Siddons targets 240 as team total

[BANFAN]

Siddons was also pleased that the team was scoring more than 200 and batting out 50 overs more often than they used to. "We used to score over 200 runs only about 25% of the time, but since I have been here it has gone up to 50%. That is a start. Things are not going to turn around overnight with this team. We have changed the team a fair bit; lots of younger players have come into the side. At the moment, we have the young guys learning the game at the international level and I see some really good performances."

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[nsd3]

I don't see anything wrong in his comments. Was a bit surprised to see no salt added on your post on him BANFAN!! Let's see what happens next in Asia Cup.

[Baundule]

Who will tell this guy that the score is a relative matter? In some matches, 180 is a good score, while in some others 280 is not. BD team think tank terribly misses out the dynamicity in their thinking based on the match condition. With that type of pre-planned target, they will even be more and more static.

Bangladesh certainly can not score 240+ in each match - they do not need to - but not achieveing such target will put more pressure on the players and they will be more and more void of confidence.

Siddons said it was a reality that other teams were better than Bangladesh and his players knew that. "Out there it is a tough game for them with the skill level they have got. Our batsmen average 20; batsmen in other teams average 35. So it's 350 for them versus 200 for us. That is the reality of the situation."

I do not understand what this guy is up to. And what the good comments like this will bring to the team. IMO, it needs to be a great stupid to make comments like that.

[nsd3]

Avoiding facts would not do any good either. What he said are based on facts. To make a dream come reality all need to work based on reality.

[BD-Shardul]

Siddons defended the 'Team Rules' that he drew up for each player and denied they were having an adverse effect on the players' natural game. "When I first came here, everyone was saying to me - you have got to stop Ashraful from playing rash shots all the time. Now that he has stopped playing rash shots, you are telling me to let him play them. So I am not sure what everyone wants. But with Ash batting at three, I think it's perfect. He can play his natural game until we lose two wickets. After that, he has to play a little bit more sensibly."


La jowab.

[Miraz]

Siddons is lying.

Between 1 July 2005 to 18 Jun 2007 (last 2 years under Dav Whatmore).

Out of 48 matches played we scored 200+ in 24 innings and that's exactly 50%, add 9 matches to the list in which we scored less than 200, but won the matches as the opponents scored well below 200.

So, ideally 33 out of 48 innings (68.75%) we either scored 200+ or won the match.

I don't know from where he is getting that 25% info!!! He is probably taking the data of last 10 years into account to make his stats look good. That's simply stupid.

From Statsguru --

View: innings by innings list [change view] Start of match date: between 1 Jul 2005 and 18 Jun 2007 Totals in terms of: batting team Ordered by: start date (ascending)
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Overall figures

	Span	Mat	Won	Lost	Tied	NR	W/L	Ave	RPO	HS	LS
unfiltered	1986-2008	179	39	138	0	2	0.28	21.60	4.08	301	76	Profile
filtered	2005-2007	48	26	22	0	0	1.18	27.30	4.50	301	108

