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  #126  
Old September 21, 2007, 10:53 AM
zahid zahid is offline
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Kuthakar pani kothay giya gorailo!

These Extremists are using it to their advantage!
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  #127  
Old September 21, 2007, 10:54 AM
Dream theater Dream theater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
Dream theater its not me who thinks people should go to jail for tasteless joke. Nor did I mentioned anywhere that Shibir and Jamat is a standard of what is right and wrong. So you are asking to the wrong person.
Fazal, I dont think the cartoonist should go to jail for this joke, neither do I believe jokes like that should be made ( by anyone at any time ) in a country like Bangladesh specially during the month of Ramadan. It can easily trigger a volatile situation. That explains why Prothom-alo was quick to retract the cartoon and took quick action.

Another thing I always note reagrding people like you is , you dont miss a chance to bring up the topic of Jamat Shibir whether it fits the discussion or not. The problem with doing that is you redirect the discussion to a different path. The path this topic did not intent to take.

I am all for Shibir cartoonist sharing the same fate as Prothom-Alo cartoonist. Which is a rebuke from the editor and so on. For the sake of this discussion I will refrain from commenting on Hasina being accused of a crime and what not.

May be you can open a new thread and start venting against Jamat- Shibir and their cohorts. But this topic is dedicated to Prothom-Alo cartoon incident and related matters.
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  #128  
Old September 21, 2007, 11:08 AM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire_x86
I think it was just a light hearted joke about the mullahs, as many jokes exists about all kinds of professionals. It's hard to believe that the cartoonist tried to imply anything at all about Islam or Islamic culture.

Now the poor guy is being either labeled as villain (by Mullah and supporter group) or hero (for trying to make a "bold statement")
i wouldn't say he's a villain although calling a cat mohammad is coming close.

if you don't think so just imagine if he was holding a hog and the kid said "muhammad shuor"

and he wasn't making a bold statement. if he was going to piss off the mullahs and get himself jailed, he should have picked something more worthwhile. what about all those acid throwing incidents? bangla bhai? etc, etc.

the artist was an idiot.

even me with my trigger happy mouth knows better than to risk my job over something which makes absolutely zero societal impact.
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  #129  
Old September 21, 2007, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
i wouldn't say he's a villain although calling a cat mohammad is coming close.

if you don't think so just imagine if he was holding a hog and the kid said "muhammad shuor"

and he wasn't making a bold statement. if he was going to piss off the mullahs and get himself jailed, he should have picked something more worthwhile. what about all those acid throwing incidents? bangla bhai? etc, etc.

the artist was an idiot.

even me with my trigger happy mouth knows better than to risk my job over something which makes absolutely zero societal impact.

Well put.

Its hard to imagine he didn't know all this was coming.
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  #130  
Old September 21, 2007, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BD-Shardul
But still they are good people than the so called intellectuals like Daud Haider, Ariful Rahman. Because despite all the criticisms from the intellectuals like Ahmed Sharif, Humayun Azad, it were the mullah's who said their Janaja prayer. The day I will die, it will be the mollahs who will say janaja for me. They will be the people who will at least recite Innahlillah or some other prayer,and put me in the grave according to Islamic manner. , Those intellectual, educated, progressive people will not. They will at best write a poem, or publish an essay, which will be of no use for me.
I do not know intentionally or not, you are messing up religious people with those mullahs we were talking about.

Let me define them first, in case it was not intentional. A religious person is one who follows the true path of Islam the way Muhammad (SW) did. Without any doubt they are the most honorable people.

Then there are 'those' mullahs of Bangladesh previously known as Rajakar and Al Bodors. Currently known as Shibir and Jamaat and JMB and many many more. What do they do? They use a DISTORTED version of Islam to gain political and monitory advantage. They killed and raped million in '71 and now taking a different path to do what they failed to do in '71. What they follow or do has nothing to do with Islam. In fact, they do the opposite. They use the religion to create instability in the country so that they can take advantage of it.

You can be more than sure that none of the first group took part in the current protest. Its the second group who did all those.

