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  #26  
Old March 12, 2006, 07:02 PM
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LateCut LateCut is offline
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I agree with Akram Khan in that Rahim should not have been put in an impossible situation. Talents should be nurtured not squandered by bad decisions and misuse. One thing that I don't understand is that why DW supports his inclusion in the team. May be he is the one pulling the strings!

Also, the fact that Shahadat is improving did not escape anybodies attention. I am also glad that he did not mention Tapash as he does not seem to figure in BD cricket anymore. He is already in the books as the ODI's most expensive bowling average (12+) for anybody bowling over 5 over. So, bye, bye Mr. Baishya.
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  #27  
Old March 12, 2006, 07:28 PM
Sham Sham is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheWatcher
The saddest part of all this talks about Rahim is that our dear BanglaCricket advisers and experts had nothing to say before the match regarding Rahim's inclusion in the playing eleven. It was us, silly Rahim fans, who expressed their doubts that Rahim could be a wrong choice for that match.

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This is getting even sillier than i though possible!

The saddest part about this whole episode isnt the fact that we played one of our most talented players in a Test match before giving him time to settle into longer-version cricket, the saddest thing isn't that we are risking destroying the careers of our most talented young players by pushing them into the Test team after a handful of first class games, the saddest thing isn't that we are bandying around with our batting order without a damn thought or strategy, NO, what is the saddest thing?

the adviser of banglacricket, that being I, failed to post in a particular thread about the possible downsides to Rahim's inclusion!

My lord! Are you guys even serious?

How many threads do I have to post in to say that I always was, am and always will be against the idea of pushing talented youngsters into the Test team too early? I have said it countless times even during this series.

After the guy gets picked in the playing XI, what the hell is the point in saying it anymore? Better get behind the guy and hope he does well.

The people who supported Rahim's inclusion all along were then expressing their doubts about his selection AFTER he gets selected! Firstly, make up your minds. And secondly, I think you guys were just covering your backsides in case the kid didn't do well! How typical!

Edited on, March 13, 2006, 12:30 AM GMT, by Sham.
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  #28  
Old March 12, 2006, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fazal
Quote:
Originally posted by TheWatcher
The saddest part of all this talks about Rahim is that our dear BanglaCricket advisers and experts had nothing to say before the match regarding Rahim's inclusion in the playing eleven. It was us, silly Rahim fans, who expressed their doubts that Rahim could be a wrong choice for that match.

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Thanks TheWatcher for pointing that out. Thats why I asked those people to see their own face in the mirror before calling other people stupid.
When I asked before the game :
Quote:
Originally posted by Fazal
The only concern is local newspaper claims that he is pretty weak against Spinners. Anyone can validate or invalidate the claim?
None of the so-called intellegent self claimed experts had any clue or bothered to experess their opinionabout his technical weakness against spin or fb. Now after the fact that he failed... they want Rahim fan's head and calling names... now if we need to call anyone stupid guess what who is the real stupid... its not real hard to identify.
Many of us who were against Rahim's inclusion kept repeating: "he's young - he's not yet had enough exposure to FC cricket or List A. Give him time to round off his game". While we may not have known that he is weak against spin bowling - doesn't that kinda prove the point? If he is given a few more years of exposre, weakness against spin or any other forms of bowling will be found out and rectified.

Going ga ga goo over a 19 year old boy who had 2 good innings against depleted county attacks, and whose biggest strength so far has been willingness to soak in the pressure (be it for u-19 or the Lords match), that to me is the sign of stupidity.

I really wonder how many of the Rahim pushers here played cricket or do so regularly now. Note I am not calling you guys Rahim "lovers" rather "pushers"; heck I am a big fan of the kid too - I just happen care enough for this kid to want him to get the proper build up to Test cricket that he deserves.
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  #29  
Old March 12, 2006, 07:42 PM
Tehsin Tehsin is offline
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Sham - from now on, can you please make sure that you post in every single thread that are opened in the forum, even if it means repeating yourself. I do not want to hear any excuses.

