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  #1  
Old July 21, 2004, 02:34 AM
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Rubu Rubu is offline
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Default Cant Help Being Passimist.... :(

Four years ago, when I watched bd playing last time they used to get out around 150-180 runs. The same thing is still here. Where are those improvements? How long we have to wait to regularly score 250+? What is going wrong? It seems like everything is there, but its just not happening
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  #2  
Old July 21, 2004, 02:36 AM
chinaman chinaman is offline
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Please consider the improvements India has made over that period.
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  #3  
Old July 21, 2004, 02:38 AM
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I am extremely angry at Pilot for getting Ash out. This was his day. He was so sad, looked to me almost in tears. I won't forgive pilot for quite sometime for this.

This out changed this game all together!
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  #4  
Old July 21, 2004, 02:42 AM
capslock capslock is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by nasif
I am extremely angry at Pilot for getting Ash out. This was his day. He was so sad, looked to me almost in tears. I won't forgive pilot for quite sometime for this.

This out changed this game all together!

Ash didn't have to take the run.
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  #5  
Old July 21, 2004, 02:48 AM
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BushidoTiger BushidoTiger is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by capslock
Quote:
Originally posted by nasif
I am extremely angry at Pilot for getting Ash out. This was his day. He was so sad, looked to me almost in tears. I won't forgive pilot for quite sometime for this.

This out changed this game all together!


Ash didn't have to take the run.

-Ash didn't take the run..he was at the non-striking end and was forced to run towards the opposite end when Mashud took off after hitting a ball that went straight to a fielder..!!
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  #6  
Old July 21, 2004, 03:08 AM
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We are not good enough to compete big boys!!
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  #7  
Old July 21, 2004, 04:15 AM
capslock capslock is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by BushidoTiger
Quote:
Originally posted by capslock
Quote:
Originally posted by nasif
I am extremely angry at Pilot for getting Ash out. This was his day. He was so sad, looked to me almost in tears. I won't forgive pilot for quite sometime for this.

This out changed this game all together!


Ash didn't have to take the run.

-Ash didn't take the run..he was at the non-striking end and was forced to run towards the opposite end when Mashud took off after hitting a ball that went straight to a fielder..!!
How was he forced? He was the set batsman, he could have just held his ground and Mashud would have been run out instead of him.
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  #8  
Old July 21, 2004, 05:56 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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We should take a good look at all of our players "bad point"
not just "good point" or "pointing something else".
If we dont do that from our heart, we will never be a good team.
Lets find out the "bad point" of all of them, as well as solution.
That could be helpful for us.
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  #9  
Old July 21, 2004, 06:43 AM
rockpundit rockpundit is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by capslock
Quote:
Originally posted by BushidoTiger
Quote:
Originally posted by capslock
Quote:
Originally posted by nasif
I am extremely angry at Pilot for getting Ash out. This was his day. He was so sad, looked to me almost in tears. I won't forgive pilot for quite sometime for this.

This out changed this game all together!


Ash didn't have to take the run.

-Ash didn't take the run..he was at the non-striking end and was forced to run towards the opposite end when Mashud took off after hitting a ball that went straight to a fielder..!!
How was he forced? He was the set batsman, he could have just held his ground and Mashud would have been run out instead of him.
Seriously , you cant blame anyone for that runout... They were both under pressure and this kind of thing happens regularly in cricket... I actually did not understand Whatmores gameplan.. Opening with a spinner against the worlds best players of spin??
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  #10  
Old July 21, 2004, 07:21 AM
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Navarene Navarene is offline
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Quote:
I actually did not understand Whatmores gameplan..
Neither did I!

Hard to swallow the fact that opening spells were bowled by a spinner. Hard to Believe that our team management had the luxury to put Tapash into rest. Hard to bear the reality that our batsmen lack some team spirit and temperament. Hard to trust on our wayward batting anymore!!!

I am tired and exhausted and suffocated of this constant pathetic display by a bunch of amateurish losers.
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  #11  
Old July 21, 2004, 07:21 AM
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AsifTheManRahman AsifTheManRahman is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by chinaman
Please consider the improvements India has made over that period.
Well unnoti shobai korbe...cricket dine dine aro competitive hobe...kintu taar mane ei na j amra 10 bochor dhore jebhabe perform korchi aro 10 bochor shebhabei perform kore jabo...

amader akhono onek poth pari deya baki...asia cup howar kotha chilo amader ultimate test...shei porikkhay amra akhon porjonto pass korte pari nai...

now i'm starting to believe that glory is not to come by with this generation of players.
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  #12  
Old July 21, 2004, 07:51 AM
Imtiaz Imtiaz is offline
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Default A general critique...