Now, as some people were talking about, should the cartoonist has done it, or did he deserved the jail.

Notice here that, it is not a Islamic rule that names has to start with Muhammad. Since this cartoon talks about this rule, the cartoon is not about Islamic rule. What I'm saying is, if this cartoon was making fun of a real Islamic rule, it would be again Islam. Since it did not, Islam has nothing to do with it.

Then, what does it has to do with? A distorted version of Islam (I already told you who uses that). In that version, all name has to start with Muhammad. And the cartoonist poke fun against them (the people who are protesting it). Should the cartoonist has done it? Why not? If people can make fun of thieves or robbers why not them? Thieves and robbers are not, at least, hypocrites, which these people are.

the only thing wrong about this whole thing is how Prothom Alo and CTG handled the situation. any protest and such activities should have been stopped with roller stream from the root and Prothom Alo should have stood behind their staff.

Oh yeah, if such thing creates instability in the country, there is something wrong with the country and that need to be fixed. Stopping such cartoon is not the solution.
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  #131  
Old September 21, 2007, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream theater
Another thing I always note reagrding people like you is , you dont miss a chance to bring up the topic of Jamat Shibir whether it fits the discussion or not. The problem with doing that is you redirect the discussion to a different path. The path this topic did not intent to take.
....well I don't agree... actually I think the Shibir cartoon is very much to the point of this discussion... but the problem with People like you, is, you are too sensitive about that and fail to see the connection or see the connection but don't want to talk beacuse it doesn't help your cause.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream theater
May be you can open a new thread and start venting against Jamat- Shibir and their cohorts. But this topic is dedicated to Prothom-Alo cartoon incident and related matters.
Why should I? To accomodate you? Rubu the creator of this thread also see the connection. Only you don't see the connection. The Shibir Cartoon IS RELATED matters of this thread. If it hurts your feeling, may be you should avoid this thread instead.

Last edited by Fazal; September 21, 2007 at 11:51 AM..
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  #132  
Old September 21, 2007, 12:03 PM
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Police clubs the protesters (source bdnews24).... it starts once again....
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  #133  
Old September 21, 2007, 03:20 PM
BD-Shardul BD-Shardul is offline
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Please read it:

http://prothom-alo.com/index.news.de...p?nid=MTA1OTA=
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  #134  
Old September 21, 2007, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
i wouldn't say he's a villain although calling a cat mohammad is coming close.

if you don't think so just imagine if he was holding a hog and the kid said "muhammad shuor"
Now that we're talking about imagination, it's hard to imagine that a Bangladeshi kid would go around carrying a pig in his hand. You can say that jokes are usually unrealistic, but the joke teller/cartoonist will usually try to make the imagined world resemble real world as close as possible.

Quote:
and he wasn't making a bold statement. if he was going to piss off the mullahs and get himself jailed, he should have picked something more worthwhile. what about all those acid throwing incidents? bangla bhai? etc, etc.
Why should everything must carry a great meaning or serve deep purpose? People read light jokes, chuckle if they like it and forget it within a day regardless of whether they liked it or not when they read it first.

Quote:
the artist was an idiot.

even me with my trigger happy mouth knows better than to risk my job over something which makes absolutely zero societal impact.
Who could know that some people will make mountain out of molehill over a ordinary joke? After this incident the editors will surely be more careful to ensure "political correctness" of anything they print. But is it a good thing to let political correctness dominate over common sense and general conscience?
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  #135  
Old September 21, 2007, 06:40 PM
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What a find Fazal!!! good one.
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  #136  
Old September 21, 2007, 08:14 PM
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There appears to be several issues that we are discussing in this thread.

There's the cartoon itself: I did not find it objectionable in the least. Nor did I find it, in any manner, insulting towards the prophet. At most, it insults or ridicules those particular unenlightened or ignorant mullahs who come up with ridiculous notions like the one suggesting that every Muslim male must preface his name with Muhammad. I have no issues with actual scholars; but the mullahs who come up with this type of tripe are just one step away from rank superstition and deserve all the ridicule we can heap upon them.

