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  #101  
Old September 9, 2009, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MohammedC
Just watched part of England innings and clearly saw why they want to replace 50 over match with 40 overs.

England dont have a clue how to play ODI at this moment.
HHS. England have no clue how to play 20 over games without KP in the line up as well. They need to stop playing Intl cricket and go back to the drawing board and start fresh. 3 years exile will do them good.
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  #102  
Old September 9, 2009, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
Those who don't appreciate T20s obviously fail to notice the high levels of skill involved in this format. One can label it as garbage cricket all one wants, but really, it's the failure of the fan to appreciate the courageous and to applaud the cunning and the aggressive that leads to such garbage statements in the first place. T20s are not merely crash, bang, wallop and as it turns out, many people seem to miss the tenacity, guile and finesse that make a good T20 cricketer. It's all about pacing your game and reacting quick - something that 50 over games don't provide (at least not to the same extent).

ODIs were necessary to propel the game forward, but now we have a format for those who like to go all out and another that tests the endurance of its players. Compare these two formats to ODIs, where the bowler isn't allowed to bowl two deliveries above the shoulder (T20s make up for this through other means) and where middle overs are as dead as the average dead man. In this day, 50 over cricket is nothing but a half measure.

The thrills of watching a Test match are incomparable to watching a game of any other format; the thrills of watching a T20 ranks greater than that of watching an ODI, if one has the ability to fathom and appreciate its beauty.
definitely t20 has its skills, no denying that. initially i was of the belief it was skill-less. but heck, NASCAR requires skill, doesn't mean its an engaging endeavor.

to each his own of course.

but i, personally at least, disagree with the winning notion. i'm sure most BD fans are against t20s cuz we suck at it. but even should we become a world beater, i still wouldn't care much. i'm not saying i want us to lose t20s when we play, but i really don't care about it.

test cricket is where its at, everyone agrees to that. hence, everyone agrees on the classic skill components of cricket. ODIs change that a bit, and t20s change it all teh way. t20 has departed so much from the origins of test cricket, that in a sense you could call it a completely different sport altogether. in a sense.

bottom line is, the day that ODIs will become extinct, i'll basically only be a Test cricket follower. may God prevent such a travesty.

people are confusing supposed excitement of T20 cricket with IPL's success. do we really think that crowds will line up to buy tickets in Mohali for a 20 over clash between South Africa and England? umm, no.

the IPL is a success, because its indian, and india holds more than 70% of world cricket's fans and by extension dollars. indian players play most of the matches and earn the biggest contracts and not to mention endorsements. had it been the English or Australian Premier League we'd see the real story behind it. ODIs are still well attended in nearly every part of the world when the home team is playing, especially in the subcontinent. its because no one really cares for a neutral match - which occurs in T20s as well - that there is this feeling that ODIs are "boring".

the IPL's success is responsible for offering the delusion that T20Is are the format that will bring limited overs cricket back. i don't think so. how many T20I matches not involving bangladesh do you really watch? how many matches between New Zealand and West Indies do Indian cricket fans really watch? how many fans watch them??
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Last edited by al Furqaan; September 9, 2009 at 09:49 PM..
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  #103  
Old September 10, 2009, 01:01 AM
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T20 is to test cricket what hundred meter sprint is to marathon, and ODI can be compared to the five hundred meter race. If you really think you can win the hundred meter sprint without having real skills, try explaining that to Usain Bolt and the rest of the sports world. If hard hitting and quick scoring on a consistent basis didn't require extra ordinary skills, then Viv Richards must've been an average batsman who just got lucky every time he batted. If you think it's easy to score 160-170 runs in 20 overs against quality bowling attack, that's because you've never played competitive cricket.

The game plan for ODIs these days is pretty clear-- score 70-100 runs in the first fifteen overs, another 70-100 runs in the last ten, while "nerdling and edging" their way -- as Gaurav Kalra appropriately describes -- to score another 100 in the middle 25 overs. These middle overs are totally devoid of any life, intensity or excitement. As AsifTheMan mentioned, you can pretty much fall asleep for couple of hours and not miss a beat. If you don't believe me I dare you to watch all seven ODIs between Aus and England. I watched the last 20 overs of Australian batting today. What's interesting is Aussies were in total control with 8 wickets in hand and you knew they could've easily won with 10-12 overs to spare. But you got this weird feeling the players kept dilly dallying just for the sake of using up their alloted quota and maybe also to raise/protect their ODI averages. As a sports fan used to seeing players giving 110% in most other sports, it was disturbing to witness players out there from both sides settling for a compromise and not even giving 70%.