------
Thanks for the laughs people. I love this childish posts, keeps me going for hours).
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  #30  
Old March 12, 2006, 07:51 PM
Sham Sham is offline
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Sure thing boss!
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  #31  
Old March 12, 2006, 07:55 PM
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তেহসিন ভাই আসলে ঠিকি বলেছেন৷ আছিলাম বোকা হইলাম বুদ্ধিমান
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  #32  
Old March 12, 2006, 08:14 PM
Tehsin Tehsin is offline
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Eto budhdhi diya etodiney matro 4 ta test team ke haraite parla. Kenya'r bhoye pura board akhon taalmatal, budhdhi khataya ekta fullproof plan suggest koro - Dav chacha'r (since the original chacha retired, Dav has proved himself to be capable and eager to own the nick) kache email pathamu.
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  #33  
Old March 12, 2006, 08:22 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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RazabQ, I know your position on Rahim. My comments are not towards people who opposed Rahim's inclusion at this time and express their opinion before or after his failure in the last test, but rather for people who doesn't go the length to explain why they think that way but use one liner like people x or y are stupid supporting Rahim’s inclusion. To me it doesn't bring anything into the table and shut down any civil conversation between two opinions.

Fans are supposed to go ga ga goo over a player (either its 19 year old boy or 32 years old man) based on their liking. What is has to do with stupidity? You have all the right to think the way you want, that shouldn’t give you (or me) the ethical right to start calling people right or left stupid. As a Moderator, do you think that the norm you want to set here? Then just tell us... we can also start calling people stupid left and right... or you think only few people have that privilege only. Then just mention it who are the privileged one.

btw ... whether we play cricket or not, which level of criket we played has nothing to do with expressing our opinion here; at least that what I thought until now. And unlike what you are thinking , our logic (inclusion of Rahim) was more in sync with the Selectors and Coach Dav who have 1000 times more experience than any of us. Of course the gamble failed for now. Atleast we are not that much off base as some of you think. Don't you think we should be more careful before using calling names to other fellow members like 'stupid' , etc ? What value does it bring to the table?

You guys: the MODs, the senior members make up your mind, what kind of standard do you want to setup here? Jee Hojur kind of group who always agrees with the so called elite know all members, otherwise they will be tagged as stupid... that’s the best you guys can offer here?

As for me I am re-evaluating my stay here... because if I stay here , I will always bring the new point of view here... whether its unpopular, unsophisticated or not atel enough by the elite group. Looks like either I am not smart enough for you guys, or you guys are not ready for people like me.

Just tell me, I will leave without any hassle here. But one thing for sure, as long as I stay here, I will protest whenever people call names , …. Because to me that’s not only show the bad choice of words or taste, but very destructive for constructive debate between two groups of people with different views.

However I have to say I am kind of disappointed the way things are going here now…

Edited on, March 13, 2006, 1:29 AM GMT, by Fazal.
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  #34  
Old March 12, 2006, 08:37 PM
mafizraju mafizraju is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fazal
RazabQ, I know your position on Rahim. My comments are not towards people who opposed Rahim's inclusion at this time and express their opinion before or after his failure in the last test, but rather for people who doesn't go the length to explain why they think that way but use one liner like people x or y are stupid supporting Rahim’s inclusion. To me it doesn't bring anything into the table and shut down any civil conversation between two opinions.

Fans are supposed to go ga ga goo over a player (either its 19 year old boy or 32 years old man) based on their liking. What is has to do with stupidity? You have all the right to think the way you want, that shouldn’t give you (or me) the ethical right to start calling people right or left stupid. As a Moderator, do you think that the norm you want to set here? Then just tell us... we can also start calling people stupid left and right... or you think only few people have that privilege only. Then just mention it who are the privileged one.

btw ... whether we play cricket or not, which level of criket we played has nothing to do with expressing our opinion here; at least that what I thought until now. And unlike what you are thinking , our logic (inclusion of Rahim) was more in sync with the Selectors and Coach Dav who have 1000 times more experience than any of us. Of course the gamble failed for now. Atleast we are not that much off base as some of you think. Don't you think we should be more careful before using calling names to other fellow members like 'stupid' , etc ? What value does it bring to the table?

You guys: the MODs, the senior members make up your mind, what kind of standard do you want to setup here? Jee Hojur kind of group who always agrees with the so called elite know all members, otherwise they will be tagged as stupid... that’s the best you guys can offer here?

