had the edge with the ball, but better all rounder, now I've heard everything
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  #280  
Old October 30, 2017, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boka

এইবারের এই সফরে কষ্ট কইরা ঘামঝড়াইয়া বেশীর ভাগ খেলাতেই ম্যাচ থ্রেড খুইল্লা আমগোরে বকবক করার সুযোগ কইরা দেওয়ার জন্য দিনরাইত(DinRaat) কে কুটিকুটি ধন্যবাদ,
সুসময়ে অনেকেই সাথী হয় কিন্তু দুঃসময়ে দলের পাশে থাইক্কা দারুন সাহস দেখাইলো দিনরাইত (DinRaat)

আমরা যতো খারাপ করছি বইল্লা চিক্কুর পারতেছি ততোটা খারাপ আসলে করি নাই,
দ. আফ্রিকা যহন আমগো দেশে আইস্সা ৭ বা ৯ উইকেটে হারে তহন ওগো কি মহাখারাপ দল, জঘন্য দল, দল পুরাই পাল্টাইতে হইবো কইয়া গাইল পারার কিছু আছে?
আমগো দেশে আগে অন্যরা আইস্সা মাতব্বরী কইরা যাইতো
অহন সেই দিন শেষ।

আমগো সবাইরে -
আর একটু ধৈর্য্য ধরতে হইবো দিন আইবো যখন আমরা বাইরে গিয়াও জিতুম লাগাতার

তয় এই আসরের টি২০ নিয়া আমার দুইখান কথা এইহানে কই:

প্রসঙ্গ মোল্লা:
==========

সিপিএল এ মোল্লা ৩ ইনিংসে ১১ ওভার বল করে ৩ টা উইকেট পাইছিলো,
ওভার প্রতি রান দিছিলো ৭.৩৬
ঐ একই আসরে সাকিব ৩ ইনিংসই বল করছিলো ৯ ওভার উইকেট ২টা
ওভার প্রতি রান ৭.৩৩

অহন দেহি মোল্লা পিএসএল এ কি করছে -
তাজ্জব তো সেইহানেও দেহি বোলিং তাকে দিয়ে করাইছে তার দল !!

৬ খেলার ৫টাতেই বল করছে
১৪.২ ওভার ৭টা উইকেটও পাইছিলো
ওভার প্রতি রান ৭.৭৪, বোলিং গড় ১৫.৮৫

ঐ একই আসরে সাকিব ৪ ইনিংস বল করেছিলো
১২ ওভার উইকেট ৫টা
ওভার প্রতি রান ৬.৪১, বোলিং গড় ১৫.৪০

আমগো টি২০ দলে মোল্লাকে খেলাইলে তাকে দিয়া ৪ ওভার বল না করানোর চিন্তাটাই কেমন আউলাঝাউলা বেকুবের মতো, এগো অবস্থা দেহি বোকামীতে আমার চাইতেও খারাপ?

আমগো দলে তো সাকিব ছাড়া আর মাত্র মোল্লারই কিছু অভিজ্ঞতা আছে দেশে-বিদেশে বোলিং করার,
অথচ হেরে দিয়া প্রথমটাতে তাও অন্যরা আগেই ছেচা খাওন শুরু করায় ৩ওভার করাইছে আর এইটাতে ১ওভার।

একটু বুদ্ধি আছে এমন যে কোন দলের কর্তৃপক্ষ এমন অভিজ্ঞতাওয়ালা একজন থেইক্কা সেরাটা বাইর কইরা নিতো তারে কইয়া দিয়া যে মিয়া তুমারে ৪ওভার বল করতেই হবে ব্যটিং এর সাথে।

প্রসঙ্গ উইকেটকিপিং:
=================
যেহেতু আমগো কোন পাওয়ার হিটার নাই, বোলিংও তেমন বিধ্বংসী অহনও হয়ে উঠে নাই,
তো আমগো ফিল্ডিং এ সবচেয়ে বেশী ফায়দা যাতে নিতে পারি তার ব্যবস্থা থাহার দরকার।
যদি দলে ৫ ফুট ৮ ইঞ্চি লম্বা একজন থাহে তো তার থেইক্কা ৪-৫ ইঞ্চি কম উচচতার একজনরে কিপিং করতে দিলে সমস্যা যেইটা হয় তা হইলো ঐ ৪-৫ ইঞ্চি জায়গা কম উইকেটের পিছনে ৩৬০ ডিগ্রীতেই আটকা পরে।
এমনই আমগো খেলোয়াড়রা অনেক দেশের চাইতেই লম্বায় কম,
তারপরও যা একটু সুবিধা পাওয়া যায়
হেইডাও না নেয়া কেমন বেকুবের কাজ?