This sort of effort must not be confused with the toughness, strength, grit and endurance that is often incorporated in building a great test innings. Rather this is "breeding mediocrity" and "creating bits and pieces cricketers" such as "Chris Harris, Robin Singh, Mark Ealham, Tom Moody and many more who had long and forgettable careers." Also, "A mountain of impressive statistics were created but those were rewards for longevity above skill." There's a problem with the mindset of too many ODI players these days. How do you explain SA chasing down 434 in 50 overs? Was it because the wicket was flat? That couldn't have been the only reason, many ODIs these days are played on similar batting friendly wickets. It was a classic case of both teams trying their best and laying it all on the line. It could be due to the tough international schedule players have to deal with or it could be due to the odd length of the game, it just seems like players are no longer able to consistently sustain high skill levels in ODIs--which wasn't the case in the past when we witnessed far more quality ODI matches than we do today--and that's why T20 is quickly taking its place and deservedly so.

Last edited by zman; September 10, 2009 at 01:33 AM..
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  #104  
Old September 10, 2009, 02:27 AM
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Surprised.
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  #105  
Old September 11, 2009, 07:57 AM
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ICC looking at four 25-over innings in ODIs
http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/content/c...ry/424523.html

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  #106  
Old September 11, 2009, 11:27 AM
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Pretty interesting view points from Peter Rebouk.

Quote:
Fifty-over cricket has been more sinned against than sinning. Sometimes the cricket community forgets that it exists not for itself but its public. Reporters occasionally forget that though they might cover 35 ODIs a year, most spectators get one chance. The weariness exists mostly in our minds
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  #107  
Old September 11, 2009, 12:31 PM
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I think an important piece of information that gets lost amongst the discussion of the formats is that ODI and T20 both came about due to DEMAND and not some new thing which all of a sudden gained popularity. ODIs came about because Test cricket makes it impossible to hold multinational tournaments or World Cups and then Packer revolutionized it by seeing the value in it. Same goes for T20. ODIs were not drawing in the crowds in the county and T20 was born. Subsequently, the T20 worldcup, ICL and IPL all revolutionized the format and now we have 3 versions of cricket to deal with.

In short, it is less accurate to say that T20 is a danger for ODI and Tests than it is to say T20 was born out of a demand based on the danger ODI and Test is in.

Unless the above is acknowledged, it is easy to lose sight of the important issue here: ODIs (I'll leave Tests out of it for now) are nto meeting the public demand in its correct form. Either the format needs to be tweaked or the schedules need to be revised but somethng does need to change.

Personally I would abolish the whole bi-lateral concept for ODI and let everything climax in the World Cup. There should be a long drawn out qualification proceess between the world cups in order to bring back importance to matches. We already have an IND/SL match tomorrow and possibly 3 ENG/AUS matches that will mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING (should AUS secure the series 4-0). There needs to be a consistancy in the number of games played by the teams. Afghanistan impressed the world by gaining ODI status and how many ODIs have they played against a test nation so far? What has been ireland's reward in setting themselves head and shoulder's above the other associates? What did Kenya get after making the SEMI FINALS of a world cup?

If you ask me, its more the scheduling of the format than it is the format itself.
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  #108  
Old September 14, 2009, 03:07 AM
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Thought of Simon Barnes, chief sports writer of UK Times, on the topic -

One-day international cricket has been rendered a crashing bore

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle6833371.ece

I was watching the present series of one-day internationals between England and Australia in a strange, glassy-eyed state — one in which the very awfulness of the proceedings brought about a state of altered consciousness — and suddenly I was enlightened. At a stroke, I understood what was going on. One-day international cricket has turned into billiards.

Remember one-day cricket in the old days? The batsmen would go out to get a big score by means of big shots and the bowlers would try to get them out. Lord, how naive we all were in those days!

The game has been rumbled. The players have worked it out. As a result, now that 50 overs is the standard format for a one-day international, we have a period between the end of the fifteenth over and the start of the 41st in which the batters tip and tap their way on in nudged and nurdled singles that the fielding side are perfectly happy to concede. Meanwhile, the bowlers send down slowed-down seamers or speeded-up spinners, aimed to prevent boundaries and there, by definition, to permit singles.

It’s become a convention, a sort of non-aggression pact, a Christmas truce that lasts for 25 overs. You score at 4.2 an over in this period and try to restrict the opposition to 3.7. You don’t score too fast and we won’t bowl too nastily. As a result, on Saturday England scored 95 runs during the truce period.

