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View Poll Results: Should Mushfiqur be stripped of captaincy?
Yes 61 42.07%
No 71 48.97%
Don't know 13 8.97%
Voters: 145. You may not vote on this poll

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  #151  
Old April 3, 2013, 11:09 AM
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shuziburo shuziburo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naimul_Hd
For me, Mushy did two mistakes. One, he opted for 2 pacers on this pitch and he asked SRK to bowl penultimate over. SRK conceded 20, 24 runs in the last 2 overs. Instead of SRK, Mushy should have gone with either Mominul or Nasir, that would have saved at least 10-12 runs.
Saving 10-12 runs would have been enough, I think.

BTW, the two mistakes were match-altering ones. So, they count heavily.
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  #152  
Old April 3, 2013, 11:24 AM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuziburo
Saving 10-12 runs would have been enough, I think.

BTW, the two mistakes were match-altering ones. So, they count heavily.
Dear Suja vai no doubt Mushy is not a good captain. But his man management skill is good and we have no option left.So we need to find out ways to make Mushy better captain. To me making Shakib VC is a very good option.
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  #153  
Old April 3, 2013, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.H.Rubel
Dear Suja vai no doubt Mushy is not a good captain. But his man management skill is good and we have no option left.So we need to find out ways to make Mushy better captain. To me making Shakib VC is a very good option.
1) Will Mushy be willing? 2) Even more important, will Shakib be willing.
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  #154  
Old April 3, 2013, 01:05 PM
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There once was a captain whom I hugely respect. He was not a very good tactician, but was a great leader. In fact, he got his captaincy by kicking out a captain who was a great tactician, but not a good leader.

What did he do after becoming the captain? He consulted with the dethroned captain on all important matters on and off the field. Their alliance was so effective that they won a WC together.

Who were they? Imran Khan and Javed Miandad.

Can Mushfiqur be like Imran Khan in that respect?
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  #155  
Old April 3, 2013, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BD_TigerZ
Why not make him VC instead. It would destroy mushys morales.
Who is Mushys Morales?
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  #156  
Old April 3, 2013, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crikss
But according to Mushy probably, If main bowler who can't stop leaking runs then how can part timers will be able to do so.
If your main bowler is Shahadat and part-time bowlers are Nasir and Mominul, the part-timers almost certainly would yield less in death overs.
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  #157  
Old April 3, 2013, 01:39 PM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuziburo
There once was a captain whom I hugely respect. He was not a very good tactician, but was a great leader. In fact, he got his captaincy by kicking out a captain who was a great tactician, but not a good leader.

What did he do after becoming the captain? He consulted with the dethroned captain on all important matters on and off the field. Their alliance was so effective that they won a WC together.

Who were they? Imran Khan and Javed Miandad.

Can Mushfiqur be like Imran Khan in that respect?
This is a very good point Suja vai. It seems to me we have no other way. Mushy need to get rid of his best friend Riyad. He need to take help from Shakib. Shakib need to help Bangladesh cricket. I hope Mushy-Shakib pair will be the most effective for Bangladesh.
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  #158  
Old April 3, 2013, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roman
Mushy tried his best to end SRK's career..

Jokes apart, he is still the most successful BD captain of all time. How can we forget that he is the only captain in our history to beat SL in SL, had a double century, lead us to series win against WI? His field placement and rotation of bowlers may be questionable but we have to consider that he had very little options. He atleast gave it a shot with our B team
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  #159  
Old April 3, 2013, 05:30 PM
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yeah he's still bring the team together and coming up with better team results than has been rpeviously done so i'd keep him. maybe in the future shakib can take the responsibility of captain again, but at this stage mushy is certainly the best option.
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  #160  
Old April 3, 2013, 06:21 PM
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Before we say fire mushy from captaincy, we have to think who can handle the pressure of captaincy first. We've made Shakib captain when he was in good form and he choked. He got his form back after leaving the captaincy post. We need to train mushy to be a better captain and how to manage his bowlers better. This isn't very difficult area to train - it's where coaches come in.
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  #161  
Old April 3, 2013, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuziburo
There once was a captain whom I hugely respect. He was not a very good tactician, but was a great leader. In fact, he got his captaincy by kicking out a captain who was a great tactician, but not a good leader.

What did he do after becoming the captain? He consulted with the dethroned captain on all important matters on and off the field. Their alliance was so effective that they won a WC together.

Who were they? Imran Khan and Javed Miandad.

Can Mushfiqur be like Imran Khan in that respect?
Come on bhai; they are arch rivals and extremely divisive and that politics still continues. With the change in government, PCB management changes and one of Imran/Miandad lobby gets strong to push in their players and policies .. Pak is f**cked because of their divisive nature.