As for me I am re-evaluating my stay here... because if I stay here , I will always bring the new point of view here... whether its unpopular, unsophisticated or not atel enough by the elite group. Looks like either I am not smart enough for you guys, or you guys are not ready for people like me.

Just tell me, I will leave without any hassle here. But one thing for sure, as long as I stay here, I will protest whenever people call names , …. Because to me that’s not only show the bad choice of words or taste, but very destructive for constructive debate between two groups of people with different views.

However I have to say I am kind of disappointed the way things are going here now…

Edited on, March 13, 2006, 1:29 AM GMT, by Fazal.

I support you completely. But still I dont want to see rahim getting picked again or in the retrospective any youngster withour proper exposure....................



One note Fazal Bhai : Just because I and Einstein have one case similarity doesnot prove I know as much as Einstein or in that matter as much as schordinger. ( JUST like I am no Wasim Akram although on rohim case me and him we both agree)

Hope you will stay here and will pump me up with more and more ragefull (is that even a word?) comment and points of vies. FOr sure he didnot want to offend you
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  #35  
Old March 12, 2006, 08:38 PM
mafizraju mafizraju is offline
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I beleive we all should stop name calling even during the outmost frustration
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  #36  
Old March 12, 2006, 08:56 PM
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Fazal, I am going to largely ignore that post because I honestly don't know whether you are too stupid for us or we are too stupid for you.

But there is one point I am going to pick up on and reply to.

You said that those who have been against Rahim's inclusion haven't provided any basis for that position. I cannot agree with you at all. We have done that and continue to do it. But just for your convenience, I am going to rehash it all again.

First misconception you guys have about our position is that we are questioning Rahim's ability. Now I said from the outset that two innings in which he didnt even get going says nothing about Rahim's ability. You guys are now bringing up the issue about his supposed weakness against spin. But I'm not interested in his weakness against spin. He could be the best player of spin bowling in the world for all I care, my opposition to his inclusion is based on matters that are not related to how much talent or ability or skill he has.

In any country, a cricketer learns his trade in domestic cricket and then in A tours. Once he showcases his ability there over a period of time, he is rewarded with a national cap. It is the culmination of years of hard work. In our country, you need to just play two innings against second rate opposition before you are taking on the best at the highest and most testing form of the game. Its just not right!

Now, you may ask, what does Rahim need to do? How many runs does he need to score? Its not really about that. Even when he isnt scoring runs in domestic cricket, playing gives you experience that you can't substitute. Some days, he will go out to bat with his team at 220 for 2, other days he will go into bat with his team 18 for 3! He needs to experience all these different situations. He may go in at 220 for 2 one day with his team still 140 behind, or he may go in at 18 for 3 with his team 120 ahead. How do you play in these different scenarios? He might have a season when everything he hits races to the boundary, and another when he cant get bat to ball. If its the former, he needs to learn how to cash in when the going is good, and if its the latter, he needs to learn how to turn the corner.

These are all situations a batsman must face and experience BEFORE they come into the Test arena so taht when he faces a similar situation in Tests, he will have experience to draw from. Three or four years of grounding in domestic cricket is hugely beneficial. That should be the training ground where you learn your game. Also, if you have performed consistently for 3 or 4 seasons, of course you may still have a bad season here and there, you come in with a lot of confidence that you dont have after one or two big scores.

So, for a whole host of reasons, grounding is important. Its even more important when a player has a lot of talent, because he must learn how to use his talent. Ashraful is one guy who wasnt allowed to learn. He got thrown in, and he has had to learn at the highest level, which is why its taking him so damn long! Players like Tendulkar and Hanif Mohammed are rare. The Kambli's of the world are much more common. So my question remains, why the hurry? Why take that risk? Will Bangladesh cricket lose out big time if we give this kid a few years to learn his trade outside of Test cricket?
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  #37  
Old March 12, 2006, 09:03 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sham

But there is one point I am going to pick up on and reply to.