Then, there's the issue of the cartoonist being tried for allegedly offending the "religious sentiment" of the people. I find this a terrible precedent (not that we haven't had plenty of such precedents earlier with certain books and issues of magazines being banned). This is just another slippery step down the road to religion-based censorship. Today, it's the cartoonist being tried -- what will it be tomorrow? Arresting me if I teach a molecular biology or a genetics course at a local university during my sabbaticals (because I will be talking about evolution, and clearly, many religious people find that hard to digest)? Or arresting artists, or sculptors, or even anyone with a camera for making facsimiles of living beings? We have seen this before, after all, in Afghanistan -- the destruction by the Taliban of the 1500-year old Bamyan Buddha statues -- and it all stems from a narrow-minded, blind and zealous interpretation of the faith. Some of you are suggesting that the cartoonist should have known better, what with this being Ramadan and all. That's essentially a tacit approval of the fate that befalls him, and as far as I'm concerned, that makes you equally culpable if Bangladesh goes down the fundamentalist drain to Taliban-istan.

There's the editorial board for Prothom Alo, which avows no responsibility in the matter, putting all the culpability on the cartoonist's shoulders. One has to ask: what then was the editor doing, given that he is ultimately responsible for what comes out in his paper? Either he was fine with the cartoon before all this hoop-la, in which case he is a hypocrite, or he never bothered to see what was going out to print, in which case he is incompetent.

Then there are all the people who seem to be offended at the cartoon -- seriously, is their faith so weak, so vulnerable, so susceptible to even a simple cartoon (that, in my view, was never attacking it in the first place), that there is such a need for vehemence?

And finally, what is it with Hizbul Tahrir? They get so aggravated by a simple cartoon that they burn an effigy of Prothom Alo editor Matiur Rahman in Baitul Mukarram, conveniently ignoring the proscription on making effigies of living beings in Islam.
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  #137  
Old September 21, 2007, 08:20 PM
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As always, To the point post from Shaad. if you read through the thread, those are the points I was trying to make all the way. Except for the last one, which is, of course shows the kind of hypocrites those mullahs are.
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  #138  
Old September 22, 2007, 01:44 AM
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I wish I could show this ad to the mullahs. Should not these mullahs now gherao Belgian embassy for the blasphmous act Jesus is also our prophet. Bunch of hypocrate
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  #139  
Old September 22, 2007, 07:11 AM
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Police disperse protest march towards Prothom Alo
Staff Correspondent


Protesters remove police barricade at Shahbagh intersection in the capital yesterday in their bid to reach the office of daily Prothom Alo at Karwan Bazar. Photo: STAR
Police yesterday dispersed a march towards the office of the daily Prothom Alo in the capital, which was protesting the publication of a cartoon strip in the newspaper's weekly satirical magazine Aalpin.

The march was organised by Hizbut Tahrir, Bangladesh Khelafat Andolon, Islami Oikya Andolon, Bangladesh Chhatra Mukti Andolon, and Islami Shasantantra Andolon, despite repeated apologies from the editor of the daily for the inadvertent publication of the cartoon strip.

The protesters demanded arrests of Prothom Alo Editor Matiur Rahman and its publisher Mahfuz Anam, and imposition of a ban on the publication of the newspaper.

Police dispersed the marchers by charging batons when they reached close to Shahbagh intersection trying to approach the newspaper's office by removing barricades put up there by the law enforcers. The police action left 20 Hizbut Tahrir activists injured, five of whom were treated in Dhaka Medical College Hospital.

As the dispersed marchers tried to regroup, police charged batons again dispersing them completely in only 15 minutes.

During the melee vehicular traffic on several nearby roads remained suspended causing sufferings for commuters.

Activists of the five organisations had started to gather at the north gate of Baitul Mukarram Mosque after the Juma prayer yesterday carrying banners and leaflets and chanting slogans.

The demonstrators also burnt several copies of the Prothom Alo, and effigies of its editor and the publisher.