It’s something that happens in sport. Players just work it out and confound the intentions of the rule-makers. Take billiards. Billiards was destroyed as a spectacle and as a contest by the invention of the cradle cannon. This was a way of exploiting the rules, one that allowed the player who has succeeded in gathering and holding the balls to score endlessly. Almost literally. In 1907, Tom Reece set the record. Over five weeks he compiled a break of 499,135 points, by means of 249,552 consecutive cannons. The shot was subsequently legislated out.

Such things are in the nature of sport. Players crack the format. In football, offside was introduced to stop attackers pinching an advantage; it has now become a way in which defenders pinch an advantage. Barnes’s Law: if there’s a weakness in the rules or the format, the players will find it out and then exploit it.

As a result of Barnes’s Law, 50-over cricket is now a busted flush. It is a game that has been totally worked out, to the extent that, like billiards, it has become nearly unplayable and all but unwatchable.

Well-meaning tinkering — fielding restrictions, the bowling power-play, the batting power-play, the super-sub — fail to disguise the fact that 50-over cricket is obsolete. The players have become too clever, too competent, too conniving.

There’s now talk of reducing the standard format by taking ten overs away. It’s obvious what should happen: take away 30 overs. Twenty20 cricket is great, Test cricket is great, the one-day international is rubbish. But cricket is driven by a combination of fear and revenue so that won’t be happening any time soon. So here’s a treat: we have three more one-day internationals this summer. Tune in, turn up and watch them go through the motions.
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  #109  
Old September 14, 2009, 06:28 AM
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Welcome to England. When England does well in ODI/Test/T20 English paper will have the news in front page. (in England sports headline normally goes on back page)
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  #110  
Old September 16, 2009, 03:39 AM
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Pak Passion has posted a long conversation with Osman Samiuddin on T20 vs OD debate, very though provocative I must say.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...ad.php?t=82674
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  #111  
Old September 16, 2009, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
Pak Passion has posted a long conversation with Osman Samiuddin on T20 vs OD debate, very though provocative I must say.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...ad.php?t=82674
I disagree with everything that ahsanib mentioned.
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  #112  
Old September 17, 2009, 02:07 AM
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Champions Trophy will prove ODIs belong - Haroon Lorgat - ICC Boss!!

Osman Samiuddin
September 16, 2009
Cricinfo Link

The ICC is confident that the Champions Trophy in South Africa will prove that 50-over cricket remains a relevant format in cricket's shifting worldscape of greater financial reward and less time.

The tournament begins in Johannesburg on September 22, amid increasing questions about its significance in the game. The ECB has scrapped its domestic 50-over tournament and the ongoing ODI series between Australia and England has been widely derided in England as a poor afterthought; South Africa, according to the ICC's cricket manager Dave Richardson, may be toying with the idea of a four-innings format domestically, where each team bats twice, an idea that has found favour with Sachin Tendulkar, one of 50-over cricket's greatest batsmen. The ICC itself may look at the idea and some, like Anil Kumble, suggest making it a 40-over game. Others have called for scrapping the format altogether.

But the ICC believes a shorter, sharper Champions Trophy can prove that reports of ODI cricket's death have been exaggerated. "In the context of 50-over cricket this is an important tournament," Haroon Lorgat, chief executive ICC, said in a teleconference.

"It reminds me of a year ago when people were talking about the death of Test cricket, with no crowds being there and so on. Similarly with the ODI, I think we are maybe running ahead of ourselves. Look at England where there is a lot of interest still in the ODI series despite England being so far behind Australia, crowds are still turning up. Similarly in the recent tri-series in Sri Lanka. We will see here, with the Champions Trophy, that there is a place for the ODI format in cricket."

The glut of ODIs, rather than the format itself, is often seen as the real problem. Though there is little the ICC can do about bilateral arrangements for seven-match ODIs and hastily-arranged tri-series, members have been told to keep in mind the problems of excess in the ongoing discussions to shape a new FTP. "These arrangements are made bilaterally by members," Lorgat said. "But in the current FTP discussions we always talk to members of the importance of a balance [between the formats]. We're mindful and cognisant of it. The current FTP is a work in progress and we need to be aware of the balance during that."

Lorgat also suggested that there will not be too much tinkering with the format or introduction of innovations until the cricket committee gets together next May. "From an innovations point of view, we're always looking for new, exciting things. The batting Powerplay is a good example but we do not want to do too many things too quickly. Between the Champions Trophy and the 2011 World Cup, we are more in the mindset of retaining the format. Experts are in place on the cricket committee but I think we can leave it till next May."

The confidence within the ICC about the future of ODIs stems in part from the belief that they may finally, after years of trying, have hit on the right formula for the much-decried Champions Trophy. The event is much more streamlined than past editions, with only eight teams, all based at one venue. "We recognised that the tournament needed a bit of refreshing and relevance to ensure that it is a best of the best. We have made it a destination event where teams and everyone can settle in at one location for the whole event beginning to end and there is no routine of practice, play and fly again."

