facebook Twitter RSS Feed YouTube StumbleUpon

Home | Forum | Chat | Tours | Articles | Pictures | News | Tools | History | Tourism | Search

 
 


Go Back   BanglaCricket Forum > Cricket > Cricket

Cricket Join fellow Tigers fans to discuss all things Cricket

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 7, 2017, 05:36 AM
SportingBD's Avatar
SportingBD SportingBD is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: December 20, 2016
Location: London, UK
Favorite Player: Mohammad Ashraful
Posts: 3,714
Default ***Captain & Head Coach***

Bad decisions.

Feel like captain and coach not on the same page. The captain wants one thing, the coach wants another. I sense the chemistry between them is not so good. All started after Mahmudullah Riyad got dropped from the test team (brother in law of our captain Mushfiqur).

Secondly, the reluctance to play Liton Das in the XI? Why? Is Mushy afraid of someone else taking the wicket keeping duty? The going after of coach Hathura for not picking Mominul? Even though we all know his been out of form for a long time and has issues with off spinners?

Something must change? What should that be? Change of captain? Change of coach (not saying that should happen). What do you guys think? I feel Mashrafe and Hathura has good chemistry as captain and coach in ODI, don't feel the same for test.
__________________
The tongue is like a Lion. If you let it loose, it will wound someone - Imam Ali (R.A)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old September 7, 2017, 06:30 AM
Feni_Heni Feni_Heni is offline
Street Cricketer
 
Join Date: September 4, 2017
Location: Dhaka
Favorite Player: Shakib Al Hasan
Posts: 18

how did you feel about the coach-captain dynamic after the 1st test?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old September 7, 2017, 06:44 AM
SportingBD's Avatar
SportingBD SportingBD is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: December 20, 2016
Location: London, UK
Favorite Player: Mohammad Ashraful
Posts: 3,714

@Feni_Heni.

The feeling was the same as how I feel now.
I felt the 1st test XI was selected by Head Coach.
The second test XI was the Captains XI.

That's what I felt. The chemistry doesn't really look good.
__________________
The tongue is like a Lion. If you let it loose, it will wound someone - Imam Ali (R.A)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old September 8, 2017, 01:02 PM
SportingBD's Avatar
SportingBD SportingBD is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: December 20, 2016
Location: London, UK
Favorite Player: Mohammad Ashraful
Posts: 3,714

Papon hits back at Mushfiqur!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpvNhA2eO8Y

Lol...

Mushfiq tried to blame the decision of excluding Liton + other changes on Hathura..

That was a damning response from Papon.

If mushy has any shame! he would resign as captain!!!
__________________
The tongue is like a Lion. If you let it loose, it will wound someone - Imam Ali (R.A)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old September 8, 2017, 01:06 PM
SportingBD's Avatar
SportingBD SportingBD is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: December 20, 2016
Location: London, UK
Favorite Player: Mohammad Ashraful
Posts: 3,714

Papon said.. basically...

Mashrafe doesn't have any problem with coach and Shakib will also not have any problems..

Why does Mushfiq only have problem??? the fact he tried to blame his responsility/duty as captain on others?

He has done this things before? nothing new.. in the past he use to blame our bowlers lol..
now he started to blame the coach.. saying like he has no right hahahahah
__________________
The tongue is like a Lion. If you let it loose, it will wound someone - Imam Ali (R.A)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old September 8, 2017, 01:34 PM
SportingBD's Avatar
SportingBD SportingBD is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: December 20, 2016
Location: London, UK
Favorite Player: Mohammad Ashraful
Posts: 3,714

Can you guys IMAGINE???

Mushfiqur the captain leading us in South Africa???
__________________
The tongue is like a Lion. If you let it loose, it will wound someone - Imam Ali (R.A)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old September 8, 2017, 07:50 PM
Fazal's Avatar
Fazal Fazal is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: September 16, 2004
Posts: 17,538

Papon is not saint, but in this issue I agree with him. Mushfiq has a long track record of not owning up his responsibility, picked up (in the past) new comers and throw them under the bus in front of press briefing, support unconditionally his brother-in-law, showed weak mentality, used his captaincy to protect his own turf in a selfish manner, not a good leader for younger players and for their growth, and a "gowar" in a wrong way which is hurting the team.
__________________
"Make Bangladesh Cricket Great Again"
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old September 8, 2017, 08:03 PM
DinRaat. DinRaat. is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: January 30, 2017
Location: Sydney Australia
Favorite Player: AirBus A340
Posts: 3,292

Quote:
Originally Posted by SportingBD
Can you guys IMAGINE???