I sympathise with Agentsmith's emotions. All over the world , Bangalis either woke up early or didn't go to bed to watch the match. Every one of us watched with a sense of make-believe or incredible over-optimism.

Let us face facts. A team with 105 points in the ICC ODI table was playing one with just 1 point. The result was as would be expected. No better or no worse.

But we have to live in hope ! Given the difference in class, all we can hope against the big boys, is that one day soon all of ours will play above their potential and virtually all of theirs will play well below their potential.

I do not blame either Ashraful [ whose call it was by the way ] or Pilot for the run out. Maybe we would have scored 210, say. India would have lost 4 wickets, say. It would not have made a huge difference. Remember Balaji also gifted us at least 20 runs !

But I do blame certain tendencies ! I find innings after innings the sheer irresponsibility of Bashar difficult to accept. Before this match I had argued in a thread for him to open. So he did. However, I also expressed my fear of him facing Pathan. Sadly, my fear proved prescient. My fear was based not where he bats but the manner in which he bats. That same ball would have been met by countless first class cricketers by going a touch more forward but carrying bad and pad together. The ball would have rapped on the pads but because of close proximity of the bat the umpire in 99% of cases would have given not out. Ashraful, incidentally, was batting about a feet in front of the crease precisely to nullify the same movement. I found Ashraful innings a mature one today. But even he began to lose his concentration during the last 10 minutes of his stay.

Kapali and Ashraful played quite well. Normally, one could criticise Kapali's dismissal. But this is a one-day match and a little risk always has to be taken.

I also wanted Faisal to play. I am glad he did. I liked his confidence. He showed the same in the WI. However, he just does not move his feet. This Basharitis is contagius ! He has a good eye and so does Bashar. But that's where it ends.

Our most glaring failure took place during Ashraful and Faisal's otherwise good partnership of 36. Harbajhan and Nehra were bowling quite tightly. In this situation, we seem to prefer to hit fours and sixes to get out of the hole. If you had watched Sangakara and Jayawardene the other day, they rotated the strike and only hit out against the bad balls. This was the time when the initiative was handed over to the Indians. It was an uphill struggle after that.

I would not blame the tail enders as it is not their job to score runs. They do score more than their fair share. Yet again, 7 out of 10 batsmen getting out scored more than 10. But no one over 35.

The bowlers did a reasonable holding job. That is what they normally do quite well. There mettle would be tested if the batsmen ever give them 250 to bowl with.

Finally, this is the first time, I would say I am not happy with Whatmore. I do not mind the experimenting. Bashar opening, fine. Razzak opening, fine. It accords with my thinking of taking the pace out of the game. Note the spinners were far more economical. Rafique was hit for 3 sixes ! Yes, but the batsmen then have to take that extra bit of risk.

My gripe with Whatmore is to do with the left handers. Faisal and Rana went in as 5 and 6. Why not one of them near the top so that the opposing bowlers have to contend with a left-right combination. If not 1 or 2, then, at least, no. 3.

Dropping Tapash completely baffles me. If I had to keep one pacer, it would be him as he at least looks like taking wickets. In the WI, in one ODI he took 4. Between, Mushfiq and Mahmud , I would still have gone for Mushfiq. Though, today Mahmud did no worse than anyone else.

My changes for the SL match would be to bring back Tapash for Tareq [ we do not have the luxury of buying a wicket at 7 runs an over for 7 overs ]. I continue to advocate Saleh to be dropped. Today, he got the ultimate "Test match" situation when he walked in. He scoffed it badly. He has to go now. I would push Faisal up the order.

And then pray.
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  #13  
Old July 21, 2004, 08:24 AM
chinaman chinaman is offline
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Dear Imtiaz

May we publish this as a front page article? Thanks.
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  #14  
Old July 21, 2004, 08:28 AM
vv_sunil vv_sunil is offline
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excellent analysis by Imtiaz.