Imran khan was Imran khan.. And yes, Miandad was honest as a player didn't betray Imran...but doesn't mean that they were great buddies in the team....to put as an example.
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  #162  
Old April 3, 2013, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.H.Rubel
Dear Suja vai no doubt Mushy is not a good captain. But his man management skill is good and we have no option left.So we need to find out ways to make Mushy better captain. To me making Shakib VC is a very good option.
Sometimes, you need to take care of the self respect of the players at that level. Merely proposing Shakib to be VC will turn him off and might make him disgruntled for such demeaning offer. He will feel less appreciated of his capacity..

He can help mushy without being a VC... If you want to take Shakib's input, make him captain. Even thinking him as VC is a sin now.

Make Nasir the VC if u want to remove Riyad, Nasir captained a BPL side and he did it better than Riyad. And Mushy can always walk up to Shakib to take his suggestions on field.
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  #163  
Old April 3, 2013, 08:11 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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what's wrong with shakib being VC? it's true mushy can take shakib's input without him being VC though, and i also think nasir would be a good VC.
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  #164  
Old April 3, 2013, 09:58 PM
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I dont think mushy is a good captain. He is our most technically solid batsman. But captaincy is about bowling changes and field settings. I think even bashar was a better captain than mushy when it comes to using bowlers. He doesnt want to use part timers. But he should use them when part timers are better than the regulars. Captaincy requires creativity, innovation, risk taking abilities and being adventerous. Sadly, Mushy is very one dimensional and textbook type captain. Our team has improved cuz we got rid of deadwoods lile rokibul, kayes, nayeem, etc. players like nasir, anamul, mominul significantly strenghthened our batting department. Its not much credit to mushfiq. He has prevented grouping in team and i see there is unity in the team. But i still think the succes of our recent matches comes from new players like nasir, anamul nd mominul. If mushy cant use the bowlers properly then he should resign. He is the captain and he should talk selectors for selecting better bowlers. He should ask for bowlers like nazmul and mosarrof in the squad.
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  #165  
Old April 4, 2013, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
Come on bhai; they are arch rivals and extremely divisive and that politics still continues. With the change in government, PCB management changes and one of Imran/Miandad lobby gets strong to push in their players and policies .. Pak is f**cked because of their divisive nature.

Imran khan was Imran khan.. And yes, Miandad was honest as a player didn't betray Imran...but doesn't mean that they were great buddies in the team....to put as an example.
Did I say they were buddies? Who cares whether they were buddies? What counted was that they contributed to make PAK a formidable team.

Mushfiqur is a very poor tactician. I don't see him collaborating with players who might be much better. A good captain knows his limitations and finds ways to overcome them. Mushfiqur has not taken steps in the right direction in that regard.
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  #166  
Old April 4, 2013, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuziburo
Did I say they were buddies? Who cares whether they were buddies? What counted was that they contributed to make PAK a formidable team.

Mushfiqur is a very poor tactician. I don't see him collaborating with players who might be much better. A good captain knows his limitations and finds ways to overcome them. Mushfiqur has not taken steps in the right direction in that regard.
He took a team that lost to Zimbabwe and transformed it into a team which drew a series against SL away, beat WI and reached the finals of the Asia Cup, in its last three series'. If that's not overcoming his limitations then I don't know what is. Results-wise what more do you want from Mushy, bearing in mind that his two top players are out so frequently? Who can do a better job in your opinion? Shakib, who with his brilliant tactics regularly conceded massive totals to the opposition and then told his batsmen to be content with scoring 240 in response?
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  #167  
Old April 4, 2013, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equinox
He took a team that lost to Zimbabwe and transformed it into a team which drew a series against SL away, beat WI and reached the finals of the Asia Cup, in its last three series'. If that's not overcoming his limitations then I don't know what is. Results-wise what more do you want from Mushy, bearing in mind that his two top players are out so frequently? Who can do a better job in your opinion? Shakib, who with his brilliant tactics regularly conceded massive totals to the opposition and then told his batsmen to be content with scoring 240 in response?
You misunderstand his point, he is simply stating that more collaboration should be induced between Shakib and Mushfiq in the field as the former has great tactician skills required of a captain and the latter has displayed tremendous leadership skills and rallying our players. Both combined is capable of taking BD to great heights as evident with Pakistan, though I wasn't aware Miandad/Khan relationship was strained but they looked past that and only had their country in mind.