তারউপর আবার দেশের সেরা যে টি২০ এর জন্য হেই এনামুল হক বিজয় রে দলেই লয় না,
হের দোষ হয়তো ৩২.২৭ গড়ে আর্ন্তজাতিক টি২০ তে ১১৭ স্ট্রাইক রেটে রান করাটা।
ঘরোয়া খেলাতে তার ২৬.২১ গড় আর ১২১.৩৩ স্ট্রাইক রেট টাও হয়তো আরেকটা দোষের কারণ।
নাইলে লিটন কেমন সুযোগ পাইতেছে কিন্তু বিজয় রে দলেই ডাকে না।
লিটনের ঘরোয়াতেই গড় ১৪.৪৪ আর স্ট্রাইক রেট ১১৫.৭৪

প্রসঙ্গ মুশি:
==========
মুশিকে নিয়া অনেকেই কথা কইতেছে
ব্যটার হিসাবে যারা দলে সুযোগ পাইতেছে তাদের অনেকের থেইক্কাই কইলাম মুশির রেকর্ড ভালা।

ঘরোয়াতে তার গড় ২৫.৯১ আর স্ট্রাইক রেট ১২৪.৩৬
আর্ন্তজাতিকে গড় ১৬.৮৪ আর স্ট্রাইক রেট ১১৩.১২
যেইটা কইলাম তামিমের স্ট্রাইক রেট ১১৫.২১ থেইক্কা খুব দূরে না।
ঘরোয়াতে তো তামিম মুশির অনেকই পিছনে স্ট্রাইকরেটে ১১৮.৩১
যদিও তামিমের গড় আর্ন্তজাতিকে ২৩.২৭ আর ঘরোয়াতে ২৯.৮৩ কিছুটা ভালা।

যতো খারাপ ধইরা লইতেছি মুশি আমাগো যেই ব্যটার আছে তাদের মধ্যে থেইক্কা দলে থাকার মতোই।
ব্যটার হিসাবে কারও যদি টি২০তে সুযোগে বন্ধ হইতে হয় তো আগে তা বন্ধ হইতে হয়
ইমরুল ভাইজানের, উনার গড় ৯.১৫, স্ট্রাইক রেট ৮৮.৮০

প্রসঙ্গ সাকিব:
============

যদিও সাকিব দারুন অলরাউন্ডার কিন্তু সাকিব কখনই ৩ এ খেলার মতো ব্যটার না যদি না প্রথম উইকেট পরতে পরতে ৮-৯ ওভার পার হইয়া যায়।
আমগো দলের জন্যে সবচাইতে ভালা হইতেছে সাকিবের ৫ এ নামাই।
আশাকরা যায় তহন ১০ ওভার পার হইয়া যাইবো এবং যেই সময় আমগো ঝিমধরা ভাবটা আসে সেই সময়ে সাকিব রানের চাকা চালু রাখবো।

সবাই সব ফরমেটে না:
==================
ইমরুল একদিন এবং টেস্টে যথেষ্ট উন্নতি করতে পারছে গত দুই বছরে,
হেইর লাইগ্গা তারে টি২০তে খেলাইতে হইবো এই চিন্তাটা মহা বোকামী।
আবার অহন একটা সিরিজে খারাপ করছে দেইখ্খা একদিন আর টেস্টেও বাদ দিয়া দিমু এইটাও একই রকম বোকামী।

আমগো প্রধান ব্যটার সবকয়জনই সব ফর্মেটের জন্য এক নাই হইবার পারে, ভিভিএস লক্ষণের মতো অতো ভালা ব্যটারও তো সব ফর্মেটে সুযোগ পায় নাই। বিষয়টা নির্বাচকগো বুঝতে হইবো।


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  #281  
Old October 30, 2017, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DinRaat.
^^^^ anyone know what he is saying, did I do something bad??????
Spen less time on the forums and go learn Bengali!
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  #282  
Old October 30, 2017, 03:46 PM
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Eshen Eshen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger1000
Flintoff better than Kallis hahahahaha

He might have had the edge with the ball, but better all rounder, now I've heard everything
Yeah, it's a facepalm moment when someone compares Flintoff with Kallis. In their heydays, they were comparable as bowlers, but Kallis belonged to whole another level as a batsman (Test average 55, ODI 44).
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  #283  
Old October 30, 2017, 03:49 PM
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If you compare Kallis and Flintoff format by format.

Test: Kallis (mainly for his batting)
ODI: Flintoff
T20: Flintoff.

that just how I take it. I would pick Flintoff. It's only in Test Kallis is superb, mainly as a batsman. You do need to recognise, most of Kallis era, he always had good bowlers bowling for SA.

Everyone has a opinion, and I have mine.
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  #284  
Old October 30, 2017, 04:11 PM
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Match Adda Match Adda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aklemalp
Yes, Cricbook bro. I think Saifuddin will develop the traits of a good all rounder as long as he stays fit.