Innings by innings list

Score	Overs	RPO	Target	Inns	Result		Opposition	Ground	Start Date
181/9	50.0	3.62	270	2	lost		v Sri Lanka	Colombo (SSC)	31 Aug 2005	ODI # 2275
220/6	50.0	4.40	296	2	lost		v Sri Lanka	Colombo (RPS)	2 Sep 2005	ODI # 2277
108	38.2	2.81		1	lost		v Sri Lanka	Colombo (RPS)	4 Sep 2005	ODI # 2279
118	35.5	3.29		1	lost		v Sri Lanka	Bogra	20 Feb 2006	ODI # 2334
213/6	47.0	4.53	213	2	won		v Sri Lanka	Bogra	22 Feb 2006	ODI # 2336
231/9	50.0	4.62	310	2	lost		v Sri Lanka	Chittagong (CDS)	25 Feb 2006	ODI # 2338
301/7	50.0	6.02		1	won		v Kenya	Bogra	17 Mar 2006	ODI # 2350
162/1	23.5	6.79	162	2	won		v Kenya	Khulna	20 Mar 2006	ODI # 2353
231	45.5	5.04		1	won		v Kenya	Fatullah	23 Mar 2006	ODI # 2355
237/3	41.3	5.71	233	2	won		v Kenya	Fatullah	25 Mar 2006	ODI # 2356
195	47.0	4.14		1	lost		v Australia	Chittagong (CDS)	23 Apr 2006	ODI # 2365
183	48.0	3.81	251	2	lost		v Australia	Fatullah	26 Apr 2006	ODI # 2366
124	42.3	2.91		1	lost		v Australia	Fatullah	28 Apr 2006	ODI # 2367
246/7	50.0	4.92		1	lost		v Zimbabwe	Harare	29 Jul 2006	ODI # 2392
238/8	50.0	4.76		1	won		v Zimbabwe	Harare	30 Jul 2006	ODI # 2393
236	49.0	4.81		1	lost		v Zimbabwe	Harare	2 Aug 2006	ODI # 2394
206/9	50.0	4.12		1	lost		v Zimbabwe	Harare	4 Aug 2006	ODI # 2395
201/2	44.4	4.50	198	2	won		v Zimbabwe	Harare	6 Aug 2006	ODI # 2398
170/4	30.1	5.63	169	2	won		v Kenya	Nairobi (Gym)	12 Aug 2006	ODI # 2402
185/8	46.0	4.02	185	2	won		v Kenya	Nairobi (Gym)	13 Aug 2006	ODI # 2403
120/4	27.0	4.44	119	2	won		v Kenya	Nairobi (Gym)	15 Aug 2006	ODI # 2404
265/9	50.0	5.30	303	2	lost		v Sri Lanka	Mohali	7 Oct 2006	ODI # 2423
161	46.3	3.46		1	lost		v West Indies	Jaipur	11 Oct 2006	ODI # 2426
231/6	50.0	4.62		1	won		v Zimbabwe	Jaipur	13 Oct 2006	ODI # 2427
186/1	45.3	4.08	185	2	won		v Zimbabwe	Khulna	30 Nov 2006	ODI # 2453
218/4	42.4	5.10	218	2	won		v Zimbabwe	Bogra	3 Dec 2006	ODI # 2457
220	49.2	4.45		1	won		v Zimbabwe	Bogra	5 Dec 2006	ODI # 2459
147/2	32.2	4.54	147	2	won		v Zimbabwe	Dhaka (SBNS)	8 Dec 2006	ODI # 2461
197/7	49.0	4.02	194	2	won		v Zimbabwe	Dhaka (SBNS)	9 Dec 2006	ODI # 2462
154/4	29.1	5.28	154	2	won		v Scotland	Chittagong (CDS)	15 Dec 2006	ODI # 2465
278/6	50.0	5.56		1	won		v Scotland	Dhaka (SBNS)	17 Dec 2006	ODI # 2467
260/9	50.0	5.20		1	won		v Zimbabwe	Harare	4 Feb 2007	ODI # 2505
153	46.0	3.32		1	lost		v Zimbabwe	Harare	6 Feb 2007	ODI # 2511
228/9	50.0	4.56		1	won		v Zimbabwe	Harare	9 Feb 2007	ODI # 2516
246/9	47.2	5.19	245	2	won		v Zimbabwe	Harare	10 Feb 2007	ODI # 2518
206/2	37.3	5.49	206	2	won		v Bermuda	St John's	25 Feb 2007	ODI # 2528
278/5	50.0	5.56		1	won		v Canada	St John's	28 Feb 2007	ODI # 2530
192/5	48.3	3.95	192	2	won		v India	Port of Spain	17 Mar 2007	ODI # 2538
112	37.0	3.02	311	2	lost		v Sri Lanka	Port of Spain	21 Mar 2007	ODI # 2546
96/3	17.3	5.48	96	2	won		v Bermuda	Port of Spain	25 Mar 2007	ODI # 2554
104/6	22.0	4.72		1	lost		v Australia	North Sound	31 Mar 2007	ODI # 2559
174	48.3	3.58		1	lost		v New Zealand	North Sound	2 Apr 2007	ODI # 2561
251/8	50.0	5.02		1	won		v South Africa	Providence	7 Apr 2007	ODI # 2564
143	37.2	3.83		1	lost		v England	Bridgetown	11 Apr 2007	ODI # 2568
169	41.2	4.08	244	2	lost		v Ireland	Bridgetown	15 Apr 2007	ODI # 2572
131	43.5	2.98	231	2	lost		v West Indies	Bridgetown	19 Apr 2007	ODI # 2576
250/7	47.0	5.31		1	lost		v India	Dhaka (SBNS)	10 May 2007	ODI # 2582
238/9	49.0	4.85	285	2	lost		v India	Dhaka (SBNS)	12 May 2007	ODI # 2583

[crikfreak]

Originally Posted by Miraz
Siddons is lying.