Now I don't how the relationship between Mushy and Shakib is but they can still discuss plans and ideas during the game. Mushfiq does not make the best of decisions and his tactics at times also raises a brow, even the fans can see this, and that is where Shakib could give advice. Credit is due to Mushfiq for taking this team to higher heights since the WC/Zimbabwe debacle but sometimes his decisions hinder our progress and some matches lost can be pointed from an obviously stupid decision made by him. Though I also have wondered why being former captains themselves why Shakib or Mortaza don't also advice Mushy personally.
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  #168  
Old April 4, 2013, 10:24 PM
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I don't get why people don't understand this simple reasoning that we have better players now in Mushfiq's era than we had during shakib's and that is, I would say, the sole difference in performance between now and then. I am not going to undermine mushfiq's contribution however as after being the captain he has stepped up his own game tremendously. And there is no question about the unity he creates among the team members which comes from his natural good guy nature. Yet, on the other hand, his tactics are one of the most terrible i have seen. The best way to define would be "textbook" nature, no innovation, no creativity ( I know I am copying ma o mati lol) or responding to the situation. Let me remind you guys the only two performers back then were Shakib and Tamim and the rest were there to make XI man team. Guys like Kayes, Junaid, Rock, Ashraful, etc made the top order. The team was in a upward curve even before Mushfiq took over (mostly because of Shakib's own contributions alone) barring that Zim tour which called for everybody's head who were in charge. Oh and little bit of stat's digging brought this

Player Span Mat Won Lost Tied NR %
Gazi Ashraf 1986-1990 7 0 7 0 0 0.00
Minhajul Abedin 1990-1990 2 0 2 0 0 0.00
Akram Khan 1995-1998 15 1 14 0 0 6.66
Aminul Islam 1998-2000 16 2 14 0 0 12.50
Naimur Rahman 2000-2001 4 0 4 0 0 0.00
Khaled Mashud 2001-2006 30 4 24 0 2 14.28
Khaled Mahmud 2003-2003 15 0 15 0 0 0.00
Habibul Bashar 2004-2007 69 29 40 0 0 42.02
Rajin Saleh 2004-2004 2 0 2 0 0 0.00
Mohammad Ashraful 2007-2009 38 8 30 0 0 21.05
Shakib Al Hasan 2009-2011 47 22 25 0 0 46.80
Mashrafe Mortaza 2010-2010 7 3 4 0 0 42.85
Mushfiqur Rahim 2011-2013 18 7 10 0 1 41.17

That is only for ODIs as that's is our forte. So yeah Shakib still has the lead. I hope and it will sure be beaten the sooner the better. Statistics wise, Shakib still the best captain we had in our cricketing history and you don't need stats to prove that really. Unless Mushfiq evolves as a captain and fixes his thinking, I would really want him out of office despite liking him and appreciating his hard work.
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  #169  
Old April 4, 2013, 10:30 PM
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Think about it Mahela, Sanga picked up a lot from Arjuna Ranatunga. And Arjuna was probably one of the greatest thinkers in the history of the game. Can him cunning, astute, stubborn, rebellious, maverick. Whatever! His style of captaincy and approach picked up Sri Lanka to new heights. Mahela and Sanga continued which is why they are captaining IPL sides instead of the teams having Indian captains. And Mathews, Chandimal picked up from Mahela and Sanga. And now surprisingly even Mathews is captaining an IPL team.

Lesson here is- Captaincy sounds easy in theory. But a lot has to be picked up with experience. Unfortunately we have never had an Arjuna Ranatunga to pass on lessons or tactics to younger players. Probably our best ever captain was Khaled Mahmud but i doubt he is someone youngsters would ever want to emulate.

Right now Mushfiq is the best person to lead the team. The team seems united, and the "we want to win" attitude is there. It was amazing how he rallied the team in the absence of the superstars. Look at our results-that should be proof enough. Obviously his decision making can improve. But he needs time. Gradually he will pick up. Also having a good coach helps. Right now i doubt we have the right brains in the camp to teach him all these things. This is why getting someone like Streak or Flower to work in the setup is so useful. Former captains passing on tricks of the trade.
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  #170  
Old April 4, 2013, 11:43 PM
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Hey 22yards. I saw that. Stop copying me man. Just kidding..

Captaincy propelled Mushy to become a better and consistent batsman. But he seems clueless when it comes to using bowlers. I dont know if he plays any hand in picking Shahadat but he keeps giving the bowl to shahadat at crucial moments. I dont think he rates Nazmul as a good bowler. He took Nazmul off whenever he got hit for a boundary but persisted with so called speedguns like abul/ rubel/ sahadat even when they were being hit. Yes, mushy doesnt have enough luxury like ponting/imran khan had. But with limited opportunities, i have seen bashar, ashraful and shakib utilizing the bowlers.

Our batting department never looked better. With two players particularly Nasir and Mominul. I see a great future. Nasir is a proven one while mominul still has a lot to prove but he can be our middle order solution. And Ash 2.0 looks better than ever before. Add shakib, mushy and tamim in the mix and we hv a hell of batting line up.