Mushfiqur the captain leading us in South Africa???
Double Post mods please delete.
__________________
"No replacement,for displacement"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old September 12, 2017, 03:42 PM
aklemalp's Avatar
aklemalp aklemalp is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: September 5, 2009
Location: Guyana,South America
Favorite Player: Kagisoooo & Saif
Posts: 17,767

Quote:
Originally Posted by DinRaat.
Double Post mods please delete.
In the case of double post, you can delete it yourself. Go to Edit. On the edit screen, you will see at the bottom right you will see options of Save, Go Advanced, Delete, and Cancel.

Hit the delete, at the bottom will show 'delete message'. Hit that and your message will be deleted, and you will be redirected to the first post of the thread.

Hope this helps
__________________
"Let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love." - Rumi
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old September 8, 2017, 08:06 PM
DinRaat. DinRaat. is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: January 30, 2017
Location: Sydney Australia
Favorite Player: AirBus A340
Posts: 3,292

Quote:
Originally Posted by SportingBD
Can you guys IMAGINE???

Mushfiqur the captain leading us in South Africa???
Hope he doesn't get injured by the SAfrican quicks.
__________________
"No replacement,for displacement"
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old September 9, 2017, 12:28 AM
godzilla's Avatar
godzilla godzilla is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: March 4, 2009
Posts: 3,337

Quote:
Originally Posted by DinRaat.
Hope he doesn't get injured by the SAfrican quicks.
That would actually be pretty bad. Regardless of his mindless captaincy, he is one of our best batsmen. Him injured = playing with another walking wicket.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old September 8, 2017, 07:55 PM
NoName's Avatar
NoName NoName is offline
Cricket Guru
 
Join Date: April 9, 2011
Location: Sauga
Posts: 8,102

LOL Mushfiq being Mushfiq
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old September 9, 2017, 10:25 AM
rezwansyed's Avatar
rezwansyed rezwansyed is offline
ODI Cricketer
 
Join Date: November 8, 2008
Location: Sylhet
Favorite Player: Mash Lara Fizz Taskin TI
Posts: 544

Papon is spot on!! Time to shakeup the mindless captaincy...
__________________
Dio is God
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old September 9, 2017, 11:55 AM
5tonne 5tonne is offline
Test Cricketer
 
Join Date: February 26, 2014
Posts: 1,194

Mushy talks a lot and he gives away too much inside information.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old September 9, 2017, 12:10 PM
SportingBD's Avatar
SportingBD SportingBD is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: December 20, 2016
Location: London, UK
Favorite Player: Mohammad Ashraful
Posts: 3,714

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5tonne
Mushy talks a lot and he gives away too much inside information.
This is indeed a good thing, stops us from guessing!

Allows us to know what kind of foolish captain we have.
__________________
The tongue is like a Lion. If you let it loose, it will wound someone - Imam Ali (R.A)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old September 9, 2017, 03:01 PM
al Furqaan's Avatar
al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: February 18, 2004
Location: New York City
Favorite Player: Mominul, Nasir, Taskin
Posts: 23,328

Hathuri needs to be fired.

Instead of spending 8 hours a day coming up with bullshit reasons to drop Mominul, maybe he should give Rahim a defined role in the side. Perhaps he should think if having 5 lefties in a row to face Lyon is a good idea.

Coach is riding the success of the players without whom he'd still be a club coach in Australia.
__________________
Bangladesh: Our Dream, Our Joy, Our Team

#OneTeam1Dream
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old September 11, 2017, 01:39 AM
jeesh jeesh is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: January 4, 2005
Location: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Posts: 3,855

Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Hathuri needs to be fired.

Instead of spending 8 hours a day coming up with bullshit reasons to drop Mominul, maybe he should give Rahim a defined role in the side. Perhaps he should think if having 5 lefties in a row to face Lyon is a good idea.

Coach is riding the success of the players without whom he'd still be a club coach in Australia.
You are far more knowledgeable than that bro. It would be extremely ungrateful to underestimate his role and influence in our progress.

But at the same time i think we need fresh thinking. There are gaps, weaknesses, issues which he hasnt been able to resolve. And now the chemistry in the team isnt all right. When a coach loses the belief of his senior players, its always trouble.

I doubt BCB will go for any change before 2019. But we should keep an eye out. Graham Ford is set to become coach of Ireland. He was someone who could have done a great job here.

Also regarding captain. Time for a change-really. Would have said give the job to Shakib, but that wouldnt send the right signal given he wants a break.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old September 11, 2017, 01:18 PM
Tigers_eye's Avatar
Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
Cricket Savant
 
Join Date: June 30, 2005
Location: Little Rock
Favorite Player: Viv Richards, Steve Waugh
Posts: 30,188

Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Hathuri needs to be fired.