Between 1 July 2005 to 18 Jun 2007 (last 2 years under Dav Whatmore).

Out of 48 matches played we scored 200+ in 24 innings and that's exactly 50%, add 9 matches to the list in which we scored less than 200, but won the matches as the opponents scored well below 200.

So, ideally 33 out of 48 innings (68.75%) we either scored 200+ or won the match.

I don't know from where he is getting that 25% info!!! He is probably taking the data of last 10 years into account to make his stats look good. That's simply stupid.

From Statsguru --

just goes to show how wrong that man is.. in most of his interviews.. he's said stuff about our past thats not true.. i wonder why

[rattlehead]

with a few exceptions, most of those 200+ scores arent against the top 8 teams. Siddons is implying scoring 240 against the top 8 teams. He has a pretty good method, at first he talked about scoring 200+, once the team did that..with a lot of effort, he made 220 our target, i think we did that against india in the kitply cup..and now the target is 240. once the team does that, im sure he'll make the targets bigger gradually..and hopefully one day we'll see this team scoring 250+ consistently

[mijanur]

sidons is thinking positive. and crating positive comment. the problem wiv bd players they do not belive in them self. classic example is when new zealand players belived in them self and won the match yesterday. at 1 point there wer 70 for 6 wikets they belived in them self and went up 2 181. and they belived that they wer gonna win and won

[Miraz]

Originally Posted by rattlehead
with a few exceptions, most of those 200+ scores arent against the top 8 teams. Siddons is implying scoring 240 against the top 8 teams. He has a pretty good method, at first he talked about scoring 200+, once the team did that..with a lot of effort, he made 220 our target, i think we did that against india in the kitply cup..and now the target is 240. once the team does that, im sure he'll make the targets bigger gradually..and hopefully one day we'll see this team scoring 250+ consistently

Siddons is taking matches against Ireland into account to claim of achieving 50% mark, so you cannot take matches against Zimbabwe or Kenya out of the equation.

In Siddon's short era, on 38% occasions we managed to get past 200, during Whatmores last 2 years it was 39%, hardly any change in scenario, but the ways we are achieving those 200 marks are hugely different.

Now we are losing matches even before it is started and concentrating on getting 200+ score.

[rattlehead]

yeah we arent playing matches against zim and kenya now are we, if we were, that percentage with shoot up right up to the 80% mark. during whatmore era, it took him four years to change us from loosers to an inconsistent bunch, who won once in a while. Instead of blindly hating, why dont we give siddons one more year and see what he does.
"Now we are losing matches even before it is started and concentrating on getting 200+ score." if concentrating on getting 200+ scores at this level makes the players wet their pants with pressure..then we simply arent good enough to play.
Consistensy is what everyone is looking for, once we get consistent, we'll win matches for sure, and it cannot be done overnight.

[nsd3]

Man, you just saved my time from writing some points to the Cry Babies. Thanks a lot.

Originally Posted by rattlehead
yeah we arent playing matches against zim and kenya now are we, if we were, that percentage with shoot up right up to the 80% mark. during whatmore era, it took him four years to change us from loosers to an inconsistent bunch, who won once in a while. Instead of blindly hating, why dont we give siddons one more year and see what he does.
"Now we are losing matches even before it is started and concentrating on getting 200+ score." if concentrating on getting 200+ scores at this level makes the players wet their pants with pressure..then we simply arent good enough to play.
Consistensy is what everyone is looking for, once we get consistent, we'll win matches for sure, and it cannot be done overnight.

[Miraz]

No one is blindly hating Siddons here.

We won 26 out of 48 matches played in the last two years of Whatmore, that's not inconsistent, fairly consistent performance. It didn't take four years to convert us from loosers to winners, it took just over a year.

During the same period we bagged 5 wins against top eight teams, that's inconsistent, but still big wins.

I want to target consistency and match win within the same period of time. Whatmore managed wins, but failed in consistent performance against top teams. Siddons is failing on both grounds.

Whatmore got a bunch of losers, but Siddons received a bunch of inconsistent winners. Siddons's job should have been easier compared to Whatmore's, but he is making the opposite conversion. He has now converted us again into losers and now he have to re-convert us into winners and only then you can be consistent winners.