After holding a brief rally at the entrance of the mosque, activists of the Islamist organisations marched through the roads of Purana Paltan and Baitul Mukarram Mosque area for some time, after which the activists of four organisations, except Hizbut Tahrir, dispersed.

Hizbut Tahrir activists however started to march towards the newspaper's office calling pedestrians over the bullhorns to join them.

The march was trailed by a long traffic jam stretching from Paltan via the Press Club to Shahbagh intersection.

Since early morning security measures had been heightened surrounding the offices of the Prothom Alo and The Daily Star. Police were deployed at several strategic points circling the offices, and barbed wire police barricades were set up at several points. Additional police were also deployed at the entrances of the offices.

Rapid Action Battalion members were seen patrolling the roads surrounding the two offices on motorbikes.

A tense situation had prevailed in the area until the Juma prayer ended and the fasting Muslims returned home in peace.

Vehicles going towards Bangla Motor from Farmgate used alternative roads as police had blocked the stretch of Kazi Nazrul Islam Avenue between Karwan Bazar intersection and Bangla Motor intersection during the skirmishes at Shahbagh.

"We have gathered here to lay a siege to the office of the Prothom Alo as the cartoon hurt the religious sentiments of the Muslims," said Saleh Uddin, who was injured in the police baton charge.

International Khatme Nabuwat Movement brought out a march in the Tejgaon industrial area while Islami Oikya Jote Chairman Mufti Fazlul Haque Amini delivered a long speech during his sermon before the Juma prayer in Boro Katra Mosque of Chakbazar. A protest march was also brought out in the area.

Bangladesh Khelafat Majlish Chairman Shaikhul Hadith Allama Azizul Haque in a statement said the Saptahik 2000 magazine fuelled the fire already burning in the minds of the Muslims by publishing another 'objectionable piece' in the Eid issue.

Earlier, Baitul Mukarram National Mosque Khatib Maulana Obaidul Haq on Thursday urged people not to incite tension and not to give rise to any movement in the country centring the cartoon strip.

The Prothom Alo Editor Matiur Rahman on the same day apologised once again for the inadvertent publication of the cartoon, and urged the Muslims and their clerics to 'forgive the mistake'.

Meanwhile, UNB reported that in Chittagong yesterday about 2,000 Muslims led by Kazi Fazlul Karim, convenor of General Musalli Parishad, tried to bring out a protest march in the port city after holding a condemnation rally on the Andarkilla Mosque premises following the Juma prayer there. But they abandoned the plan at the request of police.

Security was beefed up around mosques and newsstands in Sylhet. Police arrested three -- Syed Mohidul Islam, Abdullah Al Mahmud, and Mushfiqur Rahman -- students of Shahjalal University of Engineering and Technology, while they were distributing leaflets in front of the shrine of Shajalal (Rh).

Our correspondent from Barisal reported that Imam Maulana Abdul Kadir of the local Baitul Mukarram Mosque, Maulana Sharfuddin of Saw Road Mosque demanded arrest of the editor of Aalpin and the Prothom Alo.

However, due to the vigilance of law enforcers in uniform and in plain clothes, no demonstration could take place after the prayer.

The cartoon was published on Monday, prompting the government to confiscate all copies of Aalpin's 431st issue available on the market containing the cartoon strip titled 'Naam' [name] on page six, while the authorities of the newspaper apologised for the publication of the satire, and dismissed a sub-editor in connection with it.

Law enforcement agencies arrested Arifur Rahman, the cartoonist, on September 20.
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  #140  
Old September 22, 2007, 07:17 AM
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Anher Anher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubu
This is the problem with CTG. They could bang the students, who in most case driven by hot head rather than any political or even goal. But, they could not beat up the bastard mullahs who, we all know, looking for a political goal making an issue out of nothing.

how hard would have been to beat them up good and shut them up?
You could punish them but never can beat them. Have a look in Afganistan!!
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  #141  
Old September 22, 2007, 07:53 AM
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A sad incident really. Sad to see how low the tolerance of the extreemists in bd. The cartoon itself wasnt really that funny to me(as a joke/comic) but to arrest the cartoonist and putting him behind bar just for a cartoon is just way too much, its like poeple in bd going back in time instead of forwards. Much education is needed to get their mind off from the little box ..... i say.
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  #142  
Old September 22, 2007, 09:05 AM
Dream theater Dream theater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
....well I don't agree... actually I think the Shibir cartoon is very much to the point of this discussion... but the problem with People like you, is, you are too sensitive about that and fail to see the connection or see the connection but don't want to talk beacuse it doesn't help your cause.