There is also greater prize money at stake and the lesser number of teams means most games will have something at stake. "There is differentiation in this Champions Trophy," Lorgat said, "and we are confident that we will see ODI cricket as a relevant format through this."
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  #113  
Old September 17, 2009, 08:14 AM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
Thought of Simon Barnes, chief sports writer of UK Times, on the topic -

One-day international cricket has been rendered a crashing bore

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle6833371.ece

I was watching the present series of one-day internationals between England and Australia in a strange, glassy-eyed state — one in which the very awfulness of the proceedings brought about a state of altered consciousness — and suddenly I was enlightened. At a stroke, I understood what was going on. One-day international cricket has turned into billiards.

Remember one-day cricket in the old days? The batsmen would go out to get a big score by means of big shots and the bowlers would try to get them out. Lord, how naive we all were in those days!

The game has been rumbled. The players have worked it out. As a result, now that 50 overs is the standard format for a one-day international, we have a period between the end of the fifteenth over and the start of the 41st in which the batters tip and tap their way on in nudged and nurdled singles that the fielding side are perfectly happy to concede. Meanwhile, the bowlers send down slowed-down seamers or speeded-up spinners, aimed to prevent boundaries and there, by definition, to permit singles.

It’s become a convention, a sort of non-aggression pact, a Christmas truce that lasts for 25 overs. You score at 4.2 an over in this period and try to restrict the opposition to 3.7. You don’t score too fast and we won’t bowl too nastily. As a result, on Saturday England scored 95 runs during the truce period.

It’s something that happens in sport. Players just work it out and confound the intentions of the rule-makers. Take billiards. Billiards was destroyed as a spectacle and as a contest by the invention of the cradle cannon. This was a way of exploiting the rules, one that allowed the player who has succeeded in gathering and holding the balls to score endlessly. Almost literally. In 1907, Tom Reece set the record. Over five weeks he compiled a break of 499,135 points, by means of 249,552 consecutive cannons. The shot was subsequently legislated out.

Such things are in the nature of sport. Players crack the format. In football, offside was introduced to stop attackers pinching an advantage; it has now become a way in which defenders pinch an advantage. Barnes’s Law: if there’s a weakness in the rules or the format, the players will find it out and then exploit it.

As a result of Barnes’s Law, 50-over cricket is now a busted flush. It is a game that has been totally worked out, to the extent that, like billiards, it has become nearly unplayable and all but unwatchable.

Well-meaning tinkering — fielding restrictions, the bowling power-play, the batting power-play, the super-sub — fail to disguise the fact that 50-over cricket is obsolete. The players have become too clever, too competent, too conniving.

There’s now talk of reducing the standard format by taking ten overs away. It’s obvious what should happen: take away 30 overs. Twenty20 cricket is great, Test cricket is great, the one-day international is rubbish. But cricket is driven by a combination of fear and revenue so that won’t be happening any time soon. So here’s a treat: we have three more one-day internationals this summer. Tune in, turn up and watch them go through the motions.
this guy apparently wants it both ways. he wants teams to score loads of runs, but no singles to be taken. is that what cricket is all about these days, boundaries? how immaturely naive!

there is always a risk benefit ratio on offer. this guy would do well to study american sports, if he doesn't know this already.

in basketball, for example, an opposing coach might have instructed his players to play off Allen Iverson. his career 40 odd field goal percentage would justify that. make him beat you with the jumper, but don't give him easy lay ups in the paint. let him go 12-30 from the field and score 30 points, but thats the key, you've made him take 30 inefficient shots to score 30 points.

in football, if you have a untested QB, make him beat you with his arm. force him to throw the ball, put 8 men in the box and deter the running game. or conversly, make them run at you, give 2,3 yards per carry. just don't let them throw for big yardage.

its all about giving something so you can take something else.
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  #114  
Old September 17, 2009, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
this guy apparently wants it both ways.
With kids like layperson and Gopal with a history of premature ejaculation...you really shouldn't be saying stuff like this in the public forum.
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  #115  
Old September 17, 2009, 10:48 AM
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Sorry for my language but this dumb a$$ Barnes wouldn't be complaining had England managed to win 3 games. They it would be "o'my, what a contest." His betting money got a hit I presume. Sorry England team has forced ECB and MCC bad mouth ODIs just because they have better access to tabloids. Trying to find a way to have an advantage over minnows cause only against them they can be competitive.
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  #116  
Old September 17, 2009, 12:49 PM
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England team itself is a minnow team with better past.

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