I don't see a place of consistent losers in world cricket.

Scoring 200 runs cannot be considered as consistent performance when the opponents are scoring 300+.

[Rabz]

Let him speak.
He suddenly realised his new found love with the microphones.

[rattlehead]

"We won 26 out of 48 matches played in the last two years of Whatmore, that's not inconsistent, fairly consistent performance. It didn't take four years to convert us from loosers to winners, it took just over a year." and most of the matches were against who in the last two years? few wins here and there in two years against the top 8 wont take us anywhere. and we are well past the winning days against zim and kenya.

I do agree our bowling department is failing quite a lot, it used to be our main strength. and thats only because we had m. rafique, rasel and the good ol' mortaza back then. now what do we have, a whole new bunch, rasel will be back after injury, no rafique and mortaza has a potential beer belly, infact he does.

Siddons is a mainly a batting oriented coach, and he is doing his job in his department and also as a head coach. is it his fault he's not getting proper support. whos that fast bowling coach bcb hired again? where the hell is he?

but look on the bright side, if u see any, our batting has improved so much. we no longer have to rely on ashraful all the time. at this level he is having the players to teach basic techniques..come on, what other head coach of the national team of a cricket nation has to do that?

[Baundule]

Miraz bhai, great dig and agree 100% with with your analysis that followed.

He is just putting all our achievement in to garbage and telling the media that we are a piece of **** and every positive thing is his achievement. I am not sure, if JS is targetting the Jatio Sangsad election in December. Everything he says sounds like the voice of of a traditional BD politician. (every failure is up to the past govt, every achievement is a credit of the ruling party.)

[Ishtylish cricketer]

Originally Posted by Baundule
Miraz bhai, great dig and agree 100% with with your analysis that followed.

He is just putting all our achievement in to garbage and telling the media that we are a piece of **** and every positive thing is his achievement. I am not sure, if JS is targetting the Jatio Sangsad election in December. Everything he says sounds like the voice of of a traditional BD politician. (every failure is up to the past govt, every achievement is a credit of the ruling party.)

I think and sincerely hope that he's more worried about the shambolic state of Bd cricket and less about his self promotion. He is not paid to earn to sugar coat things with honey on top. Facts are facts! We don't have the quality to compete consistently against the top 8 because our players are skills-less. JS's trying to put together a game plan that can maximize each players growth as a cricketer which by extension will help the team cause as well. Let's face it, Bd is a laughing stock of world cricket because our players fail to do even the most basic things correctly. Call it mental mistakes, youthful exuberance or lack of applications, our players simply do not bat with a purpose and seem to be preoccupied with entertaining the crowd with fancy shots rather than trying to master the basics. If our players LEARN to play the high percentage/constructive ways, then our rare wins may not be deemed as "flukes", "anomalies" or "miracles" by the cricketing world. Remember the best way to achieve anything is by earning it with labour and intelligence. JS is trying to teach these guys that there is a method to even madness. Scoops and pedals entertain audience but the true recognition of a batsman comes from his conventional cricket shots. I just don't understand the skepticism lot of people have with his method. Winning is a process and our players have to work hard towards it to achieve it. Our neighbouring countries like India and Srilanka used to lose a lot of games in the past however, they've turned it around by developing a good cricketing culture that promoted the propre cricketing skills. I'm hoping BD can one day reach that state through good leadership.

[Miraz]

Originally Posted by Ishtylish cricketer
Bd is a laughing stock of world cricket because our players fail to do even the most basic things.

May be now, although I disagree that we have already hit that low, but defnitely wasn't a laughing stock even one year ago.

Everyone used to praise BD for their exciting cricket, the only criticizing point was the inconsistency, but everyone was very much optimistic about the future.

Things have changed significantly over the last 6-7 months, unfortunately in wrong direction.

The point you are raising about the winning process is defnitely a valid one, but national team is not the place to do the experiment. He should be appointed as the head coach of academy or age group teams.

National team head coach should be someone who can inspire cricketers and bring out the best to overcome their obvious limitations in skills and temperament.

[Pundit]

Being able to score 225 - 250, 70% of the times will indeed be a big positive, against the big teams.

I don't care what our past was, and what he thinks our past was, and what he says our past was.