Instead of spending 8 hours a day coming up with bullshit reasons to drop Mominul, maybe he should give Rahim a defined role in the side. Perhaps he should think if having 5 lefties in a row to face Lyon is a good idea.

Coach is riding the success of the players without whom he'd still be a club coach in Australia.
I am a human and not all of my decisions are perfect. Some works, others, not so much. I see no different with Haturi.

But that doesn't diminish his coaching ability.
1) He had pinpointed the most important deficiencies this team had from day 1 and was absolutely correct. Our players lack self belief.

2) You and I can Identify several things in the team but would not be able to fix it. He not only fixed it but made them confident that they can "win". This CANNOT be measured with any UNIT. This effect will be felt long after he is gone. We are no longer the punching bag. We are no longer crawling or walking in evolution stage. We can jog and sometimes we can take long leaps to speed up.

3) One track mind is what most of us have. Only very few possess to change on the fly. Could we have competed better? Yes, of course. But that one track mind of haturi has given us victory against England, Australia, and SL in test. 1st, 1st, and 1st time happened in our history.
Do an analysis on Tamim's performance before and after Haturi. He is no longer pointing fingers 1, 2, 3, and 4 with 50s. The hunger has grown.

++++

I agree we could have had better results, if the coach was a little flexible.

1) Tanbir Leggie, massive fail.
2) Not allowing Litton to be in the team.
3) Not having Nasir for ODIs but selecting him for Test .
4) Not having Mominul play at his natural position.
5) Moving Kayes from his original position #2 just to keep Sarkar in the team. Breaking up the best opening partnership we EVER had.
6) Future BD (Sabbir, Mosaddek) staying in potential rather than performance in test.

Honestly, all this could make us a little better but how much better I am not sure. Could we have won the second test with a new lineup and Mushi captaining? I don't know. Mushi's captaincy call is strictly on the board and not on Haturi.

I am grateful to have haturi and see us getting better every series (baby steps) even with all the short comings.
__________________
The Weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the Strong." - Gandhi.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old September 12, 2017, 12:50 PM
al Furqaan's Avatar
al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: February 18, 2004
Location: New York City
Favorite Player: Mominul, Nasir, Taskin
Posts: 23,328

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
I am a human and not all of my decisions are perfect. Some works, others, not so much. I see no different with Haturi.

But that doesn't diminish his coaching ability.
1) He had pinpointed the most important deficiencies this team had from day 1 and was absolutely correct. Our players lack self belief.

2) You and I can Identify several things in the team but would not be able to fix it. He not only fixed it but made them confident that they can "win". This CANNOT be measured with any UNIT. This effect will be felt long after he is gone. We are no longer the punching bag. We are no longer crawling or walking in evolution stage. We can jog and sometimes we can take long leaps to speed up.

3) One track mind is what most of us have. Only very few possess to change on the fly. Could we have competed better? Yes, of course. But that one track mind of haturi has given us victory against England, Australia, and SL in test. 1st, 1st, and 1st time happened in our history.
Do an analysis on Tamim's performance before and after Haturi. He is no longer pointing fingers 1, 2, 3, and 4 with 50s. The hunger has grown.

++++

I agree we could have had better results, if the coach was a little flexible.

1) Tanbir Leggie, massive fail.
2) Not allowing Litton to be in the team.
3) Not having Nasir for ODIs but selecting him for Test .
4) Not having Mominul play at his natural position.
5) Moving Kayes from his original position #2 just to keep Sarkar in the team. Breaking up the best opening partnership we EVER had.
6) Future BD (Sabbir, Mosaddek) staying in potential rather than performance in test.

Honestly, all this could make us a little better but how much better I am not sure. Could we have won the second test with a new lineup and Mushi captaining? I don't know. Mushi's captaincy call is strictly on the board and not on Haturi.

I am grateful to have haturi and see us getting better every series (baby steps) even with all the short comings.
The coach has outlived his usefulness for our team. What he has accomplished is great, but I think it was inevitable, and thus I am skeptical if he had much to do with it asides from being at the right place at the right time. If he can pull off the same feat with Sri Lanka, perhaps he has that magic ability.

Us winning matches has simply been due to the pitch conditions we've gotten. We now get turning wickets at home. That was a natural progression IMO as we started batting out draws on flat tracks from 2013 - well before Hathuri arrived. The only next step is to make pitches conduvice to winning. We can't make green seamers, so it was dustbowls. Mehedi came in and won us that first Test, and Tamim, Imrul, and Mominul's knocks.