I agree with him. I would like to point-out some points here:

1) Look, Razzaq in new role today and he performed well without showing any nervessnous (he is playing only his third match, sharing new and adventurous responsibility, first over gone for 23 runs, bowling to world class batsmen, spinning with shining ball). He kepts his mind cool and played his natural game under tremendous pressure. That shows his mental strength and still repeat that unless and untill BD batsmen show such kind of mental strength, they will let down millions of bangladeshi fans again

2) Bashar is not good for opening. Try with Javed (when he fits) and Rana. Javed proved he is an ideal opener (some others still think otherwise) and Rana proved his capabalities earlier.

3) Move Ashraful to middle order. He is more useful there and i believe he can play his natural game there without any pressure. let him play his natural game, team needs it. anyway he will get his chance as frontline batsmen still not performing

4) Include Foisal in the playing eleven - he is showing confidence and he needs experience to mature. let him make a permanent player of the team

5) Drop Kapali - he is enjoying in the team since a long time. his time is over and he should be sacked at any cost now

6) Give confidence to Razaqq - he is bowling well and try to boost his confidence in all possible way. let things not to happen that he is a one tour wonder

7) Rajin - needs a break.... only a break, he will come back to the team. if he recovers his confidence and touch, he will be the Rahuld Dravid of BD

8) Tarek - dont spoil him. he bowled well after his first over.

9) Taposh - his ommission from today's squad will spoil his confidence. he is required in the team

What do you people think?
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  #15  
Old July 21, 2004, 08:38 AM
capslock capslock is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by vv_sunil
excellent analysis by Imtiaz.

I agree with him. I would like to point-out some points here:

1) Look, Razzaq in new role today and he performed well without showing any nervessnous (he is playing only his third match, sharing new and adventurous responsibility, first over gone for 23 runs, bowling to world class batsmen, spinning with shining ball). He kepts his mind cool and played his natural game under tremendous pressure. That shows his mental strength and still repeat that unless and untill BD batsmen show such kind of mental strength, they will let down millions of bangladeshi fans again

2) Bashar is not good for opening. Try with Javed (when he fits) and Rana. Javed proved he is an ideal opener (some others still think otherwise) and Rana proved his capabalities earlier.

3) Move Ashraful to middle order. He is more useful there and i believe he can play his natural game there without any pressure. let him play his natural game, team needs it. anyway he will get his chance as frontline batsmen still not performing

4) Include Foisal in the playing eleven - he is showing confidence and he needs experience to mature. let him make a permanent player of the team

5) Drop Kapali - he is enjoying in the team since a long time. his time is over and he should be sacked at any cost now

6) Give confidence to Razaqq - he is bowling well and try to boost his confidence in all possible way. let things not to happen that he is a one tour wonder

7) Rajin - needs a break.... only a break, he will come back to the team. if he recovers his confidence and touch, he will be the Rahuld Dravid of BD

8) Tarek - dont spoil him. he bowled well after his first over.

9) Taposh - his ommission from today's squad will spoil his confidence. he is required in the team

What do you people think?


Good points all, but the fact remains that the runs just aren't coming, no matter what we do, we rarely score ODI 50's, let's not even talk about centuries since the last one scored was 3 years ago by a now all but retired player.


Maybe we need to come up with a version of cricket that doesn't have any batting.
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  #16  
Old July 21, 2004, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rockpundit
Seriously , you cant blame anyone for that runout... They were both under pressure and this kind of thing happens regularly in cricket...
yes i agree with u also..
n i will say that it wasnt just Ash's runout that resulted out of the pressure.. rather i think the whole collaps is due to high degree of pressure on the team to perform well...

all the criticism all over the cricket-sphere and specially frm some leading nations hav got our inexperienced boys completely stressed out!
Whatmore, so far has been able to keep it cool for them.
I remember.. the first thing whatmore did in the last 1 year or so .. was to take off the load from them that they must not play for winning only.. rather perform better!!
that has allowed the space for them to explore their own abilities.. the good result of which we hav all seen!
probably its not yet time we start expecting wins from our team.. because the stress is only doing harm to their performance!

[Edited on 21-7-2004 by crickethorizon]
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  #17  
Old July 21, 2004, 09:32 AM
Imtiaz Imtiaz is offline
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Default To Chinaman

Of course, please do.