Mashrafee is a fighter. Gazi seems like a good prospect. He and shakib can produce the goods.

Finally, we need to play nazmul. Seriously guyz, its been too long and absurd that he is being sidelined like this. Injuries hasnt been his friend either. But we need nazmul. Because line and length. Imagine mash and naz with their line and length bowling craeting pressure and gettring rid of the top order and letting shak and gazi to do their magic. That will be a good bowling lind up.

Please no more bowlers with high econ rates and who cant bowl maintaing line and length.
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  #171  
Old April 5, 2013, 06:42 AM
Equinox Equinox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22Yards
The team was in a upward curve even before Mushfiq took over (mostly because of Shakib's own contributions alone) barring that Zim tour which called for everybody's head who were in charge.
No it wasn't. Stop inventing stuff. Before the Zim series, we got decimated by Australia at home and then before that there was the WC, the less said about that the better.

Quote:
Oh and little bit of stat's digging brought this

Player Span Mat Won Lost Tied NR %
Gazi Ashraf 1986-1990 7 0 7 0 0 0.00
Minhajul Abedin 1990-1990 2 0 2 0 0 0.00
Akram Khan 1995-1998 15 1 14 0 0 6.66
Aminul Islam 1998-2000 16 2 14 0 0 12.50
Naimur Rahman 2000-2001 4 0 4 0 0 0.00
Khaled Mashud 2001-2006 30 4 24 0 2 14.28
Khaled Mahmud 2003-2003 15 0 15 0 0 0.00
Habibul Bashar 2004-2007 69 29 40 0 0 42.02
Rajin Saleh 2004-2004 2 0 2 0 0 0.00
Mohammad Ashraful 2007-2009 38 8 30 0 0 21.05
Shakib Al Hasan 2009-2011 47 22 25 0 0 46.80
Mashrafe Mortaza 2010-2010 7 3 4 0 0 42.85
Mushfiqur Rahim 2011-2013 18 7 10 0 1 41.17

That is only for ODIs as that's is our forte. So yeah Shakib still has the lead.
How about you take out the wins against the non-G8 teams and that sham of a tour to the Caribbean and see what Shakib's stats as captain look like? Mushfiq has yet to play against any non-G8 teams so far as captain. He has a 41% win rate against G8 teams.
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  #172  
Old April 5, 2013, 07:22 AM
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I am against any knee-jerk captain change. He needs to have better people assisting him in selection and coaching as a captain. May be a month of Steve Waugh should do him a world of good.

That selection of Shahadat and giving him death overs was bad like dropping a game. We don't have too many chances of winning against the #1 side and get loads of points. This was Srilanka's F team with 5 debuts.
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  #173  
Old April 5, 2013, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equinox
...Mushfiq has yet to play against any non-G8 teams so far as captain...
Easy there. 5 new players and you say he didn't play any minnows?
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  #174  
Old April 5, 2013, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Easy there. 5 new players and you say he didn't play any minnows?
I don't know what you're trying to say but the stats above are for ODIs just in case you're talking about the recent T20I. And since you raise that point does Mushy get special consideration for having to captain without Shakib, Tamim, Mashrafe or all of them for most of his tenure so far? FYI, Shakib never won a T20I as captain. Even Ash managed to win a few.
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  #175  
Old April 5, 2013, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22Yards
......
Player Span Mat Won Lost Tied NR %
Gazi Ashraf 1986-1990 7 0 7 0 0 0.00
Minhajul Abedin 1990-1990 2 0 2 0 0 0.00
Akram Khan 1995-1998 15 1 14 0 0 6.66
Aminul Islam 1998-2000 16 2 14 0 0 12.50
Naimur Rahman 2000-2001 4 0 4 0 0 0.00
Khaled Mashud 2001-2006 30 4 24 0 2 14.28
Khaled Mahmud 2003-2003 15 0 15 0 0 0.00
Habibul Bashar 2004-2007 69 29 40 0 0 42.02
Rajin Saleh 2004-2004 2 0 2 0 0 0.00
Mohammad Ashraful 2007-2009 38 8 30 0 0 21.05
Shakib Al Hasan 2009-2011 47 22 25 0 0 46.80
Mashrafe Mortaza 2010-2010 7 3 4 0 0 42.85
Mushfiqur Rahim 2011-2013 18 7 10 0 1 41.17

......
Stats! Sometimes you need to look beyond stats. Out of 47 matches. how many times did Shakib stand against Zim or other lower ranked team? And out of 18 matches how many times Mushy stood against Zim or other lower ranked teams?

I'll tell you the answers. Shakib faced 21 macthes (out of 47) against Zim/Net/Ire. Whereas, all teams did Mushy face were top teams. He did not have a single match against these 3 lower ranked teams.
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