I don't think you need a coach to impress upon Tamim that if he gets a little fitter his game might improve. It might just be maturity.

People loved to give all the credit of 2015 to Heath Streak. He was a good coach, but he didn't take any wickets. Fizz was the biggest reason for 2015 and Anamul Haque Bijoy gets more credit for that than Streak or Hathuri. Taskin has basically been the same bowler he was when he debuted.

I think have a tendency to overstate the importance of coaching. The coaches with the most impact for us, in hindsight, has probably been Whatmore (for giving us the initial self belief back when we sucked), Siddons for his technical work with our batting, and maybe local coaches like Salahuddin sir, etc.

Now the coach is actually harming the side and preventing us from doing better in all the ways you mentioned: forcing Imrul out of his natural position, forcing Mominul out of his natural position then dropping him, ****-talking about Mosaddek, mismanaging Nasir, thinking Sabbir is a top order batsman, there's probably more to add to that list.
__________________
Bangladesh: Our Dream, Our Joy, Our Team

#OneTeam1Dream
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old September 12, 2017, 01:24 PM
Tigers_eye's Avatar
Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
Cricket Savant
 
Join Date: June 30, 2005
Location: Little Rock
Favorite Player: Viv Richards, Steve Waugh
Posts: 30,188

Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
...

Us winning matches has simply been due to the pitch conditions we've gotten. We now get turning wickets at home. That was a natural progression IMO as we started batting out draws on flat tracks from 2013 - well before Hathuri arrived. The only next step is to make pitches conduvice to winning. We can't make green seamers, so it was dustbowls. Mehedi came in and won us that first Test, and Tamim, Imrul, and Mominul's knocks. ....
I am going to be kind and gently say, pitch condition and natural progression CANNOT give you a test win. We had that for the last 5/6 years. There is a significant difference between drawing a test and winning a test among the players mindset. We were already in the backfoot with Mushi's captaincy against England 100+ for no loss in the second innings. It was the coach's roll which was done perfectly to lift up the team at tea break. In one session things changed. Tamim and Shakib stepped up and guided the team. Cannot deny Haturi's contribution in that win. No matter what excuse you bring forth.

National team Coach's job is to make sure the players play the game between the two ears. Maximize their potential. Make game plans and strategies. I think he is doing that pretty well (with few lapses of course). I am not sure, who is out there who is willing to come and do a better job unless you take over.

Winning overseas is not a small achievement. We have done it. Brady can't be the GOAT without Hoody being there. A no-name Michigan backup would never start for an entire season under anyone else.

1) You believed we would draw at SL after the Slan's thrashed Aus 3-0?
2) You believed we would get to semis at the CT? Really? Come on now, be honest. Our group had Host England, Mighty Australia, and redhot NZ. What was your feeling when we got thrashed by NZ B team right before the tournament?

We haven't under achieved. That is my point. Only then you remove a coach.
__________________
The Weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the Strong." - Gandhi.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old September 13, 2017, 03:03 PM
al Furqaan's Avatar
al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: February 18, 2004
Location: New York City
Favorite Player: Mominul, Nasir, Taskin
Posts: 23,328

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Tamim and Shakib stepped up and guided the team. Cannot deny Haturi's contribution in that win. No matter what excuse you bring forth.
Is there any evidence of this actually happening? Or is this fake news? I don't remember if this was ever reported on...senior players often help the captain so thats not exactly revolutionary.

If true its a poor reflection of the coach who knows that his captain is useless and still persists with him.

There have been two more Test wins, and the one vs Australia you can actually say was simply due to Mushfiq's stubborn captaincy where he continuously bowled Shakib and Taijul who took 7 of the last 8 wickets to fall. Maybe that was a fluke. But perhaps so was the England win, because we know that Tamim and Shakib would not make significantly better captains than Mushfiq. Remember they were captains when we lost to Zimbabwe in 2011, a team that hadn't played Tests in 6 years.

Quote:
National team Coach's job is to make sure the players play the game between the two ears. Maximize their potential. Make game plans and strategies. I think he is doing that pretty well (with few lapses of course). I am not sure, who is out there who is willing to come and do a better job unless you take over.
At this point, I wouldn't do any worse. At this level the players coach themselves. There are no complicated schemes to learn, plays to memorize, or defensive coverages to recognize. Cricket is a far simpler game and these guys have been playing from their teenage years.

At this level coaching is about man management. You aren't going to improve Imrul's technique now at age 30. You aren't going to improve Shakib's match awareness at age 30. And even if you can, Hathuri most certainly has NOT.