Why should I? To accomodate you? Rubu the creator of this thread also see the connection. Only you don't see the connection. The Shibir Cartoon IS RELATED matters of this thread. If it hurts your feeling, may be you should avoid this thread instead.
Yes . I have to agree with you. I am very sensitive about this cartoon. I am even more sensitive about Jamat Shibir. No love lost between us.

BTW Shaad vai, You made some very good points. I strongly believe if anyone bears the responsibility for anything it should be Prothom-Alo. The poor cartoonist should not suffer the fate he is right now.
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  #143  
Old September 22, 2007, 12:02 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Now that we're talking about imagination, it's hard to imagine that a Bangladeshi kid would go around carrying a pig in his hand. You can say that jokes are usually unrealistic, but the joke teller/cartoonist will usually try to make the imagined world resemble real world as close as possible.
true.

Quote:
Why should everything must carry a great meaning or serve deep purpose? People read light jokes, chuckle if they like it and forget it within a day regardless of whether they liked it or not when they read it first.
because the point of this cartoon, at least from my (and all other BC members') viewpoint, is that we can achieve societal progress by getting people to realize the folly of their ways. is that not correct?

we all agree that the 99.99999% majority of mullahs have a strangle hold on religion and force all the ill perceptions about Islam and muslims onto the media for us.

so one would be wisest to tackle a real problem, many of which i have mentioned in my post. that would be a worthwhile cartoon. instead he chose to parody bangali naming conventions. perhaps he thought that he wouldn't get in trouble that way and still get the job done? if so, then i could agree with him even though his plan. backfired.

Quote:
Who could know that some people will make mountain out of molehill over a ordinary joke?
well no one on BC is surprised about the result.

Quote:
After this incident the editors will surely be more careful to ensure "political correctness" of anything they print. But is it a good thing to let political correctness dominate over common sense and general conscience?
this is a very good question, which i think needs to be debated. political correctness is the finest of tightropes...

PC is the source of most of the ire of most racist conservatives out here in the west. the argument is that PC is preventing the media and government from informing the public of the dangers and truth of "abortion, homosexuals, people of color, and muslims."

of course it is the duty of every decent, worthwhile human being to call out a spade as a spade. but one has to be careful of not to come out with blatant lies in an attempt to dehumanize others.

there are 2 extremely poignant examples of why PC actually does serve its purpose (while having obvious drawbacks): the 1930s Nazi assertions that Jews, Slavs, and gypsies were "sub-humans" and the current assertions by many that Muslim parents all over the world "hate us more than they love their children."

how many BC members hate "them" more than they love their children? any volunteers?

dehumanization at its most virulent potency.

*** i realize i went way off topic with this post despite my efforts
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  #144  
Old September 22, 2007, 02:31 PM
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As far I know, the tradition of naming your children Mohammad started in subcontinent when some subcontinental mullahs gave the fatwa that Muslims should start their names with Mohammad as opposed to Hindus starting their names with Sri so that British rulers could easily differentiate between Hindus and Muslims. I myself find it quite amusing that such obsolete tradition is still being followed, even when such naming procedure is no more required in a Muslim dominant country.

Naming your children Mohammad has nothing to do with tradition of Sahabis or later generations, very few of their children were named so. They more commonly named their children Abdullah (slave of Allah), Abdur Rahman (slave of the Rahman - another name of Allah), or other names with similar meaning , names that are somehow not that popular in our country.

Last edited by Eshen; September 22, 2007 at 02:39 PM..
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