Imtiaz
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  #18  
Old July 21, 2004, 10:11 AM
chinaman chinaman is offline
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Dear Imtiaz

Please stay online few more min. I'll send you couple of u2us (refresh the screen to view at the upper right corner). Thanks
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  #19  
Old July 21, 2004, 10:13 AM
rafiq rafiq is offline
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I didn't watch bangladesh bowling. But my perception from watching them play live for the first time since last year's WC is that the entire team seems tired of cricket. They are lacking the spark that we associated with their very good performances over the last year. Hopefully this is temporary.

Whatmore may have just wanted to give all the players a game, and this is the match he decided to throw them in. Our target for victory should be the Pakistan match, they look beatable if we play our best game.

I wanted to see 3 spinners in there but looking at the scorecard I am not sure we can be competitive with this lineup. One criticism of Whatmore is that he needs to settle down on who plays where, it's about time. For the next match, my changes would be to bring back Tapash and Mushfiq for Tareq and Sujon (why can't he sit a game?). If they go back to 3 pacers then Rana has to sit - notice that Razzak can bat, too. When Javed gets fit we may need to drop Rajin to keep Faisal. Alok has had a better tournament than Rajin so far, why would you drop him?
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  #20  
Old July 21, 2004, 10:14 AM
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Dear Imtiaz

I sent a private U2U message to you. Please check the u2u from the upper right hand corner of any forum page. You have to be logged in and may need to refresh the page to see the u2u.
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  #21  
Old July 21, 2004, 12:44 PM
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as someone told, we are not to expect to win yet. agreed. but all we wanted is a fight. some differences from the last time we played asia cup. they did improved too, but thats natural. a weaker team has much more oppertunity to improve. compare this with this scenerio: with a jungle full of fruits, a team who is picking them up for years will usually ran out easily pickable fruits and will gradually take longer and longer to pick up fruits. but a team who just started doing that in a new jungle, has more fruits that is easily reachable. so, the difference of bangladesh's improvement should be easily visible. a loose of 30 runs margin or 3 wicket could be told a competitive match. and now a days 170s are not fighting score. they need to cross the 250 mark.

there are few things that i think is not right in the team:
* giving tapash a break. there are several other players in the team who can really use it, why tapash?
* to name a few who can really use the break: alok, rajin, mushfiq.
* Rajjak should bat up in the order.
* When JO comes back he should open with rana, right now it should be rana-ash.
* Fasial should keep playing.
* chacha is a better prospect now than many of his mates. when this happens, almost rejectable players play better than newcomers, where is the space for hope?

This lineup will do much better than other, i'm sure:

1. Rana
2. Ash
3. Suman
4. Rajin (just watch this tournamnet before making a decision)
5. Faisal
6. Pilot
7. Rajjak
8. Sujon
9. Rafiq
10. Mushfiq (need his bowling)
11. Tapash

a bit of too much suffle, but will come handly very soon. we have 4 lefty playing in the team, thats a all time maximum for us. we need to utilize it.
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  #22  
Old July 21, 2004, 02:17 PM
the_wall the_wall is offline
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I actually waz trying to find the right word to describe the performance of bangladesh against india. I think rafiq probably used the right word. TIRED. They really did not seem as energetic in the feild as the really were in the previous tournaments. I say previus tournaments because even in the first round of the Asia cup, with the exception of razzaq and javed they all seemed lackluster.
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  #23  
Old July 22, 2004, 04:08 PM
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BushidoTiger BushidoTiger is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by vv_sunil
excellent analysis by Imtiaz.

I agree with him. I would like to point-out some points here:

1) Look, Razzaq in new role today and he performed well without showing any nervessnous (he is playing only his third match, sharing new and adventurous responsibility, first over gone for 23 runs, bowling to world class batsmen, spinning with shining ball)........

What do you people think?

-Most objective observation so far..!! Couldn't agree more!
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  #24  
Old July 23, 2004, 01:03 AM
rafiq rafiq is offline
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I also agree with vv_sunil's observation of how well razzak did to come in and bowl tight in that situation. He has had an excellent tournament so far, the chucking distraction notwithstanding.

I like the agent's lineup actually. If JO is still out, it seems balancesd. However Rajin should sit ahead of Kapali only because the latter is clearly in better form - he looked fine against India except for the one suicide slash.

I also think Whatmore should play the same team in the next two matches for some consistency with JO returning to the lineup when he is available. The many changes in the last few games has got to be an energy drainer for the players as no one is sure of their place or where they will bat. I thought this team had already gone through that in the past.
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