Man management-wise Hathuru has been a disaster. Just saw this article today and makes my blood boil:

http://www.dhakatribune.com/sport/cr...-south-africa/

Hathuru says to Imrul "don't worry you have 2-3 years of runs, we won't drop you if you fail in 3-4 innings".

Yet when Mominul was dropped he had scores of 5, 7, 12, 27, 23, 64 + 3 years of averaging 50+. Total double standard.

Practice match Imrul didn't score he gets picked, and Mominul who top scored with 73 gets ignored because coach wants batsmen with high strike rate in Tests.

That the team is winning despite a dumbass like that in charge is itself a miracle the likes of which haven't seen since Moses split the Red Sea.

Quote:
Winning overseas is not a small achievement. We have done it. Brady can't be the GOAT without Hoody being there. A no-name Michigan backup would never start for an entire season under anyone else.

1) You believed we would draw at SL after the Slan's thrashed Aus 3-0?
2) You believed we would get to semis at the CT? Really? Come on now, be honest. Our group had Host England, Mighty Australia, and redhot NZ. What was your feeling when we got thrashed by NZ B team right before the tournament?

We haven't under achieved. That is my point. Only then you remove a coach.
Thats not only reason you remove a coach. What if Paterno-Sandusky are/were a great coaches? You mess up, you could and should lose your job.

Hathuru has gotten lucky to be in the same place at the same time. Lets see what he does with SL when he takes that job.

We are winning because senior players are stepping up - they were here long before Hathuru. And because young guys are contributing. Hathuru didn't discover Mustafizz nor Mehedi.

Anamul Haque Bijoy deserves more credit that Huthuru because if it weren't for him, Fizz would never have discovered his cutters and instead of winning series against India and SA, we'd have won the customary 1-2 games and been 9th in the rankings to this day.
__________________
Bangladesh: Our Dream, Our Joy, Our Team

#OneTeam1Dream
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old September 9, 2017, 04:17 PM
Rana Melb Rana Melb is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: March 12, 2014
Posts: 3,601

Is mushi a puppet captain?

http://www.newagebd.net/article/23608/captain-or-puppet
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old September 11, 2017, 06:18 AM
SportingBD's Avatar
SportingBD SportingBD is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: December 20, 2016
Location: London, UK
Favorite Player: Mohammad Ashraful
Posts: 3,714

By this time, I would have expected Mushy to resign.

But he is still holding on to the captaincy duty.

Such a shame.
__________________
The tongue is like a Lion. If you let it loose, it will wound someone - Imam Ali (R.A)
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old September 11, 2017, 09:31 AM
Fazal's Avatar
Fazal Fazal is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: September 16, 2004
Posts: 17,538

If Mushfiq is a pupet captain as some fans (and reporters) claim, the next normal question comes, why didn't he resign (from captaincy) yet? Does that means he have no shame or self respect?

You (some of you) may hate Faruk, and he was far from perfect as chief selector, but at least he had some self respect and resigned in protest.

Whichever way you flip it, Mushfiq is still trun out to be a loser, noway to hide his lack of leadership quality or lack of self dignity.
__________________
"Make Bangladesh Cricket Great Again"
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old September 12, 2017, 04:32 AM
Jadukor's Avatar
Jadukor Jadukor is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: October 17, 2010
Favorite Player: Shakib, Brian Lara
Posts: 11,677

^^You can add Shuvagata Hom somewhere in the list. These are just symptoms and not the disease. All of this indicates that he is undermining the selection committee and the selection process in favor of what he sees in net practice session. This is going to have far reaching negative consequences

The other long term negative consequence that i see is that not a single player improved under Hathuru. Litton had the off side issue, Anamul had the footwork issue none of which were resolved. Perhaps Hathuru can't resolve these but in that case he needs to have a team that could. Jubair was another waste. The most painful one is the case of Soumya and Shabbir. These two are a huge talent but both of their performances are on a decline.

I thank Hathuru for instilling discipline, fitness and professionalism to the side. I thank him for increasing self belief within the team and getting rid of the Diva attitude of certain players that developed under Jurgensen. However, I think it is time we bring in a new coach, somebody who is tactically good but can also improve our players technically. Right now we are riding a wave of success because the Seniors are carrying the load but as Sri Lanka is finding out you need younger generation to pick up the mantle gradually before they retire or else you are screwed. Once Shakib, Tamim and Mushy start to falter, it will leave a huge gap that would be impossible to fill if we don't act now.
__________________
vacant slot
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:07 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
BanglaCricket.com
 

About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Partner Sites | Useful Links | Banners |

© BanglaCricket