I love all your posts. Always brings a smile to my face. This is from my heart bro. I love YOU
Love taken
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  #285  
Old October 30, 2017, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DinRaat.
Your words are like poetry woven through the clouds.
Thanks thanks
Din raat is our bc’s Ben stokes, banglai Saifuddin
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  #286  
Old October 30, 2017, 04:39 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Flintoff would be more useful ODIs. kallis doesn't bat fast enough which is the problem, kohli, ab, viv etc would get a spot as batsmen ahead of him and kallis isn't a good enough bowler to be picked as a front line bowler so that puts him at the number 7/8 spot which is out of position for him plus he doesn't bat fast enough plus you'd pick the better more dangerous bowler in that position.

Hence it's not so laughable to compare Flintoff with kallis.

Straight up though the averages do favour kallis.

But ODIs, kallis' strike rate is 72, bowling average is 31 compared to flintoff's 24. Flintoff also has a better economy and strike rate with the ball. As a bat the average is much in favour of kallis but strike rate of Flintoff is 88/89 compared to that 72 for kallis and batting at 7/8 strike rate is very important plus a 32 bat average is still very respectable for a 7/8.

So the only way you're getting kallis into the team is if he bats up the order but there are many more capable ODIs bats to pick ahead of kallis.

How many ODI bowlers average 24 with a 32 average strike nearing 90, and pretty sure kallis in a particular position in ODIs averages over 40 with a pretty high strike rate.

Although in t20s it's closer, possibly in kallis' favour.
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  #287  
Old October 30, 2017, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
Flintoff would be more useful ODIs. kallis doesn't bat fast enough which is the problem, kohli, ab, viv etc would get a spot as batsmen ahead of him and kallis isn't a good enough bowler to be picked as a front line bowler so that puts him at the number 7/8 spot which is out of position for him plus he doesn't bat fast enough plus you'd pick the better more dangerous bowler in that position.

Hence it's not so laughable to compare Flintoff with kallis.

Straight up though the averages do favour kallis.

But ODIs, kallis' strike rate is 72, bowling average is 31 compared to flintoff's 24. Flintoff also has a better economy and strike rate with the ball. As a bat the average is much in favour of kallis but strike rate of Flintoff is 88/89 compared to that 72 for kallis and batting at 7/8 strike rate is very important plus a 32 bat average is still very respectable for a 7/8.

So the only way you're getting kallis into the team is if he bats up the order but there are many more capable ODIs bats to pick ahead of kallis.

How many ODI bowlers average 24 with a 32 average strike nearing 90, and pretty sure kallis in a particular position in ODIs averages over 40 with a pretty high strike rate.

Although in t20s it's closer, possibly in kallis' favour.
I was really talking from a test stand point

As for odis, it's closer than tests for sure

Flintoff is the better bowler

As for batting, it's not even close, you don't judge them by looking at all time XI, you judge them against each other and fact is Kallis was the backbone of the team, Flintoff was a lower order slogger

How many average 32 and 24, well how many average 44 and 31

All this without mentioning longevity

Further, an ability of a player is mostly judged on test cricket ability and Kallis dwarfs Flintoff there
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  #288  
Old October 30, 2017, 06:58 PM
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tiger1000 tiger1000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportingBD
If you compare Kallis and Flintoff format by format.

Test: Kallis (mainly for his batting)
ODI: Flintoff
T20: Flintoff.

that just how I take it. I would pick Flintoff. It's only in Test Kallis is superb, mainly as a batsman. You do need to recognise, most of Kallis era, he always had good bowlers bowling for SA.

Everyone has a opinion, and I have mine.
Kallis was a excellent bowler in his younger days, with age he slowed down, Kallis did have excellent bowlers, so did Flintoff, he's played with

Caddick, gough, hamrison, Jones, hoggard, Anderson, broad

That's no Steyn Donald, but it's not a big difference

Flintoff was simply not of the class of Kallis, with the bowl he was excellent yes, but overall he's not worthy to be mentioned with Kallis

T20 I couldn't care less, I'll probably have Freddie
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Old October 30, 2017, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger1000
I was really talking from a test stand point

As for odis, it's closer than tests for sure

Flintoff is the better bowler

As for batting, it's not even close, you don't judge them by looking at all time XI, you judge them against each other and fact is Kallis was the backbone of the team, Flintoff was a lower order slogger

How many average 32 and 24, well how many average 44 and 31

All this without mentioning longevity

Further, an ability of a player is mostly judged on test cricket ability and Kallis dwarfs Flintoff there
From a test standpoint it is a no contest but in ODIs they offer different roles, Freddie is a top quality bowler and lower order hitter whereas kallis is very much an anchor batsmen who can give you 10 overs if needed.