If we tighten our totals in between that range, and he immdiately gets our bowlers to be worked upon, I think that is the perspective I want to base our success upon.

Some of you may aim higher, and some lower.

[Pundit]

Originally Posted by Miraz
National team head coach should be someone who can inspire cricketers and bring out the best to overcome their obvious limitations in skills and temperament.

So MIraz, how did you figure that out ? How many more coaches do you want to bring in and experiment with, before you truly know what our problems are?

I am reminded of the day after...in 1989 after Ershad was detained..some people were heart broken...were we not doing a bit too much to that poor old man?

Ok, let's bring back Whatmore, and after a year, and after 1 victory, we might want to reconsider the next choice.

But perhaps we have come to a cross-road...we as a team need to finally decide how we want to progress in world cricket....


....oh, before that, we have that other small thing to figure out...what we really mean and consistantly want to define as "progress." Pull out the reserach books, Miraz.

[al Furqaan]

siddons era:

200+ against NZ (once, but had we finished all games it would be 2x)
200+ against PAK 3x
200+ against IND

so out of 13 matches against top 8 sides, we have 6 200+ scores which is 46%. siddons is not using ireland to make his stats look better.

[Miraz]

It's not that JS is the first man who understood our problems, he is the first man who is highlighting the problems to cover-up his failures.

We have our problems and every coach has tried to sort that out in their own ways.

Whatmore succeeded to keep the team morale and self esteem high and that resulted in consistent win against associates, Kenya and Zimbabwe. We used to lose against them regularly before Whatmore took charge.

His inspirational coaching resulted in some big wins, but he failed to bring consistency against top teams. He failed, but he never highlighted the problems to save his back, instead he tried to keep the fighting spirit on to overcome the limitations.

Our main problem is the standard of domestic cricket. We are not supplying enough quality players to the national pipeline. We need someone like Siddons, who is a pure batting coach, in between national team and domestic cricket to help batsmen overcome their skill and technical limitations.

[al Furqaan]

lets give siddons another 6 months with this current tactic...it might work, it might not. at this point, we're lost either way.

much as the whatmore era was good, we won on pure chance (i.e everyone pulling it together to play responsibly once every 6 months or 15 games). we have to start winning more and it can only come with real improvements in mindset, and technique. i was quite upset with JS until a couple of weeks ago. but it seems he has changed at least one thing: big individual innings.

during whatmore era, our biggest individual ODI innings against top 8 sides were:

ash 100 against AUS
ash 94 against ENG
ash 87 against SA
Rajin 82 against IND
Rajin 71 against PAK
SN 75 against AUS
pilot 71 vs AUS
JO 81 vs AUS (or ENG)

in other words we had 6 innings of 70+ runs in aprox 50 games during whatmore era, with half of the innings being eid al ashrafs. the pilot and JO innings were far to slow to warrant any match winning potential, whereas even rajin's 71 was rapid enough to have possibly won a match. thats too much dependence on one player, and that can't be good.

in siddons era, we have 13 matches against top 8 sides:

ash 70 vs NZ
tamim 82 vs SA
sakib 75 vs PAK
sakib 108 vs PAK
Raqib 89 vs IND

we already have 5 70+ inninngs in just 13 matches...JS seems to be working the individual, and thats the only way we can have a decent team. plus ash has only one of those 5 significant innings.

[Rabz]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
lets give siddons another 6 months with this current tactic...it might work, it might not. at this point, we're lost either way..

You might have said that in the beginning, but for me, thats the bottom line.

After all being said and done, i guess we should give him 6 more months.
His initial contract is for 2 years.

If we break it down, i guess he is taking the first year to re-develope the team the way he wants, taking results out of the equation.

If that is the case, i guess the second year should start to produce results at a desired level.

Dav had 4 years with the team. It would be unfortunate to compare JS with Dav at this point.

At least 6 more months i say.

[Miraz]

Al, . why 70? why not 100 or 50?

Let's take how many 50's our top 3 batsmen scored against top 8 teams during Whatmore era ---

Aftab
51 against England
67 against India
59 against West Indies

Ash
66 against Sri Lanka
100 against Australia
94 against England
58 against Australia
51 against Sri Lanka
61 against Sri Lanka
87 against South Africa

Sakib
67 against Sri Lanka
53 against India
50 against India
57 against England

Just three players and we have 14 50+ innings against top teams, if we include all batsmen it would be about 30 to 40 50+ innings.