You said that those who have been against Rahim's inclusion haven't provided any basis for that position. I cannot agree with you at all. We have done that and continue to do it. But just for your convenience, I am going to rehash it all again.
You missed my point. As far as I know I never said those who have been against Rahim's inclusion haven't provided any basis for that position. What I said was some of them didn't spend the time and went for quick low blow calling other 'stupid'. And the other did that any way (after explaining their view point).

My other point was calling names to others created bad atmosphere in this discussion board.

btw I know your position anyway, you (and some other) spend time to elaborate the point of view. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with all of those.

Edited on, March 13, 2006, 2:06 AM GMT, by Fazal.
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  #38  
Old March 12, 2006, 09:10 PM
Sham Sham is offline
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Fair enough, you dont have to agree. But since I've spent the time putting my argument out there, maybe you can elaborate on which bits you don't agree with! Just saying that you dont agree doesnt make you all that much better than those you are faulting for not elaborating their point!
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  #39  
Old March 12, 2006, 09:12 PM
Tehsin Tehsin is offline
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Fazal,

I can say with 100% confidence that not all the mods agree on non mod related (ie cricket issues) issues. There are mods/staff who support Rahim's inclusion while others completely disagree. I see that you have used some strong words. I am a little baffled. How did you even come up with the conclusion that every single mod/staff (and there are a lot) are unison about every single cricket related issue that pops up here. What's the point of having a message board then ? The mods could just open a separate forum and pat each other in the back all day long, why bother getting other members involved ?

BC is all about Bangladesh cricket, it is all about the fans. We care about our cricket and when I say we, I mean every single BD cricket fan who take the time to come to the site and share their thoughts. The thoughts have to be different to have any significance at all and that's why we love coming back to the site - for the different viewpoints posted by the hundreds/thousands of members who visit the site every day, everyone is unique and everyone bring in their own views and thats what makes this place so amazing.

---------------------------------
I agree with you on one point - the use of the word 'stupid' is indeed unfortunate. I'd suggest whoever used the word would utilize the 'edit' feature which is conveniently located on the top right corner of each post.
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  #40  
Old March 12, 2006, 09:18 PM
Tehsin Tehsin is offline
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By the way, I didn't think this needed to be explained but apparantly it does. When Sham or I post here, we posts as MEMBERS. The mod hat is OFF.

I just read Sham's last post. When he said "First misconception you guys have about our position is that we are questioning Rahim's ability", by 'you guys' he meant members who were for Rahim's inclusion and by 'we', he meant MEMBERS who were against Rahim's inclusion. Clearly, this is a debate between opposing member viewpoints.

I do not see how the MODs were dragged into it.
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  #41  
Old March 12, 2006, 09:18 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sham
Fair enough, you dont have to agree. But since I've spent the time putting my argument out there, maybe you can elaborate on which bits you don't agree with! Just saying that you dont agree doesnt make you all that much better than those you are faulting for not elaborating their point!
Whats the point of beating the dead horse? Good locgic was given
by both parties for and against Rahim's inclusion. Obviously it was apparant that he was not technically ready for the TEST yet. I don't believe in age restriction.

Currently I am not in a mood to have debate here in this issue at this moment....right now I am more interested in figuring out more fundamental issue.... the standard/norm of discussion here...
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  #42  
Old March 12, 2006, 09:23 PM
Tehsin Tehsin is offline
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Board Rules




Quote:
Originally posted by Fazal
Whats the point of beating the dead horse? Good locgic was given
by both parties for and against Rahim's inclusion. Obviously it was apparant that he was not technically ready for the TEST yet. I don't believe in age restriction.

Currently I am not in a mood to have debate here in this issue at this moment....right now I am more interested in figuring out more fundamental issue.... the standard/norm of discussion here...
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  #43  
Old March 12, 2006, 09:29 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tehsin
By the way, I didn't think this needed to be explained but apparantly it does. When Sham or I post here, we posts as MEMBERS. The mod hat is OFF.
I understand that, but hypothetically speaking, don't you agree that even with hat is OFF, there is a intimidation factor working for them (knowlingly or unknowingly)?