Kallis was actually quite capable as a bowler but in ODIs Freddie was an atg bowler if not then was very close to it.

Imo you need a common context to compare them otherwise you can't do a fair comparison because they did play different roles.

For me anytime if I could only pick one, I'll take a 24 average bowler with a 32 average bat striking at near 90 over a 44 average bat striking at 72 with a bowling average of 31.

Because at the end of it Freddie was an atg bowler in ODIs and a consistent enough lower order hitter. Kallis's ODI batting might of had a 44 average but he was nowhere near an atg bat in ODIs and his bowling was good but was it better than Freddie's batting? Imo no, maybe on par but then that would leave Freddie ahead because of his atg bowling.
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  #290  
Old October 30, 2017, 07:55 PM
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Kallis didn't really slow down, he was still bowling 140 when he was older, he just wasn't bowling as often.

I do wonder how good kallis would've been if he didn't bat and focused only on bowling, reckon he would've been pretty exceptional.
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  #291  
Old October 30, 2017, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportingBD
If you compare Kallis and Flintoff format by format.

Test: Kallis (mainly for his batting)
ODI: Flintoff
T20: Flintoff.

that just how I take it. I would pick Flintoff. It's only in Test Kallis is superb, mainly as a batsman. You do need to recognise, most of Kallis era, he always had good bowlers bowling for SA.

Everyone has a opinion, and I have mine.
if it is just your opinion then dont push your opinion as fact lmao especially when you lied about what ppl were saying about shakib in county and bbl. Just cos you heard one commie say something in one county match doesnt mean the whole australian and english media were talking down on shakib LOL.

Then when were grabbing at straws making ridiculous comments such as commies calling him "Al Hasan" which somehow means that commies dont know Al Hasan at all which means that all commies dont rate Al Hasan which means that Al Hasan in reality is a poor player.

Next time just say u heard one time where commies might have said something about shakib. Don't generalise LOL. It is exactly what western media does with muslims. One muslim does something bad then suddenly whole Ummah is responsible.
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  #292  
Old October 30, 2017, 09:47 PM
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Come on now, Flintoff > Kallis as a complete allrounder? Nah man. Kallis was a complete allrounder, Flintoff was more of a bowling allrounder. You probably would pick Flintoff the BOWLER ahead of Kallis but in no world would he top Kallis as the better allrounder.

And did I read Ashwin > Shakib as a complete allrounder? Lol. As a bowler, yes. As an allrounder ... LOL.

Just like Kallis, Shakib is a complete allrounder. Not someone who can bat a bit or bowl a bit. It's questionable of he will end up as an atg but that doesn't mean he is not a complete allrounder. Ashwin and Jadeja are both bowling allrounder, no one expects them to win matches with the bat.
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Old October 31, 2017, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godzilla
Come on now, Flintoff > Kallis as a complete allrounder? Nah man. Kallis was a complete allrounder, Flintoff was more of a bowling allrounder. You probably would pick Flintoff the BOWLER ahead of Kallis but in no world would he top Kallis as the better allrounder.

And did I read Ashwin > Shakib as a complete allrounder? Lol. As a bowler, yes. As an allrounder ... LOL.

Just like Kallis, Shakib is a complete allrounder. Not someone who can bat a bit or bowl a bit. It's questionable of he will end up as an atg but that doesn't mean he is not a complete allrounder. Ashwin and Jadeja are both bowling allrounder, no one expects them to win matches with the bat.

Shakib isn't comparable to Ashwin as an all rounder? Wow. Just because Shakib-Al-Hasan plays for an inferior team like Bangladesh and considered as a vital cog in Bangladeshi lineup doesn't necessarily mean he would've been treated similarly if he had played for other top teams.

Had he played for a superior team he wouldn't have been selected just for his bowling or batting alone, which means he isn't a complete allrounder. If u truly believe that shakib is skillful enough to get I to the indian or southafrican side just as a batsman or as a bowler then I've to say that u r living in ur own lala land.


Shakib is an excellent allrounder but he still hasn't achieved much to be compared to players like Flintoff or kallis. And statement like "he's way better allrounder than Ashwin" is just hilarious. Ashwin is an excellent bowling allrounder whereas shakib is an excellent batting allrounder.


I'll put shakib ahead of Ashwin in lois due to his ability to score quickly, but in tests Ashwin is slightly ahead as an all rounder. Unlike shakib neither does he consistently play against minnows like Zimbabwe nor does he get enough chance to bat to pad his batting stats.

But shakib as an all rounder is highly overrated in this forum. Some ppl even call him GOAT... LOL. Shakib is a good allrounder in lois but he still hasn't crossed the level of pre ban hafeez or daniel vettory. Players like Flintoff, kallis r still way ahead of him.
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