Therefore shouldn't they be more careful about their choice of word even as a member? Whether MODs like it or not, general members look at MOD (even their hats off) as model citizen and thry to emulate them how to communicate with others respecfully. May be I am expecting too much from the MOD but thats how I used to see them.
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  #44  
Old March 12, 2006, 09:30 PM
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Fazal to add to Tehsin bhai's point, yeah not all Mods think alike. At any rate, I obviously did not preface my post with "As mod", so hopefully it's evident that the opinions were just as myself. Having said that, in second read, I shouldn't have used perhaps the strong language. I saw your posts and lost my head at usage of the term "stupid" a number of times. Was not expected from a senior member like you And yes, you are considered a BC murubba these days

As for my comment about having played or not, obviously someone who hasn't played a bit of cricket or just started watching yesterday can hold an opinion. Everyone has the right to. Rather, I was asking that question because, it would help _explain_ some of the of the positions being expounded here

As for different viewpoints, you should always bring them on board. Just like my opinions are not sacred, neither are yours. Both are open to criticism and ridicule as well as praise.

Sham, good explanation on why nothing beats experience.
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  #45  
Old March 12, 2006, 09:36 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by RazabQ
Having said that, in second read, I shouldn't have used perhaps the strong language. I saw your posts and lost my head at usage of the term "stupid" a number of times. Was not expected from a senior member like you And yes, you are considered a BC murubba these days
Thanks for clarification. However I failed to understand why you lost your head calling back people 'stupid' (of course indirectly) who called us stupid first directly?

Just wondering, why you didn't lost your head to the first offenders ( and direct name calling, no indirect name calling). Was it beacuse he/they were in your side of the argument and therefore somehow that make it ok?


Edited on, March 13, 2006, 2:38 AM GMT, by Fazal.
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  #46  
Old March 12, 2006, 09:50 PM
Tehsin Tehsin is offline
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Understood.

However, this is not a dictatorship. MODs can lose their privilage if they abuse their 'power'. In the 6/7 years that I have been linked with BC, I have rarely seen any MOD misusing their privilage. I have a lot of respect for all of them, even with all the various viewpoints they have.

The mods volunteer their valuable time to BC because of their love and dedication to our cricket and their sole goal is to maintain a clean message board, one that you can bring your parents too.

We also have to realize that they are first and foremost, members of the board. They enjoy discussing BD cricket like you and I. As I said, they have opposing viewpoints and they would like nothing less then a good discussion.

This intimidation factor that you mentioned, I have seen it practiced at other forums and you may have experienced a few of your own. You and I both know that it does not exist in BC. You have made 4286 posts so far. Obviously we have done a great job so far for you to hang around for so long and participating actively.


Quote:
Originally posted by Fazal
I understand that, but hypothetically speaking, don't you agree that even with hat is OFF, there is a intimidation factor working for them (knowlingly or unknowingly)?

Therefore shouldn't they be more careful about their choice of word even as a member? Whether MODs like it or not, general members look at MOD (even their hats off) as model citizen and thry to emulate them how to communicate with others respecfully. May be I am expecting too much from the MOD but thats how I used to see them.
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  #47  
Old March 12, 2006, 10:15 PM
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Fazal, sorry mate, I opened up a can of worm and left you to fight all by yourself. Great arguments there
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  #48  
Old March 12, 2006, 10:30 PM
Tehsin Tehsin is offline
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TheWatcher, shame on you mate, leaving your buddy all alone to defend himself. Expected more out of you.
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  #49  
Old March 12, 2006, 10:36 PM
Pundit Pundit is offline
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I think Sham is the coolest person around. But man, your defense against Rahim's inclusion is getting just a tad too much.

Let it go man. We all know his play didn't turn out to be as expected, and many of us were justified in our speaking out against it.

But lets move on, cool dude. Please write more words about BD cricket in general, and not about one rather insignificant (hopefully) happening. Banglacricket will be far richer in that way.

Just my opinion, shared out of respect.
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  #50  
Old March 13, 2006, 12:40 AM
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Well..............as a novice BC member, I enjoyed the gentlemen-debate.........really liked you all how you guys pulled you legs fisrt, muscled around the neck and finally embraced each other! cool! Hope our Biggo Rajnitibid-ra BC page gula ghurey shikhbey (anyway, this is the word which is absent in their dictionary!! ). LONG LIVE BC!
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